WBB - Valpo @ Wright State 1/31/13

[jack]

Should be a good challenge for the ladies to get out of WS with a "W". A reunion of sorts for a lot of the ladies, seeing Freeman again. I doubt there is much insight Freeman can give his squad about us that will be helpful, moreso then just watching film, since we aren't anything like we were last season.
WS is a lot like us in that, the scoring can come from anywhere. We have to knock down our shots, and limit their second chance points to be sucessful tonight. Demmings is probably one of the fastest guards in the league right now, so it will be key to slow her down, and don't give up a lot of fast break points. We have some speed. Dorow needs to keep fresh legs in tonight to keep up on "D".
Rebounds, and free throws will be huge tonight.
Good luck ladies. Bring home another road "W".

[valpotx]

It seems like this year the standings are very compact.  Everyone but GB has pretty much the same conference record so far.  A win here would put us in good position heading into the rest of the schedule

[jack]

1st half wrapping up. Worse display of basketball I've seen from this team yet this season. Lazy passing, poor shot selection, and a horendous job of blocking out. Unless they get their heads out of their collective a$$es, this one will be over quick, followed by a long bus ride home.

[jack]

More of the same. Sloppy passing. unexcusable. Highschool passing won't work at this level. We had it going, and ready to cut it to 3, and Richardson makes a sloppy pass inside that gets stolen, they go the other way, score and a foul. Up 8. We didn't come to play tonight. Period.

[VULB#62]

Can someone who is clued into "modern basketball" explain to an oldie who played basketball a few decades ago the answer to the following:

When I was playing, we were drilled to NEVER EVER give up the baseline.  We were coached to always funnel our opponent back into areas where help was available.  The baseline was never considered a helper, because it was too easy to get by (that is, unless the defender's lead foot was on it) and once by the defender the offensive player had more options close to the basket to use.  Yet, I see, over and over, in this game against WSU and continually in the men's games, Valpo defenders giving up the base line in their positioning before the opponent even makes a move, and thus allowing an uncontested drive toward the basket and either a bunny or a simple layoff for an easy score when a central defender is forced to come down to the driver.  I can't tell you how many times over 3 years of varsity ball that I got pulled for the terrible infraction of giving up the baseline.  But in today's game, the defender seems to always set him/herself in a position to invite the baseline drive.  End result -- usually a score.

[jack]

Those of you who have questioned my concern with this coaching staff's decissions will hopefully see why after this game. Down 1 with 6.3 seconds to go, and we dribble it up and throw up a prayer to lose the game. Ya think a time out to set up a play would've been in order?? OMG. Unbelievable. We battle all the way back, to let a lapse in judgement on the sidelines to take us out of a chance to win this thing. I feel for the ladies. They played hard.

[valporun]

jack, I watched the post game talk with WSU coach, and he didn't want his girls fouling in the closing minute because they had no fouls to give, and we could hit the free throws, so I'm thinking the lack of timeout called was a good move because expecting to draw a foul might have led to us turning the ball over.

In terms of the giving up the baseline issue, that's a fundamental defensive issue that isn't taught because the kids are too engrained to the AAU style of basketball, which is all about isolated offensive ability. High school coaches have a hard time coaching it because too many kids are stuck on the AAU style, and it's hard to break bad habits without benching the top players for long periods of game time.

[vuweathernerd]

Those of you who have questioned my concern with this coaching staff's decissions will hopefully see why after this game. Down 1 with 6.3 seconds to go, and we dribble it up and throw up a prayer to lose the game. Ya think a time out to set up a play would've been in order?? OMG. Unbelievable. We battle all the way back, to let a lapse in judgement on the sidelines to take us out of a chance to win this thing. I feel for the ladies. They played hard.

Careful - you might end up feeling the wrath of the coach dorow fan club...

[KL31NY]

WSU's Kim Demmings reached 1000 career points tonight. 2nd-ever Raider to reach as a sophomore. It was painful watching the sections that I did. I checked off and on during the first half, cringed at times at our play on the defensive end, wasn't as bad for me offensively since I thought we had some decent looks but just didn't get enough to go down. We haven't had a lot of good games at the Nutter Center recently, so it was interesting that we came back and nearly won it.

Couldn't stand the WSU announcing at all. Muted it even before tipoff, could barely take it listening to the highlights on WSU's website which were not that impressive anyway. Pretty sure the announcer missed Demmings reaching that milestone or that the highlight got cut before the announcer acknowledged it. Maybe tonight or tomorrow I can watch a better reel or maybe the archive on HLN soon.

[FWalum]

Can someone who is clued into "modern basketball" explain to an oldie who played basketball a few decades ago the answer to the following:

When I was playing, we were drilled to NEVER EVER give up the baseline.  We were coached to always funnel our opponent back into areas where help was available.  The baseline was never considered a helper, because it was too easy to get by (that is, unless the defender's lead foot was on it) and once by the defender the offensive player had more options close to the basket to use.  Yet, I see, over and over, in this game against WSU and continually in the men's games, Valpo defenders giving up the base line in their positioning before the opponent even makes a move, and thus allowing an uncontested drive toward the basket and either a bunny or a simple layoff for an easy score when a central defender is forced to come down to the driver.  I can't tell you how many times over 3 years of varsity ball that I got pulled for the terrible infraction of giving up the baseline.  But in today's game, the defender seems to always set him/herself in a position to invite the baseline drive.  End result -- usually a score.

This article is pretty good at explaining what the current philosophy is concerning funneling the ball towards the baseline. http://betterbasketballtribe.com/youth-coaching/10-reasons-why-wing-defenders-should-force-drives-to-the-baseline/

[jack]

jack, I watched the post game talk with WSU coach, and he didn't want his girls fouling in the closing minute because they had no fouls to give, and we could hit the free throws, so I'm thinking the lack of timeout called was a good move because expecting to draw a foul might have led to us turning the ball over.

In terms of the giving up the baseline issue, that's a fundamental defensive issue that isn't taught because the kids are too engrained to the AAU style of basketball, which is all about isolated offensive ability. High school coaches have a hard time coaching it because too many kids are stuck on the AAU style, and it's hard to break bad habits without benching the top players for long periods of game time.

I disagree. It wasn't about trying to draw a foul. It was a terrible move to not call a time out. There was enough time to set up a play. We could have gotten the ball inside to Tabby, who was having her way underneath all night long. Taking an off balance desperation 18 ft shot was definitely not our best option. Decisions like those will keep us at the bottom of the pack in the HL league. JMO.

[VULB#62]

Can someone who is clued into "modern basketball" explain to an oldie who played basketball a few decades ago the answer to the following:

When I was playing, we were drilled to NEVER EVER give up the baseline.  We were coached to always funnel our opponent back into areas where help was available.  The baseline was never considered a helper, because it was too easy to get by (that is, unless the defender's lead foot was on it) and once by the defender the offensive player had more options close to the basket to use.  Yet, I see, over and over, in this game against WSU and continually in the men's games, Valpo defenders giving up the base line in their positioning before the opponent even makes a move, and thus allowing an uncontested drive toward the basket and either a bunny or a simple layoff for an easy score when a central defender is forced to come down to the driver.  I can't tell you how many times over 3 years of varsity ball that I got pulled for the terrible infraction of giving up the baseline.  But in today's game, the defender seems to always set him/herself in a position to invite the baseline drive.  End result -- usually a score.

This article is pretty good at explaining what the current philosophy is concerning funneling the ball towards the baseline. http://betterbasketballtribe.com/youth-coaching/10-reasons-why-wing-defenders-should-force-drives-to-the-baseline/

Thanks for the article FW.  I have no problem with the philosophy as described; it's the execution that bugs me.   Going back to what I said above, we were taught not give up the baseline and use it to hem in an opponent (i.e., use the baseline as the 6th defender as the article says).  But we caught hell if we were late into position or not tight enough to the baseline and allowed the opponent to drive around us at the baseline toward the basket.  Didn't mean to imply that we did a bullfighter pass to the middle, but if the ball handler was going to go somewhere it was going to be where I had a teammate, who expected the move, in a position to help.  What I have been observing is that most defenders are late to establish position or too often permit too much freedom to drive the base line. A successful baseline drive then forces a central defender to leave his man too late and opens up an in-close dish off to the central defender's man. Of course all of this (execution) is dependent on a team concept defense where each defender knows and understands what each of his teammates is responsible for and the techniques that will be used. If a deny-the-baseline technique is employed there are certain techniques, expectations and rotations that are supposed to come into play for all five defenders; when the deny-the-baseline is defeated it screws up the defense and leads to those easy baskets. Remember, this is coming from the guy that is always complaining about defense in the football posts.   Just my     

[SadersofthelostArc]

I am VERY torn about how to feel about last night's game.  On the one hand, Dorow called a great game (despite the naysayers...er...naysayer).  Run was right on the money...WSU was in foul trouble, the idea was to try and force the foul and not allow them to get set up.  Didn't work, but the strategy was not bad.  Win some and lose some.  Would I have liked to have seen a timeout?  Perhaps, and Coach will learn from this and get better.

The flipside is though, we saw a WSU team that is directly benefitting from Keith's wisdom and expertise.  You can credit him with the win as you saw HIS philosophy and HIS strategy playing out.  Without ol' wrench in the gears Kirby around, Keith has regained his mojo.  It will be less than two years before he is the head coach there.

Happy for Keith, sad for Tracy....conflicted.

[KL31NY]

Just got a chance to watch the end of the game for myself. Those final seconds where horrible. Gave up an extremely easy drive to Demmings, who you know is going to be the player they want to take the last shot. jack and run present sound reasoning for their arguments to handle the end of the game, and I would go with jack this time and almost any time for that matter. Hindsight being 20:20, I would have been happier calling a timeout to set something up. We ended up with Scott, our worst free throw shooter on the floor, trying to get to the line against Demmings who stood her ground and forced a tough shot.

Again, I didn't watch the end live so my analysis isn't the same as would be if it were the case. Just seeing the final bits this morning and taking the comments already here, my personal conclusion is that I would feel much more confident in a late game situation to manage a little more. Bradbury, as I much I hate to admit it because of the Frank Martin-esque sideshow that he is, did that well and got his team in a spot to win it at the end.

[KL31NY]

Saturday: OVERTIME WIN VS CLEVELAND STATE! Despite blowing a 16-2 lead, Valpo tied it up late as Lange scored a layup in the closing second to make it 75-all! She and Gerardot put the team on their backs doe (for Madden lol) to win it 92-84.

Tab: Best double-double of her career- 32 points, personal-high 19 rebounds
Gina: Career-high 24 points, playing with four fouls during most of the end

[jack]

We certainly needed the W. Probably worked way harder for it then we needed to. Our intensity came in spurts today. I'd love to see what we can do with the intensity for 40 minutes. It also appeared that Dorow learned something from the last game. The time out with 2.2 left allowed us to regroup and set up a play to get us to O.T. Whether the way it went down was as planned or not, we still got to calm down, and CS had to think about it more. We caught them over thinking the inbound. I can't say enough about Tabby and Gina's play today. They hammered on while the rest of the team struggled. They both had the eye of the tiger, refuse to lose atitude. The rest of the squad owes them big for this one.
Good win ladies! 

[FWalum]

That Fort Wayne Gal sure can play! 

[SadersofthelostArc]

Saturday: OVERTIME WIN VS CLEVELAND STATE! Despite blowing a 16-2 lead, Valpo tied it up late as Lange scored a layup in the closing second to make it 75-all! She and Gerardot put the team on their backs doe (for Madden lol) to win it 92-84.

Tab: Best double-double of her career- 32 points, personal-high 19 rebounds
Gina: Career-high 24 points, playing with four fouls during most of the end

Probably deserved its own thread, but props for giving the girls props!!  I haven't had time over the last few days to do my normal analysis, so I do apologize for that (especially to those of you who have pm'd me, asking for my thoughts).  Needless to say, great win for a program that continues to improve night-in, night-out.  We can nit-pick Dorow, but let's face it...things are headed the right direction and this is without HER players.  8-12 (3-4) is nothing to get giddy over, but it sure is better than 5-15 (1-8) at this time last year  (or, for those counting, 4-16 (1-7) the year before). 

Haters gon' hate, but it's hard to argue with the facts. 

[valpo4life]

As far as the baseline defense discussion goes, the way defense is taught nowadays is the force the defense away from the middle where there are many more options for the player with the ball to make. The proper way to go about it is to force your player to the baseline, but don't open up so they get all the way to the lane. You ride them towards the baseline around the short corner position cutting them off there. This is how you defense should be, and is played in today's game.

Now about the end of the WSU game. It is a pretty common rule that coaches go with, if there are 4 or 5 seconds left on the clock. You take it and go, rely on your players to make a play against a defense that isn't set. Giving the defense a chance to make a play during a timeout is a no no (good thing CSU's coach isn't too bright, playing man in that situation yesterday? a joke). So you cannot blast the coach for that, but what do good coaches do? They adjust, which is what happened yesterday and it worked out well.