The Definition of Classless

vu72 · January 10, 2013, 08:04:01 PM

Detroit just beat the tar out of YSU, winning by 41. They were up something like 27 at half. Still, Ray Jr led all his teammates playing 30 minutes to score 19. Here's the real dussie. With 8 seconds to go Detroit scores again and Slocum has had enough. Has a few choice words for Ray Sr. and gets the T. Detroit makes 2 to go over 100. If Ray Jr. gets MVP based only on averages without consideration for how many minutes and shots he takes, I'll puke. I hope we beat them like a drum.

wh · January 10, 2013, 08:50:22 PM

Did anyone jam as time expired?

StlVUFan · January 10, 2013, 08:57:51 PM

Ray Jr didn't, he subbed out for good at the 4:38 mark. Of course, the lead had been officially safe for about 10 minutes by then.

Pathfinder · January 10, 2013, 09:04:28 PM

The guy who scored with 8 seconds left was a freshman named Dos Santos, and those were his first ever points not counting a couple against one of their NAIA opponents. In fact, it was the first game the kid has played in against a Division I opponent. You're going to blame Ray McCallum for clearing his bench? You're going to begrudge some 18 year old kid getting fired up and taking the ball to the hoop in his excitement?

That is the definition of classless, alright, but maybe not how you meant it.

LaPorteAveApostle · January 10, 2013, 09:32:33 PM

Quote from: Pathfinder on January 10, 2013, 09:04:28 PMYou're going to blame Ray McCallum for clearing his bench?

Yeah, when it's 15 minutes too late, genius.

vu72 · January 10, 2013, 09:41:00 PM

Quote from: Pathfinder on January 10, 2013, 09:04:28 PM
The guy who scored with 8 seconds left was a freshman named Dos Santos, and those were his first ever points not counting a couple against one of their NAIA opponents. In fact, it was the first game the kid has played in against a Division I opponent. You're going to blame Ray McCallum for clearing his bench? You're going to begrudge some 18 year old kid getting fired up and taking the ball to the hoop in his excitement?

That is the definition of classless, alright, but maybe not how you meant it.

Not the kid genius, the COACH. His "bench" played a total of 19 minutes. Ray Jr played 30. The game was never in doubt, certainly after the first half. Coach Drew would have taken a couple of shot clock violations to end the game. If you watched it, he NEVER called off the dogs. Classless if giving McCalum way to much credit.

LaPorteAveApostle · January 10, 2013, 10:19:04 PM

Don't bother, 72, this is the Titan fan who comes on here to talk about how much better McCallum is than Broekhoff.

Perhaps Ray's defense will be that he really doesn't have a bench to play.

bbtds · January 10, 2013, 10:29:50 PM

Blame the final 2 points on YSU Coach Jerry Slocum who managed to get a technical foul with less than 10 seconds on the clock in a blow out game. If Slocum hadn't of gotten the tech with his own player shooting a free throw Detroit would not have scored over 100.

LaPorteAveApostle · January 10, 2013, 10:53:54 PM

I don't blame Slocum for a thing, except perhaps for not strangling McCallum when he had a clear shot at him.

The game was STATISTICALLY OVER with NINE-FIFTY to play. That is ridiculous. And the bench guys are getting 1, 3, 4 minutes?

(When Bill James says it's statistically over, it's over. His formula has only failed to work once in the history of college basketball.)

To give you an idea of how ridiculous it is for a game to be over with a quarter of it still to be played, Valpo's blowout of Ga-So was over with 9:07 to play. In THAT game, everyone available played, Broekhoff only played 23 min, and Rossi, who got the least of anyone, got 11 (his most to date).

EDIT: OH! And let's not forget the tech on Lippert, and the flagrant elbow Bruinsma threw that the refs missed tonight. What do I think about when I think of Detroit, in five seconds or less? H*R / Cheat Commandos / Blue Laser: I Just Hate You So Much

So Detroit's as shallow as they are classless. Beating them thrice this year is going to be be just as good as doing it to Butler last year.

wh · January 10, 2013, 11:22:04 PM

Quote from: Pathfinder on January 10, 2013, 09:04:28 PM
The guy who scored with 8 seconds left was a freshman named Dos Santos, and those were his first ever points not counting a couple against one of their NAIA opponents. In fact, it was the first game the kid has played in against a Division I opponent. You're going to blame Ray McCallum for clearing his bench? You're going to begrudge some 18 year old kid getting fired up and taking the ball to the hoop in his excitement?

That is the definition of classless, alright, but maybe not how you meant it.

You know, you could actually be a good contributor to this board, if only you could find a way to stop being overly defensive about everything Detroit and its immature shenanigans. You sound like O. J. Simpson's mom, explaining how her precious Orenthal isn't the monster everyone was making him out to be.

valpotx · January 11, 2013, 03:11:19 AM

Ray Sr is definitely just as classless as his POS son. The Drews wouldn't have allowed anyone to take those shots at the end of the game, regardless of someone never playing or not. I remember several times where we were leading by a large margin, and we would run the clock out without a shot with our walk-on having the chance to score. Let's beat the crap out of them, please! I can at least respect the way that Butler plays even with my strong dislike for the school, but I have absolutely no respect for Detroit's basketball team

vu72 · January 11, 2013, 07:17:34 AM

http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/jan/11/we-got-rocked/?newswatch

MattCarter · January 11, 2013, 07:54:35 AM

Quote from: Pathfinder on January 10, 2013, 09:04:28 PMThe guy who scored with 8 seconds left was a freshman named Dos Santos, .

That sounds like a masked wrestler! I wonder if the program lists him as from "Parts Unknown"?

As for the results of this game... does nothing but make them look like jerks (ok bigger jerks) #BeatDetroit

milldew72 · January 11, 2013, 08:53:54 AM

I have a pretty solid hatred for Ray and Ray jr., and with a 35-point lead that late in the game I'd take my starters out, too. But let's remember, we complain on this board quite a bit about Bryce refusing to put the hammer down and salt away the win. And how that philosophy often times leads to the typical "prevent defense" result, pulling defeat from the jaws of victory and losing games they had well in hand.
There's nothing wrong with puttingn the figurative boot on the collective neck to ensure the win.

VULB#62 · January 11, 2013, 09:30:26 AM

Quote from: vu72 on January 11, 2013, 07:17:34 AM
http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/jan/11/we-got-rocked/?newswatch

I clipped this from the article:

"We got rocked tonight."

The game's final minutes devolved into the second quarter of an NBA All-Star game, with Detroit attempting three 3s and multiple dunks. With less than five seconds left, a visibly peeved Slocum voiced his displeasure to McCallum in the closing seconds and was hit with a technical.

It's one thing to pull your starters which I guess McCallum did at a point, but most coaches would have said no threes and show some respect - no dunks.

Conversely, here's McCallum:

"We put 40 [minutes] together tonight," the elder McCallum said. "I think it was a good mindset by us. We have a lot of respect for Youngstown and what Jerry's doing and how he's improved the program. They're a good team. They're still one of the top teams in the league."

Yah, right. Live by the sword die by the sword.

vusupporter · January 11, 2013, 09:35:24 AM

On the flip side, Bobby shot a 3-pointer with a minute left in the last home game against CSU (and made it). What happened? Bryce calls timeout just to sub him out and talk to him about it.

agibson · January 11, 2013, 10:39:05 AM

Quote from: milldew72 on January 11, 2013, 08:53:54 AMBut let's remember, we complain on this board quite a bit about Bryce refusing to put the hammer down and salt away the win.

Yeah, for me this is the dilemma. What's the _correct_ winning margin? Is a 30 point margin OK? A 20 point? When should you take your leading scorers out of the game?

It looks like Detroit did eventually take them out. Calliste came out for good with 8:49 to play. He played 29 minutes for his 27 points. 4 minutes below his season average - so it looks like he got more minutes than usual in the first three quarters, but came out rather early.

McCallum came out for good a bit later... with 4:38 to play. 30 minutes for his 19 points, 5 minutes below his season average.

Should they play _only_ the last guys on their bench? For the last.. quarter? Half?

StlVUFan · January 11, 2013, 11:53:30 AM

Quote from: milldew72 on January 11, 2013, 08:53:54 AM
I have a pretty solid hatred for Ray and Ray jr., and with a 35-point lead that late in the game I'd take my starters out, too. But let's remember, we complain on this board quite a bit about Bryce refusing to put the hammer down and salt away the win. And how that philosophy often times leads to the typical "prevent defense" result, pulling defeat from the jaws of victory and losing games they had well in hand.
There's nothing wrong with puttingn the figurative boot on the collective neck to ensure the win.

As LaPorteAveApostle pointed out, the game was statistically over with almost 10 minutes left to play. I don't expect Ray Sr. to know the formula for this and empty his bench right then and there, but leading by 29 or more points at that point, I would expect him to feel like the game's pretty well in hand.

Valpo reached the same point with about 4:38 to go against CSU. Now, Detroit may have emptied their bench, but that's about the time when Ray Jr subbed out for good. That's waiting way too long. Plus I don't recall Valpo filling up the final 4 minutes with a whole bunch of alley oops. You don't have to do that way in order to keep playing your game. I'm less alarmed at all the 3s, I don't think that's a problem. The iron was unusually kind to Detroit all game long, and there's nothing particularly inflammatory about shooting 3s. It just *feels* inflammatory when they all go in

LaPorteAveApostle · January 11, 2013, 12:45:08 PM

And let's not forget how McCallum handled it after the game, like the Alfred E Newman schmuck he is.

Here's how class handles it: "I would like to apologize to Coach Slocum and YSU for the way the last few minutes played out. We never mean to show anyone up, and while I don't blame my bench for wanting to go play in the time they were given, they were a little overexuberant. Again, I'm sorry that it happened and we respect the game too much to demean it, either in victory or defeat."

Well, he could have said that, but every word would have been a lie through his teeth. But still better than being like "hey, what's the big deal? move on. next topic."

valpotx · January 11, 2013, 02:42:13 PM

There is a huge difference in us playing the 'prevent offense' with a 10-15 point lead and 5-8 minutes left, versus Detroit's much larger lead and still going full throttle. We call for Bryce to step on the opposition's neck when he does the prevent and only a 10 point lead, not when we are up by 20.

HorizonFan · January 11, 2013, 03:19:51 PM

After seeing Vanderbilt come back on Kentucky and St. Mary's come back on Gonzaga last night, I think its fine to keep going a bit, especially with 10 minutes to play. Is it likely that they will come back and be in range to win the game? No. But it is possible. They did seem to pull some starters out before Ray too. I would also argue that a large lead with 10 minutes left is not the same as a lead with 4 minutes left.

LaPorteAveApostle · January 11, 2013, 03:41:17 PM

When a comeback is statistically impossible?

I don't think you understand how safe a statistically insurmountable lead is.

Check that. ~~don't think you~~ know you don't.

Oh know you don't.

wh · January 11, 2013, 06:01:50 PM

UDM 'monitoring the landscape' in conference realignment

http://www.freep.com/article/20130108/SPORTS08/301080105/College-basketball-roundup-Titans-might-be-tempted-to-look-beyond-Horizon

No disrespect intended but Detroit receiving an invitation to join the C7 would require divine intervention.

StlVUFan · January 11, 2013, 06:16:17 PM

Quote from: HorizonFan on January 11, 2013, 03:19:51 PM
After seeing Vanderbilt come back on Kentucky and St. Mary's come back on Gonzaga last night, I think its fine to keep going a bit, especially with 10 minutes to play. Is it likely that they will come back and be in range to win the game? No. But it is possible. They did seem to pull some starters out before Ray too. I would also argue that a large lead with 10 minutes left is not the same as a lead with 4 minutes left.

A 30 point lead with 10 minutes left is not a large lead. It's a humongous lead.

Understand, if the team that's up *wants* to lose, they absolutely can. There's even plenty of time to make it look "good." But assuming they don't want to lose, it is damn near impossible to lose a 30 point lead with 10 minutes to go. It takes too long to score against a team that wants to win for that.

zvillehaze · January 11, 2013, 07:43:58 PM

Quote from: StlVUFan on January 11, 2013, 06:16:17 PMA 30 point lead with 10 minutes left is not a large lead. It's a humongous lead.

Understand, if the team that's up *wants* to lose, they absolutely can. There's even plenty of time to make it look "good." But assuming they don't want to lose, it is damn near impossible to lose a 30 point lead with 10 minutes to go. It takes too long to score against a team that wants to win for that.

I wish you had explained this to me before Butler gave up 23 of the 29 point lead they had against UNC. I guess I was nervous for no reason!