The Definition of Classless

[vu72]

UDM 'monitoring the landscape' in conference realignment

http://www.freep.com/article/20130108/SPORTS08/301080105/College-basketball-roundup-Titans-might-be-tempted-to-look-beyond-Horizon

No disrespect intended but Detroit receiving an invitation to join the C7 would require divine intervention.

I guess as far fetched as it seems on the surface, there may be a fit of sorts for Detroit. Adding Xavier--major market-Cincinatti, Detroit-major market-Detroit and Creighton--major market??, brings the total to 9.  Butler doesn't makes sense simply because it isn't a catholic school. Another midwestern fit might be Loyola which of course adds to the Chicago market and brings the total to 10.  Not a bad conference. None of the group plays D1 scholarship football and in that sense Loyola and Detroit do fit.

So what happens to the rest of the Horizon league in this free for all?  Well, YSU belongs in the MAC, Wright State could join the OVC, CSU could go to the Northeast, UIC, Green Bay and Milwaukee to the Summit, and Valpo? To the Valley.  Weirder things have happened.

[StlVUFan]

A 30 point lead with 10 minutes left is not a large lead.  It's a humongous lead.

Understand, if the team that's up *wants* to lose, they absolutely can.  There's even plenty of time to make it look "good."  But assuming they don't want to lose, it is damn near impossible to lose a 30 point lead with 10 minutes to go.  It takes too long to score against a team that wants to win for that.

I wish you had explained this to me before Butler gave up 23 of the 29 point lead they had against UNC.  I guess I was nervous for no reason! 

Lol, now I remember that game

Actually, a 29 point lead with 11:56 to go is not quite statistically safe.

If you don't wait until possession change, the 15 point lead with 2:11 to go was statistically safe, but when Bullock drained the 3 3 seconds later, it was unsafe again.  Andrew Smith's layup with 1:50 to go made it safe again, but the foul by Smith 7 seconds later followed by an immediate Fromm turnover made it unsafe again when Paige made a layup 3 seconds after that.  Stigall's foul made that a 3pt play.  When Stigall split FTs with 38 seconds to go, it became safe again (10 pt lead), this time finally for good.

So, actually, you didn't sweat for nothing after all.  2 minutes means a world of difference

[zvillehaze]

A 30 point lead with 10 minutes left is not a large lead.  It's a humongous lead.

Understand, if the team that's up *wants* to lose, they absolutely can.  There's even plenty of time to make it look "good."  But assuming they don't want to lose, it is damn near impossible to lose a 30 point lead with 10 minutes to go.  It takes too long to score against a team that wants to win for that.

I wish you had explained this to me before Butler gave up 23 of the 29 point lead they had against UNC.  I guess I was nervous for no reason! 

Lol, now I remember that game

Actually, a 29 point lead with 11:56 to go is not quite statistically safe.

If you don't wait until possession change, the 15 point lead with 2:11 to go was statistically safe, but when Bullock drained the 3 3 seconds later, it was unsafe again.  Andrew Smith's layup with 1:50 to go made it safe again, but the foul by Smith 7 seconds later followed by an immediate Fromm turnover made it unsafe again when Paige made a layup 3 seconds after that.  Stigall's foul made that a 3pt play.  When Stigall split FTs with 38 seconds to go, it became safe again (10 pt lead), this time finally for good.

So, actually, you didn't sweat for nothing after all.  2 minutes means a world of difference

I know that I was very nervous ... thanks for confirming that I was statistically justified.   

[valpotx]

UDM 'monitoring the landscape' in conference realignment

http://www.freep.com/article/20130108/SPORTS08/301080105/College-basketball-roundup-Titans-might-be-tempted-to-look-beyond-Horizon

No disrespect intended but Detroit receiving an invitation to join the C7 would require divine intervention.

I guess as far fetched as it seems on the surface, there may be a fit of sorts for Detroit. Adding Xavier--major market-Cincinatti, Detroit-major market-Detroit and Creighton--major market??, brings the total to 9.  Butler doesn't makes sense simply because it isn't a catholic school. Another midwestern fit might be Loyola which of course adds to the Chicago market and brings the total to 10.  Not a bad conference. None of the group plays D1 scholarship football and in that sense Loyola and Detroit do fit.

So what happens to the rest of the Horizon league in this free for all?  Well, YSU belongs in the MAC, Wright State could join the OVC, CSU could go to the Northeast, UIC, Green Bay and Milwaukee to the Summit, and Valpo? To the Valley.  Weirder things have happened.

Butler makes sense because of their reputation and ability to beat major BCS teams.  I don't think that they are truly seeking a Catholic only league

[HC]

Detroit lost at Cleveland State, fantastic!

[vu72]

I watched all of the Det-CSU game and CSU pretty much dominated the entire game.  Now, we need to put them in their place at their place.  Huge game.  CSU looked entirely different than the team we played.  Either we are really starting to play at the level we all expected or CSU played one hell of a game. In any event, beating CSU by 24 and then them beating Detroit by 12 or 14 may say something about our team or it just as well says a lot about the Horizon and how difficult it is to win on the road.

[HC]

Detroits awful free throw shooting cost them the game. Regardless, they showed they are from invincible.

[bbtds]

Detroits awful free throw shooting cost them the game

Bingo!

13 for 32 from the free throw line. Wow! That's bad!

[vuweathernerd]

Detroits awful free throw shooting cost them the game

Bingo!

13 for 32 from the free throw line. Wow! That's bad!

so that's what i was smelling this afternoon...

[talksalot]

anyway, going back up a few posts... Loyola to the C7?  You're forgetting DePaul is in the mix... and I don't think they need two Chicago Catholic Schools.  Detroit leaving and Oakland coming in... we certainly get the better part of that deal...

[valpotx]

As much as being in Detroit and Chicago help UD and LU, they don't have enough of a winning program to endear themselves to the C7.  Maybe I will be proven wrong, but Depaul would be a much better addition than LU in Chicago, and would jump at the chance to stay with the better basketball teams.  You will see a combination of some sort in Depaul, Creighton, Butler, Dayton, Xavier, St. Louis, or a few other teams, but not UD or LU.

In regards to the Detroit game today, it was very fun to watch the Ray's lose.  Seeing them with their typical whining when things didn't go their way, has me hoping that we go into their place and steal one away by 10+.  If they shoot that poorly from the FT line, they won't stand a chance against anyone.  I think they pissed off the other HL teams in the classless way they beat down YSU.  I don't think Slocumb is a good coach, but he deserved better than what Detroit did.

[valpopal]

Let's not forget Evan Bruinsma in the classless category. During the rout of YSU he threw a flagrant elbow at Damian Eargle, then yesterday with only 7 seconds left in the game he flattened Junior Lomomba to foul out.

[bbtds]

Let's not forget Evan Bruinsma in the classless category. During the rout of YSU he threw a flagrant elbow at Damian Eargle, then yesterday with only 7 seconds left in the game he flattened Junior Lomomba to foul out.

I'd be a little careful about saying that. Remember Evan's sister is playing volleyball for Valpo next year.

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/3803535056097441938/rachel-bruinsma-signs-to-play-volleyball-at-valparaiso-to-become-first-ever-female-muskegon-western-michigan-christian-division-1-commit/

brother Evan Bruinsma is playing basketball at Division 1 University of Detroit Mercy.


http://hssn-media.advance.net/MLive.com/news/43393ab797b1c9c037f02c72db02205e/BRUINSMAS.jpg

By the way, Rachel is the one in this family photo that is wearing a white Detroit Titan t-shirt.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Remember Evan's sister is playing volleyball for Valpo next year.

so tell her not to elbow people on the way to class then.

[Big D]

As much as being in Detroit and Chicago help UD and LU, they don't have enough of a winning program to endear themselves to the C7.  Maybe I will be proven wrong, but Depaul would be a much better addition than LU in Chicago, and would jump at the chance to stay with the better basketball teams. 

You don't seem to get that DePaul is part of the catholic 7 already.   Their addition is not up to debate.  They are one of the 7 schools picking who the final 5 additions will be.  Butler and Xavier have already unofficially been invited.  The final 3 teams are most likely Dayton, St Louis, and Creighton.  There are a few other teams being mentions but those are the teams you hear the most.  The only people that are talking about Loyola and Detroit are fans of Loyola and Detroit.  My Raiders have about as much chance of getting an invite to the Big 10 as those 2 getting an invite to the new Catholic 7 conference.

[wh]

As much as being in Detroit and Chicago help UD and LU, they don't have enough of a winning program to endear themselves to the C7.  Maybe I will be proven wrong, but Depaul would be a much better addition than LU in Chicago, and would jump at the chance to stay with the better basketball teams. 

You don't seem to get that DePaul is part of the catholic 7 already.   Their addition is not up to debate.  They are one of the 7 schools picking who the final 5 additions will be.  Butler and Xavier have already unofficially been invited.  The final 3 teams are most likely Dayton, St Louis, and Creighton.  There are a few other teams being mentions but those are the teams you hear the most.  The only people that are talking about Loyola and Detroit are fans of Loyola and Detroit.  My Raiders have about as much chance of getting an invite to the Big 10 as those 2 getting an invite to the new Catholic 7 conference.

I thought promotions had to be earned, or is that old school thinking replaced by the current entitlement mentality? 

[Big D]

I thought promotions had to be earned, or is that old school thinking replaced by the current entitlement mentality? 

What? 

[wh]

I thought promotions had to be earned, or is that old school thinking replaced by the current entitlement mentality? 

What? 

I'm supporting your comment that no one is talking about Detroit and Loyola moving to the C7 except Detroit and Loyola fans.  The reason no one else is talking about it is because neither school has accomplished anything of note to earn any consideration whatsoever by a higher rated conference - unlike say Valpo did in EARNING an invitation to join the HL or Butler did in EARNING an invitation to join the A-10. And yet, D & L fans think they should be considered for something better just because they're Catholic and located in large cities - never mind that their athletic programs are mediocre, at best.  It's the same entitlement mentality shared by a world of underachievers and "victims" in today's society. 

[Big D]

I'm supporting your comment that no one is talking about Detroit and Loyola moving to the C7 except Detroit and Loyola fans.  The reason no one else is talking about it is because neither school has accomplished anything of note to earn any consideration whatsoever by a higher rated conference - unlike say Valpo did in EARNING an invitation to join the HL or Butler did in EARNING an invitation to join the A-10. And yet, D & L fans think they should be considered for something better just because they're Catholic and located in large cities - never mind that their athletic programs are mediocre, at best.  It's the same entitlement mentality shared by a world of underachievers and "victims" in today's society. 

Unfortunately, that isn't the way it always works.  Do you think the Big 10 is adding Rutgers or Maryland based on what they have done on the football field?  The big conferences are adding teams right now to a large part to gain media markets so they can sign bigger TV contracts.  Even smaller conferences like the HL are looking at teams for other reasons besides "what they have earned."  Evansville is being considered in HL expansion.  If it was based on what they have done on the court, they would not even be in the discussion.  This is their 19th year in the MVC.  They have made it to the dance once in that time frame (1998/99) and they have only had winning records 6 out of those seasons.  There are only 2 reasons they are being considered: their location and they are private.  Unfortuately, the private schools in the HL care much more about maintaining a certain private/public school mix than they do about what those teams have earned on the court.     

[bbtds]

I'm supporting your comment that no one is talking about Detroit and Loyola moving to the C7 except Detroit and Loyola fans.  The reason no one else is talking about it is because neither school has accomplished anything of note to earn any consideration whatsoever by a higher rated conference - unlike say Valpo did in EARNING an invitation to join the HL or Butler did in EARNING an invitation to join the A-10. And yet, D & L fans think they should be considered for something better just because they're Catholic and located in large cities - never mind that their athletic programs are mediocre, at best.  It's the same entitlement mentality shared by a world of underachievers and "victims" in today's society. 

Unfortunately, that isn't the way it always works.  Do you think the Big 10 is adding Rutgers or Maryland based on what they have done on the football field?  The big conferences are adding teams right now to a large part to gain media markets so they can sign bigger TV contracts.  Even smaller conferences like the HL are looking at teams for other reasons besides "what they have earned."  Evansville is being considered in HL expansion.  If it was based on what they have done on the court, they would not even be in the discussion.  This is their 19th year in the MVC.  They have made it to the dance once in that time frame (1998/99) and they have only had winning records 6 out of those seasons.  There are only 2 reasons they are being considered: their location and they are private.  Unfortuately, the private schools in the HL care much more about maintaining a certain private/public school mix than they do about what those teams have earned on the court.     

Evansville also has a long history of being a rival of Valpo in the old Indiana Collegiate Conference (that is also where Valpo had a long history as a rival with Butler). To me that is a very good reason to include Evansville in the HL because it renews an old rivalry for the Crusaders with the Purple Aces that goes back many years. I don't care nearly that much about what their record was in the MVC. I'm not sure if you would understand how deep that rivalry went. Those sleeve uniforms were historic and reminded Valpo fans of their rivlary with those dreaded purple guys from Evansville.

[agibson]

Evansville also has a long history of being a rival of Valpo in the old Indiana Collegiate Conference

3rd most common opponent overall, suggests google?  With Butler number one, of course.  Not sure about number two.

[bbtds]

Evansville also has a long history of being a rival of Valpo in the old Indiana Collegiate Conference

3rd most common opponent overall, suggests google?  With Butler number one, of course.  Not sure about number two.

My guess would be another member of the old ICC, most likely St. Joe of Rensselaer, IN for #2 most common opponent.

[VULB#62]

I'm not sure if you would understand how deep that rivalry went. Those sleeve uniforms were historic and allows reminded Valpo fans of their rivlary with those dreaded purple guys from Evansville.

I can still see Jerry Sloan and Larry Humes playing in the old Hilltop Gym (expanded in 1962) with those sleeve tops.  Damn, they were good.  And so were we, but not good enough.

[agibson]

My guess would be another member of the old ICC, most likely St. Joe of Rensselaer, IN for #2 most common opponent.

Right you are!

Here's a quick riff from the Record Book.  Maybe these are the numbers at the end of last season, and maybe I've made some mistakes, etc..

Valpo's most-played opponents.

36-67 Butler
52-35 St. Joseph's (IN)
17-65 Evansville
29-50 Indiana State
27-37 Western Michigan
28-31 Ball State
34-23 Western Illinois
33-18 Depauw
16-29 UIC
16-26 Green Bay
31-10 Wheaton
3-37 Notre Dame
11-28 Cleveland State
10-28 Loyola (Chicago)
16-20 Eastern Illinois
26-8 Youngstown State
30-3 Chicago State
11-22 Manchester
21-9 UMKC
13-15 Washington (Missouri)
5-21 Marquette
8-18 Saint Viator
12-13 Oral Roberts
10-14 Northern Illinois
2-22 Northern Iowa
12-11 Milwaukee
16-7 Southern Utah

[valpotx]

Whoops, forgot that Depaul was already included, my bad.

Looking at our records against most common foes, one really bites at me...ORU.  We probably won't ever see them again, much like we won't Butler.  I would love to schedule them just to even the record.  Also, I didn't know our record against Evansville was so poor.  Looking at some of these just shows how far we have come as a program in D-1.