Valpo - Youngstown Game Thread - 2/26

[VULB#62]

I'll bet  a dozen donuts that the FB team was called on the carpet because of the Op/Ed piece, and they did what I would do -- say screw it, we tried to juice up the place and this is what we get for it?  Sad thing about that is that the chilling affect had two repercussions:  it curtailed the enthusiasm of the 'Zone by their organized absence and it disrupted a bonding moment for a FB team that needs all the bonding it can muster.

Just lost a dozen donuts.  Coach Teegardin tweeted the following to the entire team:  "All VU Football players... who cares what some guy said!  Keep doing your thing."

https://twitter.com/CoachTee34/status/306547528587935744

On top of that was Kenney's encouraging tweet earlier.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I enjoyed how long they were stuck on 45 points

from a Blake Allen FT at 14:46 to a Damian Eargle layup at 8:52.

That's almost 6 minutes of game time, and FOREVER in real time.

We've had some great stretches pitching shutouts.  Wonder where this ranks?

[letsgovu]

Quote from: valpospartan on February 26, 2013, 10:47:37 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 26, 2013, 09:45:53 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 26, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
Nice comeback.    Team got it done. Where the h*** are the fans on a senior night game to clinch the league title?     Upper deck is empty.    Student turnout very lame.   Do students only go to TV games?
weather was undoubtedly a factor
Just an excuse.  Weather wasn't bad for a fan!

I agree. In Valpo the weather wasn't that bad. The roads were drivable, and had been treated, and yes, it was messy, but it wasn't nearly as slick as I thought it might be. Now driving all the way to Michigan City or all the way from Milwaukee, through Chicago, to Valpo might have been a different story with the weather and snowfall amounts being different in different areas near Valpo.

I drove from the Chicago suburbs and it was pretty hairy at times.  traffic was slow and there were a few bad accidents.  I wouldn't be surprised if many did not make the trip from this area because of the weather.

Over the years, have there been bridges burned between the community and University administration that have kept community members away from anything at the university? As was mentioned before, possibility that many community members don't want to shell out $20 a ticket to take 4 family members to a game, where they are in the cheap seats, and feel like they aren't a crucial part of the atmosphere...

I recall seeing more in previous years about "family packs" of tickets that included tickets and food for a very inexpensive price.  Didn't see as much of that this year.  Also don't think there was as many community nights.  In the last year or two it seemed like at almost every other game there was little kids playing at halftime or some kind of church group at the game.  This year it seems as though more community groups are singing the anthem but thats about it.  Perhaps the administration felt that they didn't need to offer as many of these types of promos based on the success of the team?  Seems to me it would be better to give away free tickets than see the stands empty.

[agibson]

I recall seeing more in previous years about "family packs" of tickets that included tickets and food for a very inexpensive price

The details I turned up quickly are from 2010
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2010-11/10352/valparaiso-to-hold-first-of-four-family-nights-saturday-night/
"Families may purchase four tickets in the mezzanine and $20 in concessions vouchers for just $28.  Lower level bleacher seating packages are also available for $48. "
There were four that season.

I think there were at least two of these nights this season as well, but I don't know the details nor how well publicized they were.

Since we're comparing ticket prices with other venues: I happened to look at St. Mary's last home game of the season, against Santa Clara (not one of the top names in the WCC) on Saturday.  It's $25 for general admission to their top-most seating section.  $35 gets you a reserved seat in the bottom of that section.

[Kyle321n]

I drove from the Chicago suburbs and it was pretty hairy at times.  traffic was slow and there were a few bad accidents.  I wouldn't be surprised if many did not make the trip from this area because of the weather.

I'll say, I work in Valpo, so the roads weren't that bad.  After the game though I went to Hammond and then back down to St. John.  If you live in Valpo, there is 0 excuse for not coming to the game last night, the roads in Valpo were fine.  Slushy, but no less drivable than if it was raining.  I would venture to say the same for Chesterton and Portage.  Now if you're a little further out, I understand to an extent.  94 and 49 weren't terrible after the game, but I don't know how they were pre-game.

[hckjag]

I drove from the Chicago suburbs and it was pretty hairy at times.  traffic was slow and there were a few bad accidents.  I wouldn't be surprised if many did not make the trip from this area because of the weather.

I'll say, I work in Valpo, so the roads weren't that bad.  After the game though I went to Hammond and then back down to St. John.  If you live in Valpo, there is 0 excuse for not coming to the game last night, the roads in Valpo were fine.  Slushy, but no less drivable than if it was raining.  I would venture to say the same for Chesterton and Portage.  Now if you're a little further out, I understand to an extent.  94 and 49 weren't terrible after the game, but I don't know how they were pre-game.

Came from Chicagoland and the closer to Valpo we got, the better the roads. The main roads/expressways were wet, yet the biggest problem was the bad accident on 80/94 around I-65. It took about 30 minutes to go 2 miles. Luckily we were able to slide over and jump on 65 or we wouldn't have made the game til the 2nd half. Of course the only reason we made it out was because the weather was bad enough in Chicago area to cancel the basketball game I was supposed to coach. It was an awesome night honoring the seniors for those who were there and the roads were fine driving home afterwards!

[a3uge]

That culture is underscored by that Torch Op/Ed piece last week and things like dry tailgating at FB games.  All of these things have a chilling affect on people letting loose and coming for the dramatic impact of game night at the ARC.  I'll bet  a dozen donuts that the FB team was called on the carpet because of the Op/Ed piece, and they did what I would do -- say screw it, we tried to juice up the place and this is what we get for it?  Sad thing about that is that the chilling affect had two repercussions:  it curtailed the enthusiasm of the 'Zone by their organized absence and it disrupted a bonding moment for a FB team that needs all the bonding it can muster.

Great post.

More thoughts.

We either have a student section full of lame people that write articles in the torch specifically calling out fans who showed up with enthusiasm. OR we have students who aren't going to bother showing up because they'll get called out for attending a sporting event with alcohol in their system. I've NEVER EVER EVER heard of ANYONE attending a SPORTING EVENT after/while drinking! Maybe it's because I'm from Wisconsin and we think it's customary to pregame a wake, but I'm failing to see how screaming football players in the student section makes our school look bad on TV. If anything it makes us look better compared to what we've had before in the front row. I'd be inclined to believe this person has never been to Lambeau or Wrigley game either. They'd probably write another crappy article in the torch about how sports should be subjected to the 21st amendment.

I hope they say "sorry I'm not sorry" and come to more games. Students will come to more games if they know it's a rowdy environment. If that means some fans are drunk, then so be it. Suck it up, and worry about cheering on your team instead of worrying about the other people cheering on the team.

[VULB#62]

A passionate campus should have the capacity to be passionate about everything Valpo.  Is the Valpo community truly passionate about anything?  We hear there is a passion for excellence, but is it true or just words?

I envy all of you alums within a decent drive of campus.  I also recall 6000 at VU football games against Indiana State, Ball State, Evansville and Butler, etc., and a filled newly expanded Hilltop Gym during the Bartow era.  There certainly was passion then.

[wh]

A passionate campus should have the capacity to be passionate about everything Valpo.  Is the Valpo community truly passionate about anything? We hear there is a passion for excellence, but is it true or just words?

I envy all of you alums within a decent drive of campus.  I also recall 6000 at VU football games against Indiana State, Ball State, Evansville and Butler, etc., and a filled newly expanded Hilltop Gym during the Bartow era.  There certainly was passion then.

A lot of parochial attitudes in the Vale of Paradise. Full of IU, Purdue and ND fans (alumni and otherwise), who will never see VU as worthy of following.  It is also "VHS-obsessed."

[StlVUFan]

To me part of it is the culture that is fostered by the university.  That culture is underscored by that Torch Op/Ed piece last week and things like dry tailgating at FB games.  All of these things have a chilling affect on people letting loose and coming for the dramatic impact of game night at the ARC.

The most depressing thing about this is the apparent truism that people need to get intoxicated in order to bring the passion at the game.

If they were drunk, the only remaining question is: were they doing anything inappropriately disruptive?  By the way, there is a difference between drinking and being drunk.  That said, I have a few questions for a few people involved in this kerfuffle:

1.  Nate King sits on the opposite end of the court from the student section, so how does he know they were intoxicated?  (My guess: he was told)
2.  Matt Kenney presumably had more important things to focus on than scrutinizing the student section enough to be able to say with any certainty that they were doing nothing wrong.  Hell, I was there with no responsibilities whatsoever, and I had better things to focus on than that.  I didn't notice anything untoward, but I was too busy watching the game.  Both of us spent an inordinate amount of time on the opposite end of the court concentration on the game.  Neither one of us has any idea what all went on over there.  So why should I put much stock in his tweet fest in support of the FB players.

Furthermore, nobody is talking about how Nate King also agrees with some of you here about the student section not bringing the heat when Detroit made their move.

Finally, he saved his harshest critique for event staff, not the FB players.

I have no idea whether they were intoxicated or not.  I'm not taking a position on that one way or another (I do seem to recall the FB program has a somewhat checkered past, though).  If nothing inappropriate happened, I'm satisfied.

What annoys me is this notion that people getting intoxicated is worthy of celebration because it happens everywhere or because it is too hard to cheer and make noise otherwise.

I never found that to be true for me.

[VULB#62]

The most depressing thing about this is the apparent truism that people need to get intoxicated in order to bring the passion at the game.

What annoys me is this notion that people getting intoxicated is worthy of celebration because it happens everywhere or because it is too hard to cheer and make noise otherwise.

I never found that to be true for me.

Unfortunately, it may have sounded in my comments like I was endorsing alcohol consumption as the preferred medium of choice for game time stimulation.  Not so, although as I read STL's viewpoint I can see how that could come across.  What I was trying to get across was the chilling affect of attitudes reflected by my chosen examples (and maybe there are others that I should/could have cited) which may contribute to a lack of desire to attend games or, once there, inhibiting people from letting go, enjoying, and being vocal and demonstrative fans.  Meaning that perhaps in the backs of people's (students mainly) minds might be this little voice saying "don't get too involved, stay a little restrained," because that's what the perceived behavioral expectation is at Valpo.  And those who consider ignoring that little voice might fear criticism.  Of course, all of this is conjecture on my part.  I wasn't there.  Just some thoughts in an effort to try to explain some of the observations others expressed. After all, once or twice a week in the winter, THE place to be for 2-3 hours should be, without question, the ARC. Yet, most agree that isn't quite the case right now.

[StlVUFan]

I can feature Nate King being the only one silenced over this.  I'm having trouble seeing his editorial silencing anyone.

I can also feature the idea of this editorial not being entirely his.

I read the editorial again last night and I noticed that he wasn't so much upset at the alleged "drunkenness" as he was at the thought that there was a protocol to the Valparaizone that these FB players flouted, sauntering in at the last minute and taking places away from students who waited in line (I witnessed that line and it was long).  Again, I have no idea if that's true or not.

What I do know is that I've yet to read or hear anyone challenging any of the actual assertions in the editorial, save for a twitter friend who says he saw nothing over the line.  I'm inclined to accept that because the other thing I know is that there was no time during the game when the referees stopped play to eject one of them.  There was no announcement by John Bawker reiterating the expected behavior by fans (which he gives before every game).  Thus, I deduce there couldn't have been anything too terribly extreme going on.  Furthermore, TV cameras are inclined, at least in some sports, to avert the viewer's eyes from shenanigans anyway.

What concerns me is: One guy writes an editorial and the whole campus is up in arms.  If anyone's in for the big chill, it's him.  That's what I'm thinking.

[VULB#62]

You may be right 

[jloose128]

As a student of this University, a friend of Nate King, and someone who has attended every single home game (while not on holiday breaks), I think it is getting to a point of utter ridiculousness that this discussion continues.

Yes, it was nice to have some great energy from the possibly drunk football players, but some of the shenanigans went too far, and I agree with Nate on this point. Not only were they on the basketball court during the "Harlem Shake," but the infamous beach ball landed on the court earlier, and someone chucked an empty bottle at the Detroit bench. Not only is this dangerous, but it's just terrible sportsmanship. It's not something Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Utah State or any of the other exciting student sections in the country do.

I arrived at the ARC around 3:40 and waited outside for the twenty minutes before getting inside to wait another hour. Yet, at five, these players get the "prime" seats on the floor. I can't disagree with this point either.

And finally, aside from personally paying students to come, what good does it do to continue to discuss the low attendance? Has it ever occurred to any of you people that not everyone at this University likes basketball? Would you rather have 100 people super focused on the game, or 500 all on their cell phones and not paying attention at all? With evening classes, papers, exams, meetings, and jobs, some people just can't make it to the games, especially on a Tuesday night, even if it is Senior Night. All of you that are not students have absolutely no control over this, so continuing to see this discussed is really start to make me angry.

We are 23-7 (12-3), we are hosting another conference tournament, we have the premier team in the Horizon League. How about we focus on that?

[agibson]

I arrived at the ARC around 3:40 and waited outside for the twenty minutes before getting inside to wait another hour. Yet, at five, these players get the "prime" seats on the floor. I can't disagree with this point either.

This sounds like a legitimate beef.  With event management, as Nate King said in his opinion piece.  Respecting the line makes sense - perhaps with exceptions for people with painted chests, superhero costumes, etc.

Yes, it was nice to have some great energy from the possibly drunk football players, but some of the shenanigans went too far, and I agree with Nate on this point. Not only were they on the basketball court during the "Harlem Shake," but the infamous beach ball landed on the court earlier, and someone chucked an empty bottle at the Detroit bench. Not only is this dangerous, but it's just terrible sportsmanship. It's not something Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Utah State or any of the other exciting student sections in the country do.

Interesting to hear the shenanigans listed!   The tricycles and whatever on the court would have been bad had we gotten a technical.  But, given that we didn't... tempting to write it off as goofy hijinks more or less in the spirit of the, apparently officially sanctioned, "Shake" video.

From way up in AA the beach ball looked pretty innocent.  But, I suppose if they _intentionally_ threw it on the court...

Throwing a bottle does sound bad.  Hopefully plastic?  But, that should probably get you ejected.  Is that what prompted the announcement?  It seemed a bit much for just the beach ball.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

(in all honesty, i agree with your points. sorry we're cranky old guys some times.)

[StlVUFan]

Well put.

but the infamous beach ball landed on the court earlier, and someone chucked an empty bottle at the Detroit bench

If these things happened (I was there and I missed it -- I wouldn't know the Harlem Shake if it was pointed out to me, nor do I care to know it), then I think Nate was justified in raising his concerns.  The second thing mentioned here is incredibly stupid.

However, I would dispute the assertion that this discussion has become ridiculous.  It may have started out ridiculous, but it has gotten better, most notably by your contribution.  After all, in here, we're not preparing for Green Bay and the tourney.  We're multi-tasking fans.

[StlVUFan]

Throwing a bottle does sound bad.  Hopefully plastic?  But, that should probably get you ejected.  Is that what prompted the announcement?  It seemed a bit much for just the beach ball.

See?  I even forgot the announcement   Still can't remember it.

[jloose128]

Yes, a plastic bottle hit the Detroit bench. Had they not been in timeout, there is no doubt in my mind there would have been a technical foul. At least the crazy people didn't come into contact with the Detroit players or coaches, that would not have been a good situation.

The beach ball was before the Harlem Shake incident. I myself was very confused when it happened, as I had not yet heard of this odd phenomenon. At one point, someone from the event staff took it away, and yet it somehow ended up back in the stands and ended up on the court. Another situation where we are lucky that a technical foul was not caused.

Speaking of Detroit, I find it humorous that they managed a whopping 1,357 for their Senior Night on Tuesday. The weather might have been bad in Detroit, but it's been pretty bad in Valpo too.

I have to say, as bad as this is or could have been, this looks like nothing compared to Kansas-Iowa State from earlier this week....

[valpo04]

With evening classes, papers, exams, meetings, and jobs, some people just can't make it to the games, especially on a Tuesday night, even if it is Senior Night. All of you that are not students have absolutely no control over this, so continuing to see this discussed is really start to make me angry.

Amazing...the number of undergrads has increased dramatically since I graduated, yet we managed to pack the student section just about every game...even with evening classes, papers, exams, meetings and jobs.

The discussion is valid, but certainly nothing to get "angry" about.

That said, it's always nice to have current students post here and get their perspective so thank you for your thoughts.  I wish more would post.  Although, if we are having trouble getting students to the games, getting them on here might be impossible 

[wh]

FYI for those not there - after the ref shooed the tricyclists off the court, someone from their coaching staff asked the ref to have us a tech.  He just smiled and shook his head from side to side as if to say not gonna happen. 

[StlVUFan]

FYI for those not there - after the ref shooed the tricyclists off the court, someone from their coaching staff asked the ref to have us a tech.  He just smiled and shook his head from side to side as if to say not gonna happen. 

In other words, nothing they hadn't dealt with easily before, which is what I suspected.

[VULB#62]

On a positive note:  A tweet from the ValparaisZone announced that only a few tickets remain for the March 9 game and encouraged the students, despite spring break to pack the 'Zone.      

[valpotx]

With evening classes, papers, exams, meetings, and jobs, some people just can't make it to the games, especially on a Tuesday night, even if it is Senior Night. All of you that are not students have absolutely no control over this, so continuing to see this discussed is really start to make me angry.

Amazing...the number of undergrads has increased dramatically since I graduated, yet we managed to pack the student section just about every game...even with evening classes, papers, exams, meetings and jobs.

The discussion is valid, but certainly nothing to get "angry" about.

That said, it's always nice to have current students post here and get their perspective so thank you for your thoughts.  I wish more would post.  Although, if we are having trouble getting students to the games, getting them on here might be impossible 

I agree with your point 04, of course, as it sounds like you were in school around the same time as me.  Students had to sit at the top of the mezz because it was so crowded.  These things jloose lists as being taxing on a student, I would absolutely love to deal with again, instead of the stuff you deal with when you get to be 30+.  This discussion is VERY valid, as the student turnout is pathetic for most games.  As I have said many times, you add all that crap you just mentioned, plus 20-40 hours/week of baseball, 10-20 hours/week of volunteering at a local disability assistance center, and you have the schedule I did.  I made it to every game, and I didn't even like college basketball when I first set foot on campus, as we are a football and baseball state.  I feel absolutely no sympathy for college students who complain that they don't have time to do anything but school, as it was very easy for me in spite of all that I had to do. 

I fully understand that some people aren't sports fans on campus, but getting a few hundred to a game shouldn't be a problem...

[jloose128]

Personally, I missed out on studying for an exam, finishing homework for another class, and even completely skipping an important meeting in order to attend Tuesday's game and stay for the entirety of the post-game Senior Night festivities. I am in no way defending the student population that I wish was more interested in college basketball. However, your complaining about the turnout, valpotx, does absolutely nothing to this situation. Please continue to speculate on why the turnout is so bad, but don't you dare sit there and attack the majority without acknowledging the few of us that religiously attend every single game in addition to watching or at least following all the road games. I wish our number was greater, but it isn't. It's sad, it's terrible, but there is nothing to do but encourage people to go and hope they fall for it like valpotx did.