Do you miss Butler?

[wh]

Since we have a little break in the action, I thought it might be interesting to do a poll:

Butler has been such a big part of the HL discussion since we've been in the league (and well beyond).  Now they're doing their thing in the A-10, and doing it very well. Given that we're well into our first season without them, I'm curious as to what everyone is thinking.  Do you miss having Butler in the league and the huge presence they had?   

All thoughts and opinions from all HL fans welcome and respected...

[KL31NY]

Doesn't matter whether or not they are in the league. I do enjoy talking about them again when the topic pops up, though

[historyman]

No, if the Bulls trade Butler they would get along fine without him.

Oh, do you mean the new computer software tool?
http://manytricks.com/butler/

but·ler  [buht-ler]
noun
1.
the chief male servant of a household, usually in charge of serving food, the care of silverware, etc.
2.
a male servant having charge of the wines and liquors.


For your enjoyment a short news piece from channel 10 in Philadelphia on the Butler at LaSalle game:
http://nbcphiladelphia.csnphilly.com/video_content_type/la-salle-vs-butler-highlights-123

Talk about high school gyms, the Explorers' gym is even worse than the ARC. You could make a lay-up and be out the door and in the bus in 10 seconds.



I think you all know how I truly feel.

[crusaderjoe]

Maybe the better question is whether the Valpo ticket office misses Butler.  Given that they were a guaranteed sellout every time they came to the ARC, I'd say the answer is "yes".

[valpotx]

I miss the crowds that Butler generated for us, as I have been disappointed with our other HL attendance figures, outside of the WSU game the other day.  I also miss adding to our streak against them  .

Also, how weird is it that our average home attendance was 2,803 going into the GB game, and that game's attendance was '2,803' as well?

[EddieCabot]

Also, how weird is it that our average home attendance was 2,803 going into the GB game, and that game's attendance was '2,803' as well?

I've heard people use the term "an average crowd", but that's crazy.   

[talksalot]

Do I miss them?  I think it would be fun to get them on a home and home basis for old times sake.... don't see it happening... until the A17 collapses and they need a new conference.... again.  My hats off to Stevens.  He's got a few more years of consistency to hit the 'Zags level that Mark Few has attained...  gotta admit, the atmosphere in the ARC when THEY came was absolutely electric.... and no hype was needed.  if only we could get that helmet back!

[Pathfinder]

The Horizon is unquestionably not as good a league without Butler, gets less national attention, and every team is deprived of one of its best home draws. I suppose some people may not miss Butler, but I don't see how anyone could suggest that the loss of Butler doesn't hurt the Horizon and, frankly, all of the programs remaining in the Horizon.

[FWalum]

Yes
If we got paired with them in the tourney I like the fact that there should be no fear from our guys in playing them.  We would have the familiarity and confidence to make it an epic game.

[IrishDawg]

First off, I agree with FWalum when he says that there would be no intimidation if any HL team got paired with Butler in the tournament.  I would be very nervous about the pairing, as all HL teams know how to effectively play against the Dawgs.

Secondly, even with a bad Butler team last year, they still were able to outdraw all other HL home games, both in and out of conference except for 2 instances.  One was Milwaukee playing against Wisconsin, and the other was Detroit vs. St. Johns when they had the court dedication to Dick Vitale.  Butler outdrew average crowds by 1.5 to 2 times for all Horizon League teams.  In the year so far since Butler has left the Horizon, crowds are down by about 440 fans across the board, which isn't a lot, but amounts to about a 14% decrease in average attendance from last year.  While I'm sure you don't miss our fans, our players and coaching staff know just how difficult it was to compete in the HL if you watch the postgame presser from last night after the Temple game.  http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/2012-13/videos/20130126-qsh2ftte (It's just over halfway through the video if you want to check it out)

In terms of Butler's attendance, thus far this year they have increased their crowd size on average by 960 fans and have had 2 sellouts thus far and should have 3 more this season.

The biggest thing I miss about the HL is the quality web feed.  Watching the LaSalle game the other night was just awful because of the job their web production team did.

Congrats on your success so far this season and good luck the rest of the way.  If our teams should meet up in the tourney, I know it will be anything but easy.

[vu72]

Of course we miss Butler. I was never very happy with their fans, but they were a long standing (the longest) rival of ours and we were just getting rolling toward evening up the historic score!   

In our case the attendance is a product of the competition. Nonetheless, as the fans are realizing how good we are, the crowds are starting to grow--witness the Wright State game and almost 5000 people.

Butler was a great draw for us because of their national success and ranking, but probably as much because of their physical  location, which allowed many of the Butler faithful to make the drive.

Now, next year I would expect our non-conference schedule to draw much better than this year in that the games won't be against Georgia Southern, Chicago State and IPFW, but rather, St. Louis,  Murray State and New Mexico.

Lastly I'd like to clarify why I'm not a coach.  I watched Butler take apart Temple and the difference between this year's Dawgs and last year's is very impressive. Clearly adding Rotnei and Dunham have totally transformed the team which otherwise is probably about the same as last year's. My hats off to them.  They would be a very tough team to play, but I'd still love a shot! 

[bbtds]

Butler falls to Charlotte 71-67 at Hinkle Fieldhouse. Clarke had 18 points. The most problematic thing for the Bulldogs was that with Andrew "he's no Luck" Smith out they got absolutely no points from their bench.

[HorizonFan]

I

Butler falls to Charlotte 71-67 at Hinkle Fieldhouse. Clarke had 18 points. The most problematic thing for the Bulldogs was that with Andrew "he's no Luck" Smith out they got absolutely no points from their bench.

I find all these threads about Butler quite comical.

[valpotx]

Me too, I laugh every time Butler loses 

[agibson]

Coming back to the title of the thread.  If we manage, this season, to win a game in the Big Dance then I'll probably selfishly manage not to miss Butler.

It would/will be fine to get back to the NCAA tournament.  But, a low seed will be disappointing...

I think I could be satisfied with runs in other post-season tournaments, finishing behind Butler in the conference tourney, until we really had an at-large caliber team. Which having Butler in the conference might help produce.

[vu72]

Coming back to the title of the thread.  If we manage, this season, to win a game in the Big Dance then I'll probably selfishly manage not to miss Butler.

It would/will be fine to get back to the NCAA tournament.  But, a low seed will be disappointing...

I think I could be satisfied with runs in other post-season tournaments, finishing behind Butler in the conference tourney, until we really had an at-large caliber team. Which having Butler in the conference might help produce.

What it would have done is give us two more games against a very good rpi team and thus we would have had to drop two other lower quality rpi teams.  Obviously win, lose or draw our pri would have been higher.  Presuming we make the dance it would have helped seeding.  If we didn't we still wouldn't have been considered for an at large and as a result it really wouldn't have mattered.

[valporun]

If anything, I miss Butler for the Indiana rivalry, but in terms of what they mean to the conference? The conference just needs to have some time to get each team built up to playing better quality basketball in what is now a very wide-open league. Once Valpo's current lineup of seniors  graduates, it's time for the conference to realize that we have to work together to make our collective play better, so that we can all be a stronger conference that doesn't have to be defined by the fact that Butler left, but that we collectively put out a better brand of basketball regionally, that will get some of the top 10 rpi conferences to want to play, to help their abilty to distance their play from the idea that "parity has overtaken the landscape of college basketball". I don't think it is parity that has changed college basketball, as much as the attitude of high school stars coming in and polluting the landscape for one year, then jumping to the NBA.

[valpo84]

Folks -- one and doners have a very negligible effect on the overall college basketball landscape. They are concentrated in the power 6 conference. If you consider that only about 60 players are drafted each year, and of those a portion are foreign players and non-NCAA D1 1 year players, and there are over 4000 players in D1 alone, there are less than 1% of the total college population each year that are affected by this rule. Yet, we (the collective sports industry) spends a hugely disproportionate amount of time talking about that issue. Even among the freshman class (which would be somewhere around 800-1000 players), it's probably less than 5% of all freshman that are affected by the rule.

I miss the Butler rivalry, but they are the ones that continually run from us. ( ). We lived perfectly fine for many years without the rivalry. Would be glad to see one with Northwestern or DePaul, but again they're afraid to play at the ARC.

[atkins]

After the game tonight, the answer is "No."  We'd have lost by 40 if we played Butler instead of Detroit. 

[valpotx]

No, that is just being overly dramatic.  Butler is not Duke or UNC...

[valpo04]

No, that is just being overly dramatic.  Butler is not Duke or UNC...

Speaking of Duke...

[vuweathernerd]

No, that is just being overly dramatic.  Butler is not Duke or UNC...

Speaking of Duke...

them's might be fightin words with govalpogo....

[bbtds]

Butler stays in the game till the end but falls again to the Saint Louis Billikens 65-61.





even the kittens from the Detroit loss are laughing uncontrollably!!!

[wh]

Butler has to be careful or they could find themselves in a somewhat precarious position.  They close out the regular season with 3 difficult games, none of which are sure wins by any means.  Ending the regular season on a 4 game losing streak would cause their RPI and win/loss record to take a nose dive, and give them a bad seed in their tournament.  With the Mountain West ranked as the top RPI conference in D-1 with as many as 4 teams potentially making the tournament, Butler could find itself on the outside looking in.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

We owe a debt of thanks to LVD's old Foreman teammate, Mike McCall, who poured in 18, or 5 more than Rotnei.