Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[a3uge]

It's weird Belmont and Murray State aren't targets for the MVC,  but UMKC is...  UMKC just joined the WAC, which may have been the weirdest move ever for them. I can imagine the MVC might consider them a fallback option. Were OVC schools already visited? Are Belmont or Murray State already on board? Are they going to the Horizon? Is Chicago State going to the B1G TEN??

[classof2014]

It's got to be close but the Butler/HL money maybe slightly more. Will the move to the MVC be worth the difference in money?

I think right now like you said it's close. In the future however, I see more money in the MVC with the possibility of being a multi-bid league year-in-year-out, whit the Horizon as of right now is not shaping into a multi-bid league.

[a3uge]

FWIW

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthread.php?15453-Please-don-t-let-this-happen-or-we-need-out-MVC-ASAP

Also Wichita State to the MVC?

[VU75]

It's possible that the Valley is planning on expanding to 12.  If they take more then one Horizon school Valpo would have have to go.

[a3uge]

Evansville
http://thepurplecode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1074&start=30

UNI
http://www.panthernation.com/showthread.php?t=51920&page=5

Seems like other MVC folks aren't against Valpo if it's between the 4, they all hate UMKC, and they like ORU, Belmont, and Murray State.

[classof2014]

I don't see how they could complain about Valpo going to the MVC. Two straight Horizon League regular season titles, including a bid in the tourney. I agree with them UMKC would be terrible. ORU, Belmont, and Murray State aren't bad, all similar schools to Valpo this season. Maybe Valpo was closer to the top of that list this year.

[wh]

Immediately after Creighton announced it was leaving, their Conference office was all over it looking for replacements, with a goal of wrapping up their search by July 1st. The HL, on the other hand, loses Butler a year ago and our conference office is still fumbling around looking for a replacement or replacements. By waiting to act, it has created an elongated period of uncertainty, making the HL more vulnerable to other conferences picking off its best programs and less attractive to potential replacements.  It's the difference between being proactive and reactive.  As the expression goes, 'He who hesitates is lost.'  I hope I'm wrong, but it's appearing more and more that LeCrone has fumbled the ball.

[classof2014]

Immediately after Creighton announced it was leaving, their Conference office was all over it looking for replacements, with a goal of wrapping up their search by July 1st. The HL, on the other hand, loses Butler a year ago and our conference office is still fumbling around looking for a replacement or replacements. By waiting to act, it has created an elongated period of uncertainty, making the HL more vulnerable to other conferences picking off its best programs and less attractive to potential replacements.  It's the difference between being proactive and reactive.

You hit the nail on the head. I think the HL will begin to see the repercussions of doing nothing after Butler left, except say woe is me. The possibility of Valpo leaving along with the possibility of a few others, might be the demise of the HL. All in all, after long time tenant Butler, like wh said, the HL did absolutely jack, instead of going out trying to fill the vacancy.

[a3uge]

Missouri state a bit bitter toward Valpo
http://www.bear-nation.com/forum/threads/whats-next-for-the-valley-as-creighton-hits-the-road.14343/page-3

General MVC thread
http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3029&start=12

Indiana State seems to hate all the teams mentioned
http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?23818-MVC-expansion-down-to-4-candidates/page44

Seriously it's the lower RPI teams that have the most negative things to say. Why don't they focus on improving their own teams before bashing programs that are better than them? I would be happy if the HL was able to add a top 100 RPI tourney team, especially if Valpo was sitting over 100 RPI.

[Dave_2010]

From a purely cultural perspective, the MVC is a significantly better fit for Valpo than the Horizon League ever was (especially after Butler left). Across the board, schools in the Valley are in smaller markets than HL schools, but they are typically the focal point in terms of fan interest in that city. On the other hand, the HL is primarily made up of large, urban commuter schools with little media coverage in their (admittedly) larger media markets.

Playing games in the major markets of the Great Lakes region is fine, but If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, did it make a sound? That's kind of how I feel about playing a great deal of our HL road games. If you play Cleveland State in front of 2,000 people and 10,000 empty seats, did you really play a meaningful game in the Cleveland market? Or, would you be better off pitching playing in a smaller market, but in front of more people night in and night out?

[classof2014]

Agreed. Valpo really is the only basketball school left in the HL. Some teams have had some success but none sustained like Valpo did during the 90s and early 00s and I believe this incoming class can mark the beginning of the Valpo basketball tradition once again. The ARC was full for the most part this season but there were really no games (besides Detroit) that were marquis home games. If we did join the MVC: Wichita St, Indiana St, Evansville, Illinois State, and Northern Iowa, would be exciting games to watch as a fan and the intrastate teams definitely helps the case for the move to the MVC.

[justducky]

A jump to the MVC might make better sense from a travel standpoint if they were to pick up 3 schools and go with two divisions of six teams. Who those other two schools might be is a different topic of debate.

This is a perfect time for all of the mid-major Conferences to think big and bold. Once all this dust settles things might be set in stone for the next decade.

[historyman]

Missouri state a bit bitter toward Valpo http://www.bear-nation.com/forum/threads/whats-next-for-the-valley-as-creighton-hits-the-road.14343/page-3

It's easy to say that from one post but 2 others are now saying of the 4 locations that are being visited, Valpo is the best of the four. It's a fairly luke warm response from the MO State message board much like the other boards:

   
• Of the 4 schools mentioned I hope Valpo gets the offer to join
  
  TNMSUFAN, Yesterday at 11:48 PM#64
• Sir SciRole Player
  
  TNMSUFAN said: ↑Of the 4 schools mentioned I hope Valpo gets the offer to join
• Same here, but that doesn't mean I'd be all that excited to add Valpo either. At least they have a history of success in men's basketball, though.

[historyman]

Immediately after Creighton announced it was leaving, their Conference office was all over it looking for replacements, with a goal of wrapping up their search by July 1st. The HL, on the other hand, loses Butler a year ago and our conference office is still fumbling around looking for a replacement or replacements. By waiting to act, it has created an elongated period of uncertainty, making the HL more vulnerable to other conferences picking off its best programs and less attractive to potential replacements.  It's the difference between being proactive and reactive.  As the expression goes, 'He who hesitates is lost.'  I hope I'm wrong, but it's appearing more and more that LeCrone has fumbled the ball.

That's an interesting statement since this past summer after Butler announced they were going to the A-10 you posted this:

The HL plans to add 3 teams and announce all 3 teams at once. Don't expect any announcements this summer. I expect we will hear something around conference tournament time next year.

As frustrating as it is to have wait for several more months for an announcement, I can understand the need for it. After what the HL did to Butler, no one is going to tip their hand early and risk getting dealt out of their conference tournament.

I had remembered over the summer that some were advocating waiting till this March to announce 3 additions to the HL but I was surprised to find after reading your statement that one of those posters was you.

[wh]

Immediately after Creighton announced it was leaving, their Conference office was all over it looking for replacements, with a goal of wrapping up their search by July 1st. The HL, on the other hand, loses Butler a year ago and our conference office is still fumbling around looking for a replacement or replacements. By waiting to act, it has created an elongated period of uncertainty, making the HL more vulnerable to other conferences picking off its best programs and less attractive to potential replacements.  It's the difference between being proactive and reactive.  As the expression goes, 'He who hesitates is lost.'  I hope I'm wrong, but it's appearing more and more that LeCrone has fumbled the ball.

That's an interesting statement since this past summer after Butler announced they were going to the A-10 you posted this:

The HL plans to add 3 teams and announce all 3 teams at once. Don't expect any announcements this summer. I expect we will hear something around conference tournament time next year.

As frustrating as it is to have wait for several more months for an announcement, I can understand the need for it. After what the HL did to Butler, no one is going to tip their hand early and risk getting dealt out of their conference tournament.

I had remembered over the summer that some were advocating waiting till this March to announce 3 additions to the HL but I was surprised to find after reading your statement that one of those posters was you.

I never advocated waiting another year to add a replacement for Butler.  Notice the date of my post - July 10, 2012.  By then the HL had already squandered its opportunity to add a new member for the current school year. That being the case, I simply commented that it made sense that under those circumstances we should not expect to hear any early announcements about a replacement school before they play in their conference tournament.  Nothing inconsistent here - 2 completely different points...

Aren't "historymen" supposed to put everything in context before they draw conclusions? 

   

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Sorry, but VU didn't get screwed on seeding. We maybe could have been a 13 at absolute best, but I figured 14 was what we'd get, and that's what we got.

Just because that's what you figured, doesn't make it true.  Here're the cold hard facts:  all the computers and prognosticators (and when I say "all" it means "close to a hundred") had us ahead of Montana, SDSU, dead even with Davidson, and .02 behind NMSU.  We should have been at least 2 spots higher, thus being where we SHOULD have been would have made us a 13, even if we were behind Davidson (who lost to frickin UWM) and NMSU (which probably, yeah).  But we were a 14.  Check BracketMatrix, check CrashingTheDance, etc. etc.  Being where you should have been is fine.  Being ahead of where you should have been (Montana) is being lucky.  Being behind where you should have been is getting screwed.  (And we've been over how much better each line up does, record-wise--it's exponential.)

(Glad I'm not in a relationship with anyone who doesn't know what being screwed is! )

possibility of losing another marquis matchup really hurts.

lol...does that mean no Duquesne rematch?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duquesne_Dukes#Mascot

Once all this dust settles things might be set in stone for the next decade.

Eh...pretty sure people have been saying that after each and every conference realignment since Nebraska to the B1G.

[crusaderjoe]

Again, as I have mentioned before, IMO Valpo's movement or lack thereof will depend upon the public vs. private distinction.  Geography is ancillary since the MVC is reasonably compact as it is.

Let's think outside the box for a moment.  It is potentially possible that VU could remain as the only private school in the HL if LUC moves to the MVC and UDM moves to the A-10.  While the possibility is remote that UDM will move, it still technically exists given that SLU and UD may be moving to the Big East next year.  With that in mind, if LUC moves to the MVC, even if the HL expands, it is almost a guarantee in my mind that UE isn't leaving (if they ever were).  From Valpo's standpoint, whether WSU leaves for the MWC and "weakens" the MVC is irrelevant in this analysis because they are a public school. 

I said two weeks ago that LUC and VU would be excellent private school travel partners in any league. 12 gives VU a better chance at entry than 10, IMO.

And for the record, it is situations like these why you need to put substantial funds toward ARC improvements as they are badly needed and not instead toward a "Welcome Center" that provides only limited exposure.

If VU cares about the public vs. private distinction, it should explore the MVC.  If it does not, stay put. No shame in the HL.

[blackpantheruwm]

The problem for Valpo is that they have major disadvantages compared to the other schools under consideration. The school is small, so it's not like they can just raise student seg fees to cover the costs of moving up conferences. The facilities are poor - sharing the basketball practice court hurts, and the ARC is a pig compared to any building in the MVC.  The area is small as well, with not much room for growth. At most other HL schools - MKE, CSU, Detroit, UIC - a prolonged period of success can grow the attendance at any of them two or three times what it has been at. Valpo has sustained several periods of prolonged success, and it can't even sell out the ARC for a conference championship game.  It's the advantage of being a big state school in a big city - if you're in a good conference or you're winning a lot, people care about you more - that translates into a bigger boost in big cities.  The NWI area just doesn't have the population to support an MVC program long-term.

Unfortunately for my school, we let Andy Geiger come and harpoon our program by moving us back to the Klotsche Center, out of Kareem and Oscar's house. We're not even worthy of consideration unless we have a lease at the Cell.

[Goraiders93]

Hey guys. I asked this question on Raider Nation and no one seems to have a definitive answer. For lack of a better thread to add it to, I'll ask it here. After Kevin ware's injury and heading into the second half of Louisville/Duke at Lucas oil Stadium, I noticed the Horizon League logo on the Louisville locker room sign. Later on I also realized it was being sported in the top left corner of the court where the hosting team usually has its logo. Any of you have the scoop on how we got that there for the elite eight?

[Valpo89]

Hey guys. I asked this question on Raider Nation and no one seems to have a definitive answer. For lack of a better thread to add it to, I'll ask it here. After Kevin ware's injury and heading into the second half of Louisville/Duke at Lucas oil Stadium, I noticed the Horizon League logo on the Louisville locker room sign. Later on I also realized it was being sported in the top left corner of the court where the hosting team usually has its logo. Any of you have the scoop on how we got that there for the elite eight?

The Horizon League staff was in charge of the regional. I'm guessing that had something to do with it.

[Cliston94]

The MVC is an obvious step up from the HL.

If RPI were the be-all and end-all measure of conference success.  (Ask the MWC how that looks/feels right about now.)  It's not, and the entire difference between the two can be pretty much chalked up to OOC scheduling (MWC 5th toughest, HL 29th with all its Purdue Cals and Bowlings Green).  This explains it all when you consider that their OOC record without Creighton (64-43) is only 7 games better than ours (61-54).  They just did it against better teams. And let's stop with "the HL didn't support a better than a 14 seed".  That's ridiculous.  VU got screwed because we got screwed, not because the HL couldn't carry enough water for us.  If it were true that conferences affected seeding, then the Summit (19th) couldn't/shouldn't have gotten SDSU a 13, and Oregon should leave the PAC for a better conference because it only got them a 12. This is going from 12th to 9th or maybe 10th in terms of conferences.  Is it really worth uprooting the kids and upsetting the neighbors and packing up all our stuff just to move into pretty much the same house in a distant neighborhood just to have a pool?  Why not just get a Y membership instead? And again, we'd be playing in towns instead of cities...I've been to Northern Iowa (both the school and the generic cardinal direction).  Let's just say playing MVC 'cities' would be like an entire conference of Youngstown States, just not as fun nor convenient a drive. Make Bradley or ISU and Evansville an offer to come over here.  But don't condemn kids to have to attempt to forge rivalries with the Fighting Salukis now that we finally have some good rivalries going. PS--as far as money, don't forget to calculate how much more you will be spending by making the drive to Wichita rather than Chicago.  Whatever savings will burn up in fuel costs (a little too easily, these days...) and FTR: http://www.mvc-sports.com/television/default/ http://www.mvc-sports.com/media/2012-13/tv/2012-13TV_FullPageAd_1.pdf

Sorry, but VU didn't get screwed on seeding. We maybe could have been a 13 at absolute best, but I figured 14 was what we'd get, and that's what we got. Remember, we lost to Nebraska and Loyola, and our only win of any kind of national note all season was the win at Murray State. I do agree, however, with your point that it wasn't necessarily due to the Horizon being weak. Detroit and Wright State had pretty solid seasons. And I generally agree with your reasons as to why the HL is to be preferred to the MVC.

So which wonderful win did Montana have that made them more deserving of a 13 than Valpo?

I'd say its wins over Weber State were on a par with our win at Murray, and Montana had no losses that were as bad as losing at home to Loyola. Taking an objective view, if it came down between Montana and Valpo for a 13-seed, I'd say Montana ought to have gotten it. The teams that really got screwed on seeding were Oregon, Cal and Mississippi.

[valpo04]

Hey guys. I asked this question on Raider Nation and no one seems to have a definitive answer. For lack of a better thread to add it to, I'll ask it here. After Kevin ware's injury and heading into the second half of Louisville/Duke at Lucas oil Stadium, I noticed the Horizon League logo on the Louisville locker room sign. Later on I also realized it was being sported in the top left corner of the court where the hosting team usually has its logo. Any of you have the scoop on how we got that there for the elite eight?

The Horizon League staff was in charge of the regional. I'm guessing that had something to do with it.

http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1368.msg31139#msg31139

[wh]

The problem for Valpo is that they have major disadvantages compared to the other schools under consideration. The school is small, so it's not like they can just raise student seg fees to cover the costs of moving up conferences. The facilities are poor - sharing the basketball practice court hurts, and the ARC is a pig compared to any building in the MVC.  The area is small as well, with not much room for growth. At most other HL schools - MKE, CSU, Detroit, UIC - a prolonged period of success can grow the attendance at any of them two or three times what it has been at. Valpo has sustained several periods of prolonged success, and it can't even sell out the ARC for a conference championship game.  It's the advantage of being a big state school in a big city - if you're in a good conference or you're winning a lot, people care about you more - that translates into a bigger boost in big cities.  The NWI area just doesn't have the population to support an MVC program long-term.

Unfortunately for my school, we let Andy Geiger come and harpoon our program by moving us back to the Klotsche Center, out of Kareem and Oscar's house. We're not even worthy of consideration unless we have a lease at the Cell.

As someone already mentioned, an invitation to the MVC would likely come with a requirement that the ARC be revamped within a certain timeframe. Unfortunately for the MVC, they can't build in a requirement that Loyola or UIC improve their bottom feeding men's basketball programs and have any assurance that it will happen. That would take a lot of blind faith. If you can't win where you're at the way Valpo, Detroit and Wright State are doing right now, why would anyone trust that you would win at the next level.  Promotions on the job don't work that way, and for the most part promotions in other areas of life don't either. 

I'm still not personally interested in leaving the HL, but not because I think we're not worthy of MVC membership.  We have a proven track record of adding value everywhere we go, and we would do what we have to do to be a fine representative of the MVC.             

[valpotx]

Not even responding to the 'Montana deserved a 13 seed over us' comments anymore, as it is ridiculous.

In regards to student athletes, I imagine that there is a very small percentage of our top recruits that truly care about playing the HL bigger cities.  What most top recruits care about is playing in a top conference, for a top team.  If they have family in these larger cities, that is about the only reason I think they would care about the HL cities.  If you get to play in a top 10 RPI conferece, that is a much bigger draw.

[classof2014]

The NWI area just doesn't have the population to support an MVC program long-term.

I don't see how NWI isn't large enough to support a MVC team. The NWI area has around 800,000 people (Jasper, Lake, LaPorte, Newton, and Porter Counties). Which is much larger than Peoria, Cedar Falls, Evansville. So population of the area doesn't matter all that much to the MVC, in the Horizon we are the smallest in the MVC we would be average if not a bit above.

We also are similar size in enrollment to some of the MVC programs. Drake, Evansville, and Bradley all are around 5,000 students the first two closer to 3,000 which is the same with Valpo and Valpo is in a bigger population area. So, it doesn't effect whether or not the MVC will offer them a spot, in fact it might play a factor in helping Valpo get an offer for the MVC as they see the school is similar to many of their schools.