2/9/19 VU @ CSU Game Thread

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Thank goodness he has a calm demeanour with all that he has to endure during a game of holding, pushing, hitting and bumping with no call.

AMEN! It's ridiculous.  And contrary to reason.

Now that he is an established star and All-American, he should get MORE calls, NOT LESS, and yet:

Last year:  4.44 FT/game; this year, 4.08, or about 10% fewer trips to the line!  [/rant]

[agibson]

Under the scenarios we've discussed (Valpo sweeping WSU and Detroit) it would seem 99.9% impossible that Green Bay would get a tie-break over Valpo. We'd be assuming that Green Bay would win out, which would mean another loss for YSU. In order for Valpo to lose a tie-break, YSU would likely have to finish alone in third.

Yeah, I agree that it's pretty unlikely Valpo could win the next two and _not_ get the #1 seed.

Valpo probably wins a three-way or four-way tie for first.

If Valpo ties with just Green Bay for first, then, as you say, it's Youngstown State in third (or, gasp, Loyola in third if they win out!  Maybe still possible?) that would cause problems.  But, I don't think it would have to be YSU in third by themselves.  YSU tied with Detroit for third would probably give it to Green Bay.  Or maybe even YSU tied for third with Wright State (then it gets complicated).  Or, indeed, if the sky falls and Loyola manages to get a share of third.

Probably if we manage to win the next two, all of these scenarios will have dissolved in the mean time.  Green Bay losing at Cleveland State, and Loyola losing against UIC (or at Milwaukee) would take care of it.

Of, yeah, I guess we could just win a third game.

[Smj]

Anybody watch the CSU post game?   Apparently we did not beat them.   Sorry but I lost some respect for this coach...         

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EU5pmUD6og&feature=youtube_gdata_player

And i have to agree that the slapping and rough play against Ryan has to stop.   it is the refs job to call it and the play where ryan got hit in the face pissed me off.   (Someone else on the team should protect him by fouling that guy hard enough to make him think next time down.)   That is one of those times where i want Bryce to step on to the court and get in the refs face about it.

[StlVUFan]

Under the scenarios we've discussed (Valpo sweeping WSU and Detroit) it would seem 99.9% impossible that Green Bay would get a tie-break over Valpo. We'd be assuming that Green Bay would win out, which would mean another loss for YSU. In order for Valpo to lose a tie-break, YSU would likely have to finish alone in third.

Yeah, I agree that it's pretty unlikely Valpo could win the next two and _not_ get the #1 seed.

Valpo probably wins a three-way or four-way tie for first.

If Valpo ties with just Green Bay for first, then, as you say, it's Youngstown State in third (or, gasp, Loyola in third if they win out!  Maybe still possible?) that would cause problems.  But, I don't think it would have to be YSU in third by themselves.  YSU tied with Detroit for third would probably give it to Green Bay.  Or maybe even YSU tied for third with Wright State (then it gets complicated).  Or, indeed, if the sky falls and Loyola manages to get a share of third.

Probably if we manage to win the next two, all of these scenarios will have dissolved in the mean time.  Green Bay losing at Cleveland State, and Loyola losing against UIC (or at Milwaukee) would take care of it.

Of, yeah, I guess we could just win a third game.

If YSU and WSU were tied for 3rd, Valpo would win the tiebreaker unless GB beats YSU.  If YSU and Detroit were tied for 3rd and YSU beats GB, it would depend on 5th place (if GB sweeps YSU, GB would win the tiebreaker; this is another example of that rule that insists that higher ranking ties be broken first: without that, Detroit eliminates YSU from their tie, and then breaks the first place tie in favor of Valpo).

[StlVUFan]

Anybody watch the CSU post game?   Apparently we did not beat them.   Sorry but I lost some respect for this coach...         

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EU5pmUD6og&feature=youtube_gdata_player

And i have to agree that the slapping and rough play against Ryan has to stop.   it is the refs job to call it and the play where ryan got hit in the face pissed me off.   (Someone else on the team should protect him by fouling that guy hard enough to make him think next time down.)   That is one of those times where i want Bryce to step on to the court and get in the refs face about it.

I read the comments in the paper.

I only saw one instance of Ryan getting slapped in the face, but I may have missed some.  At the same time, there were times when a Valpo player came darn close to doing the same thing without getting called for it.

I agree though.  It should be called a foul.  Somehow the feeling that Waters coaches his team to injure the other team won't completely dissipate for me...  I don't really buy it, but I can't shake it off as completely ridiculous either.  Is it really a coincidence that this is the 2nd straight year we leave CSU with a win but all banged up?  I dunno....

[Smj]

I doubt he coaches to injure...  I was just not too impressed with how he handled the loss during his post game interview.   At least say something good about the opponent that "beat" you.   

Also, I was not really just saying this game.   I see players being rougher than they need to against Ryan in a lot of games.   I just feel like I have seen too many games where they defend like it is a football game.

[KL31NY]

What was Gary trying to say about our 3-point shooting? It came away to me like he was saying Broekhoff is our only good 3-point shooter

I understand how he's trying to put the onus on his team. He's right that CSU's defense needed to be better and their offensive execution needed to be better at the rim. But he can say that without pushing us aside like we're just another team. We're not on the verge of securing another regular season title for nothing.

[Smj]

What was Gary trying to say about our 3-point shooting? It came away to me like he was saying Broekhoff is our only good 3-point shooter

I understand how he's trying to put the onus on his team. He's right that CSU's defense needed to be better and their offensive execution needed to be better at the rim. But he can say that without pushing us aside like we're just another team. We're not on the verge of securing another regular season title for nothing.

Totally agree.....   How about saying "they are not the number one for nothing".   Jeter was super classy after we beat them and I kind of compared this post game to that one...   Also,saying we can't shoot threes - love to see a team leave us open from three for a game ....   See how that turns out.

[vu72]

I doubt he coaches to injure...  I was just not too impressed with how he handled the loss during his post game interview.   At least say something good about the opponent that "beat" you.   

Also, I was not really just saying this game.   I see players being rougher than they need to against Ryan in a lot of games.   I just feel like I have seen too many games where they defend like it is a football game.

Somehow I suspect, just suspect now, that our seniors may want to take a look at that interview, and just maybe correct a few things Mr. Waters had to say.   

[CSU Fan]

I agree that the post-game comments were not very generous but I'm sure Waters doesn't coach to injure. It's almost impossible to see a game objectively when you're a fan - I never think we get the calls even at home.

[StlVUFan]

I agree that the post-game comments were not very generous but I'm sure Waters doesn't coach to injure. It's almost impossible to see a game objectively when you're a fan - I never think we get the calls even at home.

I agree I'm not being objective, and most of my disappointment is aimed at the refs.

A slightly more rational impression I have gotten is that CSU pushes the envelope more than any other team in this conference, trying to get away with as much contact as they can.

It is also possible that your team is typically stronger physically than our team is.  All I know is we need a MASH unit every time we play at your place.  Our guys were getting bodied into the basketball standard and no foul was called.  There were a couple of make-up calls on your guys that were ticky-tack at the end.

In the end, this is a cruel sport.  A time like this (assuming I'm not making a mountain out of a mole-hill about our injuries) affords us an opportunity to fight through incredible setbacks.  If they persevere, it might be a boon.  If they don't, it could be devastating (No, I don't expect fans of other teams to be sympathetic).  Last year, we stumbled into Beeghley short-handed two days later and had our lunch handed to us.  We righted the ship, but I'm not entirely convinced the letdown in the championship game can't be traced partly back to Kevin's injury at CSU.  Maybe it was unrelated, I know he got injured again in that game, but it's possible.

Of course, this is a one-bid league, and every team wants what Valpo has right now, so even without injuries it's a brutal sport.  I would love it if it could brutal without the injuries, but that's not part of the bargain.

<sigh> If we have to take on WSU with a 6 or 7 man rotation, I'm very afraid we're going to lose.  We're gonna need Coleman and Fernandez for significant minutes, I think, unless somehow both Dority and Kenney are good to go.

[valpotx]

I have said it many times before, but Waters is a moron.  He talks trash about the other coaches in the HL, in the middle of a hotel breakfast area, when it is highly likely that opponent's fans are sitting there as well (me and my fiance).

Coach Waters, this is directed to you, but you are a f'ing moron, and you got your a$$ beat down by a better team and coach.

[wh]

For the record, CSU has committed more fouls/game than any other HL team.  They also rank 44th in D-1.  They are ridiculously overly physical and always have been under Waters "teaching." 

By the way, WSU is the 2nd highest fouling team in the HL and 71st nationally. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

[Valpo89]

I like how he said, and I'm paraphrasing, "the next time we face that team."
What are the odds of that happening? I'm guessing slim to none.
Take your rebuilding year like a man. You'll be back next season.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

dude.  that's like an auden poem.  well done.

and then I guess Tex's reaction was kind of like a David Mamet speech

[valpotx]

I'll take it.  If your postgame reaction to getting your a$$ whipped is 'we beat ourselves,' you deserve every name thrown at you.  When a team is up by close to 20, you don't beat yourself, you get OWNED by the other team

[valporun]

A couple of things about the postgame comments from Waters...yes, his defense was horrible, but wasn't it last year that his excuse was the exact same thing...MISSED LAYUPS? As he stated, "We missed 6 UNCONTESTED layups, and gave up 4 UNCONTESTED". It just seems like the same thing every year with him. His guys try to be a little better than they are, but the patience to make those layups and uncontested shots doesn't happen because they freak out by how open they are. I would be concerned with this team next season, when they have more experience together, and missing pieces are back in the lineup. They'll be an NCAA team again soon.

[wh]

I didn't hear Waters mention anything about the 2 bank-shot 3's they hit that made the final score look closer than it actually was.  Maybe I missed it.

[Smj]

... They'll be an NCAA team again soon.

I think Forbes will be super fun to watch for CSU fans in the next few years....

[EddieCabot]

I didn't hear Waters mention anything about the 2 bank-shot 3's they hit that made the final score look closer than it actually was.  Maybe I missed it.

I sort of understand this ... Waters used to claim that CSU was better than Butler after getting beat.  In an odd way, I respect him for sticking up for his team.  He doesn't make excuses and holds his team to a high standard.  He didn't mention injuries or point out his team was young or that guys had the sniffles.  He just said his team didn't play well enough to win. 

I don't love him by any stretch, but over time, I learned to respect his competitiveness and the fact that his teams usually reflected his personality.

[FWalum]

This has become a much more physical game than it was 20 years ago.  Hasn't anybody noticed that many players look like they should be playing tight end instead of basketball?  Nate Wolters from South Dakota State scored a school-record 53 points with nine 3-pointers the other night when they defeated IPFW 80-74. The color commentator (former college coach) said that he couldn't believe how soft IPFW played Wolters and that he should have gotten decked a few times when instead he went unmolested through the lane for layups.  It is expected that your best player is also going to be the target or some physical play most likely early in the game.  Do you coach to injure someone??? No, but you better be letting people know that there will be no easy possessions. I am not excusing dirty play, but physical play is here to stay.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Speaking of douchebag CSU coaches, anyone remember the coach from late 80s or early 90s...I remember being at the ARC and the drummer for the pep band...or probably a percussionist, really...some girl not into the game was (for whatever reason) throwing a bass drum stick into the air and trying to catch it. 

Progressively higher and higher, until
a) she failed to catch it
b) it bounced to the CSU bench near the whiny coach (Kevin something?)
c) he picked it up and fired it onto the court while yelling at the refs
d) they promptly gave a technical
e) ...to US!  bench/crowd.

I remember going berserk after that.

[StlVUFan]

Speaking of douchebag CSU coaches, anyone remember the coach from late 80s or early 90s...I remember being at the ARC and the drummer for the pep band...or probably a percussionist, really...some girl not into the game was (for whatever reason) throwing a bass drum stick into the air and trying to catch it. 

Progressively higher and higher, until
a) she failed to catch it
b) it bounced to the CSU bench near the whiny coach (Kevin something?)
c) he picked it up and fired it onto the court while yelling at the refs
d) they promptly gave a technical
e) ...to US!  bench/crowd.

I remember going berserk after that.

I suspect the coach of Buffalo (then or now, really) could beat that several times a season.

[wh]

I see CSU lost by 30 tonight.  They must have missed 15 uncontested layups.