WBB - Wright State @ Valpo 2/28/13

valpo4life · March 01, 2013, 12:08:13 PM

I feel our shooters struggle because we don't really run an offense that would favor a jump shooter.
[/quote]

When the offense is ran properly and guards use the ball screen right away and don't sit there for 2 seconds then there will be open shots on the opposite side of the court if the ball moves fast enough. So the lack of good looks is our on the players on the court. And also, if you didn't notice they ran double staggered screens for shooters multiple times. That is a new twist to give the girls a chance for good looks from the top of the key. The offense is not the problem in my opinion, it's lack of execution.

StlVUFan · March 01, 2013, 12:22:05 PM

Quote from: Kyle321n on March 01, 2013, 12:01:27 PM
Quote from: talksalot on March 01, 2013, 08:35:27 AM
WBB fans... the HL has announced a change in the start for Senior Day... March 9th. We will tip at NOON against UDM... which means their crowd for the Mens' game that night will not have anything else to do but come to the ARC for the Women's game...I hope our crowd will at least match theirs!! May not be the last home game of the year for the women... #8 hosts #9 for the privilege of traveling to the shores of Green Bay.

What are they charging nowadays for a WBB game, this might interest me and have me come to the ARC 5 hours early...

Cheer against Detroit twice and cheer on VU twice in one day? Sounds fun

10 bucks general admission, I believe. I plan to do the same.

jack · March 01, 2013, 01:08:39 PM

Quote from: valpo4life on March 01, 2013, 12:08:13 PM

I feel our shooters struggle because we don't really run an offense that would favor a jump shooter.

When the offense is ran properly and guards use the ball screen right away and don't sit there for 2 seconds then there will be open shots on the opposite side of the court if the ball moves fast enough. So the lack of good looks is our on the players on the court. And also, if you didn't notice they ran double staggered screens for shooters multiple times. That is a new twist to give the girls a chance for good looks from the top of the key. The offense is not the problem in my opinion, it's lack of execution.
[/quote]

The players are talented, and trying to learn a new system. I did notice the double stacked, but we weren't using it properly. Some may be the players not executing, but watching the way were were using the screens didn't make sense at times either. Are they being shown how to roll off of them properly? It still comes down to having a shooting guard on the floor in each rotation. I love the fact that tab can hit that outside shot, and Gina at times too, but getting them that far from the hole spells disaster if they aren't hitting. Something else we lack on is the give and go, and the back door. These plays when executed are a nice size equalizer.
I really think we need to start working our young guns into the mix a little more. We have another guard coming in next year apparently, that averages 4pts a game. That wont get it done on the offensive side of the ball.

ValpoHoops · March 01, 2013, 02:32:42 PM

Here's the key issue (in my opinion) right now that causes the differences of opinion here:

jack, just based on your postings, I believe you to have "a dog in the fight" as they say. I'm not saying you absolutely do, and I'm not calling you out for it. If you do, its absolutely understandable why you have a very short-term view...ie, we need to do this now, change the system now, etc. That view is fine, and if my belief is correct, totally understandable...and again, I'm certainly not calling you out for it.

Now, the issue with that is that I don't think this team, as currently constructed, is good enough on a talent level to win a bunch of games...period (I thought 10-12 coming into this year would be about right). That's a result of what these coaches inherited when they got here. Saying that, I also think that putting their system in RIGHT NOW, and taking the punches is good in the long term...if you take this year and run some other system, then you have to start all over again next year, and you're in the same boat. I've been involved with building a team at the college level, it just takes time.

Do I want the team to win now, you can bet the farm that I do, but I also understand that this year was never going to be a great year in the W/L area, and that next year may well be a struggle too. However, once this year is done and next begins, its then fair to start evaluating whether or not the team is making progress. I have been to several practices over the past couple of weeks, and I was at a couple early in the season as well. I know that it hasn't showed a lot in game situations, but I do believe that the players - both on an individual basis and as a team - are improving.

Not having Liz healthy the last few games really hurt...it basically forced Tab and Gina to play a ton of minutes, and even Shaq to play at the 4 for stretches...I believe this was manifested big time in the WSU game, when Tab played 42 minutes...that's just too many for her and it showed. This has possibly made it look like we have taken a step back...we simply have ZERO depth, especially up front.

Main idea: The short-term outlook of this team (aka, this year) isn't great, but I don't think you can say "let's change a bunch of stuff to make sure we win right now" if it hurts you later on. Our current kids play hard and with passion, that's something you can not teach them to do...and they have talent...they just don't have ENOUGH of it as a group, and they aren't athletic enough to make up for it.

I think the kids that come back next year will build a solid foundation, and the kids who are hopefully coming in next year should be able to contribute right away. I really believe the 2014 class is the one that will be the group that pushes this program forward (The 2013 class was basically blown up with the coaching change...that's just how it works unfortunately).

ValpoHoops · March 01, 2013, 02:39:57 PM

Quote from: jack on March 01, 2013, 01:08:39 PMThe players are talented, and trying to learn a new system. I did notice the double stacked, but we weren't using it properly. Some may be the players not executing, but watching the way were were using the screens didn't make sense at times either. Are they being shown how to roll off of them properly? It still comes down to having a shooting guard on the floor in each rotation.

The staggers/doubles is newer stuff...its not going to be perfect yet. Right now, the players are feeling the reads and even through the WSU game, it got a lot better than from the beginning. This is going to be something that's going to have a very steep curve for them right now, just based on the timing.

As for shooting guards, the problem is that we don't have anyone who is consistently knocking them down on the outside. We have eight players who have taken at least 20 3FG...of that group the ONLY one shooing better than 33% is Tab (Wiedemann is second at 32%). To say we need a shooter on the floor is accurate...but who is it??

jack · March 01, 2013, 03:08:40 PM

No Dog in the fight Hoops, just been following quite a few of these players for a long time, even prior to highschool with some. I've actually been following Valpo Hoops even longer, and have been a big fan, just wasn't aware of this site until a few years back.
I really don't expect miracles with this group or the coaching staff. I think they may be 3 years away from having a solid foundation to work with, and start winning consistently. I don't believe my views of the future of this program are short term, only my comments of the game at hand when posting. Dorow and her staff inheritted another program, period. They may have some very goods ideas moving forward when they begin to blend their own choices into the mix, and they can recruit players that play the style they want to play. My main observation while watching this group is, we don't seem to be maximizing our efforts with what we do have. I spent some time coaching the game as well, and it has never made sense to me why we start any given game with two guards that both seem to want to play point. You are correct, our shooting guards have been struggling for a while now, but we still need a shooting guard on the floor in every rotation.
I agree, the team, as is, won't put up a lot of wins. It's just disheartening when we lose games that we should be winning. I respectfully disagree, that clock management wasn't an issue in yesterday's loss. At the time is was an issue, again, we had 2 guards in that were both trying to play point. We dribbled off 52 seconds in 2 possesions and came away empty handed. I see this as a problem. As for who should be out there to shoot, we have some young guards that can shoot. I'd rather put up an open look and miss, than to not get around to getting a look at all. We have 8 guards. If none of them can shoot, than why were they recruited? We have a guard coming in next year who isn't known for scoring either. Maybe it's time we start figuring out who we will be counting on to score moving forward. There are offenses to implement to put them in the best possition to score.
You and I aren't that far apart on what we see, and what we would like to see. I think we just have a different way of saying it.

valpo4life · March 01, 2013, 04:42:13 PM

To start out, as far as Aliyah Issac goes (girl signed for next season), yea she doesn't score but will be the best defender and most athletic player next season. Also, she plays for a great team and is a part of a winning atmosphere, I don't wanna hear about what she can't do for us next season.

I don't think there are two players out there trying to play point guard, and in this system there really isn't a "shooting guard" position. The two off ball guards each do the same thing as the other, it just depends on which side the ball is entered. And if they get through a couple ball reversals, the "point guard" now has the same role as either the 2 or 3 had before.

bbtds · March 01, 2013, 04:43:02 PM

Quote from: talksalot on March 01, 2013, 08:35:27 AM
WBB fans... the HL has announced a change in the start for Senior Day... March 9th. We will tip at NOON against UDM... which means their crowd for the Mens' game that night will not have anything else to do but come to the ARC for the Women's game...I hope our crowd will at least match theirs!! May not be the last home game of the year for the women... #8 hosts #9 for the privilege of traveling to the shores of Green Bay.

Seems like if I was a Detroit MEN'S fan I would just delay my trip to Valpo till the Saturday start time for the MEN'S game in the evening and not have to spend all day in Valpo where I don't know anybody anyway.

VULB#62 · March 01, 2013, 05:15:46 PM

On the other hand, it's a great opportunity to buy spray paint and select good paint surfaces around the town.

I'm sorry.

That was not Christian of me.

vuweathernerd · March 01, 2013, 10:27:48 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2013, 05:15:46 PM
On the other hand, it's a great opportunity to buy spray paint and select good paint surfaces around the town.

I'm sorry. That was not Christian of me.

I though it was funny, 62.

jack · March 02, 2013, 02:19:17 PM

Quote from: valpo4life on March 01, 2013, 04:42:13 PM
To start out, as far as Aliyah Issac goes (girl signed for next season), yea she doesn't score but will be the best defender and most athletic player next season. Also, she plays for a great team and is a part of a winning atmosphere, I don't wanna hear about what she can't do for us next season.

I don't think there are two players out there trying to play point guard, and in this system there really isn't a "shooting guard" position. The two off ball guards each do the same thing as the other, it just depends on which side the ball is entered. And if they get through a couple ball reversals, the "point guard" now has the same role as either the 2 or 3 had before.

Calm down there Skippy, no one made mention of what they think she can't do for us next season. We need a lock down defender and it sounds like she's the one for that. We also need guards that can score, which we need to work on in the off season.
There really is a shooting guard in the system we run. We just need to decide who that is, on any given set.

KL31NY · March 02, 2013, 05:46:38 PM

Anyone watch or follow today's game live, here's what I see from the box score: We led most of the first 30 minutes, gave up the lead on a CSU run, got the lead back on a run, and then gave it up again and couldn't climb back ahead for the end.

We went up 49-43 with 6:15, and then did the following on offense: turnover, missed front end of a 1-and-1, missed two free throws, turnover, missed 3-pointer (game tied by that time), made 3-pointer (to take a 52-51 lead), missed jumper (trailing again by now), missed layup, turnover, missed jumper, missed 3-pointer, tip-in basket after missed front end of a 1-and-1, ended the game with the ball. Final: 58-54 CSU

We build up one of our biggest leads in the game, and then we convert on just 2 of our 13 final possessions. We close with 3 TOs, 0-4 at the line (our only misses of the game), 2-7 shooting overall. I can't comment too much past the numbers I'm seeing and how selectively I might be seeing them and displaying for you. Simply put... tough

jack · March 03, 2013, 07:23:24 PM

Yeah, it was a tough loss. We have to figure out a way to close out games we should be winning. It seems when we get down to the last several minutes of a given game, our concentration drops off. Going cold from the floor, and missing the free throws did it in this one.

I felt the coaching staff did, probably their best job of the season in their substitutions and rotations. We had fresh legs on the floor for most of the contest. We just need to get out of our shooting slump, and start hitting our free throws when we need to.

Tomorrow's contest will be a tough one. We really aren't a squad that can compete in 3 games in a 5 day stretch.

KL31NY · March 04, 2013, 10:22:10 AM

Quote from: jack on March 03, 2013, 07:23:24 PM
We have to figure out a way to close out games we should be winning.

Excerpt from a recent Torch article on Dorow, addressing this very game situation

Quote"We've had some games where we competed well when we found ourselves in a hole and came back, but still lost. We have to get this team to invest themselves fully in the game. They have to realize that if they want to be champions, losing has to hurt, and they need to find ways to win," Dorow said.

A recurring problem for the team has been the inability to close out those close games and come away with a victory, especially after the team has fought back from a significant deficit.

"Losing the close games comes down to the fact that the chemistry is still being formed. When we look good, we look good, and you can see that. A lot of that is the players understanding what the coaching staff wants of them and executing the game plan," Dorow said.