12/17: Valpo @ Oakland Game Thread

[valpotx]

agibson, the tech on Dority may have been for taunting after a dunk. The one on Buggs was for slapping the basketball after the Oakland player threw the elbow his way. What really didn't make any sense was how the Oakland player commits the offensive foul, Buggs gets the tech, and Oakland gets the ball back after the tech free throws? It also resulted in two points. It was the difference in the halftime score, should have been tied at 32.

If it happened this way, did Bryce contest that they were given the ball?  I only saw the last few minutes of the first half to the end.  If he did not contest, this would be two really bad errors by Bryce in the game, with the other obviously going to a slowdown when we were up by 9 with 4:50 left.  Play your normal offense until the end of the game in this scenario, as we always take time off the clock regardless of milking it.  Only if you get up by 15+ should you run a slowdown to not rub it in, or if you are the underdog and have a 8-10 pt lead...

[milanmiracle]

Hey, if we beat Murray State on the road, then we still come out at the predicted 10-4.  I highly doubt it since they are almost ranked, but maybe we pull one out of our butts 

Since Murray State is what most would consider a good team, Valpo won't win. When you look at the combined record of Valpo's "wins", their record is 15-50 (D1 only). What Valpo has shown so far this year is the ability to schedule and beat craptastic teams. Anybody with talent and a reasonable record is a loss.

[Valpo89]

This was an epic collapse and it was sickening to watch. But how about this stat?
After Ryan Bass fouled out with 6:45 remaining, Oakland was not called for a foul the rest of the game.

[vuchicago]

Anyone understand the Boggs intentional either?
So does Bryce make switches in the starting lineup?

[78crusader]

No offense to Coach Drew or the players, but as I've said previously, this team just_isn't_ that_good. We have some good players, yes. But they don't play well as a team. Sometimes the whole is not equal to the sum of its parts. It happens.

A 17-15 season awaits...perhaps even 16-16...followed by a quick exit in the league tourney.

Paul

[Cliston94]

Epic choke by VU. Up 9 with five minutes left, fail to score again and lose? Against a team that came in 3-7? Pitiful.

It's looking pretty clear that this team not only failed to improve during the offseason, but actually regressed. Obviously, we are only about a third of the way through the season, so there's plenty of time for VU to put things together, but I don't have a lot of confidence in the Crusaders' ability to do so, based on what they've shown me so far. As has been the case so often in the last 15 years, the Crusaders failed to put away a game when it was completely in their grasp. This team in recent years has had a maddening inability to hold onto a lead. Two words: mental toughness. VU doesn't have it and hasn't had it in a long, long time.

[mj]

There is something very wrong with this team. We've seen the same mistakes over and over again, year after year. Different players, same mistakes. At some point in time you have to look at the coaching and wonder what exactly is going on.

[milanmiracle]

No offense to Coach Drew or the players, but as I've said previously, this team just_isn't_ that_good. We have some good players, yes. But they don't play well as a team. Sometimes the whole is not equal to the sum of its parts. It happens.

A 17-15 season awaits...perhaps even 16-16...followed by a quick exit in the league tourney.

Paul

Oh, I won't go that far. The Horizon League is pretty weak overall, and Valpo wouldn't have to beat anybody any good to get to a 20 win season. That doesn't mean they're getting better, just playing teams that are on the same level as they are.

[bbtds]

Oh, I won't go that far. The Horizon League is pretty weak overall, and Valpo wouldn't have to beat anybody any good to get to a 20 win season. That doesn't mean they're getting better, just playing teams that are on the same level as they are.

So in the end the Butler fans were correct. They were the quality of the Horizon League before they left. The Bulldogs don't choke when they play against top teams, they have the better coach and a team that plays well together. Valpo does not have any one of the three mentioned. Without Butler the Horizon is a very average to poor league. Anybody else want to finally agree to the stark reality Valpo fans face? It's not too easy to swallow and the truth does hurt. We are what we are.

Go ahead, vu72. I know you will make the argument that Valpo is not as average as the reality proves them to be. How can Valpo fans face these outcomes, especially this loss to a mediocre Oakland team, thinking they will win the conference and even if they do not be a one and done in the NCAA tournament?

[KL31NY]

I don't like playing Oakland. Lot of heartbreak recently...

[valpopal]

Tough loss to Oakland by 2 points, the same result as exactly one year ago on 12/17/11 when Valpo lost to Oakland by 2 points. Also, Valpo is now 7-4, which is what they were after that Oakland game last year as well. In addition, the comments on the board seem to repeat what were written at that time. Still looking forward to the team gaining momentum as they did last year when conference play began.

So, everything is exactly the same as last year...does that mean Valpo doesn't make the tournament again too?

If the team does everything it did last season and gets to the conference tournament championship, though healthy this time and with a legitimate chance to reverse last year's result, I'll be satisfied.

[EddieCabot]

Tough loss to Oakland by 2 points, the same result as exactly one year ago on 12/17/11 when Valpo lost to Oakland by 2 points. Also, Valpo is now 7-4, which is what they were after that Oakland game last year as well. In addition, the comments on the board seem to repeat what were written at that time. Still looking forward to the team gaining momentum as they did last year when conference play began.

So, everything is exactly the same as last year...does that mean Valpo doesn't make the tournament again too?

If the team does everything it did last season and gets to the conference tournament championship, though healthy this time and with a legitimate chance to reverse last year's result, I'll be satisfied.

That's a good perspective.  As I've said before, Bryce rolled the dice for an at-large bid with a brutal non-conference schedule.  He knew it was a long shot to win on the road against tough teams like Nebraska, SLU and Oakland, but he was willing to take the shot.  A favorable bounce here or there and Valpo would still be in the hunt for an at-large bid.

Things didn't work out, so Valpo merely needs to focus on league games to get a favorable seed for the tournament.  That's now their route to the NCAA tourney.

[justducky]

Lost in all of this despair was maybe 10 minutes of our best basketball of the season, but then somebody woke us up and we returned to our normal level of play.

Lets see; silly fouls, mental mistakes, poor judgements, and poor executions lead to a 2 point loss instead of maybe an 10 point win. 19 turnovers by an experienced senior led team vs 9 for a young Oakland group. I rest my case.

[koala]

Am I the only one that sees how bad the away refs are and that you hardly ever win on the road?   The home town refs will make sure the home team wins and it was so obvious today.      It seems everyone just accepts that this is how it is well I can tell you it does not happen here in Australia.   We have neutral refs that don't favour the home teams and it makes for fair games.   I don't know how many college games I have watched where the home refs are so bad.   We were not that great but we were never going to win this game and the same against New Mexico, how many times did New Mexico go to the line?   Yes we lost but you know what there are more important things going on in the world than losing a basketball game.   Christmas is coming and God bless all the families that lost a child in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings.   Yes we heard about it here and I can tell you all of Australia's hearts go out to everyone involved.   So get a grip people and count your blessings that if all you have to whinge about is a game of basketball then be very thankful.

[oklahomamick]

Not to make excuses but I think playing a game Saturday night 1,000 miles away in another time zone played a role in Monday nights loss. 

[truth219]

Look good teams win on the road agaisnt sub par teams. Detroit lost to cuse by 4....we lost to oakland

[crusadermoe]

I'm usually a bit of a cynic and did warn Oakland would be jacked up.    All I saw was gamecast because WAKE-am link on the web played oldies.  The choke was baffling because their best scorer fouled out at 6 minutes.  With a 7-point lead and better rested players it should have been locked down.
But.....I did see some positives watching the states.     4 in double figures and Capo was a 9-9.    He probably wore down because he was at those numbers early in 2nd half.    If Boggs can step up like he did we have 5 options or at least 4 1/2.   Kenney will get rolling at some point.   Dorrity shot only 4-11 last I looked so once he blends in and gets in game shape, we have a big asset.   
As some have said we have fewer bad losses this year to date.    The missing piece is the good road win at Butler that showed our heart.   I would take Capo and Dorrity over Harris and Edwards, so maybe we turn it up.   Also Van Vijk got rolling too.

[valpopal]

Am I the only one that sees how bad the away refs are and that you hardly ever win on the road?   The home town refs will make sure the home team wins and it was so obvious today.      It seems everyone just accepts that this is how it is well I can tell you it does not happen here in Australia.   We have neutral refs that don't favour the home teams and it makes for fair games.   I don't know how many college games I have watched where the home refs are so bad.   We were not that great but we were never going to win this game and the same against New Mexico, how many times did New Mexico go to the line?   Yes we lost but you know what there are more important things going on in the world than losing a basketball game.   Christmas is coming and God bless all the families that lost a child in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings.   Yes we heard about it here and I can tell you all of Australia's hearts go out to everyone involved.   So get a grip people and count your blessings that if all you have to whinge about is a game of basketball then be very thankful.

Thank you, koala, for your commonsense view putting all in perspective, and also for saying something we were always taught as players not to mention (as Rowdy has also been taught), the officiating sometimes contributes to an outcome. Valpo shot well enough to win, at 51%, outscoring Oakland by 10 points in field goals. The game was lost on free throws and turnovers. Oakland had 15 more free throws, and as valpo89 mentioned, they didn't get called for a foul in almost the final seven minutes of the game. How does that happen, especiallly when a team is scratching to catch up? In addition, while Kevin had to sit much of the first half and fouled out in the second, Oakland's big guy was called for only one foul the whole game. How does someone guarding Kevin and Bobby only get called for one foul, while they get eight? Finally, a number of the turnovers were offensive foul calls that were questionable, as were some of the other calls of intentional or technical fouls, which changed the flow of the game.

I know we are never supposed to blame officiating, and we are supposed to expect it to be uneven on the road, which is one of the unfortunate subjective flaws in basketball, and we have it as an advantage at times on our home court. In addition, coaches repeat that can not be used as an excuse. However, it doesn't hurt to be objective and mention that it was a factor in this game that the team didn't quite overcome.

[bbtds]

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-suffer-another-collapse-against-oakland/article_4f261506-b4be-58cc-b412-67854432b2f1.html

"I'm more worried about Ryan Broekhoff than anything right now," Drew said. "He's in some pain and has a lot of bruises and scratches. I'm more concerned with getting him healthy than anything else.

The Crusaders held a nine-point lead with less than five minutes remaining Monday night before the Grizzlies scored the final 11 points of the game to win 70-68 at the O'rena."

"There were a couple plays that we didn't execute," Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew said of the final five minutes. "Lavonte (Dority) hasn't been in a tight game with us and we're just getting that experience."

The Crusaders had a chance to get the ball back down one after a missed free throw with 9.1 seconds left, but Duke Mondy went one-on-four against the Valparaiso defense and came away with an offensive rebound.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

773 miles.  Plus they flew.  They're 20-something years old.  I think they can take it.


https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=oakland+university&safe=active&client=safari&ie=UTF-8

[milldew72]

Say hello to a 4th place regular season finish in the league and a first round exit in the HL tourney.
This team is really, really bad.
I watch UDM lose to third ranked Syracuse by four. I watch Loyola beat Mississippi State. I watch YSU beat Georgia, and I watch this Valpo team trip over itself time and time again.
This is a really bad basketball team.

[vu72]

OK, I'll take the bait and be prepared to take the responses.  We were awful last night, overall, but did manage a pretty terrific stretch in the second half to go up by 9, only to collapse in the end.  The errors are really getting old and it starts with Erik, who has turned into a non-productive turnover prone liability.

We aren't playing as a team and the turnovers seem to tell me that they just don't know what to expect from their teammates.  You'd think we brought in a whole new bunch when in fact Bobby practiced all last year and the only new guys playing or Jordan and now LaVonte.

Having said all that we still haven't lost at home and two of the four loses have been by a point or two.  We're playing awful and still hanging in there on the road.  Koala is right with the criticism of the refs.  Whats with all the Technicals and intentionals?  Is that some sort of new edict from the NCAA?

I am as disappointed as the next person but to predict a 17-17 season is pretty silly in my estimation.  I fully expect the team to continue to grow together.  If we can stay healthy and do that we will be fine.  Let's see how the rest of the non-conference schedule and first two games of the conference goes before we throw in the towel...

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I wasn't here last year, so could someone who was tell me the general mood on here?  Were people excited at this point last year or was there a lot of whining then too?

In many ways, it seems the only difference between last year's team and this on is, ironically, us--and our expectations.

[agibson]

The choke was baffling because their best scorer fouled out at 6 minutes.

It was Bass that fouled out, not Bader.  7.5 ppg not 19.6.  When the foul out happened I also was confused by the similar names, and breathing a sigh of relief.  Alas, no.

[agibson]

Anyone understand the Boggs intentional either?
So does Bryce make switches in the starting lineup?

On Boggs.  I'm bad at understanding foul calls vs. non-calls, etc.  But, that one looked sort of understandable to me, if I'm remembering the play correctly.  It was some sort of an offensive rebound situation for them, with one of their bigs just in front of the basket surrounded by several of our players.  It looked like someone, likely Boggs, just sort of wrapped their arms around him.  It probably wasn't actually _that_ egregious, but it didn't look like a completely unwarranted call.

I do wonder if we failed to adjust to the officiating.  Once it became clear how that was going to go, should we have been able to adjust and commit fewer fouls?

On the starting lineup.  I wondered that ahead of the Oakland game.  And interesting to see Bryce go with an alternate half-time lineup, for a second game in a row. 

Dority's certainly playing a big role in these games.  But, as Bryce alluded to in the newspaper quotes, is still finding his role.