Rivals list of potential football recruits

[NuPudge]

 I know we are getting some recruits to come to visit our school ( I've seen them) but they are being recruited by other schools in our conference. In IL and IN.

We should not be losing recruits to teams we are playing against every year.. If we cant recruit in our backyard we can not win (hint)...

A bigger question that we need to ask ourselves is, why are we not getting good football recruits. We need to change/review our marketing and approach for recruiting. I have seen this happening for 3 years now. Friends of my saying there are better kid on the team but for whatever the reason are not getting on the field to play then they leave the school.. If this is the case, the problem is coaching and it need to be fixed.. We need kids who are athletic on the field  who has the  speed and strength to compete..  That is what wins.. I am sure recruits are coming to Valpo and looking at the kids we have on the team and wondering why other schools football players are stronger and bigger..

The weight room is not the best, the locker room is poorly done and maintain.. We need to working on a football field house that the kids can take pride in...where is the investment of $$$$

If it wasn't for the football program, we could play in most any other conference.. I believe, the other sports are pretty solid..

[vu72]

I know we are getting some recruits to come to visit our school ( I've seen them) but they are being recruited by other schools in our conference. In IL and IN.

We should not be losing recruits to teams we are playing against every year.. If we cant recruit in our backyard we can not win (hint)...

A bigger question that we need to ask ourselves is, why are we not getting good football recruits. We need to change/review our marketing and approach for recruiting. I have seen this happening for 3 years now. Friends of my saying there are better kid on the team but for whatever the reason are not getting on the field to play then they leave the school.. If this is the case, the problem is coaching and it need to be fixed.. We need kids who are athletic on the field  who has the  speed and strength to compete..   That is what wins.. I am sure recruits are coming to Valpo and looking at the kids we have on the team and wondering why other schools football players are stronger and bigger..

The weight room is not the best, the locker room is poorly done and maintain.. We need to working on a football field house that the kids can take pride in...where is the investment of $$$$

If it wasn't for the football program, we could play in most any other conference.. I believe, the other sports are pretty solid..

[/b]

Sorry, but your post is a little confusing. First you say that we need kids that are fast and strong and then blame the lack of these attributes on the lockerroom?

Then you say "if it wasn't for the football program, we could play in most any other conference..."  Huh?  Football plays in a different conference than all of our other sports. Are you saying that if we had a better football team we would be attractive to other conferences because our other sports are pretty good?  What conference are you thinking about?

[NuPudge]

Sorry I am texting while in class.. Yes if the football program was better we could get invited to a bigger and better conference.  This could also mean more money and more TV appearances.. More enrollment into the school. Better donation from alumi etc.. College sports is a business and Valpo needs to approach it as one..

If we had better weight room and better training area then the players can become faster and stronger and better prepared for when we compete against other.. we want to be physically ready when the season starts..

I could see us joining MVC, northeast conference, Big South conference,  Patriot league, Ohio Valley conference .

[valpotx]

All of those conferences would be a step down for us in all sports except football, outside of the MVC, so it wouldn't happen.

[usc4valpo]

Sorry I am texting while in class.. Yes if the football program was better we could get invited to a bigger and better conference. This could also mean more money and more TV appearances.. More enrollment into the school. Better donation from alumi etc.. College sports is a business and Valpo needs to approach it as one.. If we had better weight room and better training area then the players can become faster and stronger and better prepared for when we compete against other.. we want to be physically ready when the season starts.. I could see us joining MVC, northeast conference, Big South conference, Patriot league, Ohio Valley conference .

Dude, there is no way that Valpo should commit to a stronger football conference.   We would have to offer scholarhips and Valpo is not in a position to do this.  Honestly, I think the administration may be considering bagging football.  They are in a non-scholarship conference running it in a K-Mart manner.  We do not have the facilities, tradition, coaching, financial committment or administrative committment to be competitive at its current state. You are correct their facilities are below par, and it is likely that new programs like Mercer are going to be ahead of the game.

Regarding recruting, I am confused.  Does Valpo offer a potential player an "offer", or does the player commit to pay and play? What does it mean to get an "offer" since there is no monetry value?   Also, can any student althlete come to Valpo to try out for the team, and what are the chances they will make the team?

The listings of these players are confusing.  When interest is listed,  it is possible that a scholarship is included?

[valpotx]

I know that it used to be that just about anyone could tryout, same with baseball.  I don't think they do the tryouts in baseball anymore, as they did away with the JV.  Twenge used the tryouts and JV to get extra people into the program, and several players went from JV to strong varsity contributors because of the opportunity given to them

[NuPudge]

Why is it a problem if Valpo decides to move to offering scholarships? It would show they want to have a FB that compete every year.. How can you ask a kid to come to Valpo and be serious about the FB program and take a chance of getting hurt and not offer them something in return unless I am missing something..

I would rather us cancel the FB program if they don't want to win..

Valpo needs to stop thinking small...

[vu72]

Scholarships are in the eye of the beholder.  If you think the football team all pay 45,000 a year or whatever, you are way off.  93% of Valpo students receive some financial aid and football players are no different.  In the case of scholarship athletes, they receive a sports scholarship and in the case  of basketball it is all inclusive.  In the case of baseball and other sports it may be a partial--say one-quarter. I don't think (valpotx can confirm) that it means the student can't get other aid, grade wise or need based, I don't know.

Let's say the student/football player is a Valedictorian ( about 6% of Valpo students fall into this category) and wants to study engineering at Valpo. Let's add that he is a very well rounded student with multiple interests and is a community leader as well.  The kid gets a Presidential Scholarship (full ride) if he plays football or shuffleboard.

[valpotx]

Yes, we received partial athletic scholarships in baseball with most getting academic as well, don't know of anyone that received a full ride.  I had a mix.

In regards to scholarship football, just beacuse we don't offer scholarships, doesn't mean we aren't serious about football.  It is just too expensive to go scholarship for a school our size, where football won't be a top draw (will always be basketball).  There are plenty of schools that are not scholarship in D-1AA, that are very serious about football.  Besides, most of our players would not be recipients of the football scholarships, as a MUCH different athlete would be targeted.  Do you think players that go 0-11 and 1-10 will be getting D-1AA scholarships?  To my knowledge, hardly any, if any, of our players received athletic scholarship offers, which is why they are at VU for football.

[willy]

Yes, we received partial athletic scholarships in baseball with most getting academic as well, don't know of anyone that received a full ride. I had a mix. In regards to scholarship football, just beacuse we don't offer scholarships, doesn't mean we aren't serious about football. It is just too expensive to go scholarship for a school our size, where football won't be a top draw (will always be basketball). There are plenty of schools that are not scholarship in D-1AA, that are very serious about football. Besides, most of our players would not be recipients of the football scholarships, as a MUCH different athlete would be targeted. Do you think players that go 0-11 and 1-10 will be getting D-1AA scholarships? To my knowledge, hardly any, if any, of our players received athletic scholarship offers, which is why they are at VU for football.

This another example of thinking small again!  Why can't Valpo be good at both? Butler, Dayton and Drake are!  I get tired of hearing that this is only a basketball school.  Valpo will stay this way until its thought process changes.  We are a basketball school because that is what we keep telling ourselves.  Excellence in all endeavors should be the standard.  I know for a fact that many players on Valpos roster had scholarship offers from other schools. They may have been partial scholarships and D2 scholarships but many current players had other offers.

[usc4valpo]

Yes, we received partial athletic scholarships in baseball with most getting academic as well, don't know of anyone that received a full ride. I had a mix. In regards to scholarship football, just beacuse we don't offer scholarships, doesn't mean we aren't serious about football. It is just too expensive to go scholarship for a school our size, where football won't be a top draw (will always be basketball). There are plenty of schools that are not scholarship in D-1AA, that are very serious about football. Besides, most of our players would not be recipients of the football scholarships, as a MUCH different athlete would be targeted. Do you think players that go 0-11 and 1-10 will be getting D-1AA scholarships? To my knowledge, hardly any, if any, of our players received athletic scholarship offers, which is why they are at VU for football.

This another example of thinking small again! Why can't Valpo be good at both? Butler, Dayton and Drake are! I get tired of hearing that this is only a basketball school. Valpo will stay this way until its thought process changes. We are a basketball school because that is what we keep telling ourselves. Excellence in all endeavors should be the standard. I know for a fact that many players on Valpos roster had scholarship offers from other schools. They may have been partial scholarships and D2 scholarships but many current players had other offers.

Dude, Butler, Drake and Dayton at a macro view are basketball schools.  Few really care about their football programs.  I do think Valpo needs to be comitted to football, and they are not.

[valpotx]

It isn't that I was saying we can't be good at basketball and football, just that as usc stated, we will always be looked at as a basketball school in the national eye.  Regardless of how we do in 1-AA non-scholarship football, the general view will be basketball is our sport.  Does the general population know that Butler, Dayton, and Drake are good at football??  Absolutely not, unless they look further into the schools, which rarely happens.  I fully support having a successful football program, but we are a basketball school in the thing that matters, the public/media eye.

[willy]

Yes, we received partial athletic scholarships in baseball with most getting academic as well, don't know of anyone that received a full ride. I had a mix. In regards to scholarship football, just beacuse we don't offer scholarships, doesn't mean we aren't serious about football. It is just too expensive to go scholarship for a school our size, where football won't be a top draw (will always be basketball). There are plenty of schools that are not scholarship in D-1AA, that are very serious about football. Besides, most of our players would not be recipients of the football scholarships, as a MUCH different athlete would be targeted. Do you think players that go 0-11 and 1-10 will be getting D-1AA scholarships? To my knowledge, hardly any, if any, of our players received athletic scholarship offers, which is why they are at VU for football.

This another example of thinking small again! Why can't Valpo be good at both? Butler, Dayton and Drake are! I get tired of hearing that this is only a basketball school. Valpo will stay this way until its thought process changes. We are a basketball school because that is what we keep telling ourselves. Excellence in all endeavors should be the standard. I know for a fact that many players on Valpos roster had scholarship offers from other schools. They may have been partial scholarships and D2 scholarships but many current players had other offers.

Dude, Butler, Drake and Dayton at a macro view are basketball schools. Few really care about their football programs. I do think Valpo needs to be comitted to football, and they are not.

If few people care about teams that are winning PFL championship why comitt to it.

[covufan]

Regarding recruting, I am confused.  Does Valpo offer a potential player an "offer", or does the player commit to pay and play? What does it mean to get an "offer" since there is no monetry value?   Also, can any student althlete come to Valpo to try out for the team, and what are the chances they will make the team?

The listings of these players are confusing.  When interest is listed,  it is possible that a scholarship is included?

I'm guessing here, but I think an "offer" is made by the coaching staff to potential prospects after reviewing the students ability to qualify at VU academically and play for VU.  At this point, the recruit is probably in contact with admissions and financial aid people at VU, to come up with the costs for the recruit/parents.  The recruit will need to sign the NLI, mostly likely weighing all options - other Div I-AA, Div II scholarship, etc.  I think this is why VU and other PFL teams don't release the signing class until deposits are received, since the recruit has many options with pay and play.  I'm sure that the coaching staff would allow try-outs, but the chances that they will have an impact and play are small. 

The listings are confusing, and possibly for the recruits as well.  Much of each recruits 'interested' schools are tabulated during summer camps and other means, and can mean as little as a recruit receiving a letter of interest from a school, and the recruit saying "I'm interested".  You'll also see recruits with 'interested' schools that are obviously out of their league.  Yes, these lists are confusing. 

[usc4valpo]

Yes, we received partial athletic scholarships in baseball with most getting academic as well, don't know of anyone that received a full ride. I had a mix. In regards to scholarship football, just beacuse we don't offer scholarships, doesn't mean we aren't serious about football. It is just too expensive to go scholarship for a school our size, where football won't be a top draw (will always be basketball). There are plenty of schools that are not scholarship in D-1AA, that are very serious about football. Besides, most of our players would not be recipients of the football scholarships, as a MUCH different athlete would be targeted. Do you think players that go 0-11 and 1-10 will be getting D-1AA scholarships? To my knowledge, hardly any, if any, of our players received athletic scholarship offers, which is why they are at VU for football.

This another example of thinking small again! Why can't Valpo be good at both? Butler, Dayton and Drake are! I get tired of hearing that this is only a basketball school. Valpo will stay this way until its thought process changes. We are a basketball school because that is what we keep telling ourselves. Excellence in all endeavors should be the standard. I know for a fact that many players on Valpos roster had scholarship offers from other schools. They may have been partial scholarships and D2 scholarships but many current players had other offers.

Dude, Butler, Drake and Dayton at a macro view are basketball schools. Few really care about their football programs. I do think Valpo needs to be comitted to football, and they are not.

If few people care about teams that are winning PFL championship why comitt to it.

Winning a PFL title is a happy thing, but in reality Valpo has football to bring students to the school and provide it as a feature to their portfolio.  The PFL is a conference for schools who want to focus on the main attraction, which for the most part is basketball.  The PFL could be the worst Div. 1 conference in college football.

Butler, Drake and Dayton could very well go on without football, but they commit to it at a non-scholaship level and have some success.  The problem is that Valpo is not committed to football, may have blinders on with the situation and likely too loyal not to fix the problem.

[VULB#62]

Winning a PFL title is a happy thing, but in reality Valpo has football to bring students to the school and provide it as a feature to their portfolio.  The PFL is a conference for schools who want to focus on the main attraction, which for the most part is basketball.  The PFL could be the worst Div. 1 conference in college football.

Butler, Drake and Dayton could very well go on without football, but they commit to it at a non-scholaship level and have some success.  The problem is that Valpo is not committed to football, may have blinders on with the situation and likely too loyal not to fix the problem.

This issue has been replayed here many times over the past two years once it was apparent that with the abysmal 2010 season results (reconfirmed by 2011 and, now, 2012), it would be hard to dig ourselves out of the hole we've been in for several years. We have all accepted the fact that Valpo is not in FB for the revenue.  As USC says, it's a feature of a well-rounded campus portfolio.  It's a part of our program in much the same way that FB is part of so many D-III programs (the difference being, of course, that all our other sports are D-I).  It's a loss-leader so-to-speak, and on a Saturday afternoon in the Fall a game will currently still attract 1200 or so spectators. 

But I would expand on the definition of a "happy thing" (I like that characterization BTW) by saying that participation in the PFL is a happy thing and occasionally winning it is an even happier thing. Our goal is no different than the other PFL schools.  But as an athletic program we need to have a football program that is able to be play Butler, Drake, USD, and Dayton even up on a year-by-year basis to keep the 'happy' in the experience for all concerned. No need to fantasize about scholarship program upgrades. We don't need that at all.  If we were consistently competitive and allow the players and fans to come away from most games with some sense of accomplishment and pride, that's generally sufficient for the average Valpo fan.  It certainly would be for me.

Said it before:  Great talent makes mediocre coaches look great (check on those 'great' coaches when the well runs dry).  On the other hand, great coaching takes mediocre talent and finds ways to achieve greatness. Mediocre talent coupled with mediocre coaching goes no where.

It disturbs me to hear of more defections and the rumors/statements about still playing younger kids in year four of this program.  The ability to retain talent at whatever level is paramount to building a strong, experienced and deep roster.  Yet again relying on youth is analogous to shoveling sand against the tide.  Fact: 86% of the 2012 two deep were true freshman, RS freshmen and sophomores.  But by my reckoning, the year four 2013 team should, by all rights, reflect a senior/junior dominated two-deep positioned to break out.

It will be interesting to see the Spring team roster as well as the composition of the 2013 recruiting class.  I'm hoping that no starters have Xfered and that we see a number of JCs and Xfers coming into the program in 2013 to give us a leg up on experience, maturity and talent to get us out of the youth-dependent cycle we are in.

[usc4valpo]

62, very well said.

I have to wonder what the retention rates are for non-scholarship football in general.  I would hopefully assume the primary reason these "prospective recruits" go to Valpo or any of the PFL universities is to experience a quality academic education and not to play football.  I think playing football is an experience where you grow and learn people skills, but if the primary decision to go to Valpo is to play football, then the priororites are out of whack.

I would believe there is retention at the other PFL universities that could be traced on players leaving and focusing on academics.  Playing a sport and persuing a study-intensive major takes discipline and time management and has to be a challenge for 18-22 year old adults.  I really respect those that can do both at a successful level.

[VULB#62]

I went to Valpo to combine a good education with the opportunity to continue to play FB.  They went hand-in hand.  If it was just a good education I was after, I would have stayed on the east coast. But then, as an 18 year old, it wasn't just the education -- I wanted to play football.  My son assembled a list of colleges to attend as well 34 years later.  They were all exceptionally good NESCAC D-III colleges in New England (you couldn't go wrong with any choice).  He chose the one with the best athletic fit (soccer) for him.  I mention this because the kids that wind up at PFL schools would go there anyway, because in all likelihood they will qualify regardless.  However, IMO, the kids will refine their selection on the football opportunity. Make no mistake, these kids want to play football first -- they already know that a good education is coming their way.   

Having said that, I do believe that smart kids, as they grow a bit older, will eventually weigh the value of continued football participation versus the demands of the classroom and the value obtained from dedicated study, unfettered by the demands of a winless football program, for their long term future.  A scholarship FB program holds that (the FB scholarship) over a kid's head. At Valpo, they can walk at any time.  That is why the university must make every effort to support a winning program, because without the positive reinforcement that brings, player retention is so much more difficult and building a winning program so problematic.

[VULB#62]

Just checked the FB Twitter site.  There is a lot of chatter and enthusiasm for some of the recruits that have made verbal commitments over this past weekend. By the look of it, the FB staff is getting some of the high profile players on their shopping list.  Butcha nevah know.  Time will tell and we won't know anything for sure until the deposits are in.

[valpotx]

Hopefully they are able to contribute past any stats they put up in HS!  I still think that Hoffman can do well for us if he is given the ability to throw normal passes, rather than the dink and dump crap we do.  This means that we need a receiver who can go vertical like Giancola did for Macchi often.  I think our RB situation can also be set with current players, if it isnt just the draw every time.  How about we try a normal offense, instead of hand-offs 6-7 yds behind the line of scrimmage each time?

[VULB#62]

Seems like everyone, including VU, is doing the same thing offensively -- even the SF 49ers with Kaepernick.

It's the D that needs all the help they can find.

[vu72]

Well, if I counted correctly, Valpo has added 20 recruits just since Jauary 13.  Several are "huge" 

[covufan]

Seems like everyone, including VU, is doing the same thing offensively -- even the SF 49ers with Kaepernick.

It's the D that needs all the help they can find.

Maybe the team name should be "Valparaiso Crusaers" until that D is found?

[VULB#62]

Well, if I counted correctly, Valpo has added 20 recruits just since Jauary 13.  Several are "huge" 

72 -- how'd you get that figure?  Are there names associated with the numbers? 

[covufan]

Well, if I counted correctly, Valpo has added 20 recruits just since Jauary 13.  Several are "huge" 

72 -- how'd you get that figure?  Are there names associated with the numbers? 

I'm not seeing the additions either.  The list that IndyValpo had at the beginning of the thread (early Jan) had 24 recruits.  I now find 25 recruits, with two new additions: James Delacenserie and Robby Mackesey, but both have already committed to Idaho State.  Jack Wrangler is no longer on Valpo's list - not sure why, he doesn't have any offers. 

I hope that retention of the two-deep roster is quite high.  Otherwise, we're in for another long season.