Next Season and Beyond

[bbtds]

i'm pronouncing them to be a solid team come November, even without the freshmen.  i'm confident in Vashil making a leap. 

As was said in the previous post, there is nothing guaranteeing this team will be really good next year. As usual there are some fans looking to the possibilities of these players being real good or great but there is nothing "solid" that says come November that Valpo will for sure be with the top teams in the Horizon League. It's going to be a wait and see situation just like about every year. Yes, Keith Carter, Alex Rossi, Alec Peters, Jubril Adekoya, Vashil Fernandez and Clay Yeo have great potential but I can't call them "solid." What have you seen live or on TV on Homer Drew Court that makes you know for sure that these players will be "solid?"The only player I would call "solid" is Bobby Capobianco.   

Yes, there is much to be hopeful for but there is a huge difference between "hopeful" and a player being "solid." Anyone, who goes back a few years, remember having a lot of great hope for Kenny Harris and Jimmy Miles? How did those situations turn out? 

[valpotx]

Kenny Harris would have been a great player for us in his last 2 seasons if he didn't have that incident.  He worked his a$$ off every day to get into shape, which is something I saw personally in the mornings, as he would run with our team at 5-6 am every few days.  I don't think it is fair to lump him in with anyone else, as he was definitely making large improvements in his game...

[bbtds]

Kenny Harris would have been a great player for us in his last 2 seasons if he didn't have that incident.  He worked his a$$ off every day to get into shape, which is something I saw personally in the mornings, as he would run with our team at 5-6 am every few days.  I don't think it is fair to lump him in with anyone else, as he was definitely making large improvements in his game...

Anything can happen to anyone of the players for Valpo next season. A medical condition (which is what ultimately was the cause of Kenny Harris' incident) has already happened to Alex Rossi. The medical staff happen to catch it before anything dramatic happened to Rossi. Hopefully his medical condition will not effect his career any further at Valpo. That could happen to any of these so called "solid" players that will play for Valpo next year. That is just a fact of life.

I wasn't trying to say that Kenny Harris was a bad person or anything. But it was proven that his career at Valpo did not turn out like many of the fans thought it would. The same goes for Jimmy Miles, no matter what the reasons. I won't think any less of Alex Rossi if it is a medical condition that keeps him from working really hard and becoming a great scorer at Valpo, which he definitely has the potential to do. For Rossi he better be working hard on his defense too.

[valpotx]

I wasn't necessarily speaking to Kenny being a good person (which he was/is), but his overall talent and performance when he was playing.  You can't compare Jimmie Miles and Kenny.  Jimmie did not live up to his hype/potential in regards to performance, but Kenny DID.  The ONLY thing that prevented Kenny from not living up to his hype is a medical condition.  That is much different than saying he wasn't 'solid' when he was playing

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Since you keep picking at my choice of adjective, I'll keep (solidly) pointing out that apparently you keep reading things into what I said. 

I did not say that they would be one of the best teams in the HL--though I do think so.  What I did say, should you care to read it, is that the seven holdovers from this year's roster would constitute a core solid enough to be preferred by at least a third of the HL ... which is 3 teams. 

Call me crazy, but I think we'll do better than 7th with that group, which is a known quantity (and no one, certainly not me, declared any of the freshmen to be "solid").  How much better than 7th will depend on the freshmen.

[bbtds]

Since you keep picking at my choice of adjective, I'll keep (solidly) pointing out that apparently you keep reading things into what I said. 

I did not say that they would be one of the best teams in the HL--though I do think so.  What I did say, should you care to read it, is that the seven holdovers from this year's roster would constitute a core solid enough to be preferred by at least a third of the HL ... which is 3 teams. 

Call me crazy, but I think we'll do better than 7th with that group, which is a known quantity (and no one, certainly not me, declared any of the freshmen to be "solid").  How much better than 7th will depend on the freshmen.

Okay, so "solid" is 7th or better in the Horizon League. If I understand your meanings and use of the vocabulary it's easier for me. I would say we then agree because I did say that next years players would range from middle to top 1 or 2 in the Horizon League.

[VU72too]

I am a new member of the Valpofanzone, but a life long VU fan. I will likely not be a regular participant.

I think overall this season was a great one, coach and players did a FANtastic job all around. It was fun to follow the team, inspite of few TV games. CONGRATULATIONS!!!

But, for years I've been very disappointed with the administration's handling of the basketball program(not to mention football). Valpo's participation in extremely weak conferences comprised of schools with little or nothing in common with VU has not elevated our standing in the eyes of most of the nation. This translates to better recruiting potential, more television exposure(revenues) and the opportunity to play a stronger schedule, which in the long run would  build a better BRAND.
One needs to look no further than our arch rival, or former arch rival, Butler University. Sure for years they kicked our butts 4 out of 5 games, but recently we've held our own and can actually claim a mini 3-game win streak! But, we're still stuck in a go nowhere conference, playing 3rd tier teams and hoping to win our year end tourney to get the lone bid to the dance. How was Butler able to move on up from the lowly Horizon League (not to mention the Summit League), to the A10 and now the Big East, where they will be playing nationally ranked teams on a huge national network(FOX). with a potential for 5,6,7 bids to the Dance.
The interesting thing is that Valpo would have more in common with the New Big East schools from an enrollment and geographic standpoint, than we currently do with the  schools we currently play, not to mention the academic standards. Were we afraid of the Catholics!

Why has Butler advanced so rapidly?  Because their athletic department and administration recogized the path to future success wasn't playing the likes of Ill-Chic. or UMGB.  They've blown right by Valpo, 3 losses in a row aside....Did Valpo even get a call to join the Big East, or the A-10 for that matter? On one hand I hope we did, on the other hand I hope we didn't 'cause we're still stuck in the Horizon.
Wake up VALPO!!!

[bbtds]

I am a new member of the Valpofanzone, but a life long VU fan. I will likely not be a regular participant.

I think overall this season was a great one, coach and players did a FANtastic job all around. It was fun to follow the team, inspite of few TV games. CONGRATULATIONS!!!

But, for years I've been very disappointed with the administration's handling of the basketball program(not to mention football). Valpo's participation in extremely weak conferences comprised of schools with little or nothing in common with VU has not elevated our standing in the eyes of most of the nation. This translates to better recruiting potential, more television exposure(revenues) and the opportunity to play a stronger schedule, which in the long run would  build a better BRAND.
One needs to look no further than our arch rival, or former arch rival, Butler University. Sure for years they kicked our butts 4 out of 5 games, but recently we've held our own and can actually claim a mini 3-game win streak! But, we're still stuck in a go nowhere conference, playing 3rd tier teams and hoping to win our year end tourney to get the lone bid to the dance. How was Butler able to move on up from the lowly Horizon League (not to mention the Summit League), to the A10 and now the Big East, where they will be playing nationally ranked teams on a huge national network(FOX). with a potential for 5,6,7 bids to the Dance.
The interesting thing is that Valpo would have more in common with the New Big East schools from an enrollment and geographic standpoint, than we currently do with the  schools we currently play, not to mention the academic standards. Were we afraid of the Catholics!

Why has Butler advanced so rapidly?  Because their athletic department and administration recogized the path to future success wasn't playing the likes of Ill-Chic. or UMGB.  They've blown right by Valpo, 3 losses in a row aside....Did Valpo even get a call to join the Big East, or the A-10 for that matter? On one hand I hope we did, on the other hand I hope we didn't 'cause we're still stuck in the Horizon.
Wake up VALPO!!!

What actions do you specifically see the athletic department taking to get us in a better conference than the Horizon League?

[VU72too]

I certainly am not versed in the ways of university athletics, so can't chart a path to the mount. Certainly the Drew legacy is worth something at the national level. This is a golden arrow in Valpo's quiver. Let's utilize it!
However, the job of an athletic director,akin to a CEO in the real world, is to be on the lookout for mergers, acquisitions and services that would enhance the BRAND. Being a member of the Horizon league is not enhancing the Valpo BRAND.
As a start, I'd have lunch with Barry Collier, Butler AD, at St Elmos and ask him how they did it. Why did they get the calls? How did they broker a deal. Today, being a Division 1 AD is more than about ordering uniforms and making sure the mascot has a big head!
They must be businessmen first and foremost. I'm not sure who our AD is and where he came from, but I hope he has atleast an MBA...

[vusupporter]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure advancing to two straight national championship games slightly helped Butler's case.

[VU72too]

In checking further, I see that Mr. LaBarbera has a good pedigree and an MBA from DePaul. That's a start.  So he should know how to move us up and out. Perhaps his hands are tied from above?[sic]
Isn't DePaul in the New Big East

[vu72]

I am a new member of the Valpofanzone, but a life long VU fan. I will likely not be a regular participant.

I think overall this season was a great one, coach and players did a FANtastic job all around. It was fun to follow the team, inspite of few TV games. CONGRATULATIONS!!!

But, for years I've been very disappointed with the administration's handling of the basketball program(not to mention football). Valpo's participation in extremely weak conferences comprised of schools with little or nothing in common with VU has not elevated our standing in the eyes of most of the nation. This translates to better recruiting potential, more television exposure(revenues) and the opportunity to play a stronger schedule, which in the long run would  build a better BRAND.
One needs to look no further than our arch rival, or former arch rival, Butler University. Sure for years they kicked our butts 4 out of 5 games, but recently we've held our own and can actually claim a mini 3-game win streak! But, we're still stuck in a go nowhere conference, playing 3rd tier teams and hoping to win our year end tourney to get the lone bid to the dance. How was Butler able to move on up from the lowly Horizon League (not to mention the Summit League), to the A10 and now the Big East, where they will be playing nationally ranked teams on a huge national network(FOX). with a potential for 5,6,7 bids to the Dance.
The interesting thing is that Valpo would have more in common with the New Big East schools from an enrollment and geographic standpoint, than we currently do with the  schools we currently play, not to mention the academic standards. Were we afraid of the Catholics!

Why has Butler advanced so rapidly?  Because their athletic department and administration recogized the path to future success wasn't playing the likes of Ill-Chic. or UMGB.  They've blown right by Valpo, 3 losses in a row aside....Did Valpo even get a call to join the Big East, or the A-10 for that matter? On one hand I hope we did, on the other hand I hope we didn't 'cause we're still stuck in the Horizon.
Wake up VALPO!!!

Welcome!  Now you can take some of the blame for some of my dumb posts!  A few clarifications: Did you know that you can watch all of Valpo's games on the internet?  Don't have to wait for a TV game.  Just go to Horizonleague.com or go to the Valpo athletics site and click on the tv icon on the schedule.

Second, the Horizon League is not "an extremely weak conference". They finished this year ranked 12th out of 31, the same ranking they had the previous year when that other school from Indy was still in the conference.  As for the schools in our conferences having " little or nothing in common with VU", that may be the case in basketball, but certainly not in our football conference which includes schools like Marist, Davidson, Butler, Drake, Campbell, and other highly regarded academics, small and private institutions.

Finally, the win streak against Butler isn't three, it's four.  The only reason they were asked to move up is their championship game record as well as a long history of success in the NCAA tourneys.  It's all about basketball success and something we need to try to follow, no question. 

[vu84v2]

Butler's rise to the Big East, in my opinion has three causes.  In rank order, they are:  (1) success on the basketball court - does Butler get an invite to join the A10 if they didn't go to consecutive finals?, (2) Good fortune....they were in the right place at the right time.  They benefited hugely from the "Catholic revlot" in the Big East, but they in no way caused the revolt, (3) willingness to spend money to upgrade facilities and retain Stevens necessary for higher conferences.  This third cause does play a role, but I do not agree with any other posters that any strategy to move up in conferences should start with spending (note that the road is littered with schools that failed with a "build it and they will come strategy").  Everyone is going to look at the leadership and planning at Butler that has caused their rise, but I would argue that while some of that is true there is a significant amount of idiosyncratic events that have aided Butler's rise.

Another point that needs to be made is what level of conference Valpo should be at.  I could see Valpo playing in the MVC if the opportunity came, but the A10 may be a bit too much of a reach and the Big East makes no sense.  Valpo does not have the available fan base compared to a school like Butler.  Furthermore, right now Valpo needs to make NCAA tournaments and begin winning games.  Moving to a much tougher conference is not going to bring NCAA tournament births more than working to win the Horizon each year.  The Horizon is not a low tier conference by any definition - it is really a mid-tier conference.

Here is what I think that Valpo should do in the near term:
-Pay Bryce. He is going to make the difference over the next 3-5 years.  His energy, motivation, and improving coaching ability will keep Valpo achieving 20 win seasons.
-Have a strong non-conference schedule each year that includes good home games in November and December.
-Expect to win.  Even with the huge player turnover, everyone should expect this team to contend next year.  Winning this year would be an excellent foundation for tournament success in 2015 or 2016.

[vu72]

I'm curious.  What facility improvements did Butler do to enhance its success?  They are just now raising money to improve Hinkle.  They sure did pay Stevens--a million a year.  Not to diminish Stevens in any way, but Butler's success was tied to getting very lucky with Hayward and Matt Howard (who was highly regarded) but not to the level he achieved as well as that other guard who is now also in the NBA.  They were very good this year and made the dance because of the play of Rotnei Clark.  How they do next year with he and Smith will be very interesting.

[crusaderjoe]

I certainly am not versed in the ways of university athletics, so can't chart a path to the mount. Certainly the Drew legacy is worth something at the national level. This is a golden arrow in Valpo's quiver. Let's utilize it!
However, the job of an athletic director,akin to a CEO in the real world, is to be on the lookout for mergers, acquisitions and services that would enhance the BRAND. Being a member of the Horizon league is not enhancing the Valpo BRAND.
As a start, I'd have lunch with Barry Collier, Butler AD, at St Elmos and ask him how they did it. Why did they get the calls? How did they broker a deal. Today, being a Division 1 AD is more than about ordering uniforms and making sure the mascot has a big head!
They must be businessmen first and foremost. I'm not sure who our AD is and where he came from, but I hope he has atleast an MBA...

Well then there now.  Lookie here...another gimmick has graced our presence.   

[VU72too]

Finally, the win streak against Butler isn't three, it's four.  The only reason they were asked to move up is their championship game record as well as a long history of success in the NCAA tourneys.  It's all about basketball success and something we need to try to follow, no question. 
VU72: I guess I must have missed one win along the way. My apologies. The webcasts just don't do it for me, plus the revenue to build a program isn't through the web...yet ...Did we get any money from allstate for the astronaut ad? That was a highlight after Thursday's disappointment.
Is "lookie here" a colloquial phrase?
       
     
     
       
       
       
          

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Okay, so "solid" is 7th or better in the Horizon League. If I understand your meanings and use of the vocabulary it's easier for me. I would say we then agree because I did say that next years players would range from middle to top 1 or 2 in the Horizon League.

Well, better than 7th, or middle-tier, 4-6.  And I think the freshmen will vault us up to the top third, but that's more hope than anything.  I envision a Wright State-type year in terms of surprises, but without having been picked last to start with.

I'm in the process of a huge analysis of returning players in the HL, but it'll have to wait until after Holy Week.  Plus Loyola keeps hemorrhaging players and changing my output

[wh]

I certainly am not versed in the ways of university athletics, so can't chart a path to the mount. Certainly the Drew legacy is worth something at the national level. This is a golden arrow in Valpo's quiver. Let's utilize it!
However, the job of an athletic director,akin to a CEO in the real world, is to be on the lookout for mergers, acquisitions and services that would enhance the BRAND. Being a member of the Horizon league is not enhancing the Valpo BRAND.
As a start, I'd have lunch with Barry Collier, Butler AD, at St Elmos and ask him how they did it. Why did they get the calls? How did they broker a deal. Today, being a Division 1 AD is more than about ordering uniforms and making sure the mascot has a big head!
They must be businessmen first and foremost. I'm not sure who our AD is and where he came from, but I hope he has atleast an MBA...

Well then there now.  Lookie here...another gimmick has graced our presence.   

Yep, DID alert...

[vu72]

I certainly am not versed in the ways of university athletics, so can't chart a path to the mount. Certainly the Drew legacy is worth something at the national level. This is a golden arrow in Valpo's quiver. Let's utilize it!
However, the job of an athletic director,akin to a CEO in the real world, is to be on the lookout for mergers, acquisitions and services that would enhance the BRAND. Being a member of the Horizon league is not enhancing the Valpo BRAND.
As a start, I'd have lunch with Barry Collier, Butler AD, at St Elmos and ask him how they did it. Why did they get the calls? How did they broker a deal. Today, being a Division 1 AD is more than about ordering uniforms and making sure the mascot has a big head!
They must be businessmen first and foremost. I'm not sure who our AD is and where he came from, but I hope he has atleast an MBA...

[/b]
Well then there now.  Lookie here...another gimmick has graced our presence.   

Yep, DID alert...

 

[a3uge]

allstate

The fact you didn't even know who was the sponsor of the ad tells me no, they did not receive any money off the commercial.

[FWalum]

I certainly am not versed in the ways of university athletics, so can't chart a path to the mount. Certainly the Drew legacy is worth something at the national level. This is a golden arrow in Valpo's quiver. Let's utilize it!
However, the job of an athletic director,akin to a CEO in the real world, is to be on the lookout for mergers, acquisitions and services that would enhance the BRAND. Being a member of the Horizon league is not enhancing the Valpo BRAND.
As a start, I'd have lunch with Barry Collier, Butler AD, at St Elmos and ask him how they did it. Why did they get the calls? How did they broker a deal. Today, being a Division 1 AD is more than about ordering uniforms and making sure the mascot has a big head!
They must be businessmen first and foremost. I'm not sure who our AD is and where he came from, but I hope he has atleast an MBA...

Welcome to the board!  I am not sure how long you have been following VU sports, your knowledge of the athletic history seems a little weak, but I think it would be good for some of the posters here to give a little history as to what has happened in the sports department since the late 90's. I will try and get things started (historyman and others please jump in). We probably did miss the boat following the sweet sixteen year and could have used that to move to a higher profile conference, I will agree with you there.  Most of that situation had to do with the administration and the relationship between our AD Dr. William Steinbrecher and his son Dr. Jon Steinbrecher who was commissioner of the old Mid-Continent Conference.  For more history on this and some of the passion involved with the move to the Horizon League go to http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=valposports&action=display&thread=2700&page=1 and http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=valposports&action=display&thread=509 even more http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=valposports&action=display&thread=3505. The Horizon League is a much higher profile conference than the Mid-Con/Summit League.  We moved from a conference that traditionally had a RPI in the low 20's range to a conference that was about 10 slots higher, a huge improvement.  We went from a conference that was spread out over thousands of miles to a conference where most trips are within 250 miles or less from Valpo, another huge improvement for our student athletes. I think most of the posters here would agree that, with the possible exception of football, we have done a better job of hiring  and or retaining higher quality coaches for almost all of our sports.  I am not sure what stations you have available to watch but close to half of our games were on major television networks such as Fox Sports, ESPN Family of Networks or CBS with most of the rest being on the Horizon League Network on the internet.  6 of our last 8 games alone were on ESPN or CBS. The Horizon League "Brand" is much better than what we had previously and lest you forget Butler, whom you site in your posts, was in the MCC/Horizon from 1979-2012.  Should Mark LaBarbera be on the lookout for new ways to market the Valpo Brand, certainly.  Mark has a reputation for being proactive and has changed the face of VU sports significantly since he took this position.  With the recent appearances of the bowling, softball, baseball and men's basketball in the NCAA tournaments the Valpo athletic brand is in better shape than anytime in the last 10-12 years.  The recent advertising campaigns by Unilever AXE Apollo and Lowes have put VU in front of millions of people during the NCAA tournament.  With continued athletic success, alumni backing and administrative support for facilities upgrades, VU should be poised to move in the proper direction. 

[VU72too]

Thank you all for the background of the last decade. I truly enjoyed this dialogue. And you are correct, I don't live and die for VU athletics with the exception of BBall and it intensifies after Jan. 1 each year!
I realize the athletic program is more than just basketball, and agree that ALL the programs have been taken up a notch with one exception and I'm sure there is a post somewhere to dump foorball, but I won't go there.
I  will admit, I am guilty of being Eastcoast centric, but also see how schools have turned things around for the campus in general not just the athletic department by being very promotionally minded. Valpo, who? is a common refrain, oh yea "The shot"...thankfully reprised by the NCAA each March and now by AXE.
Our Alumni donations and word of mouth only go so far when attracting a diverse student body and individuals with athletic prowess to boot... All of my children played D1 sports in college, and never gave VU a look.
With perhaps the exception of the Midwest, little is known about the schools in the Horizon League especially by high school coaches, and you are correct that Mid-Con was worse...but waiting for that single bid to the dance  makes it tough competition I'm sure...
Carry on the good fight...BTW Bill Steinbrenner was my dorm supervisor, so my sports history is a bit more ancient than most...
See you all next January

[usc4valpo]

I'm curious. What facility improvements did Butler do to enhance its success? They are just now raising money to improve Hinkle. They sure did pay Stevens--a million a year. Not to diminish Stevens in any way, but Butler's success was tied to getting very lucky with Hayward and Matt Howard (who was highly regarded) but not to the level he achieved as well as that other guard who is now also in the NBA. They were very good this year and made the dance because of the play of Rotnei Clark. How they do next year with he and Smith will be very interesting.

Brad Stevens is one of the best coaches in the country - period.  What he has done at Butler is short of miraculous.  THey do not get 4 and 5 star players like the Big 10 and ACC schools get.  His teams are very well coached and they get players who are not head cases.

My feeling that since Butler is in the Big East,   they will recruit better and they will be fine.  They will not be in cellar since DePaul is there. 

[usc4valpo]

FWAlum - that was an excellent analysis you presented.  It will  be interesting to see what the AD does with football to see how it fit in with the entire athletic portfolio at VU.   He has done a decent job, and it was overdue that they got out of the Mid-Con.    It will be interesting to see the next steps.

[historyman]

Welcome to the board!  I am not sure how long you have been following VU sports, your knowledge of the athletic history seems a little weak, but I think it would be good for some of the posters here to give a little history as to what has happened in the sports department since the late 90's. I will try and get things started (historyman and others please jump in). We probably did miss the boat following the sweet sixteen year and could have used that to move to a higher profile conference, I will agree with you there.  Most of that situation had to do with the administration and the relationship between our AD Dr. William Steinbrecher and his son Dr. Jon Steinbrecher who was commissioner of the old Mid-Continent Conference.  For more history on this and some of the passion involved with the move to the Horizon League go to http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=valposports&action=display&thread=2700&page=1 and http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=valposports&action=display&thread=509 even more http://valpofans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=valposports&action=display&thread=3505. The Horizon League is a much higher profile conference than the Mid-Con/Summit League.  We moved from a conference that traditionally had a RPI in the low 20's range to a conference that was about 10 slots higher, a huge improvement.  We went from a conference that was spread out over thousands of miles to a conference where most trips are within 250 miles or less from Valpo, another huge improvement for our student athletes. I think most of the posters here would agree that, with the possible exception of football, we have done a better job of hiring  and or retaining higher quality coaches for almost all of our sports.  I am not sure what stations you have available to watch but close to half of our games were on major television networks such as Fox Sports, ESPN Family of Networks or CBS with most of the rest being on the Horizon League Network on the internet.  6 of our last 8 games alone were on ESPN or CBS. The Horizon League "Brand" is much better than what we had previously and lest you forget Butler, whom you site in your posts, was in the MCC/Horizon from 1979-2012.  Should Mark LaBarbera be on the lookout for new ways to market the Valpo Brand, certainly.  Mark has a reputation for being proactive and has changed the face of VU sports significantly since he took this position.  With the recent appearances of the bowling, softball, baseball and men's basketball in the NCAA tournaments the Valpo athletic brand is in better shape than anytime in the last 10-12 years.  The recent advertising campaigns by Unilever AXE Apollo and Lowes have put VU in front of millions of people during the NCAA tournament.  With continued athletic success, alumni backing and administrative support for facilities upgrades, VU should be poised to move in the proper direction. 

I think you did a fine job and that's plenty of info for a poster who says he follows Valpo basketball but doesn't know much about it's history of conference affiliation. I think his biggest issue maybe that he listens to too many east coast writers (much like setshot) and because they don't do much on the Horizon League on the east coast he feels the Horizon League isn't good enough for where he wants Valpo to be.