2/16/13 Valpo home to UDM

[KL31NY]

Meanwhile, a highlight from the student section:

Valparaiso University Harlem Shake

This happened during Bryce's TO that extended to a timeout on the floor. We were up 63-53 with just over 8 minutes left and we lost. Do we dare blame the students or specifically "The Harlem Shake Meme" for losing this game? 

[vu72]

I agree that LaVonte did not have a very good game.  What I had hoped for was a point who could come in when the other team was sagging off Erik and knock down the three.  He has done that some, but I would prefer that role be filled by Will, who is as good of a ballhandler and a lights out shooter.

When Dority has the ball I do cringe expecting a miscue or turnover but last night he had 3 assts and 1 to, but his shooting, or choice of shots was not good.

Erik Buggs is in a class of his own.  Ex-his shooting, he is as good as any point in most leagues.  His defense, ball handling and passing are fantastic. He has got to be the quickest player to ever wear the brown and gold. We have been spoiled. The performance of the team is less tied to Ryan and mostly tied to Erik. I hope Carter is close to as good.

We did everything well last night except the turnovers.  Somehow I don't see that changing and will be our ultimate downfall.

[78crusader]

I haven't read any of the posts written after this game finished last evening. 

I don't much about basketball unlike many posters on this board.

Two things stood out, for me anyway, while watching the game last night.  First: that Minnerath guy is really good.  He looks like he could play for any Big 10 team.  Second: I don't intend for this to be a mean comment, but Dority is not a good player, and if he is the point guard for next year, we are in for a long season.   

Paul

[valpotx]

Not sure I have any problems with how Detroit conducted themselves. Steve Wojo and Chris Collins used to slap the floor all the time at Duke (at all points of the game) and they were universally praised (except by Carolina) fans for being gritty, hard-nosed players. Suddenly Junior does it and everyone is upset? I don't even have a problem with McCallum pounding his chest after he led his team back from a 15-point deficit in their biggest game of the year. He's got 1,200 students screaming "Daddy's Boy" every time he touches the ball, of course he is going to react.

Unless we find out that the fans were on a spray-painting rampage after the game last night, not sure you can criticize much about Detroit with the exception of Calliste's flagrant. They kept their starters in at the end because they aren't a very deep team and it was a five-point game down the stretch.

This was just a great college basketball game, great atmosphere and it will be a shame if these two teams don't play again. 

Eddie was being a smart a$$ about keeping the starters in.  He likes to come on the board and act like he roots for both Valpo and Butler, but he is just here to be a smart a$$ 

[justducky]

He went 1-8.....that's aweful.  Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.

Overall I think LaVonte is slightly better at the 2 and slightly worse at the 1 than I was expecting. This comparison may have been made before but he reminds me a bit of a younger Brandon McPherson, but with a less accurate 3 point shot.

Would Jay Harris have played better backup point against that pressure? Don't think so and he is long gone. Will? Probably not. Maybe Jordan, or Matt or Ben? Nooooo not likely.

Dority is our best option at this point and should continue to improve as the rest of the season plays out. This is one of the teams biggest vulnerabilities and is going to require a little more work. Maybe Eastern Kentucky will do us a favor and press and overplay for 40 minutes because we could use the extra practice. First order of business is revenge at Loyola!

[EddieCabot]

Would Jay Harris have played better backup point against that pressure? Don't think so and he is long gone.

That ship has sailed.  It's been discussed over and over ... Harris and Edwards left because they knew they couldn't get minutes ahead of Dority and Capobianco.  Could they help at times?  Possibly ... but they chose not to stay around and accept diminished roles.

[valpopal]

Justducky is just right. I have wanted to stay out of this discussion about Dority because I thought the best thing was to put the game behind and focus on the future since Valpo still controls its fate. However, the number of posts pointing fingers at Dority has gotten to the level one sometimes sees when people are looking to find a scapegoat. Nobody expected Dority to be "a starting d1 point guard." His best position is at the 2 guard. He should be the starting 2-guard next year beside Carter when he is eligible. Dority has been playing back-up point guard this year out of necessity, but that is not his strength. His strength is driving to the basket and scoring or drawing fouls and shooting better than 80% at the free throw line. Look at the three games where Dority led the team in scoring and you will see this.

Dority would be the first to acknowledge he had a bad game last night. In fact, he was almost apologetic in a tweet this morning, stating that he knows he is better than what he showed. However, nobody has mentioned it (and to his credit Dority hasn't used this as an excuse), but he was playing on a bad ankle. He spent the whole week up to game time treating the ankle and trying to recuperate. He is not as strong as Buggs on defense, but he is better than shown in the last couple of games where he has been a step to a half-step slow and showing some difficulty in lateral movement.

Look at the game two weeks ago against UIC as well as the two before that just before he injured his ankle and compare them to the last two games after his injury (Wright State and Detroit) that occurred only one week before the Detroit game. The difference is like night and day. The kid was matched up against "the preseason Player of the Year and future NBA player" while sporting an ankle that was being iced all week. 

He went 1-8.....that's aweful.  Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.

Overall I think LaVonte is slightly better at the 2 and slightly worse at the 1 than I was expecting. This comparison may have been made before but he reminds me a bit of a younger Brandon McPherson, but with a less accurate 3 point shot.

Would Jay Harris have played better backup point against that pressure? Don't think so and he is long gone. Will? Probably not. Maybe Jordan, or Matt or Ben? Nooooo not likely.

Dority is our best option at this point and should continue to improve as the rest of the season plays out. This is one of the teams biggest vulnerabilities and is going to require a little more work. Maybe Eastern Kentucky will do us a favor and press and overplay for 40 minutes because we could use the extra practice. First order of business is revenge at Loyola!

[valpopal]

On a brighter note, the newest class of Valpo's Athletic Hall of Fame was inducted yesterday and introduced at halftime of the game. As you can see, the class was led by former basketball star Katie Boone. I was fortunate to meet and have dinner with a couple of the honorees, and I enjoyed hearing stories about Valpo's sports teams of the 1950s and 1960s, as well as reflections on campus life more than 50 years ago. After the disappointing end of the game, those stories helped put things in a better perspective. Here is a photo I took of the inductees being introduced.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Nobody expected Dority to be "a starting d1 point guard."

erm...i don't know...seems to me a lot of people did.  Scott Drew, Stan Heath, (possibly) Bill Self and Tom Crean.  Bo Ryan.  Steve Alford.  If they count for anything as far as knowing what a d1 point is.  Stan Heath made him a starting d1 point guard.

Let's not rewrite history here!  LVD has played the point in college so far (USF), and in high school (Simeon), and probably since biddy ball.  Just because he might make a better 2 than a 1 now doesn't mean he was "never a point guard".  Perhaps because we are used to Erik, an old-school pass-first one (not to mention predecessors like him, e.g. Jared Loyd), we don't think of someone who is new-school (in the Chauncey Billups mode of looking to shoot or create as much as to pass) as a "point guard".

Yet that is what he is and what he was brought in for.  Whether he's been effective--in the games he hasn't been injured for--is, of course, another discussion. 

Let's just not rewrite the facts and write him off in doing so yet.

[valpopal]

Sorry, I guess I should have been more precise. I wasn't including those in Dority's past. I was referencing those here who have observed the situation. This year Dority was expected to be the back-up complementing Buggs, especially useful late in the game when other teams might try to foul Erik, and a part-time 2-guard. Next year, as Chef has pointed out elsewhere, the coaching staff is projecting Carter as the starting point guard and Dority as starting at the 2 position, though once again he might be called upon because of necessity to play point guard in some of the games before Carter is eligible.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

OK, that's all well and good.

In other news, who doesn't love Katie Boone? 

I'm going to stop myself right there before people think I'm just Saders with better taste.

[Smj]

I don't know if I agree with how negative the discussion is around Doritity now.  It is almost like fans want to write him off.   

Yes, he struggled and I think I started this because I said someone needs to work with him on shot selection and not forcing plays....   

HOWEVER, I think that Dority has a lot of talent for the team to work with - I think he will get wiser.  Bryce was definitely "coaching" him during the game.   

[truth219]

All the fingers are pointing at dority because we all watched the same game. When buggs drives....he either finishes at the hoop, dishes, or dribbles back out. Dority can't finish as well, hogs the ball and seems like never wants to pass, and doesn't have the skills to dribble back out. We are fans...I'm not doritys mother. I call it how I see it. I'm not being mean and saying dority is a bad person. Being a fan I have to praise for the good and talk about the bad. Valpos weakness still is no back up point gaurd. Which we all thought dority would be. I hope lexus williams is good 

[valpotx]

OK, that's all well and good.

In other news, who doesn't love Katie Boone? 

I'm going to stop myself right there before people think I'm just Saders with better taste.

Very nice girl, and was a great player for us

[valpopal]

We are fans...I'm not doritys mother. I call it how I see it.   

We are all fans, but some see it with a more complete perspective than you do. You also said: "Wear your blinders if you want, but he isn't good. He isn't even a good back up." You are the one with blinders. As a back up coming off the bench, Dority has the third leading scoring average on the team, just behind Ryan and Kevin. Also, as I said in my past message, you seem to be blind to the fact he was playing on a bad ankle wrapped in ice all week against a player called "the preseason Player of the Year and a future NBA player." Call it the way you see it, but be sure to view the whole picture.

[truth219]

3rd in scoring true but his field goal % is 36 worst on the team....his 3 point shooting % is 28 good enough for 2nd worst on the team. He averages 2.1 assists per game but also gives up 2.2 turnovers but yes he is the 3rd leading scorer

[valpospartan]

He went 1-8.....that's aweful.  Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.

agree!
Will? Probably YES. Maybe Jordan, or Matt or Ben?.

Dority is not our best option at this point and PROBABLY WON'T improve as the rest of the season plays out. This is one of the teams biggest vulnerabilities and is going to require a little more work.

i FIXED YOUR POST FOR YOU, DUCKY.

[truth219]

Dority is also 4th in most shots attempted (even though he didn't play til december)...and 8th in minutes played....shoots too much for worst shooting percentage on the team

[vuweathernerd]

Meanwhile, a highlight from the student section:

Valparaiso University Harlem Shake

This happened during Bryce's TO that extended to a timeout on the floor. We were up 63-53 with just over 8 minutes left and we lost. Do we dare blame the students or specifically "The Harlem Shake Meme" for losing this game? 

yes, i do put the blame on this happening.

and it doesn't bother me that they still had their starters in at the end, because we were trying to cut the deficit, in single digits, and fouling as well. if they had been up by 20 again, it'd have been a different story.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

wouldn't be a complete thread without truth ragging on someone playing hurt.

I MEAN REALLY HOW DARE THEY MISS A SHOT!  PULL THEIR SCHOLARSHIP!  THIS TEAM IS LOSING IN THE FIRST ROUND ARRGH ARRGH MISSPELLED WORDS

[atkins]

Definitely no love on this board for Dority, who clearly played a bad game.  However, our stars did not step up when it counts.  Ryan was streaky/inconsistent.  Kevin looked lost and out-muscled after the first half.  In games like this, Ryan and Kevin should have put the load on their shoulders, but they did not do so.  Can't blame Buggs or Capo for this loss.  Both of them played a great game (except for Buggs' ridiculous three-point shot, which came at an inopportune time), and it's too easy to blame the "new guy" (i.e., Dority).  Let's keep in mind that he did not play lights-out at USF, either, so perhaps we expected too much.  However, when it comes down to it, leaders step up in big games (ala Butler's leadership), but our leaders are not stepping up consistently.  As any student of college basketball knows, streaky play does not win games.   

[sliman]

After waiting a couple of days to let my frustrations with Saturday's game moderate, I've been reading the post-game comments and agree with many of them.  Detroit simply outplayed us in the second half on both ends of the floor, especially in the final 10 minutes.  I thought Junior handled himself decently (and I agree that Buggs may have outplayed him for the first 30 minutes); the only time I was a bit bothered by his behavior was his reaction when he made a flat-footed put-back after the ball had been batted around following his missed shot, a basket that seemed put Detroit solidly in control.  As for slapping the floor, teams have been doing that for years as a sign of their commitment to playing defense; perhaps we should have tried slapping the floor in the final quarter!  While I think some of the attacks on Dority (who attended Foreman, not Simeon, BTW) have been a bit vicious, I also have been disappointed that he hasn't been consistently more valuable.  Is this because he hasn't been playing up to the level of his ability or because we expect too much from him?  While recognizing there may be some truth in the former, I also believe many have expected too much from him since pre-season chatter began.  We (using the term collectively) seem to think that any transfer from a "BCS" school should be an instant star here when in reality a player not seeing significant minutes at a BCS school is seldom going to be an instant star in the Horizon League.  I still believe Dority can be an asset to us, but it most likely will be after Bryce and staff have the off-season to work with him, helping him understand and improve his weaknesses while teaching him that he doesn't have to take a lot of shots to help the team.  Let's not burden the transfers that become eligible next year with expectations so high that we're all talking about how disappointing they are.  For now, let's hope the players are focused and sharp for tomorrow night's game; Loyola more often than not seems to give us trouble regardless of the comparative records.

[truth219]

If he's hurt why didn't coleman play when dority was at the 2. Him having the worst scoring percentage on the team is for the course of the season, but you guys are right he's in his first half season so of course he isn't going to make shots

[StlVUFan]

I do not take it as a slap in the face but as immaturity.

Which has been my precise point.  I don't hate him because he dunked.  I'm disappointed in him for going for a cheap thrill that lasts 2 seconds in exchange for an entire season of backlash that could conceivably disrupt his own game, fire up the Crusaders, make the venue even more hostile, you name it.  Very bad trade-off, and not very business-like.  Last year I was ready to hope that it would be chalked up as "lesson learned".  Now I'm thinking he might have done it intentionally, hoping we all would hate him.  As a Valpo fan, that scares me.  As a sports fan, its a huge turn-off.  I also can't help wondering how such a mentality can serve one when they graduate from sports to some other lifestyle.

I'm theorizing here, I'm not jumping to conclusions.  It would please me to no end if I'm reading him incorrectly.

[StlVUFan]

Dority appears to be Ali Berdiel version 2013 -- ya know, "high risk, high reward", except we haven't progressed to the high reward part yet.  But he does look like he forces it too much and thinks more highly of his abilities than he should.  His drive to end the half was successful, so it's not always a fail, and he is more of a 3-pt threat than Erik is, and I think he's a better FT shooter than Erik.

Several people have pointed out the biggest reason why Valpo lost, at least on the Valpo side of the ledger: Erik Buggs foul trouble.

I would like to point out the biggest reason I think from the Detroit side of the ledger: they are stronger and more athletic than we are, in my humble opinion, and Saturday night, they found their groove.  It seems to me Detroit's most powerful enemy is itself.  If they defeat that enemy, I'm not sure there's much Valpo can do to stem the tide.

Perhaps Erik is the key to both of those things, and that is where the whole outlook of a rematch hinges.  If Erik is a force throughout the game (and doesn't commit two really stupid fouls), perhaps Detroit remains discombobulated, and Valpo prevails.

I have zero problem with players slapping the floor.  I love it when I see my team do that.