LADY SADERS doin' their thang @ LOYOLA (2/13/13 game thread!)

IndyValpo · February 14, 2013, 02:41:37 PM

Quote from: jack on February 14, 2013, 02:22:00 PMI've been pretty specific of the things I would try in this, and other post. I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but I know of one I do have: What we are trying is not working. Turning things around could be as simple as mixing up the starting line up. I did notice last night the energy that Weidmann played with. She also seemed to be moving more purposefully. Could very well be because she got into the game very early on. So much of this game is played in the space between the players ears. We need a spark. We need to mix things up. We need earned playing time. I'm not the only one that feels that starting the same 5, game in, and game out is not working. Period. Again, I think I've probably been more then clear here on what I think we need to try. I'd like to hear suggestions from others. What do you think we need to try Valpo4life?

As I recall you reamed Dorow for starting Weidmann about 2 weeks ago. Regardless, I have no problem with starting different people. At least the current coach has been open to playing different combinations. Some work, some don't. I have said this for 3.5 years so here goes...we play Richards too many minutes. She is a 20-25 minute player. Coach has fallen into the same trap as Freeman. You look at the stats and see that she doesn't turn the ball over and you figure she has to be on the floor all the time. She doesn't have turnovers because her passes do not attempt to put anyone in a better scoring position. I love her energy, I would just love it about 10-15 minutes less per game.

jack · February 14, 2013, 03:15:53 PM

You've pinpointed one problem if we are not a guard oriented team. We have seven guards on the roster. That can be used to an advantage at times. I think we need to look at utilizing our speed at times. Gina and Tabby's games rely on decent guard play. If our guards are stagnate, the D collapses in on the bigs.

jack · February 14, 2013, 03:26:27 PM

Quote from: IndyValpo on February 14, 2013, 02:41:37 PM
Quote from: jack on February 14, 2013, 02:22:00 PMI've been pretty specific of the things I would try in this, and other post. I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but I know of one I do have: What we are trying is not working. Turning things around could be as simple as mixing up the starting line up. I did notice last night the energy that Weidmann played with. She also seemed to be moving more purposefully. Could very well be because she got into the game very early on. So much of this game is played in the space between the players ears. We need a spark. We need to mix things up. We need earned playing time. I'm not the only one that feels that starting the same 5, game in, and game out is not working. Period. Again, I think I've probably been more then clear here on what I think we need to try. I'd like to hear suggestions from others. What do you think we need to try Valpo4life?

As I recall you reamed Dorow for starting Weidmann about 2 weeks ago. Regardless, I have no problem with starting different people. At least the current coach has been open to playing different combinations. Some work, some don't. I have said this for 3.5 years so here goes...we play Richards too many minutes. She is a 20-25 minute player. Coach has fallen into the same trap as Freeman. You look at the stats and see that she doesn't turn the ball over and you figure she has to be on the floor all the time. She doesn't have turnovers because her passes do not attempt to put anyone in a better scoring position. I love her energy, I would just love it about 10-15 minutes less per game.

I haven't reamed Dorow, or any of the coaches. It's a learning process for them too. I've only pointed out things they continue to stick with, that aren't working. I had no issue with starting Weidmann. I had an issue with starting her withhout also starting a guard that could get her the ball in shooting possition. It's the combination of who we start that's critical. Continuing to start each game with two guards that aren't putting up the points we need them to, will not work. Playing them a collective 65 minutes a night isn't working either. Ditto on Richards. I've mentioned those very issues too. Playing a guard on average of 33 minutes a game, that doesn't put up points is a mistake. She had some nice assist. the other night, but like you state, I would accept some turnovers if we were getting the ball into the paint and setting up the bigs to score. Her passes are safe.

KL31NY · February 16, 2013, 01:25:00 PM

Valpo led UIC 7-4 early on, now trails 14-7 midway through the 1st.

When the Flames got up 11-7, Dorow called a timeout and completely changed the lineup. Carr, Miller, Lange, Scott, and Dean came in while Wiedemann, Richards, Horton, Gerardot, Richardson came out.

ValpoHoops · February 16, 2013, 01:30:16 PM

The team is flat to start. No fire it doesn't seem. Miller has provided a spark with a couple of threes now, as as I write a nice pass to Tab for an and-one. Starting to think we need to, as a team, play faster. Just attack all the time ad throw some caution to the wind.

More importantly, I'm upset that STL walked in, sat down in my row (we are the only two in this row), and sat down without saying hello.

jack · February 16, 2013, 01:59:40 PM

Quote from: ValpoHoops on February 16, 2013, 01:30:16 PM
The team is flat to start. No fire it doesn't seem. Miller has provided a spark with a couple of threes now, as as I write a nice pass to Tab for an and-one. Starting to think we need to, as a team, play faster. Just attack all the time ad throw some caution to the wind.

More importantly, I'm upset that STL walked in, sat down in my row (we are the only two in this row), and sat down without saying hello.

I've always been about them playing faster. With a 7 guard squad, we need to utilize our speed.

Same starting 5, same slump to start. We went 7 min. without a score.

I hate to keep harping on it it but......At the 8 min. mark we were down 10 I believe. We sit Richards. At the 3 min. mark we are only down 2. we bring Richards back in. If not for the desperation shot going in at the buzzer by Miller, we would be down 9 at the break. We just don't play fast, or get the ball inside with Richards on the point. Even though Carr didn't take a shot, the offense seems to flow better when she is running it. Crisper passing, and always looking inside. JMO.
Great to see Miller getting some minutes, and confidence!
"I feel the need, the need for speed" in the second half!

vuweathernerd · February 16, 2013, 02:47:28 PM

Per Oren - the ladies are on a 28-6 run. Turned a 4 point deficit into an 18 point lead.

ValpoHoops · February 16, 2013, 04:04:08 PM

Smoked them in the second half. Defensive intensity was up, offensive aggressiveness was WAY up and the team scored 55...funny how attacking the basket will do that...

Saw some things I really liked from some of the players today...

Tab is Tab, a quiet 18-14 game today to be honest.

Liz was much more assertive on offense...not just making post moves and shooting, she was attacking the rim, making plays

Shaq was very aggressive. If she continues to be aggressive, its going to make things better for everyone

Lexi was very good today. Her first possession, she was the PG and turned it over. After that, she was on the floor with someone else to play the point, and she was very good. She can handle the game if she doesn't have to manage the team, and today was a sign of that (and really was the first time she played off the ball)...also did a nice job distributing

Wiedemann was a different player than normal today...aggressive, looked to drive but always was ready. Made some very nice plays to help the team.

Charae scored our first five points and hit a big shot in the second half during our big run and did a nice job of playing within her game...quietly had a nice game

Carr was solid as well. Didn't take a shot, but did a GREAT job rebounding on the defensive end, which led to her points from the FT line. Did a solid job when at the PG spot just getting the team into things, especially against a couple kids for UIC that are really good on-ball defenders.

Laura hit a couple of big threes in short order, as well as doing a GREAT job on the defensive end - especially in the second half. She was able to disrupt the UIC offense and held #4 (Story) under her season average...and just 4-12 from the floor. 9 pts, 7 reb, 5 ast (3to) and the defense she played was well worth the 32 minutes...and if we could get that from her on a nightly basis it would be a huge plus.

Gina was solid on both ends...tough to say much, she really seems to blend in until you look at a box score.

Abby played well in her few minutes...good hands on defense and was strong to the rim on offense...

Second half was really a beautiful thing to watch. I had the chance to take in practice yesterday and they were working on a lot of the things that I saw in the game today...including being aggressive and it really showed today. Hopefully, that idea continues to take hold and the team continues to score at this rate...defense only has to be "decent" when you score 88.

Not everything was great (you know, like the first half), but after a second half like that, its definitely good to roll with the good and worry about the bad tomorrow.

ValpoHoops · February 16, 2013, 04:14:42 PM

UIC's largest lead was 11, with 7:52 to play in the first half. I happened to look at my phone during the media timeout at this point and it was exactly 1:30...which is our normal start time for home games.

From there, we "won" 76-39...so I blame ESPN and the men's team for having this evening's game on TV, which led to the women sliding their game up the half hour.

jack · February 16, 2013, 05:15:44 PM

Nice assesment VHoops. I think the coaches are starting to learn how to maximize our strengths. We have to be built on speed with the personnel we have. The second half sowed what we are capable of, when we get at it aggresively.
Great win ladies!

SadersofthelostArc · February 16, 2013, 07:20:06 PM

Well, well, well, how the tables have been turned.

ValpoHoops · February 16, 2013, 07:30:21 PM

Quote from: jack on February 16, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
I think the coaches are starting to learn how to maximize our strengths. We have to be built on speed with the personnel we have.

Not sure I agree with this. I think they're always known the strengths and its just a matter of everything clicking. Like is said, I was at practice yesterday as there was an extremely concerted effort to get certain players to do certain things....almost an exasperated message like "I've been telling you guys to do this all along why is it just now sinking in?" thing.

One of the things I thought about during the mens game tonight was in terms of the speed/pace/aggressiveness the team has. I also talked to a couple of the coaches during the game and they seemed to agree that it's been hard at time to break the players of habits (this is usually really, really, really hard to do) and if you think about the style they played with Freeman at the helm, it was a much more controlled, low tempo game...these coaches would love to score 90 a game but the players are still adjusting to that.

I think it's really a matter of the message, the understanding, the system and the execution all flowing together. Like I said, hopefully this was a sign of things to come.

SadersofthelostArc · February 16, 2013, 07:48:11 PM

ValpoHoops, aren't you on the VU staff or formerly on the staff?

I've really enjoyed reading your insights lately. The arm-chair coaches around here need to be put on notice and you're doing a fine job of that.

ValpoHoops · February 16, 2013, 07:54:25 PM

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on February 16, 2013, 07:48:11 PM
ValpoHoops, aren't you on the VU staff or formerly on the staff?

No. If I was I wouldn't be posting on a fan message board...that's for sure.

SadersofthelostArc · February 16, 2013, 08:06:19 PM

Did you used to work for the program? Or were you just a consultant?

I remember reading about you breaking down IUN film last year, so I assumed...

ValpoHoops · February 16, 2013, 08:14:41 PM

Nope. And not sure what a consultant would do for a basketball program....I'd think if you trusted someone that much, you'd just have them as a coach.

But I digress...I was breaking down their film because I wa coaching a team that played against them. I've been more active on the board lately because I'm no longer coaching there and have had much more free time in my "new life". I'll leave it there (and ask that everyone else does too)

jack · February 18, 2013, 07:19:18 AM

Quote from: ValpoHoops on February 16, 2013, 07:30:21 PM
Quote from: jack on February 16, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
I think the coaches are starting to learn how to maximize our strengths. We have to be built on speed with the personnel we have.

Not sure I agree with this. I think they're always known the strengths and its just a matter of everything clicking. Like is said, I was at practice yesterday as there was an extremely concerted effort to get certain players to do certain things....almost an exasperated message like "I've been telling you guys to do this all along why is it just now sinking in?" thing.

One of the things I thought about during the mens game tonight was in terms of the speed/pace/aggressiveness the team has. I also talked to a couple of the coaches during the game and they seemed to agree that it's been hard at time to break the players of habits (this is usually really, really, really hard to do) and if you think about the style they played with Freeman at the helm, it was a much more controlled, low tempo game...these coaches would love to score 90 a game but the players are still adjusting to that.

I think it's really a matter of the message, the understanding, the system and the execution all flowing together. Like I said, hopefully this was a sign of things to come.

Without the benefit of being at practice, it seems to have taken this staff a while to get these players to buy into the system, if what we saw on Saturday was the system they intend on using. As far as tempo, comparing it to last year, Freeman had no choice but to play a slower tempo. He only had 6, sometimes 5 healthy players at any given time. I'm still amazed at how he was able to pull out 10 wins with what he had to work with.

I still feel we need to shake up the starting five. We dig a hole every game, and play catch up for too long. We need that spark right out of the gate. We had a lot of players contribute in different ways Saturday. I don't believe our starting guards are the best we have at getting the ball inside like we need to.

I've notice that, in the ladies game, and not just with Valpo, coaches have quit stressing the importance of the bounce pass. We have a couple of players that do it well, but for the most part, it's non-existent. Back in my coaching days, if you weren't utilizing the bounce pass when needed, you were a spectator, until you learned.

A large percentage of our turnovers come from trying to force errant passes, when a bounce pass would get the job done.