Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[vu72]

We finally start executing athletic facility upgrades.

How will this happen when no money has been allocated for this? The board of directors may be blowing smoke up many @sses but they couldn't get anything past the MVC selection committee and it really showed. I feel sorry for ML because he was forced into this position. I'm sure many MVC officials probably laughed at their next meeting when discussing Valpo's facilities.

"When did they start promising those students a track?"

"Oh, my God, really?"

Dude, you are really over the top on this.  Loyola was picked because they are in Chicago proper and are private.  The facilities were not all that critical.  Consider the facts: Loyola doesn't have a track either.  Loyola doesn't have a baseball tram let alone a baseball field.  Loyola doesn't have a men's or women's swim team and probably doesn't have a pool.  Loyola has only 13 total sports, 2 of which require no facilities (cross country) and two of which they have to borrow places to practice (track).

Valpo offers 19 sports.  That's more coaches and a bigger comitment to NCAA sports.

So here's my offer:  If Valpo doesn't announce a new fund raising drive that includes a significant athletics component within the next year I'll do something...not sure what yet!    Valpo has now hired a full time major fund raiser for just athletics, who has a significant record of achievement.  They didn't do that because they had no plans for such a drive.

Loyola was not chosen for facilities.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

They probably laughed until they were FITT to be tied.

How will this happen?  It will happen if this encounter served as any kind of a wake-up call.  Let's be glad we still have Bryce and we have this awesome class coming in. 

Another 3 years in the HL will mean another $600K just from B----r, and $1 mil we don't have to pay the HL for leaving, or any $1 mil or so to enter the MVC.  There's your track right there. ($2.6 mil is enough to run the basketball program for a year and a half.)

Downside:  we don't have Loyola to kick around any more.

Also we apparently don't have any alumni like the ones Doonesbury talked about way back when ("but I wanna give a GYM!!!" "I'm sure you do.  We have a lovely facility already.  Now, our CLASSICS department..." "I WANNA GIVE A GYM!!!").

[StlVUFan]

I know for a fact after talking to a main source at ORU, ORU will not get invited to the MVC.

ORU, Valpo, as well as Belmont, Murray State, South Dakota State left off the MVC lineup for LOYOLA. Talk about an incompetent commissioner. They replaced Creighton with Loyola. Let that sink in. If you compare attendance,  facilities, RPI, any metric, it WOULD be the same as if the Horizon replaced Butler with IUPUI. If I were a Wichita State, I would be begging the MW to open the door for them. Why did they rush to add Loyola with better schools on the table? Why not wait a couple years to see if Loyola actually improves? I mean with all their potential and wonderful facilities, it shouldn't take very long to improve...

I follow a Missouri State fan who is definitely pissed about this.  Not sure how important he is, but:

https://twitter.com/Nyghtewynd/status/323988743784636416
https://twitter.com/Nyghtewynd/status/323989007522492416

[crusaderjoe]

We finally start executing athletic facility upgrades.

How will this happen when no money has been allocated for this? The board of directors may be blowing smoke up many @sses but they couldn't get anything past the MVC selection committee and it really showed. I feel sorry for ML because he was forced into this position. I'm sure many MVC officials probably laughed at their next meeting when discussing Valpo's facilities.

"When did they start promising those students a track?"

"Oh, my God, really?"

Dude, you are really over the top on this.  Loyola was picked because they are in Chicago proper and are private.  The facilities were not all that critical.  Consider the facts: Loyola doesn't have a track either.  Loyola doesn't have a baseball tram let alone a baseball field.  Loyola doesn't have a men's or women's swim team and probably doesn't have a pool.  Loyola has only 13 total sports, 2 of which require no facilities (cross country) and two of which they have to borrow places to practice (track).

Valpo offers 19 sports.  That's more coaches and a bigger comitment to NCAA sports.

So here's my offer:  If Valpo doesn't announce a new fund raising drive that includes a significant athletics component within the next year I'll do something...not sure what yet!    Valpo has now hired a full time major fund raiser for just athletics, who has a significant record of achievement.  They didn't do that because they had no plans for such a drive.

Loyola was not chosen for facilities.

You're entitled to your opinion.  I would encourage you to keep thinking that all you want.  Keep justifying it in your head that past spending on academic infrastructure was some sort of overall commitment to upgrading in general--never mind that it nearly abandoned athletics in its totality.  Keep touting the apologists' line with respect to the historical lack of importance of athletic facilities at Valpo.  Do whatever you must to defray the glaring facility issues at Valpo.  Facilities were irrelevant in this discussion anyway.

C'mon, no offense, but those of us who have a clue about Division-I athletics know better than to disregard the issue of athletic facilities in this analysis. 

[classof2014]

Keep justifying it in your head that past spending on academic infrastructure was some sort of overall commitment to upgrading in general--never mind that it nearly abandoned athletics in its totality.

If Valpo truly ignored its athletics explain to me how the basketball team won two straight Horizon League titles, along with soccer, softball, and baseball all winning the Horizon League regular season or Horizon League tournament over the past 2 seasons. Right now, the money and the donations might not be there to upgrade some of the facilities, but with the new hiring I think there will be substantial fundraising to get an upgrade to the facilities. Let's not forget that Heckler sunk millions of dollars in buying the land the hospital is on so he can expand some of the athletic facilities in the future.

To say Valpo has completely ignored their athletics is completely absurd.

[bbtds]

So here's my offer:  If Valpo doesn't announce a new fund raising drive that includes a significant athletics component within the next year I'll do something...not sure what yet!

You sound just like the Valpo board of directors.

"Well, we'll do something! Not sure how we'll pay for it or exactly what, but we'll do something."

The people who should be the most offended by this are the Drews, the Averys, Ryan Broekhoff, Greg Wood, Alec Peters and on and on......

If I was a Valpo student/athlete I would be out protesting.

[bbtds]

Keep justifying it in your head that past spending on academic infrastructure was some sort of overall commitment to upgrading in general--never mind that it nearly abandoned athletics in its totality.

If Valpo truly ignored its athletics explain to me how the basketball team won two straight Horizon League titles, along with soccer, softball, and baseball all winning the Horizon League regular season or Horizon League tournament over the past 2 seasons. Right now, the money and the donations might not be there to upgrade some of the facilities, but with the new hiring I think there will be substantial fundraising to get an upgrade to the facilities. Let's not forget that Heckler sunk millions of dollars in buying the land the hospital is on so he can expand some of the athletic facilities in the future.

To say Valpo has completely ignored their athletics is completely absurd.

ML is a good athletic director. He was able to hire coaches who are really dedicated such as the Drews and the Averys. It wouldn't surprise me if ML was able to get hired by a bigger university with a lot more money in the athletics budget. Real money that isn't just talked about. 

There is no money for those new facilities! Who says they are really going to happen?

[bbtds]

From a Wichita State blogger:

"Potential" is the key word in this saga. Loyola convinced school presidents it is serious about spending more money on athletics and that it has the money to spend. (Did Valpo come close to doing this?)The MVC clearly was not worried about winning Friday's news conference. It is already losing the PR battle this week as fans take a look at Loyola's track record in men's basketball, its odd hiring of Sheryl Swoopes to coach women's basketball (she has no college coaching experience) and its lack of a baseball program.

The Ramblers will enter the MVC facing legions of skeptics who are fearful that they will drag down the conference's basketball stature. Folks on the banks of Lake Michigan must believe they can compete and they are on the clock to prove themselves.[/b]

Read more here: http://blogs.kansas.com/shockwaves/#storylink=cpy

[vu72]

So here's my offer:  If Valpo doesn't announce a new fund raising drive that includes a significant athletics component within the next year I'll do something...not sure what yet!

You sound just like the Valpo board of directors.

"Well, we'll do something! Not sure how we'll pay for it or exactly what, but we'll do something."

The people who should be the most offended by this are the Drews, the Averys, Ryan Broekhoff, Greg Wood, Alec Peters and on and on......

If I was a Valpo student/athlete I would be out protesting.

I didn't say we don't need improved athletic facilities. I think they pieces are in place (including an athletic masterplan and new fund raising hire plus the hospital acquisition) I am saying that if facilities were all the MVC was looking at Loyola sure wouldn't be the right choice.  They have a nice basketball venue with 1000 less seats than the ARC but much easier to take a leak or buy a hotdog.  They have no pool, baseball diamond or track. They have a total of 13 sport teams so their overall comittment to athletics is unproven.   Their overall record since the 60's suck. It wasn't about facilities or athletic funding.

[HC]

It is getting harder and harder to read this board

[a3uge]

It is getting harder and harder to read this board

Are you on a smartphone? There's an app Tapatalk that makes everything much easier to read as previously discussed here: http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=615.0

[HC]

Thanks a3uge...not exactly what I meant though. 

Look fellas, we aren't going to the MVC.  Its not because of lack of resources or lack of facilities.  They chose Loyola.  The HL really didn't lose out on anything by Loyola leaving.  Adding just about anybody to the league is an upgrade over Loyola.  Lets think about who is getting added to the HL since we aren't getting added to the MVC.

[bbtds]

https://www.google.com/maps?q=Loyola+University+Chicago,+Sheridan+%26+Loyola,+Chicago,+IL&hl=en&ll=42.00121,-87.658458&spn=0.003298,0.003449&sll=41.992798,-87.676392&sspn=0.037318,0.055189&geocode=FTUafwId8fbG-inFaztcviwOiDHKxgRPXcFgyA%3BFb_lgAIdOHHG-iEHq83ZWdU5QykrqCKXoNEPiDEHq83ZWdU5Qw&t=h&dirflg=r&ttype=now&noexp=0&noal=0&sort=def&hnear=Sheridan+%26+Loyola&z=18&start=0

Zoom in, you'll see it at Sean Earl Field along Loyola Ave.


Here's Valpo's

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.465306,-87.047693&spn=0.002352,0.003449&t=h&z=18

Zoom in and you'll see what kind of track it is. "Proposed"

[valpotx]

Missouri State's President, who was on the search committee, is saying that Loyola was an easy choice over us and others.

http://blogs.news-leader.com/msu/2013/04/15/smart-loyola-a-unanimous-choice-for-the-valley/

Sounds like Loyola blew us away.  Facilities definitely was a major factor in the decision.  It seems pretty apparent now that our lack of commitment to athletic facility improvement cost us any chance we might have had.

It may have been an easy choice for them to make, but we still own Missouri State in their primary sport 

[valpotx]

I know for a fact after talking to a main source at ORU, ORU will not get invited to the MVC.

Why is that the case?  Did you get any details?  I would have thought that they are better positioned than us for such a move

[classof2014]

Missouri State's President, who was on the search committee, is saying that Loyola was an easy choice over us and others.

http://blogs.news-leader.com/msu/2013/04/15/smart-loyola-a-unanimous-choice-for-the-valley/

Sounds like Loyola blew us away.  Facilities definitely was a major factor in the decision.  It seems pretty apparent now that our lack of commitment to athletic facility improvement cost us any chance we might have had.

It may have been an easy choice for them to make, but we still own Missouri State in their primary sport 

The reason why it was such an easy choice for MO ST was because they knew that they could win at least 2 games next season!!!

Thanks a3uge...not exactly what I meant though. 

Look fellas, we aren't going to the MVC.  Its not because of lack of resources or lack of facilities.  They chose Loyola.  The HL really didn't lose out on anything by Loyola leaving.  Adding just about anybody to the league is an upgrade over Loyola.  Lets think about who is getting added to the HL since we aren't getting added to the MVC.

I agree. If the HL even picks up a mediocre team this offseason, they will be leaps and bounds better than a struggling Loyola squad who showed little to no signs of improvement.

[zvillehaze]

Confirmation from MVC commissioner.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/basketball/college/loyola-chicago-to-join-missouri-valley-conference/article_13c8acbc-7df4-51e5-a964-57fc7dee0046.html

[bbtds]

I agree. If the HL even picks up a mediocre team this offseason, they will be leaps and bounds better than a struggling Loyola squad who showed little to no signs of improvement.

This is what really makes it all the more dissappointing. Valpo had little to no competition for the MVC spot and had nothing to show the MVC officials they they could make a facilities commitment for athletics. The "proposed" track was the icing on the cake. All future Valpo facilities are no more than an idea and a dream. Nothing in the past says they will happen. Why do you all seem to believe they will happen in the future? More promises and proposals?   

"There's been a definite expression of commitment in terms of increased funding for athletics and in facility development," Elgin (Commissioner of the MVC, speaking of Loyola) said. "They're on the cutting edge of facilities, and there's an energy that was palpable. There's a commitment to not only being progressive on the academic side but the athletic front."

[zvillehaze]

The reason why it was such an easy choice for MO ST was because they knew that they could win at least 2 games next season!!!

Is it safe to assume you were still on winter break on January 2, 2013?   

[classof2014]

I agree. If the HL even picks up a mediocre team this offseason, they will be leaps and bounds better than a struggling Loyola squad who showed little to no signs of improvement.

This is what really makes it all the more dissappointing. Valpo had little to no competition for the MVC spot and had nothing to show the MVC officials they they could make a facilities commitment for athletics. The "proposed" track was the icing on the cake. All future Valpo facilities are no more than an idea and a dream. Nothing in the past says they will happen. Why do you all seem to believe they will happen in the future? More promises and proposals?   

"There's been a definite expression of commitment in terms of increased funding for athletics and in facility development," Elgin said. "They're on the cutting edge of facilities, and there's an energy that was palpable. There's a commitment to not only being progressive on the academic side but the athletic front."

Looking back at it now I don't think Valpo ever had a chance before it even began. Elgin probably wanted Loyola from the start and teams like UMKC, UIC, and Valpo were all back ups if Loyola didn't work out. I don't think it had much to do with facilities or athletics, I think it had to do with the market and location. Elgin won't come out and flat out say that, but I can guarantee you he wanted Loyola all along. He has to come up with a reason and the good facilities at Loyola are all but a scapegoat.

The reason why it was such an easy choice for MO ST was because they knew that they could win at least 2 games next season!!!

Is it safe to assume you were still on winter break on January 2, 2013?   

How'd you guess???

[bbtds]

Looking back at it now I don't think Valpo ever had a chance before it even began. Elgin probably wanted Loyola from the start and teams like UMKC, UIC, and Valpo were all back ups if Loyola didn't work out. I don't think it had much to do with facilities or athletics, I think it had to do with the market and location. Elgin won't come out and flat out say that, but I can guarantee you he wanted Loyola all along. He has to come up with a reason and the good facilities at Loyola are all but a scapegoat.

Isn't that what people say that don't have dates for the prom?

Believe it if you must but Valpo had a real chance if they had shown any commitment at all to athletic facilities.

It wouldn't have taken much, commitment in terms of increased funding for athletics and in facility development, but Valpo could show nothing in that area but the same promises they have been feeding the student/athletes and fans for 15-20 years. Elgin and their committee saw right through it.

[StlVUFan]

Nothing wrong with being disappointed.  It always sucks to be passed over by a desirable conference.

The object lesson to derive from this disappointment is far from clear to me.

[classof2014]

Looking back at it now I don't think Valpo ever had a chance before it even began. Elgin probably wanted Loyola from the start and teams like UMKC, UIC, and Valpo were all back ups if Loyola didn't work out. I don't think it had much to do with facilities or athletics, I think it had to do with the market and location. Elgin won't come out and flat out say that, but I can guarantee you he wanted Loyola all along. He has to come up with a reason and the good facilities at Loyola are all but a scapegoat.

Isn't that what people say that don't have dates for the prom?

Believe it if you must but Valpo had a real chance if they had shown any commitment at all to athletic facilities.

It wouldn't have taken much, commitment in terms of increased funding for athletics and in facility development, but Valpo could show nothing in that area but the same promises they have been feeding the student/athletes and fans for 15-20 years. Elgin and their committee saw right through it.

I believe Valpo has a very strong commitment to athletics and our track record over the past few seasons prove it. Four separate sports won the HL title over the past 2 seasons, that's by no coincidence. Just because our facilities aren't the prettiest doesn't mean we don't have a commitment to athletics. Yes, the ARC is pretty ugly looking but it works just as was as the Gentile Arena. Not having a track does hurt but neither did Loyola, so it obviously wasn't a deciding factor. To have multiple sports reach the pinnacle shows that we have a strong commitment to our athletic teams. Loyola just shows commitment to the athletic facilities not their teams. That's why I believe they had Loyola in mind before it even began and it had nothing to do with the performance of the teams or the athletic facilities. Unfortunately for Valpo we're located 50 miles southeast of Chicago, that's why we weren't chosen.

[a3uge]

Thanks a3uge...not exactly what I meant though. 

Look fellas, we aren't going to the MVC.  Its not because of lack of resources or lack of facilities.  They chose Loyola.  The HL really didn't lose out on anything by Loyola leaving.  Adding just about anybody to the league is an upgrade over Loyola.  Lets think about who is getting added to the HL since we aren't getting added to the MVC.

I was just being facetious... which admittedly is hard to detect on the internet.

Anyways, I think people are just bitter and feel snubbed toward the situation. Maybe everyone's feeling that the only plausible explanation for the MVC adding Loyola over Valpo was facilities. This would mean Valpo is at fault, and it's easier to point fingers at at something you can potentially do something about rather than face a realization that maybe there wasn't much we could do. Maybe the MVC just acted in the interest of adding a good academic school inside of a big market (much like the B1G TEN did with Rutgers and Maryland). Maybe there aren't a dozen donors out there that would say "Oh, of course I'd rather give my money to athletic facilities rather than this Welcome Center."

Up until a couple of weeks ago we all could never have guessed the MVC was looking to add VALPO/UIC/Loyola/UMKC to replace Creighton rather than Belmont/Murray State/ORU/SDSU and we were fine with the Horizon. Is it THAT big of a deal right now we're right back where we were a week ago, minus one of our worst teams? I mean it's not like seeding is affected between mid-major conferences... South Dakota State wound up with a better seed despite having a worse RPI. I think the Horizon at 8 or 9 with Oakland is not all that horrific. We haven't wound back up in the Summit League. We're not playing Southern Utah, UMKC, and Centenary. We're without a 223 RPI team from last year. If worst comes to worst we lose UIC too whom was 169. Both teams haven't broken the top 100 RPI since Valpo's been in the conference. Oakland's been better than both teams since we've entered the Horizon and they have 2 NCAA births with even a victory.

[crusaderjoe]

Keep justifying it in your head that past spending on academic infrastructure was some sort of overall commitment to upgrading in general--never mind that it nearly abandoned athletics in its totality.

If Valpo truly ignored its athletics explain to me how the basketball team won two straight Horizon League titles, along with soccer, softball, and baseball all winning the Horizon League regular season or Horizon League tournament over the past 2 seasons. Right now, the money and the donations might not be there to upgrade some of the facilities, but with the new hiring I think there will be substantial fundraising to get an upgrade to the facilities. Let's not forget that Heckler sunk millions of dollars in buying the land the hospital is on so he can expand some of the athletic facilities in the future.

To say Valpo has completely ignored their athletics is completely absurd.

I never said VU completely ignored their athletics.

There is a level of facility commitment in place by VU because sometimes our teams win conference championships?  What a complete and utter joke.  Even Homer Drew admitted that the ARC was a liability when it came to recruiting when he was taking VU to all of those NCAA appearances.  Wow, just wow. 

And someone mentioned it earlier--instead of chest-thumping about all of this "commitment", why don't you give credit where credit lies?  It all goes to the coaches and the AD in trying to facilitate championships with sub-par facilities at best at their disposal.

Some of you more seasoned apologists who roam around here should take note of classof2014.  This cat is taking facility apologism to epic proportions and new heights on this board.