Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[classof2014]

If Valpo can show that it has plans to renovate or build a new gym, the hospital site is perfect and even comes with a parking garage already attached! Valpo has shown that it can compete at all levels with all programs not just basketball. 4 or 5 teams have one the Horizon League, thus we are becoming the big fish in a small pond once again and I hope the MVC officials realize this and ask us to join the MVC. I'm fairly optimistic, as Valpo seemingly meets and exceeds in many of the major categories, with the only drawback being its gym and athletic facilities.

[usc4valpo]

You know, I hope all this is not an April Fools joke.

[classof2014]

I don't believe it is a joke. Could be wrong though, and I would be super pissed off it was!

The Kansas City Star is a legit newspaper in KC. Also multipe sources have not denied that the MVC was looking at Valpo. LaBarbera and the MVC commissioner both didn't deny it. I really doubt they would have done this as a joke, especially when the commissioners are involved. If it is a joke it is one cruel joke.

So IMO I think this is all legit, nothing unusual about it. Not like Valpo to the Pac12 or something really crazy!

[vu72]

The NWI area just doesn't have the population to support an MVC program long-term.

I don't see how NWI isn't large enough to support a MVC team. The NWI area has around 800,000 people (Jasper, Lake, LaPorte, Newton, and Porter Counties). Which is much larger than Peoria, Cedar Falls, Evansville. So population of the area doesn't matter all that much to the MVC, in the Horizon we are the smallest in the MVC we would be average if not a bit above.

We also are similar size in enrollment to some of the MVC programs. Drake, Evansville, and Bradley all are around 5,000 students the first two closer to 3,000 which is the same with Valpo and Valpo is in a bigger population area. So, it doesn't effect whether or not the MVC will offer them a spot, in fact it might play a factor in helping Valpo get an offer for the MVC as they see the school is similar to many of their schools.

This is dead on. Peoria? DesMoines? Yes, being private is a smaller market area fits the MVC very well.

[Dave_2010]

When you start playing through all the different scenarios, you come to the conclusion that there is currently one (or two if you count the soon-to-be-extinct Great West) too many conferences trying to cover the same relative geographic area (The Valley, Horizon, Summit, and WAC) and one will eventually cease to exist. In spite of losing Creighton, the Valley remains the most stable and should stay that way for some time. My money would be on the WAC and Summit fighting for programs until one finally gives up the ghost with the WAC and western Summit teams in one league and the eastern Summit teams looking at the HL or OVC.

Though it is probably the second most stable league after the Valley on this list, due to its geographic location the HL is under serious threat of raids from both the east (A-10) and west (MVC) and stands to lose at least one or two members in the next cycle of realignment. Every time the league loses a "top program" it is likely to turn to the Summit League for a replacement. If we chose to remain loyal to the HL, we could end up in a league that progressively looks more and more like the old Mid-Con with each passing year (just look at the lists of potential Butler replacements that have been thrown around this board over the last year).

If the opportunity to move to the Valley presents itself, it would be very difficult for Heckler, LaBarbera and the rest of the administration to sell the Valpo community on staying in a consistent one-bid HL seemingly destined to take several additional steps back long before it can start moving forward post-Butler. Especially when the Valley feels like a much better fit from a cultural standpoint (see my previous post on this thread).

[VULB#62]

If Valpo can show that it has plans to renovate or build a new gym, the hospital site is perfect and even comes with a parking garage already attached! Valpo has shown that it can compete at all levels with all programs not just basketball. 4 or 5 teams have one the Horizon League, thus we are becoming the big fish in a small pond once again and I hope the MVC officials realize this and ask us to join the MVC. I'm fairly optimistic, as Valpo seemingly meets and exceeds in many of the major categories, with the only drawback being its gym and athletic facilities.

The Porter property is designated for the new Field House in the 30 year plan.  In that same plan the ARC is slated for expansion as well. There is no plan for a "new ARC."  But let's also look at the other sports besides WBB, MBB and VB:  No track; Em Bauer field -- exposed and windy, often unplayable early into the season (scheduled to be moved to Kroencke location in the future),  Softball -- Good; Tennis -- Good; Golf -- Good;  Soccer (East gate -- poor (bad drainage and windswept), Brown Field -- adequate but not soccer specific and not up to MVC standards).

The MVC is more than BB (although BB is a very big player).  I have to believe, that as a whole Valpo would bring to the MVC environment the worst total set of facilities of possible invitees. Valpo would have to, IMO, agree to submit a facility improvement plan and commit to immediately begin building/renovating/expanding/whatever its existing facilities to MVC standards before an invitation would be extended.  If it want's to play with the 'bigger boys', it has to improve it's whole athletic program commensurate with whom they aspire to or it won't be taken seriously.  Time to invest or stay in the HL.

[classof2014]

As long as Valpo has a plan to update their facilities and Heckler is all for the updates. I believe we will see an offer from the MVC.

If we chose to remain loyal to the HL, we could end up in a league that progressively looks more and more like the old Mid-Con with each passing year (just look at the lists of potential Butler replacements that have been thrown around this board over the last year).

I agree, it scares me to see that the Horizon is turning into a Summit League type conference. With a one or two okay to good teams and the rest stink. I personally don't see why the MVC wouldn't offer us a position. We are comparable to: Drake, Evansville, and Bradley. We aren't too far from Bradley, Illinois State, and Indiana State. We also have the potential to being one of the largest television markets because of Chicago. And many of the athletic teams have experienced recent success. It's not like we only have basketball, we have softball, baseball, volleyball, soccer, etc... That have had successful seasons in the recent past. Yes, some of the facilities are lacking but with President Heckler's plan I see these all being addressed as he looks to expand the university.

[VULB#62]

BTW I was late in getting to this hot topic, but I have come to some conclusions besides my standard facilities rant below;

I like the idea that without Bryce moving on he can move up.  Great way to entice him to stay.
I like the higher overall level of competition in all sports, not just Basketball.
I like media respect -- I think it's higher on a national level.
I believe that VU home games against MVC schools on average will draw much better than the average home games vs. HL teams.
I like the idea of playing Indiana State and Evansville again (I'm an old ICC guy)
I do not feel good about the added travel (mainly for the non-basketball sports)

Carbondale - 350             Detroit - 247
Peoria - 191                    Cleveland - 307
Cedar Falls - 345              Dayton - 270
Springfield, MO - 537        Chicago - 52
Evansville - 280               Milwaukee - 143
DeMoines - 371                Green Bay - 259
Normal - 158                   Youngstown - 365
Terra Haute - 169             AVERAGE:  233  [Corrected]
Wichita - 733
AVERAGE:  348

While the average distance difference per trip is 115 miles greater in the MVC [corrected]; there are three trips that exceed any HL trip.  And... no trip is as close as Chicago - Normal being the closet at 158 miles. And BTW the 30 year plan is not a plan; it is a pipe dream at this point with no firm commitment to funding the athletic facilities at this point.  The MVC will want tangible movement right away, not in 5, 10 or 20 years.

[classof2014]

And BTW the 30 year plan is not a plan; it is a pipe dream at this point with no firm commitment to funding the athletic facilities at this point.

Buying the old hospital shows me that Heckler is willing to put forth the cash and really wants to expand upon his 30 year plan. Maybe going to the MVC will speed up the upgrades of some of their facilities.

And the travelling I don't think will be a problem. Yes, two trips are far in Springfield and Wichita but in the out of conference games they travel all across the country to places further away than Wichita and many of the drives are a reasonable 5 to 6 hour bus ride, which isn't too bad.

[wh]

BTW I was late in getting to this hot topic, but I have come to some conclusions besides my standard facilities rant below;

I like the idea that without Bryce moving on he can move up.  Great way to entice him to stay.
I like the higher overall level of competition in all sports, not just Basketball.
I like media respect -- I think it's higher on a national level.
I believe that VU home games against MVC schools on average will draw much better than the average home games vs. HL teams.
I like the idea of playing Indiana State and Evansville again (I'm an old ICC guy)
I do not feel good about the added travel (mainly for the non-basketball sports)

Carbondale - 350             Detroit - 247
Peoria - 191                    Cleveland - 307
Cedar Falls - 345              Dayton - 270
Springfield, MO - 537        Chicago - 52
Evansville - 280               Milwaukee - 143
DeMoines - 371                Green Bay - 259
Normal - 158                   Youngstown - 365
Terra Haute - 169             AVERAGE:  306
Wichita - 733
AVERAGE:  348

While the average distance difference is only 42 miles, there are three trips that exceed any HL trip.  And... no trip is as close as Chicago - Normal being the closet at 158 miles. And BTW the 30 year plan is not a plan; it is a pipe dream at this point with no firm commitment to funding the athletic facilities at this point.  The MVC will want tangible movement right away, not in 5, 10 or 20 years.

You may want to double check your math, 62.  The HL average looks way too high.

[mj]

I would like to see the Horizon League be more aggressive instead of waiting for a team to be poached from them. Looking at the Horizon League and the Missouri Valley Conference, here's what I propose. A 14 team conference, 7 team in each division. Play the tournament in Springfield (assuming they have an arena)

Western Division                                    Eastern Division
Green Bay                                                  Cleveland State
Milwaukee                                                  Wright State
Drake                                                        Detroit
Northern Iowa                                             Oakland
Illinois State                                               Valparaiso
Bradley                                                      Evansville
Southern Illinois                                          Indiana State

[wh]

Some general comments from an MVC associate commissioner about Valparaiso, general expansion

http://blogs.post-trib.com/osipoff/2013/04/some_general_comments_from_an_.html

[classof2014]

I would like to see the Horizon League be more aggressive instead of waiting for a team to be poached from them. Looking at the Horizon League and the Missouri Valley Conference, here's what I propose. A 14 team conference, 7 team in each division

This ain't gonna happen. Where would Missouri State & Wichita State go? And where'e UIC, Loyola, and Youngstown? as well. I agree that the Horizon needs to be more aggressive but it might be too late for that. If Valpo somehow stays, they need to make a move and fast. If not the Horizon will look a lot like the Summit League does right now, as a hodge podge of mediocre to poor teams, with one okay to good team that is one-and-done in the ncaa tourney.

[valpotx]

The MVC travel would be fine for all sports.  An average of 348 miles is not bad at all, but this is coming from someone who played in the Mid-Con lol.  I think that the travel difference will be negligible, in order to gain an increase national profile.  I think that our President and AD realize that athletics can help bring in many more students, just by watching what has happened at Butler.  If they commit to facilities improvements, we can be a player in all sports in the MVC

[bbtds]

While the average distance difference is only 42 miles, there are three trips that exceed any HL trip.  And... no trip is as close as Chicago - Normal being the closet at 158 miles. And BTW the 30 year plan is not a plan; it is a pipe dream at this point with no firm commitment to funding the athletic facilities at this point.  The MVC will want tangible movement right away, not in 5, 10 or 20 years.

Yes, I'm sure the MVC officials will not miss the large area around Brown Field that doesn't have a track and ask when we plan to build the track. I can just see Mark L trying to explain why a track has taken so long to build. That won't go over well at all. I'm sure Mark L is making up his patten response about how that "track of dreams" will now happen when Valpo ties it to a move to the MVC.

"Yeah, sure, right...."

[bbtds]

The MVC travel would be fine for all sports.  An average of 348 miles is not bad at all, but this is coming from someone who played in the Mid-Con lol.  I think that the travel difference will be negligible, in order to gain an increase national profile.  I think that our President and AD realize that athletics can help bring in many more students, just by watching what has happened at Butler.  If they commit to facilities improvements, we can be a player in all sports in the MVC

I'll make sure to text the volleyball team your speech when they are driving across the northern Missouri prairie on four lane divided US 36 with stoplights for 4 hours hoping to get to I-29 on the trip to Wichita and when they finally get to Cameron, MO and I-29 they have another 4 hours to go in their 12 hours of driving.

[crusaderjoe]

Another snippet of expansion information contained in this article:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/04/01/2742317/missouri-valley-revels-in-wichita.html

From the article:

Elgin thinks that success will help the conference attract new members if it decides to expand to 10 or 12 teams.

"When Creighton decided to leave, we emphasized that we are not defined by one institution," Elgin said. "There is a depth of strong programs in our league. Tradition and history have shown that we have survived defections. We are not in a panic mode. We are not desperate. We are not freaking out that Creighton is leaving. We have moved on. We knew other teams would step up. Wichita State has certainly proven to the rest of the league we are capable of running with the big boys."

Who else might join the race? The Valley is reportedly looking at UMKC, Valparaiso, Loyola-Chicago and Illinois-Chicago. Elgin refused comment on what schools the league was targeting, but said Valley officials will be making campus visits in the next four weeks. They will then present their findings to the league's presidents.

"We will go from there," Elgin said. "They will make the decision to stay at nine or go to 10 or choose to grow even bigger. We are going to be certainly expeditious in our review and outreach. We are going to move along as quickly as we can in the event we expand for next year. We should have an idea by the end of April."

*******

I read this as a 12 team league not being outside the realm of possibility.  IMO, if we're in contention, a move to 12 would really give VU a better shot at an offer than 10 would.

[VULB#62]

You may want to double check your math, 62.  The HL average looks way too high.

Oops!  That'll teach me to calculate with a pad and pencil at almost midnight after spending half the day on airplanes getting to snowy northern Ontario.

The correct average HL travel distance is 233 not 306.

I corrected my original (for the record).  Average distance difference per trip is 115 miles greater in the MVC [corrected]

Thanks WH.

[bbtds]

You may want to double check your math, 62.  The HL average looks way too high.

Oops!  That'll teach me to calculate on a pad and pencil at almost midnight after spending half the day on airplanes getting to snowy northern Ontario.

The correct average travel distance is 233 not 306.

I corrected my original (for the record).

Thanks WH.

Vous utilisiez kilomètres, correct?

I always found it important to keep this in mind when in northern Ontario.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/service-commitment/snow-ice-control.shtml

[VULB#62]

oui!

[FWalum]

You may want to double check your math, 62.  The HL average looks way too high.

Oops!  That'll teach me to calculate with a pad and pencil at almost midnight after spending half the day on airplanes getting to snowy northern Ontario.

The correct average HL travel distance is 233 not 306.

I corrected my original (for the record).  Average distance difference per trip is 115 miles greater in the MVC [corrected]

Thanks WH.

I am not even sure it is that high (233). If you are doing an average wouldn't you have to include both the trip to UIC and Loyola? So there would be a trip of 58 to UIC's Pavilion and 67 to Loyola's Gentile Center making the average 215. I suppose this is just nit picking.

[classof2014]

I'll make sure to text the volleyball team your speech when they are driving across the northern Missouri prairie on four lane divided US 36 with stoplights for 4 hours hoping to get to I-29 on the trip to Wichita and when they finally get to Cameron, MO and I-29 they have another 4 hours to go in their 12 hours of driving.

Only two trips would be pretty long, 8 hours to Springfield and 11 to 12 to Wichita. Yes, if every drive was 11 to 12 hours obviously the MVC would not be a good fit, but this is just one school. Wichita State seems to handle it fine, needing to go to Peoria, Evansville, Terre Haute, and Normal. Which are all 7, 8, 9, hour drives. I think we got spoiled being smack in the middle of the Horizon League which is one of the most compact conferences in the country. Yes, the MVC is a bit more spread out than the Horizon but still compared to many different conferences it is quite compact.

[valpotx]

The MVC travel would be fine for all sports.  An average of 348 miles is not bad at all, but this is coming from someone who played in the Mid-Con lol.  I think that the travel difference will be negligible, in order to gain an increase national profile.  I think that our President and AD realize that athletics can help bring in many more students, just by watching what has happened at Butler.  If they commit to facilities improvements, we can be a player in all sports in the MVC

I'll make sure to text the volleyball team your speech when they are driving across the northern Missouri prairie on four lane divided US 36 with stoplights for 4 hours hoping to get to I-29 on the trip to Wichita and when they finally get to Cameron, MO and I-29 they have another 4 hours to go in their 12 hours of driving.

Go ahead and do it!  We traveled a lot more, and we didn't complain...ever been to SUU???

[agibson]

If you are doing an average wouldn't you have to include both the trip to UIC and Loyola? So there would be a trip of 58 to UIC's Pavilion and 67 to Loyola's Gentile Center making the average 215. I suppose this is just nit picking.

Maybe just nitpicking.  But, if it's any small consolation, you're not the only one who ran the numbers! 

You were one up on me though, I just used the Chicago number twice.

[milldew72]

Hey guys. I asked this question on Raider Nation and no one seems to have a definitive answer. For lack of a better thread to add it to, I'll ask it here. After Kevin ware's injury and heading into the second half of Louisville/Duke at Lucas oil Stadium, I noticed the Horizon League logo on the Louisville locker room sign. Later on I also realized it was being sported in the top left corner of the court where the hosting team usually has its logo. Any of you have the scoop on how we got that there for the elite eight?

For a city/arena/facility to host an NCAA tournament event at any level (DI, DII, DIII, D-IA), said city/arena/facility must work with a certified NCAA university to serve as host institution. IUPUI was also one of the host institutions, as was the Indiana Sports Corporation. All those organizations/universities worked with the city and Lucas Oil to serve as NCAA approved host institutions.