Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[vu72]

In response to the UNI fan, we do draw well against better teams.  This season we had some terrible games drawing less then 2000 which hurt our average.  Generally we are drawing around 3500.  Against Rhode Island we had 4149.  Last year we drew better with 4117 coming for IPFW, 4987 for Wright State, 4863 for Oakland and then 4991 for Florida State and 5444 for St. Mary's.

The thing about the ARC is the fact that it is a very difficult place to play--for the visitors!  Folks are right on top of the floor as are the students. When it's rockin, it is ROCKIN!!

Whoever said that the fans are tired of the crappy teams in the Horizon, hit it on the head.  Playing UNI, Drake, Indiana State and Evansville will bring back rivalries going back to the old ICC days. We first played Evansville in 1931 and Indiana State in 1939.  Drake already belongs in our football conference.

Academically we fit much better in the Valley.  Including Valpo, there would be five teams ranked by US News, who were ranked in the top 20 of Midwestern Regional Universities.  Valpo, Drake, Bradley, Evansville and UNI. In the Horizon we are the only school ranked in the top 20 and some schools have horrible academic reputations.

[crusaderjoe]

Hey guys, UNI fan here. I've gotta think the Valley is gonna try and get you guys on board, but there are plenty of theories, and as we know, the last time they really screwed it up. Some think we shouldn't bother adding anyone this year, and set up for a bigger expansion next year. I don't think that bodes well, especially if your Horizon is trying to also gear up for an expansion.

You would be hard pressed to argue that moving to the MVC isn't a significant step up. Money, exposure, atmosphere, and competition are all pluses. I do have to agree that multi bid chances take a major blow without WSU, which is not to say it won't be possible. Our team is reloading, but Ben Jacobsen has proved over and over he can produce an at large caliber team. I don't think it's a stretch to say Illinois State could do the same. Most of the rest of the valley have tasted success and have the resources to be strong teams. That doesn't necessarily mean a lot, but at least they put basketball in the driver seat of their athletics. As far as UNI and ISUr jumping ship to go to fbs football, I don't think that is realistic right now. However, if the valley really screws up in filling WSU's void, we might push for a change, but resource wise, it would still be a stretch.

On another note, there are some concerns in the idea of taking you guys in. Fresh off the loss of Bryce Drew, it seems a bit up in the air as far as future success is concerned. Others feel hesitant with your old and relatively small gym, that seemed to struggle with attendance last season. Loyola left a bad taste in people's mouth with their gym and pitiful attendance. Would love to hear your guy's thoughts on those things, because its not always how it appears, and I don't doubt that you all are capable of continuing success.

I might be one of a handful of fans on this board (actually I might be the only one) who believes that Valpo should take FBS football into consideration when making a conference move to the Valley.  If Valpo is offered a spot in the MVC, the likelihood of any potential future move up by either Missouri State, Illinois State or UNI to FBS via an existing FBS conference is concerning as far as conference stability is concerned, IMO.  We don't have to really worry about this at all in the HL.  As for jumping to FBS, you say it's not realistic now, but what about in five or so years when these G5 FBS conferences either have already renegotiated media deals or are in the process of doing so? I would hate to see the stability of a "Valpo membered" MVC completely dependent upon CUSA or Sun Belt expansion or lack thereof if we make the move.

[a3uge]

Hey guys, UNI fan here. I've gotta think the Valley is gonna try and get you guys on board, but there are plenty of theories, and as we know, the last time they really screwed it up. Some think we shouldn't bother adding anyone this year, and set up for a bigger expansion next year. I don't think that bodes well, especially if your Horizon is trying to also gear up for an expansion.

You would be hard pressed to argue that moving to the MVC isn't a significant step up. Money, exposure, atmosphere, and competition are all pluses. I do have to agree that multi bid chances take a major blow without WSU, which is not to say it won't be possible. Our team is reloading, but Ben Jacobsen has proved over and over he can produce an at large caliber team. I don't think it's a stretch to say Illinois State could do the same. Most of the rest of the valley have tasted success and have the resources to be strong teams. That doesn't necessarily mean a lot, but at least they put basketball in the driver seat of their athletics. As far as UNI and ISUr jumping ship to go to fbs football, I don't think that is realistic right now. However, if the valley really screws up in filling WSU's void, we might push for a change, but resource wise, it would still be a stretch.

On another note, there are some concerns in the idea of taking you guys in. Fresh off the loss of Bryce Drew, it seems a bit up in the air as far as future success is concerned. Others feel hesitant with your old and relatively small gym, that seemed to struggle with attendance last season. Loyola left a bad taste in people's mouth with their gym and pitiful attendance. Would love to hear your guy's thoughts on those things, because its not always how it appears, and I don't doubt that you all are capable of continuing success.

I've read most of the thread on the MVC forum, and it seems there's not a lot of love for Valpo. I didn't see this mentioned - how much of a mistake did the MVC make by choosing Loyola over Valpo the first time around? The MVC would have been a 3 bid league last year if they had Valpo instead of Loyola. There were concerns back then about Valpo's facilities. Yeah, still waiting for Bradley and Drake to become relevant based on their facilities. Drake has lost 70 games in the past three years, while Bradley has lost 71. Valpo has lost 70 games in 7 seasons.

So 4 years ago, Loyola entered the MVC. In that time, Valpo has won 100 games, won the conference 3 times, made the ncaa tournament, and was the runner up in the nit. Aside from the departing Wichita State, the only team with more success has been UNI, and even they couldn't finish above .500 vs d1 teams in two of those years.

Even take this year... Valpo's wins over Rhode Island, BYU, and Alabama were arguably better wins than what Wichita State or Illinois State had (out of conference).

So if the MVC wants to stick to their criteria of markets and facilities, so be it. Good luck at your state fair facility-competition. We'll be over here actually winning games.

Edit: I didn't mean to direct this rant at you- more so the various MVC fans that haven't learned anything from last time around.

[FieldGoodie05]

Very well put on the conparisons a3huge.  To UNIs question on transition, Coach Lottich is very well respected by his players and community.  Most important is his drive to succeed.  I'm more worried about his success and departure before the 31 year mark!!!

[hailcrusaders]

Academically we fit much better in the Valley.  Including Valpo, there would be five teams ranked by US News, who were ranked in the top 20 of Midwestern Regional Universities.  Valpo, Drake, Bradley, Evansville and UNI. In the Horizon we are the only school ranked in the top 20 and some schools have horrible academic reputations.

I'm not a huge fan of academic rankings (they're very subjective), but there is some truth to this. Here's a breakdown of the conferences by Carnegie classification:

Horizon (excluding Valpo): Five Doctoral Universities (two R1, one R2, two R3; all public), Four Masters Universities (one private, three public).

Missouri Valley (excluding Wichita St): Four Doctoral Universities (three R2, one R3; three public, one private), Five Masters Universities (three private, two public)

Considering that Valpo is classified as a private masters university, there is one similar school in the Horizon (Detroit-Mercy) and three similar schools in the MVC (Bradley, Drake, Evansville).

There isn't a huge difference in doctoral (primarily research) universities vs. masters (primarily undergrad focused with a handful of masters programs) universities, but there is a substantial difference between private vs. public.

[covufan]

Hey guys, UNI fan here. I've gotta think the Valley is gonna try and get you guys on board, but there are plenty of theories, and as we know, the last time they really screwed it up. Some think we shouldn't bother adding anyone this year, and set up for a bigger expansion next year. I don't think that bodes well, especially if your Horizon is trying to also gear up for an expansion.

You would be hard pressed to argue that moving to the MVC isn't a significant step up. Money, exposure, atmosphere, and competition are all pluses. I do have to agree that multi bid chances take a major blow without WSU, which is not to say it won't be possible. Our team is reloading, but Ben Jacobsen has proved over and over he can produce an at large caliber team. I don't think it's a stretch to say Illinois State could do the same. Most of the rest of the valley have tasted success and have the resources to be strong teams. That doesn't necessarily mean a lot, but at least they put basketball in the driver seat of their athletics. As far as UNI and ISUr jumping ship to go to fbs football, I don't think that is realistic right now. However, if the valley really screws up in filling WSU's void, we might push for a change, but resource wise, it would still be a stretch.

On another note, there are some concerns in the idea of taking you guys in. Fresh off the loss of Bryce Drew, it seems a bit up in the air as far as future success is concerned. Others feel hesitant with your old and relatively small gym, that seemed to struggle with attendance last season. Loyola left a bad taste in people's mouth with their gym and pitiful attendance. Would love to hear your guy's thoughts on those things, because its not always how it appears, and I don't doubt that you all are capable of continuing success.

I might be one of a handful of fans on this board (actually I might be the only one) who believes that Valpo should take FBS football into consideration when making a conference move to the Valley.  If Valpo is offered a spot in the MVC, the likelihood of any potential future move up by either Missouri State, Illinois State or UNI to FBS via an existing FBS conference is concerning as far as conference stability is concerned, IMO.  We don't have to really worry about this at all in the HL.  As for jumping to FBS, you say it's not realistic now, but what about in five or so years when these G5 FBS conferences either have already renegotiated media deals or are in the process of doing so? I would hate to see the stability of a "Valpo membered" MVC completely dependent upon CUSA or Sun Belt expansion or lack thereof if we make the move.

If Valpo can't find funding for the ARC, how are we going to move from FCS non-scholarship (and 5k Brown Field) to FBS (Alabama, Big 10, etc.)? 

I would agree that the University should look at other FCS options - FCS limited scholarships and full FCS scholarship.  Some of these schools have football stadiums less than 20k, which might be doable.  Some serious capital would need to be expended to move into FCS scholarship land, and I don't see how ($$ wise) we could make the leap to FBS.

[VULB#62]

Wha?

You missed his point.  VU FB is not a factor.  Stop right there.

[hailcrusaders]

Hey guys, UNI fan here. I've gotta think the Valley is gonna try and get you guys on board, but there are plenty of theories, and as we know, the last time they really screwed it up. Some think we shouldn't bother adding anyone this year, and set up for a bigger expansion next year. I don't think that bodes well, especially if your Horizon is trying to also gear up for an expansion. You would be hard pressed to argue that moving to the MVC isn't a significant step up. Money, exposure, atmosphere, and competition are all pluses. I do have to agree that multi bid chances take a major blow without WSU, which is not to say it won't be possible. Our team is reloading, but Ben Jacobsen has proved over and over he can produce an at large caliber team. I don't think it's a stretch to say Illinois State could do the same. Most of the rest of the valley have tasted success and have the resources to be strong teams. That doesn't necessarily mean a lot, but at least they put basketball in the driver seat of their athletics. As far as UNI and ISUr jumping ship to go to fbs football, I don't think that is realistic right now. However, if the valley really screws up in filling WSU's void, we might push for a change, but resource wise, it would still be a stretch. On another note, there are some concerns in the idea of taking you guys in. Fresh off the loss of Bryce Drew, it seems a bit up in the air as far as future success is concerned. Others feel hesitant with your old and relatively small gym, that seemed to struggle with attendance last season. Loyola left a bad taste in people's mouth with their gym and pitiful attendance. Would love to hear your guy's thoughts on those things, because its not always how it appears, and I don't doubt that you all are capable of continuing success.

I might be one of a handful of fans on this board (actually I might be the only one) who believes that Valpo should take FBS football into consideration when making a conference move to the Valley.  If Valpo is offered a spot in the MVC, the likelihood of any potential future move up by either Missouri State, Illinois State or UNI to FBS via an existing FBS conference is concerning as far as conference stability is concerned, IMO.  We don't have to really worry about this at all in the HL.  As for jumping to FBS, you say it's not realistic now, but what about in five or so years when these G5 FBS conferences either have already renegotiated media deals or are in the process of doing so? I would hate to see the stability of a "Valpo membered" MVC completely dependent upon CUSA or Sun Belt expansion or lack thereof if we make the move.

If Valpo can't find funding for the ARC, how are we going to move from FCS non-scholarship (and 5k Brown Field) to FBS (Alabama, Big 10, etc.)? I would agree that the University should look at other FCS options - FCS limited scholarships and full FCS scholarship.  Some of these schools have football stadiums less than 20k, which might be doable.  Some serious capital would need to be expended to move into FCS scholarship land, and I don't see how ($$ wise) we could make the leap to FBS.

I think crusaderjoe meant that Valpo should take the possibility of current MVC schools (MSU, ISUr, UNI) moving up to FBS into account, rather than consider it ourselves.

[VULB#62]

So.................................

For Valpo it comes down to a new conference where we will be fighting to be relevant versus a conference where we have dominated and can reload and continue the excellence.  Therefore, the decision is similar to the Belmont philosophy -- dominate where you are (probably a NCAA bid every other year) or take a flyer and have to work even harder to reach the top 4.

Suddenly, it occurs to me that all of our posts on getting to the Big Dance (via the HL) might be replaced by hoping we get into the top 4 of the MVC.  People, being #5 in the MVC does not give us the exposure that being #1 in the Horizon has given us these past few years.  Are we ready for that?

I am.  We proved that we could make the leap from Mid-Con to HL.  Why not to the MVC. 

Friggin GO Valpo!! 

(Sorry, that was my evening martini talking (bad martini, bad martini)

[VULB#62]

BTW, and FYI: The MVC supports the following sports:

MEN
Baseball
Basketball
CC
Soccer
S&D (MAC)
Golf
Tennis
T&F

WOMEN
Basketball
CC
Golf
Soccer
Tennis
Softball
S&D
Volleyball
T&F

They also list
MVFC
Pioneer FB League - Drake (only)

We also have
Bowling (not HL either)

[FieldGoodie05]

BTW, and FYI: The MVC supports the following sports:

MEN
Baseball
Basketball
CC
Soccer
S&D (MAC)
Golf
Tennis
T&F

WOMEN
Basketball
CC
Golf
Soccer
Tennis
Softball
S&D
Vollyball

They also list
MVFC
Pioneer FB League - Drake (only)

We also have
Bowling (not HL either)

Not women's T&F?

[VULB#62]

Another BTW, I hope the MVC says "screw it, go for the A-10 model and invite 3 schools." My choices:  Valpo (of course), Omaha and somebody else (I seriously doubt Belmont will act contrary to their established strategy). 

A sad note to this -- if only the athletic administration at UWM was competent, they would make a good addition as well.

[VULB#62]

Not women's T&F?

Oops - fixed that.

[FieldGoodie05]

Not women's T&F?

Oops - fixed that.

🍸🍸🍸🍸🍸

[usc4valpo]

Please keep Valpo football out of this conversation; it has nothing to do with the discussion.

[wh]

More Conference Realignment On Way: Why Belmont (And Others) Should Stay Put
Steve Layman
9:58 AM, Apr 6, 2017


http://www.newschannel5.com/sports/more-conference-realignment-on-way-why-belmont-and-others-should-stay-put

[VULB#62]

More Conference Realignment On Way: Why Belmont (And Others) Should Stay Put
Steve Layman
9:58 AM, Apr 6, 2017


http://www.newschannel5.com/sports/more-conference-realignment-on-way-why-belmont-and-others-should-stay-put

Wow, a pundit mentioned kinda the same thing as....

So.................................

For Valpo it comes down to a new conference where we will be fighting to be relevant versus a conference where we have dominated and can reload and continue the excellence.  Therefore, the decision is similar to the Belmont philosophy -- dominate where you are (probably a NCAA bid every other year) or take a flyer and have to work even harder to reach the top 4.

Suddenly, it occurs to me that all of our posts on getting to the Big Dance (via the HL) might be replaced by hoping we get into the top 4 of the MVC.  People, being #5 in the MVC does not give us the exposure that being #1 in the Horizon has given us these past few years.  Are we ready for that?

I am.  We proved that we could make the leap from Mid-Con to HL.  Why not to the MVC. 

Friggin GO Valpo!! 

(Sorry, that was my evening martini talking (bad martini, bad martini)

Ah, a conundrum.

[E-Villan]

Evansville fan here. I too feel you are on the short list, and personally hope you are the first call. I would also like to see Belmont, and a FCS public, such as Murray State added. This would bring the Valley to (6) similar publics, and (6) very similar privates.


I wouldn't be too worried about a FBS defection anytime soon. UNI could, but seems unlikely in the next 5 years. The State of Illinois is in deep financial straits, with some serious budget cutting taking place. Don't see ILSU being able to make any such move for quite some time. Same for Southern. Indiana State is already spending considerably less than the rest of the Valley on basketball. There is no way they can pool anymore for FBS. MSU could end up in the Sun Belt, but again, just don't see them taking that plunge, especially considering the state of the basketball program. I do feel at some point, the same differences that imploded the Big East could do the same here, with the MVFC going one way, and the privates another. If Valpo and Belmont are with the privates, simply adding an Oakland, Detroit and or Denver, and you would have a good starting point for a "Midwest Private League".


IMO, the MVC will be fine IF: 1. League expansion to 12 with 2 solid privates..ie Valpo and Belmont, and a FCS public such as Murray State.


2. The schools also enact a tough OOC scheduling mandate, similar to what was in place when we sent 4 to the NCAA in '06. I am not sitting in a glass house. I fully realize Marty has been one of the worst offenders of this. We paid dearly for this last year, with 26 wins, a 2nd place in both the regular season, and MVC tournament, and not even a NIT sniff. Trust me, most UE fans are growing tired of Martyball, and we are certainly tired of his pansy OOC scheduling.


Sorry to invade your board. Good luck, and hopefully when the dust settles, we can renew our long rivalry in a conference setting.

[valpotx]

The Summit finished at #17, while the HL was #19 this season.

http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-conf-rpi.html

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

[a3uge]

The Summit finished at #17, while the HL was #19 this season.

http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-conf-rpi.html

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

Lol they're literally missing a team.

[VULB#62]

Evansville fan here. I too feel you are on the short list, and personally hope you are the first call. I would also like to see Belmont, and a FCS public, such as Murray State added. This would bring the Valley to (6) similar publics, and (6) very similar privates.


I wouldn't be too worried about a FBS defection anytime soon. UNI could, but seems unlikely in the next 5 years. The State of Illinois is in deep financial straits, with some serious budget cutting taking place. Don't see ILSU being able to make any such move for quite some time. Same for Southern. Indiana State is already spending considerably less than the rest of the Valley on basketball. There is no way they can pool anymore for FBS. MSU could end up in the Sun Belt, but again, just don't see them taking that plunge, especially considering the state of the basketball program. I do feel at some point, the same differences that imploded the Big East could do the same here, with the MVFC going one way, and the privates another. If Valpo and Belmont are with the privates, simply adding an Oakland, Detroit and or Denver, and you would have a good starting point for a "Midwest Private League".


IMO, the MVC will be fine IF: 1. League expansion to 12 with 2 solid privates..ie Valpo and Belmont, and a FCS public such as Murray State.

2. The schools also enact a tough OOC scheduling mandate, similar to what was in place when we sent 4 to the NCAA in '06. I am not sitting in a glass house. I fully realize Marty has been one of the worst offenders of this. We paid dearly for this last year, with 26 wins, a 2nd place in both the regular season, and MVC tournament, and not even a NIT sniff. Trust me, most UE fans are growing tired of Martyball, and we are certainly tired of his pansy OOC scheduling.

Sorry to invade your board. Good luck, and hopefully when the dust settles, we can renew our long rivalry in a conference setting.

Welcome Evillan. No need to apologize for an informative post.  Glad you felt compelled to add your ideas. I personally hope that the MVC adds 3 to replace one and shores up the bottom half of the conference.  Just like in the HL, the need to implement OOC guidelines and standards is very important to mid-major conference survival.  Even a pre-conference season MVC/HL Challenge could produce some upticks in respective RPIs.  Then throw in neutral site tournaments and away games vs. P5/6 teams and good things might happen.  Mid-major conferences have to proactively work together.  Each team/conference going their own separate way has resulted in the perpetuation of the single bid situation.

Looking forward to more of your insight.  Also looking forward to resuming the rivalry  -- it's been too long since the old ICC days.

[VULB#62]

Today is a big day. All eyes are turned to the AAC office in Providence, RI.  What will the news be   

[VULB#62]

Just adding my belated observation on the physical composition of the HL vs. MVC.  I looked up each school (skipped WSU) on Google Maps and did a 30,000' view of the respective campuses.  One thing, which most of you already know and I'm late to the party on, stood out to me as a big difference:  commuter institutions vs. established destination campuses.  In very wide-sweeping terms, my flyovers of the MVC schools told me - destination campus (with some small exceptions).  Flying over the HL schools, I concluded that the majority have a parking lot look to them and therefore were commuter environments.  Valpo obviously fits in the destination campus category.  To me, one more little reason to support a move. 

[bigmosmithfan1]

That is an excellent point in terms of academic "fit" -- MVC certainly is a residential campus conference, similar to Valpo. The HL has more of a "commuter school" flair. (That said, I'll note that the commuter-school tag can hang around a university's neck for a long time even well after that's no longer true. UIC is a great example of this - it's evolved into a destination campus now, with most undergraduate students living on or near campus, with the "commuters" pretty much limited to their grad programs).

SI is reporting that AAC has officially invited Wichita, so let the jockeying begin....

[a3uge]

Evansville fan here. I too feel you are on the short list, and personally hope you are the first call. I would also like to see Belmont, and a FCS public, such as Murray State added. This would bring the Valley to (6) similar publics, and (6) very similar privates.


I wouldn't be too worried about a FBS defection anytime soon. UNI could, but seems unlikely in the next 5 years. The State of Illinois is in deep financial straits, with some serious budget cutting taking place. Don't see ILSU being able to make any such move for quite some time. Same for Southern. Indiana State is already spending considerably less than the rest of the Valley on basketball. There is no way they can pool anymore for FBS. MSU could end up in the Sun Belt, but again, just don't see them taking that plunge, especially considering the state of the basketball program. I do feel at some point, the same differences that imploded the Big East could do the same here, with the MVFC going one way, and the privates another. If Valpo and Belmont are with the privates, simply adding an Oakland, Detroit and or Denver, and you would have a good starting point for a "Midwest Private League".


IMO, the MVC will be fine IF: 1. League expansion to 12 with 2 solid privates..ie Valpo and Belmont, and a FCS public such as Murray State.

2. The schools also enact a tough OOC scheduling mandate, similar to what was in place when we sent 4 to the NCAA in '06. I am not sitting in a glass house. I fully realize Marty has been one of the worst offenders of this. We paid dearly for this last year, with 26 wins, a 2nd place in both the regular season, and MVC tournament, and not even a NIT sniff. Trust me, most UE fans are growing tired of Martyball, and we are certainly tired of his pansy OOC scheduling.

Sorry to invade your board. Good luck, and hopefully when the dust settles, we can renew our long rivalry in a conference setting.

Welcome Evillan. No need to apologize for an informative post.  Glad you felt compelled to add your ideas. I personally hope that the MVC adds 3 to replace one and shores up the bottom half of the conference.  Just like in the HL, the need to implement OOC guidelines and standards is very important to mid-major conference survival.  Even a pre-conference season MVC/HL Challenge could produce some upticks in respective RPIs.  Then throw in neutral site tournaments and away games vs. P5/6 teams and good things might happen.  Mid-major conferences have to proactively work together.  Each team/conference going their own separate way has resulted in the perpetuation of the single bid situation.

Looking forward to more of your insight.  Also looking forward to resuming the rivalry  -- it's been too long since the old ICC days.

Scheduling mandates would be useful for the top teams to ensure they're in the top 100 RPI, which means a better seed come tournament time. But mandating a harder schedule for teams like YSU, Cleveland State, and UWM would be counterproductive. Remember, the best way to improve CONFERENCE RPI is to have every team have a better win-loss percentage. The selection committee doesn't really look at conference SOS. Conferences that schedule really easy (the MAC), actually have strong RPIs with multiple top 100 teams, and receive better seeds come March, despite having poor individual OOC SOS's... and not as good teams. But I digress.

Also, due to the scheduling difficulty of mid majors, you may end up with teams playing only on the road to meet the criteria, because often times, the only home games a mid major can get is a Chicago State level team.