The Definition of Classless

[historyman]

I didn't know our record against Evansville was so poor.

You have to remember that when Evansville was in the "college" division of NCAA basketball (basically Div.II before they categorized them in numbered divisions) the Purple Aces competed for the National championship almost every year. Evansville won national championships in the college division in 1959, 1960, 1964 and 1965. Those were the golden years of Evansville basketball.

By the way, did anyone notice that Evansville is 4-1 in the MVC this year and recently beat Wichita State at the Ford Center in downtown Evansville. Colt Ryan had a game high 24 points.

Yep, your right, BigDWSU, Evansville would not be that great of an addition to the Horizon League.

[Big D]

By the way, did anyone notice that Evansville is 4-1 in the MVC this year and recently beat Wichita State at the Ford Center in downtown Evansville. Colt Ryan had a game high 24 points.

Yep, your right, BigDWSU, Evansville would not be that great of an addition to the Horizon League.

I didn't know conference chanpionships were decided the second week of January.  Thanks for the heads up.  I need to buy my NCAA tournament tickets since my Raiders are 4-0 in the HL.   
Seriously though, Evansville hasn't earned their place in HL expansion discussion.  They are having a good first half to this season, but they have not done anything in years.  As I already mentioned they only have 1 trip to the NCAAs and a hand full of winning seasons since they left the HL.  There are several schools the HL is looking at that have much better resumes but will probably get passed over because the 3 private schools in the HL are fixated on adding more private schools.  It will be a shame if we end up passing on a school like Murray State for a school like Evansville just because they are private and had a rivalry with you decades ago. 

[Pathfinder]

On thing Evansville does have is significantly higher per game attendance than any current Horizon team. Murray State would be a great addition but seems unlikely because of football.

[EddieCabot]

Evansville compares very favorably to many current Horizon League programs.  Marty Simmons has the program moving in the right direction, they have a great new downtown arena and are in the process of building a new on-campus practice facility.  As Pathfinder pointed out, they also draw better than current Horizon League schools.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean they would be a great addition.  In the Horizon's official release, they indicated they would be looking to add schools which were "built for at-large" bids.  Evansville, like most of the existing HL programs, isn't quite there yet. 

It would appear the Horizon's goal for expansion is to achieve an upgrade, versus just adding more teams similar to what they already have.

[wh]

Evansville compares very favorably to many current Horizon League programs.  Marty Simmons has the program moving in the right direction, they have a great new downtown arena and are in the process of building a new on-campus practice facility.  As Pathfinder pointed out, they also draw better than current Horizon League schools.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean they would be a great addition.  In the Horizon's official release, they indicated they would be looking to add schools which were "built for at-large" bids.  Evansville, like most of the existing HL programs, isn't quite there yet. 

It would appear the Horizon's goal for expansion is to achieve an upgrade, versus just adding more teams similar to what they already have.

Conversely, Belmont had lower avg. attendance (2012/game) than any HL team last year, even though they were 27-8 and went to the NCAA tournament.  They also closed out the regular season on a 14-game winning streak.  Obviously, the city of Nashville has not embraced their program.  I can't even find a fan message board. 

2012 team-by-team attendance listing:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/e56d5f804b32962ba65bf7d0ae33e5ab/11-12+BB+Attendance.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=e56d5f804b32962ba65bf7d0ae33e5ab

[vu72]

I'm not sure if you would understand how deep that rivalry went. Those sleeve uniforms were historic and allows reminded Valpo fans of their rivlary with those dreaded purple guys from Evansville.

I can still see Jerry Sloan and Larry Humes playing in the old Hilltop Gym (expanded in 1962) with those sleeve tops.  Damn, they were good.  And so were we, but not good enough.

And don't forget the floor length warm-ups Jackets not pants!). They were in a class of their own, including some national championships.

[historyman]

By the way, did anyone notice that Evansville is 4-1 in the MVC this year and recently beat Wichita State at the Ford Center in downtown Evansville. Colt Ryan had a game high 24 points. Yep, your right, BigDWSU, Evansville would not be that great of an addition to the Horizon League.

I didn't know conference chanpionships were decided the second week of January.  Thanks for the heads up.  I need to buy my NCAA tournament tickets since my Raiders are 4-0 in the HL.    Seriously though, Evansville hasn't earned their place in HL expansion discussion.  They are having a good first half to this season, but they have not done anything in years.  As I already mentioned they only have 1 trip to the NCAAs and a hand full of winning seasons since they left the HL.  There are several schools the HL is looking at that have much better resumes but will probably get passed over because the 3 private schools in the HL are fixated on adding more private schools.  It will be a shame if we end up passing on a school like Murray State for a school like Evansville just because they are private and had a rivalry with you decades ago.

Where did I say anything about a conference championship?

We all know that Wright State has benefited greatly from the schedule so far and barely beat Milwaukee at the Nutter Center and Loyola in Chicago. The Raiders could easily be 2-2 in conference.

I also did not say Murray State should be passed on for HL membership just to get Evansville in the HL. Why couldn't both Evansville and Murray State join the Horizon League?

I really think you have a huge chip on your shoulder about the private schools in the Horizon League. The only reason you don't want Evansville in the Horizon League is because they are a private school. Just admit it.

[Big D]

I really think you have a huge chip on your shoulder about the private schools in the Horizon League. The only reason you don't want Evansville in the Horizon League is because they are a private school. Just admit it.

As I have said multiple times, all I care about is that we get the 3 best programs for the HL.  I don't care if they are all private, all public, or a mix.  I want the 3 best teams.
Out of the schools we have a legit shot at, I want 1) Murray State, 2) Belmont, 3) Oakland or Robert Morris.  Two of those four are private.  All of those schools have MUCH MUCH better resumes than Evansville.   Since 2000, Murray State has made it to the NCAA tournament 5 times and advanced to the second round twice.  Belmont also made it to the NCAA tournament 5 times and advanced to the second round twice.  Oakland has made it to the NCAA tournament 3 times.  Robert Morris has made it to the NCAA tournament 2 times.  In that time frame, Evansville has only had 2 winning seasons (and in their best year they only won 17 games).   I don't know why they are even in the discussion compared to the teams they are going up against. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Because no one cares about Robert Morris. It's outside the footprint, and...heck, even Robert Morris doesn't care about Robert Morris (attendance 1441 last year).  Hell, Milwaukee has a team only Paris Gulley's parents could love and they average SIXTY PERCENT MORE than that this year.

Evansville:  over four times RMU (5135).  Matter of fact, they school everyone in the HL in that department.

(Although, BigD, you add your attendance PLUS Robert Morris and you have more than Evansville...)

And Robert Morris has the same amount of Big Dance tickets as Evansville in the last 20 years.  Yeah, they've been good since 2007, but they don't have the history that says they'll stay that way.

[talksalot]

What about the other sports?  I know this is an orange round ball conversation socket... but with 14-15 other sports to consider, the travel to Evansville puts them ahead of Belmont or Murray State for every HL Team, and the new Evansville arena is a nice venue.  I'm not sure Belmont will ever be a big draw in N'ville... they are virtually across the street from Vandy.  I can't help but ponder if Saint Louis is back in the mix; with the passing of Majerus; they may be looking to refocus on the midwest, especially if Butler were to leave the A-17...the Billikens would be a geographic outsider.

[Big D]

Because no one cares about Robert Morris. It's outside the footprint, and...heck, even Robert Morris doesn't care about Robert Morris (attendance 1441 last year).  Hell, Milwaukee has a team only Paris Gulley's parents could love and they average SIXTY PERCENT MORE than that this year.

Evansville:  over four times RMU (5135).  Matter of fact, they school everyone in the HL in that department.

(Although, BigD, you add your attendance PLUS Robert Morris and you have more than Evansville...)

And Robert Morris has the same amount of Big Dance tickets as Evansville in the last 20 years.  Yeah, they've been good since 2007, but they don't have the history that says they'll stay that way.

You sir need to learn how to use mapquest.  Robert Morris is an hour away from YSU, so they are natural travel partners.  The only more perfect travel partners would be Oakland for Detroit.  Evansville is about 5 hours away from the Valpo or 4.5 hours away from WSU.  How exactly are the more in the footprint of the HL than Robert Morris?   Belmont and Murray State are the worst geographic fits for the HL, but they at least bring some name recognition and recent history of NCAA tournament success.
You want to make an argument that Robert Morris has only been good since 2007 so they don't have much history to prove that they can maintain that.  What about Evansville?  They haven't been good for 20 years.  Isn't that enough proof that they are not going to be good?  They have a better average attendance than anyone in the HL.  They spend more on basketball than most teams in the HL.  They have had the recruiting advantage of being able to tell recruits they are in the MVC.  What has any of that done for them?   Why on god's earth would you want to add them to the conference? 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Eh, let me put it this way: I'd rather have them than YSU.

Or WSU for that matter.

What have you done in the last 20 years?  Really lighting the world on fire, aren't you?

Maybe compare your 20-year record with Evansville's and get back to me.

EDIT:  I don't know how good your math department is, so:
since WSU joined the Mid-Con in '91-92
Evansville: 314 wins.  3 NCAAs, 4 other postseason tourneys.
You:  314 wins.  2 NCAAs.

Face it...if you can get an HL invite, who are you to deny Evansville?

[agibson]

It's interesting that we mostly manage to treat each other civilly, but then every once in a while someone sort of unloads on a visitor. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Eh, if you're going to play a road game, you can't expect any love from the home fans, now, can you?

[Big D]

Eh, let me put it this way: I'd rather have them than YSU.

Or WSU for that matter.

What have you done in the last 20 years?  Really lighting the world on fire, aren't you?

Maybe compare your 20-year record with Evansville's and get back to me.

EDIT:  I don't know how good your math department is, so:
since WSU joined the Mid-Con in '91-92
Evansville: 314 wins.  3 NCAAs, 4 other postseason tourneys.
You:  314 wins.  2 NCAAs.

Face it...if you can get an HL invite, who are you to deny Evansville?

You can continue to insult me as much as you like but I think everyone can see that you know you are wrong and are just trying to change the subject.  Answer the question.  WHY SHOULD THE HL ADD EVANSVILLE OVER ANY OF THE FOUR TEAMS I MENTIONED ABOVE? 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I already made the case over RMU, and I made the case over WSU.

You're like a trailer park complaining that a duplex wants to set up next door, and you'd rather have the mobile home community.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

A better question is, why would the duplex want to move from their gated community next to your trailer park?

[vu72]

What Big D may have forgotten (not sure--don't want to insult anybody  ) but the reason Murray and Belmont and Oakland for that matter, have better NCAA/records than Evansville may have much to do with their compitition level.  MSU may want to join the Horizon because they are clearly the top dog in the OVC and would want to step up in league quality.  Evansville may want to join us because playing in the Valley has been very difficult because of the quality of that conference.  Just an observation--who knows.

[Valposter]

What Big D may have forgotten (not sure--don't want to insult anybody ) but the reason Murray and Belmont and Oakland for that matter, have better NCAA/records than Evansville may have much to do with their compitition level. MSU may want to join the Horizon because they are clearly the top dog in the OVC and would want to step up in league quality. Evansville may want to join us because playing in the Valley has been very difficult because of the quality of that conference. Just an observation--who knows.

Very valid observation....very valid point......

[wh]

What It seems that BigD thinks that Apostle is more interested in adding private schools over the best program available, and Apostle feels the same about BigD, favoring publics over best available.  I think you guys got off track somewhere in your perceptions of each other.  What I THINK I'm hearing is you both want exactly the same thing- the best available programs we can add.  Period.  True?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Verily, public or private, nay, I careth not. 

Hm...

Although now that I think about that....a simple dichotomy but one that speaks volumes.

[wh]

Verily, public or private, nay, I careth not. 

Good.  If BigD feels the same, you guys can agree to agree and move on. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

OVER?  WAS IT OVER WHEN THE TITANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?

it can't be over until he admits that Wright State is certainly in no position to cast aspersions on Evansville.  That's what we'll never agree on, apparently...

[LaPorteAveApostle]

everyone can see that you know you are wrong and are just trying to change the subject.  Answer the question.  WHY SHOULD THE HL ADD EVANSVILLE OVER ANY OF THE FOUR TEAMS I MENTIONED ABOVE? 

Well, I'll let Evansville do my talking for me on Saturday, Big D.

[grad66]

I'm not sure if you would understand how deep that rivalry went. Those sleeve uniforms were historic and allows reminded Valpo fans of their rivlary with those dreaded purple guys from Evansville.

I can still see Jerry Sloan and Larry Humes playing in the old Hilltop Gym (expanded in 1962) with those sleeve tops.  Damn, they were good.  And so were we, but not good enough.

Yes, but just a few years later 1966 Valpo did beat then reigning champs Evansville at Hill top gym (packed too).