Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VULB#62]

I'm just dubious of the notion that the MVC knows how to spend Valpo's money to improve their basketball team more than Valpo themselves. Are valpo recruits really concerned about the seating situation at the arena, and choosing to attend Bradley and Drake instead?

I don't think it's the MVC telling Valpo how to spend its own money to improve their [Valpo's] basketball program.  I think the MVC does have some sway with respect to how it wants its conference and the member teams to reflect the MVC brand and the image they want to project. Just like they should mandate OOC scheduling rules.

And from the Valpo side and recruiting, every little, tiny thing we can do to show an even greater, but fiscally reasonable commitment (be that air conditioning in Hilltop or replacement of all the seating in the main spectator area), could mean the difference between getting that 4* kid who, when all is even up, might choose the better arena to play in.  Winning is in the details -- the great coaches are fanatics about every detail, so are the great players  (re: Alec's attention to detail for the last 4 years) and it's what makes programs great.  IMO these are details that need to be addressed and having the MVC put a little pressure on Valpo to go in that direction should be welcomed.

[VU2014]

If the MVC did require Valpo to make upgrades then I'm not sure Heckler or the Board would oblige them unless they were minor improvements.

It sounds like the first step for the University is the Student Rec Center and then the upgrades to the ARC. The giant fundraising efforts for the University has been doing has ZERO $ going towards the Rec Center or ARC improvements. The fundraising for these projects have been left completely to the Athletics Department to do and as Mark LaBarbera has stated recently that he has been unable to find a 'Lead Donor' for the Student Rec Center yet.

The Student Rec Center should be a University effort since it an amenity/selling point to ALL potential students and not just the Athletics Department.

The commitment to modern, upscale facilities was a big selling point for Loyola 4 years ago. Missouri State's President said as much publicly. In fact, he said that Loyola's commitment to facilities was by far superior to the other candidate schools (that means Valpo).

Now, fast forward 4 years. Only 3 weeks ago ml was quoted as saying that not only is there no plan for upgrading the ARC, that he and mh haven't even discussed it. The only "plan" they have is install A/C in Hilltop and fix the roof. That means they don't have a vision, strategy, financial plan, roadmap, timeline, or anything else necessary to even begin the process of upgrading the ARC. IMO if anything blows this opportunity to move to the MVC, this will be it. If the search committee was turned off 4 years ago by the University's lack of commitment to raising the profile of its flagship sport, imagine how they're feeling now.

The bottom line is this. If they're simply looking for the best available men's bb program, we're a shoe-in. If, however, they're using the same scorecard metrics from 4 years ago - best program, University commitment, and access to new markets - we're dead.

By the way, it doesn't matter if we think these other considerations are unimportant, it only matters what they think.

Yes the lack of progress or effort by President Heckler to see the need to make improvements to the ARC are a little frustrating but is not going to be the main significantly hurt Valpo's chances this time around from what I've heard.

The main priority for the MVC is getting the schools with the best basketball competitive schools that are within the geographic region of the MVC. And also getting schools that fit the MVC culture (Valpo fits perfectly). Yes the MO St president made those comments on Loyola's facilities back in the day but that was not the main factor in inviting Loyola. It was the Market of Chicago (which hasn't worked the way they've hoped it would). If WSU left before Creighton then the MVC likely would have taken UIC over Loyola that time. (WSU is Public and Creighton is Private).

The MO St was just trying to sell/justify the Loyola invite. When people are trying to justify anything in life they will point to whatever they can to sell people on something. Was Loyola's facilities a factor? Yes but it wasn't the main reason they got an invite. If we switched facilities with Loyola they would have still have probably picked Loyola over us because of the market. At that point in the MVC history they were looking to expand to larger markets (ex: Belmont was apparently rumored to have been offered privately but they didn't have interest in the MVC because OVC is very low travel and they could be "kings" of that conference.) It actually helps Valpo that the MVC picked Loyola last time because we are a perfect travel partner with them which means it will save MVC schools $ on travel costs and make scheduling pretty easy.

Will facilities be factored in the decision this time around? Yes but its mostly likely not the reason why schools will get an invite.

I agree we need upgrade facilities though and badly need a Student Rec Center. It baffles me the ignorance the administration has towards the need. Academics will and always be first at Valparaiso University (as it should be) but a self standing Student Rec Center is a standard facility at every 21st century University these days. I've said it before that it is a selling point to potential students.

As for upgrades to the ARC I'd love to see facility improvements not only to improve fans/paying customers experience (which may give a small boost to attendance if the ARC got a facelift) but mainly to attract the BEST recruits Valpo possibly can. I want recruits to be "impressed" (not unimpressed*) when they walk into the ARC or see their player facilities (practice facilities/weight room/training room/locker-room/offices/press-media room and concourse). To be honest I personally could careless about my own comfort and fan experience (but that may just be me). All I want to see is the best possible basketball product on the floor and an engaged and energized crowd.

Better facilities = better recruits = Winning = Better attendance/More Revenue/Boost Alumni Morale (= more donations for the University)

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/855878067528630276

https://cbbcentral.wordpress.com/2017/04/22/what-should-the-missouri-valley-do/

WHAT SHOULD THE MISSOURI VALLEY DO?
By Kevin Sweeney

With Wichita State departing the Missouri Valley Conference for the American Athletic Conference earlier this month, "The Valley" has a big question to answer:

"Do we need to add more teams?"

The answer to that question is most certainly "yes". In a time in which it is harder than ever for mid-majors to get at-large bids (as the MVC saw itself this season with Illinois State), losing your premiere program without replacing it would be disastrous for the long-term future of the league. Without Wichita State, the Missouri Valley seems destined to be a one-bid league the vast majority of years unless it can add more teams to the fray.

So, who could join the Missouri Valley?

Murray State
Murray State seems like the most likely candidate to join the MVC. ..... (should read the rest)

Valparaiso
Another very logical potential addition, Valparaiso shares many of the same qualities as Murray State (other than being a private school). .....

UW-Milwaukee
UWM is a relatively new candidate to join the discussion. owever, they make a ton of sense as an MVC addition.....

Belmont
Early in the process, it seemed like Belmont was a frontrunner to leave the Ohio Valley and join the Missouri Valley.....

Highly encourage you to give the whole article a read. Kevin Sweeney does great work and is pretty in the know about MidMajor Basketball.

[valpopal]

[tweet]855878067528630276[/tweet]

https://cbbcentral.wordpress.com/2017/04/22/what-should-the-missouri-valley-do/

WHAT SHOULD THE MISSOURI VALLEY DO?
By Kevin Sweeney

With Wichita State departing the Missouri Valley Conference for the American Athletic Conference earlier this month, "The Valley" has a big question to answer:

"Do we need to add more teams?"

The answer to that question is most certainly "yes". In a time in which it is harder than ever for mid-majors to get at-large bids (as the MVC saw itself this season with Illinois State), losing your premiere program without replacing it would be disastrous for the long-term future of the league. Without Wichita State, the Missouri Valley seems destined to be a one-bid league the vast majority of years unless it can add more teams to the fray.

So, who could join the Missouri Valley?

Murray State
Murray State seems like the most likely candidate to join the MVC. ..... (should read the rest)

Valparaiso
Another very logical potential addition, Valparaiso shares many of the same qualities as Murray State (other than being a private school). .....

UW-Milwaukee
UWM is a relatively new candidate to join the discussion. owever, they make a ton of sense as an MVC addition.....

Belmont
Early in the process, it seemed like Belmont was a frontrunner to leave the Ohio Valley and join the Missouri Valley.....

Highly encourage you to give the whole article a read. Kevin Sweeney does great work and is pretty in the know about MidMajor Basketball.

One error in the article: he writes, "Divide the programs into two divisions by geography to play an 18 game conference schedule (play teams in division twice and outside division once)." If there are six teams in each division and you play the other five in your division twice plus the six in the other division once, that adds to a 16-game conference schedule.

[VULB#62]

He also says it would maintain the equal divide between public and private -- actually, it would then be 5 private and 7 public (42% private).  With WSU it was 6-4 (40% private).   It certainly is a better situation for us vis a vis fellow privates than the HL.

And on a personal note, I like UWM over UNO and UMKC because of familiarity, a past history of success, a good chance (if the AD doesn't blow it) of a reinvigoration of MKE fan support, it's got lots of VU alums, and the fact that, for me, it's just a 90 minute drive to see Valpo play.  Braun 's job hinges on the next 3 years.  The UWM BB program will get everything it needs to allow her to keep her job.  I believe even Jimmy will concede that.

Even as it is today, they put out a pretty good game day product at the Panther Arena.  Good Pep Band (faculty conductor), polished dancers and cheerleaders,  they do a ton of time out promotions that keep the fan interest up throughout the event AND they serve BEER!  We should take notes and steal some of that.  They just need to recover from Braun's decimation of the program.

[VULB#62]

If we do get the invite.  If we accept. Little Valpo will be in for the fight of our lives to maintain the level of excellence we've managed to reach up to this point.  We'd be starting all over again in a new conference, just like we did in the HL.  But isn't that how you want to go through life? 

I have a plaque in our family room.  It says: 

Life should not be a
journey to the grave
with the intention
of arriving safely in an
attractive, well preserved
body, but rather it
should be skidding sideways,
body thoroughly used up,
totally worn out and screaming,
"WOO, HOO what a ride!"

Maybe Valpo could apply just a little of that here.

[VU2014]

And on a personal note, I like UWM over UNO and UMKC because of familiarity, a past history of success, a good chance (if the AD doesn't blow it) of a reinvigoration of MKE fan support, it's got lots of VU alums, and the fact that, for me, it's just a 90 minute drive to see Valpo play.  Braun 's job hinges on the next 3 years.  The UWM BB program will get everything it needs to allow her to keep her job.  I believe even Jimmy will concede that.

Even as it is today, they put out a pretty good game day product at the Panther Arena.  Good Pep Band (faculty conductor), polished dancers and cheerleaders,  they do a ton of time out promotions that keep the fan interest up throughout the event AND they serve BEER!  We should take notes and steal some of that.  They just need to recover from Braun's decimation of the program.

@PantherU has been tweeting that many fans have not liked the move to the Klotsche Center.

Valpo's Athletics Department FAR and away is superior at putting the best product on the court (at least in Basketball, volleyball, baseball, & soccer) but we could definitely take notes on the game day experience of the Panthers basketball.

Like you said:
-Good Pep Band (faculty conductor)
-polished dancers and cheerleaders
-ton of time out promotions
-they serve BEER

Really wish they'd start selling beer. Its the 21st century (I could careless if Valpo is "Dry Campus" ), but it'd be a revenue generator and it caters to the casual fan which is what Valpo needs. It doesn't break our school values or ethics or anything. A lot of schools are starting to serve beer at games now. Valpo FINALLY started having a beer tent and started serving alcohol during Homecoming to Alumni. Very smart move by the administration but a bit over due on their part.

Random Note: Did anyone else see that Oakland is "combining" their Dance Team and their Cheer Team? Apparently its causing a uproar at their school. Many OU alumni/fans think its a sign that OU is making cuts to their Athletics. There is no two way about it. They are "combining" the two too save $$, but it will be interesting to if its making budget cuts or reallocating those funds elsewhere in the Athletics.

I bring this up because a) we are talking briefly about game day experience for fans & b) if they are making cuts that could potentially affect the conference's competitiveness.

https://oaklandpostonline.com/16711/sports/athletics-preaches-innovation-in-decision-to-combine-cheer-and-dance-teams/

Athletics preaches innovation in decision to combine cheer and dance teams
Melissa Deatsch, Sports Editor
April 19, 2017

A shocking change to Oakland University Athletics came on April 19, when the department announced the combining of the cheer and dance teams to form one spirit squad.

"What we're looking for is a highly energetic add to our game presentation," Athletics Director Jeff Konya said. "Student-athletes that can help us with marketing and promotions and really be a driving force in our game-day atmosphere."

This change puts the emphasis on the game-day experience, rather than the competitions that have been a large focus for both teams in the past.

"It's really going to be more about the in-game and performance elements and trying to align what our fans love about the spirit squads, but give them the freedom and innovation to recraft and reimage what those performances are going to look like," Konya said.

The teams learned of the decision on Wednesday evening, and the idea was not met with strong support from many of the student-athletes.

[UNIFTW]

And....correct me if I'm wrong, but is the MVC now going after Murray St and Milwaukee but not Valpo?  Or am I just paranoid we are being left out for those guys?

From what I can ascertain, the UWM rumor is mainly spinning off the MVCFAN board posts.

It's actually seeming to come from beat writers of the MVC and Murray State. I've seen references to it from Murray State, Indiana State, SIU and brief potential mention from UNI (who is an Indiana State alum)

I'm not sure I buy it yet, but there appears to be a smolder behind it. I wouldn't be shocked if Valpo and Murray were this year and a 12th was a year behind.

As for the arena upgrades: I don't care about expanding your capacity. If you can fill 5,000 then have 5,000. Though I'd guess filling 5,000 against UWGB and Youngstown State probably means 6.500 against UNI, Illinois State, Loyola, etc... is possible but so be it.

As I said earlier, I think the main concern upfront would be making it look like a D1 arena and not a large HS gym. New seats. Better lighting. I have no idea what the score board looks like.  You would be shocked the difference modern lights and new seat backs would make in just making. The place feel brand new. Maybe a fresh coach of paint. I know your school colors are brown and yellow, but every game I watch on TV/photo o see the facility has a yellow and brown tint in the air. Not in the "school color" way but in the dark and old school lighting kind of way.

Drakes Knapp center isn't great. But they recently replaced the lights and upgraded the lower level seats and it looks brand new inside the seating area. It was all cosmetic but makes a big difference.

Old knapp


Upgraded seating, lights scoreboard and court not stained with a yellow base stain

Has it really made a *big* difference? Drake has lost 70 games in the past 3 years. They've literally declined in attendance every year for the past ten years.

I'm just dubious of the notion that the MVC knows how to spend Valpo's money to improve their basketball team more than Valpo themselves. Are valpo recruits really concerned about the seating situation at the arena, and choosing to attend Bradley and Drake instead?

Drake has hired garbage coach after garbage coach. So no, it hasn't translated to wins. Facilities help but don't create wins simply by looking nice.

The Valley is all about how things are presented. I'm not concerned that the facility is costing Valpo any recruits. It's when Valpo gets the home ESPN game in Jan/Feb against UNI that the arena doesn't look dark, dank, and old on national TV. I wouldn't be shocked if there is discussion regarding it. This is important to the MVC, be it right or wrong. MSUs president wasn't just blowing smoke when he said Loyolas commitment to the facility was important. I have well connected sources that echoed the same thing. Sadly, it caused us to add the wrong school, in haste, last time.

What it looks like in person is/can be very different than TV and photos. Every game and photo I've seen in the ARC has that feel. It doesn't match the product I see on the court, which is disappointing. Due to the colors of the program it takes extra lighting effort in the facility to counter that.

UNI


MSU


Siu


ISUR


Bradley


ISUB-getting a 70m renovation


Evansville


Even Loyola is small but upgraded.

It's worth noting that when the arena is smaller the "presentation" counts for more than larger arenas. ARC would be the second smallest arena by over 2k seats, a head of only Loyola in size. Murray State is 8,600 and is a bigger, nicer, version of the Knapp.

Please don't take this as "I hate VU and don't want you in". Quite the opposite. I would like MUSU and VU. That means I want the arenas I will be watching in TV to look as nice as possible.

So while upgrades may not break the deal the unwillingness to commit to getting to "average" in the MVC could be a turn off for some.

[VULB#62]

Here's another OU rumor (started by me right now):  Their "blacktop" playing surface will be even darker -- they are removing the stained wood surface and replacing it with state-of-the-art asphalt with computer-programmed and -designed cracks and hollows.  In phase two, the nylon nets will be replaced with chain nets.

Snarkiness aside, depending on how they do it, it could be thinking outside the box that could produce an entirely different and positive game experience.  Or not.

[VULB#62]

UNIFTW -- great pics.  BTW, I'm saying this with a smile and no animosity, UNI's court picture has the most yellowish court.   

Yours is my argument as well.  The MVC has the right to demand certain standards for membership. It's just like a Valpo fraternity/sorority -- they take a certain type of kid.  Let's face it, education is a business.  Valpo wants to improve in all aspects of its profile according to its mission statements.  I believe it is not onerous to expect that if we want to move up to the next level that we should shoulder the burden of meeting minimal standards set by that level. That would apply if we wanted to jump to the next level in meteorological research. 

We, without a doubt, bring great basketball to the table.  We did this previously and got away without a lot of facilities investment (except for the new floor and scoreboard). I keep coming back to a one-time initial VISIBLE investment of new lower level chairbacks all around as the most logical way to provide that "TV presence" you refer to.

BTW UNIFTW, you have to watch the 2016 game against St. Mary's in the NIT to understand what a rockin place the ARC can be.  The crowd is right on top of the action.  It can be miserable for visiting teams (ask Florida State, URI and of course, St. Mary's) .  Here is the link.  Just go to the last 3 minutes.  Then imagine what it will be to have MVC teams punked into that atmosphere (and on TV).  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-5QzOSVS2Q

[UNIFTW]

Better photo of the McLeod. Shows the difference the stain used on the court makes. This was our court until 2015



Again, I'm not questioning the on court production or that a place that size can rock when full.

I can also tell you we've been on ESPN dozens of times the last few years and every game there is none of the yellow color

[FieldGoodie05]

If we do get the invite.  If we accept. Little Valpo will be in for the fight of our lives to maintain the level of excellence we've managed to reach up to this point.  We'd be starting all over again in a new conference, just like we did in the HL.  But isn't that how you want to go through life? 

I have a plaque in our family room.  It says: 

Life should not be a
journey to the grave
with the intention
of arriving safely in an
attractive, well preserved
body, but rather it
should be skidding sideways,
body thoroughly used up,
totally worn out and screaming,
"WOO, HOO what a ride!"

Maybe Valpo could apply just a little of that here.

How does our MBB budget compare in the MVC and in HL?  Do we need to increase our budget to compete in the MVC? 

Or does our current annual budget with 1x expenses to seating and a few other items in a timely manner designate the only cost increase?

[UNIFTW]

Budget your about 5th or so at 2.66m. I've heard Murray State, currently at like 2.28m, tell the conference they are willing to get to UNI/Bradley/Evansville levels which is 2.99-3.01

[VU2014]

And....correct me if I'm wrong, but is the MVC now going after Murray St and Milwaukee but not Valpo?  Or am I just paranoid we are being left out for those guys?

From what I can ascertain, the UWM rumor is mainly spinning off the MVCFAN board posts.

There are actual "legs" to the UWM rumors. It's not just Message Board Chatter.

It's actually being passed along or acknowledged by credible MVC media members.

But to be honest a lot the rumors start when lower staff members (schools athletics department) hear something (maybe even misinterpreting things) and talk to someone causing chain of the game telephone. But apparently people are hearing their name a little more.

https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/855558194403438592
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/855628597075341312

[VULB#62]

There is some very thoughtful sh&% being thrown around this forum. I hope that both MVC and Valpo decision makers are secretly looking at this stuff and factoring the logic and ideas into strategy and actions.   

I'm not kidding, this could mean a significant alteration in both the future of the MVC and Valpo.  I'm hoping one or both entities don't blow it.

[VU2014]

Budget your about 5th or so at 2.66m. I've heard Murray State, currently at like 2.28m, tell the conference they are willing to get to UNI/Bradley/Evansville levels which is 2.99-3.01

Yep we'd be middle of the pack. Currently we are 2nd highest in the Horizon League (slightly behind Detroit) but I'd imagine if we made the jump the MVC we'd have a slightly larger budget since there is more $ in the MVC then the HL. Murray States budget would likely rise as well.

I was on twitter the other day and jimmy tweet a few (well a lot*) interesting thing about how Murray State would fund the leap to the MVC if they were to get an invite. They would potentially funding the move (buy-out/entry-fee/increased travel costs) by raising tuition prices on students. I'm not sure that would fly at Valpo. I don't think we will need to do that.

Just in case anyone was wondering the buy-out of the HL is $500,000 I guess. The OVC buy-out is $1M (!) ouch (that seems particularly cruel) and on top of that Murray State would have to forfeit its shares if they did not inform the OVC within 2 years of leaving (brutal).

https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855447528673816576
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855448384487948288
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855448640588066817
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855448872524664832
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855449329825439745
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855449688891326464
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855451023619624961
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855451403069870081
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855452892102262784
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855453131399983104
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855453389383139329
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855453509419970560
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855453959141691393
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855454566501974018
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855460912370786305
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855461495022465025
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855461813550538753
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855462343416979456
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855462720975626241
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855463026962681857
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855463775868268546
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/855514163082387456

[VULB#62]

Holy cow 14 

But Jimmy's tweets are just smoke.  Murray will (or have ) run the numbers and if they are prepared to accept a bid, they will do what it takes.

We know that Murray has already taken steps.  But has UWM run their numbers yet?  I wonder.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/855953335123423232

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/todd-aaron-golden-time-to-embrace-for-the-mvc/article_e20de4a2-27be-11e7-aa9e-4fc1de9d49d8.html

TODD AARON GOLDEN: Time to embrace 12 for the MVC

By Todd Aaron Golden Tribune-Star

If you've followed the Missouri Valley Conference for any length of time, the operative number everything has been based upon is 10.

A ten-school MVC has been the lay of the land in the Valley since 1991, other than 1996 when Tulsa and Evansville were ships passing in the MVC night.

Ten teams has worked well for the MVC and certainly worked to its advantage in its mid-2000s heyday when there were good matchups on the league slate nearly every night, which maintained a good league RPI. The MVC has long championed its round-robin basketball schedule as a league strength and there's plenty of fans around the MVC who feel the same.

Ten teams served its purpose, but times have changed. The disadvantage of ten has been borne out in the last months with Wichita State's dalliance with and then departure for the American Athletic Conference.

Most of the remaining nine teams in the MVC are currently below their typical historical men's basketball performance norms.

....

There's a way a 12-team, 18 or 20-game schedule can be done without having to go to divisions. For scheduling purposes only, split the 12 teams into three groups of four by geography.

For example, let's say Valparaiso, Murray State and Milwaukee are the schools added to the MVC. You could group schools as thus (teams are ranked in last season's Kenpom order):

Group A — Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Evansville, Murray State

Group B — Illinois State, Northern Iowa, Bradley, Drake

Group C — Loyola, Valparaiso, Indiana State, Milwaukee

......

Give the rest a click/read

Todd has some interesting ideas:

https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/855652149300269057
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/855653261696782336
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/855653857321508864
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/855654228341161984
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/855656614015234050

[vu72]

This whole "millage" thing rings true of "mid-major"/"low major" in today's basketball world.  Do you think for a moment Creighton things about transporting their women's basketball team to the East Coast?  Do you think Butler has the same concerns?  If we are going to raise our profile we are going to step it up on many levels.  If the Missouri Valley doesn't work then we need to target the A-10. 

[UNIFTW]

The OVCs buy out isn't an issue for MSU. They approved a 1.46 million dollar slush fund for athletics almost exclusively for the exit fee.

[VULB#62]

The possible MVC footprint with Valpo, Murray and UWM  is quite compact compared to the A10 and Big East. It is  a true "major" MIDWEST MID-MAJOR conference. This would be a really great thing.

[VU2014]

The A-10 already has 14 teams in the Conference. Its the best Mid-Major Conference in the country. (The Big East is up there with the P5 to make the P6, imo).

They are top heavy with teams like VCU, Dayton, Rhode Island, University of Richmond, SLU, Davidson. All very good Basketball programs but there is some fat in that conference that A10 fans have been complaining about: Duquesne, Fordham, La Salle (only made Tourney once in its A10 history). But to be honest that is first world mid-major problems and I'd say those schools have potential especially based on the league they compete in. It's not like they have a YSU or Cleveland State in their conference.

I just don't see where there is room for us. The only way I see the A10 expanding is if the Big East expands and invites SLU/Dayton (which what those schools really want). And if those two schools were to leave the A10 would it really be that attractive? Yes they are still a pretty good conference but it would be a big blow. There have been rumors that VCU is considering going FBS in the future. Not sure there is anything to that though.

There was the rumor that the Detroit reporter reported that said the A10 was making a push for Oakland when they were making the transition from the old Summit to the Horizon League ( ). I'm calling BS. I just can't believe that for so many reasons (not to be harsh). He said that it was Oakland that cut off talks (to pursue the HL)... SMH...

https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/843935739322630144
https://twitter.com/GaryMcCarrick/status/843945746068062209
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/843946357928869889
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/843975137758265344

[wh]

https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/843935739322630144

I just got my hands on the unedited transcript from that phone discussion:

Oakland AD: "Good afternoon, Commissioner.  I've got a quick question for you. Would the A-10 be interested in adding Oakland?"

A-10 Commissioner: "Is this a practical joke?"  (Click)

[justducky]

There's a way a 12-team, 18 or 20-game schedule can be done without having to go to divisions. For scheduling purposes only, split the 12 teams into three groups of four by geography.

For example, let's say Valparaiso, Murray State and Milwaukee are the schools added to the MVC. You could group schools as thus (teams are ranked in last season's Kenpom order):

Group A — Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Evansville, Murray State

Group B — Illinois State, Northern Iowa, Bradley, Drake

Group C — Loyola, Valparaiso, Indiana State, Milwaukee

This is worth some careful thought. In the 18 game proposed format it combines reduced travel with a feature for the better teams to slightly supercharge their SOS and RPI. Year in and year out it might be best to put Illinois St and Northern Iowa in different groups but maybe not.

Question-----     For scheduling simplicity and to allow for open and available facilities would the girls bb programs have to duplicate the mens schedules? If yes then would there be resistance? Obviously the mens and women's group rankings would never perfectly align.

[UNIFTW]

Question-----     For scheduling simplicity and to allow for open and available facilities would the girls bb programs have to duplicate the mens schedules? If yes then would there be resistance? Obviously the mens and women's group rankings would never perfectly align.

I don't know how it works in the HL, but in the MVC MBB plays midweek games on Wednesday's and then half the conference on Saturday and half on Sunday.


Women's plays strictly Thursday/Saturday in conference season.


Mens basketball doesn't ad-hear to "travel partners" due to programs making money and able to fly to mid week games and be home that same night. Women's programs, and volleyball, utilize travel partners to the fullest extent. The reason for Thursday/Friday is they can bus (or fly if long distance) to one place on Thursday AM (or Wed night) and play that day, then spend Friday on a bus to the next location, then head home after. It's a cost savings measure. It's why a program like Oakland, UT-Arlington, NMSU, etc... can be talked about but won't happen.


This is part of the reason 10 worked perfectly. The travel partners have been


SIU/Evansville
ISUr/Bradley
ISUB/Loyola
UNI/Drake
MSU/WSU


This is part, if not largely, the reason 12 is in play. 11 makes travel partners tough for non-revenue sports. 11 would make a nice 20 game conference schedule, but the travel issues would outweigh it.


11 team partners

Missouri State would be alone
UNI/Drake
Valpo/Loyola
Bradley/Illinois State
Indiana State/Evansville
SIU/Murray


I'm guessing that's where Milwaukee comes in. The "potential" of growth there plus travel partners.

Drake/Missouri State-This is the worst one but there's nobody else to put with MSU.--6 hours
UNI/Milwaukee--4 hours
Bradley/Illinois State--90 minutes
Evansville/Indiana State--3 hours
Valpo/Loyola--1 hour
SIU/Murray--90 minutes




The drawback to 12 is unbalanced schedules. There are a billion options but none of them great. The MVC has long pride itself on a double round robin true champion - it's why 11 with a 20 game schedule is still on the table as an option. 12 is the most likely outcome. Maybe not this year but in a year or two. Go to 10 or 11 this year with the known intention of getting to 12 by 2019. I'd almost rather stay 11 now and force those who want the 12th spot to "prove" their worth for a year or two