Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[valpopal]

From Post Tribune's Mike Hutton on Twitter: "Buy in for Vaparaiso University for MVC is $1 mill. Buy-out from Horizon League is $1 mil. Could be hangup to leaving for MVC."

[historyman]

Breaking news today, reports are out that UIC will leave for the Missouri Valley Conference.  Other reports say that Oakland is coming in to the HL, but no time frame yet.  The bad news is that UMKC and Denver are also looking at the HL.  Neither of those schools has baseball, and if these are the only moves made, baseball will still be one short of the needed six teams for the automatic NCAA qualifier... We obviously need a series win this weekend, and there's lots of other things happening too.  The 2012 HL Championship/NCAA Regional sign will be unveiled at EGB. More importantly, the Valpo baseball concession stand with grilled cheeseburgers, brats, and hot dogs will make its Grand Opening.  Concessions will be permanent for all weekend series going forward.

I hope these are rumors. In there somewhere you have to wonder if Valpo turned down the MVC or the MVC saw UIC as having greater potential.

[wh]

From Post Tribune's Mike Hutton on Twitter: "Buy in for Vaparaiso University for MVC is $1 mill. Buy-out from Horizon League is $1 mil. Could be hangup to leaving for MVC."

That is A LOT of money! 

I doubt if it would deter UIC.  They can do it on the backs of IL taxpayers, directly or indirectly. 

[a3uge]

I honestly don't understand the facilities argument. What does it matter to the MVC if UIC has better facilities than Valpo? We've done consistently better than UIC with what we've got, and our recruiting has been fine vs the rest of the Horizon. You can play in Taj Mahal, but if your program sucks, you're not going to move up anywhere. UIC's athletic budget is the highest in the HL. Isn't it clear that they are incompetent if they can barely even compete in the revenue sport against their conference members? It's not the fact they haven't made the tourney in 10 years, it's that they haven't broken the top 100 RPI. They have a general lack of support in the US's third biggest city, and are behind two other Chicago programs that are also terrible. I mean, their basketball wikipedia page hasn't even been updated in 2 years.

This isn't to say Valpo shouldn't update the ARC (or at least add a track), but come on, 'potential' never ends up working out if you're picking a team for its city, not its success.

[classof2014]

I honestly don't understand the facilities argument. What does it matter to the MVC if UIC has better facilities than Valpo?

Agree with you a 100% on that one. Valpo has multiple athletic programs that are excelling currently: basketball, soccer, baseball, softball, etc... UIC doesn't have much going for it except the Chicago part and the nice facilities. So if UIC got asked to join the MVC, with their terrible athletics, I don't see how Valpo cannot get asked to join as well. We have proven that we can win in multiple sports and if we do improve some facilities just imagine how much better the programs at Valpo can be.

[walldozer]

How does conference membership work?  What are the contractual obligations? Once you agree to be in a conference, are you bound to that conference in perpetuity?  I wonder too if the school obligations and the conference obligations change if there is a substantal change in the school or the conference.  For example, is the school bound to a conference if the conference changes 20% to 30% of its membership (including the member that is arguabily its most valuable) within a 12 month period?  In that case, is the conference living up contractual expectations expected by the conference's members?  Conversely, what if a school decides that it no longer wishes to compete in Division 1 athletics.  In that particular situation, would the school be required to pay an exit fee because it is not living up to the contractual expectations of the conference (changing their competitive level of play)?

The the reported fact that Valparaiso must pay an exit fee to a conference that is substantially changed from what Valparaiso initially committed to does not set well with me.  That is what brought me to the questions I ask above.  While I know little about the legal subject, I think that Valparaiso can make a pretty good legal argument that since the conference has had (or may end up going through) such major changes, the end "product" put out by the Horizon has substantially changed from the original Horizon "product" that Valparaiso signed to when it entered the conference.   

Doctor evil- One Million Dollars

[wh]

I have the impression that different leagues have increased their exit fees over the past year or so as a result of all the conference jumping. I wonder whether the HL may have been among them in the aftermath of Butler leaving?  If so, the VU administration would have played a part in establishing the current exit fee, whatever it may be.  Personally, I would be surprised if it's that high.  Also, might the MVC waive part of the entry fee, in exchange for Valpo not receiving a future share of conf. NCAA tournament credits already earned?

[IrishDawg]

I have the impression that different leagues have increased their exit fees over the past year or so as a result of all the conference jumping. I wonder whether the HL may have been among them in the aftermath of Butler leaving?  If so, the VU administration would have played a part in establishing the current exit fee, whatever it may be.  Personally, I would be surprised if it's that high.  Also, might the MVC waive part of the entry fee, in exchange for Valpo not receiving a future share of conf. NCAA tournament credits already earned?

When Butler left the HL the exit fee was $500k, so yes, they have upped that since then, much like the CAA upped their's after VCU, ODU and Georgia Southern all took off.  The funny thing is that while the entry fee into the MVC is $1 million, the exit fee for Creighton was something ridiculously small, something like $100k or less.

[valpotx]

I would have to think that the entry fee would be reduced if they truly want a school to join, especially since they won't be sharing in any of the initial NCAA credits.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I mean, their basketball wikipedia page hasn't even been updated in 2 years.

Then again, what have they done that merits updating it?

So if UIC got asked to join the MVC, with their terrible athletics, I don't see how Valpo cannot get asked to join as well.

...um...maybe because they simply aren't looking at how good-looking the girl is, but rather at how nice her father's house is?  Been known to happen...

"Well gentlemen, after a long exhaustive search, we have finally come up with the perfect replacement for our recently departed top athletic program, Creighton University.  I give you UIC."

"Think of them as the IUPUI of Illinois!"

Doctor Evil- One Million Dollars

+10 for that one, 'dozer.

UIC doesn't have much going for it except the Chicago part ...

Ah, yes.  WHERE her father's house is located too is important

[valpopal]

I agree. The thought of just UIC to replace Creighton doesn't seem a good sell to the MVC. However, if the MVC could get UIC, Loyola, and Valpo as a package deal to replace Creighton, that would seem reasonable. The Chicago market is added, which would mean much more revenue for the league; there is a mix of public and private schools; the rivalries are kept intact; the concern about travel is lessened; the new UIC baseball stadium and Loyola's renovated basketball site are a plus; Valpo's stature as a basketball program strengthens the additions of UIC and Loyola, plus the MVC gets to share in the annual celebration of "The Shot," etc.

Valpo would compete in a higher league and would be able to continue recruiting Chicago and other Illinois players. Valpo could also use this as an exciting campaign drive with alums to upgrade the athletic facilities, which they would be obligated to do by the MVC as well. Bryce gets to coach in a higher level and might feel more obligated to stay. In addition, the current Valpo players would be very happy, especially all the Chicago kids and Alec Peters, who would get to play in his home town of Peoria.

I'm beginning to think it makes too much sense to pass up for anyone, but what do I know?   

I think we all know that UIC would not be the one and only addition to the MVC.  Picture their commissioner rolling that out for the university presidents.  "Well gentlemen, after a long exhaustive search, we have finally come up with the perfect replacement for our recently departed top athletic program, Creighton University.  I give you UIC."  That might be the shortest meeting in the history of athletic conferences.

[a3uge]

@CliffSmart Site visits to prospective valley schools went well. Despite reports on twitter, no decision made on new member. Still couple weeks off.

@PantherU I would look to UIC. Either they're feeding misinformation to several people or they really believe MVC is all but done

Panther U blaming UIC for stuff he reported

[valpotx]

Not a surprise at all.  There is no way that they offered membership so soon after just visiting everyone.  They would not have convened a school President's meeting in such short time, when they don't have to rush this decision.

[crusaderjoe]

Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.

[valpopal]

According to Fox 11 Sports, apparent Horizon League official position at this time:

"Reports have linked Illinois-Chicago to the Missouri Valley Conference, along with Loyola and Valparaiso. Commissioner LeCrone also addressed with Fox 11 the possibility that teams could be poached by other leagues. "Right now as far as I know none of the schools in the Horizon League have been offered invitations to other conferences so I do know that as a fact. With the recent changes and in this environment there is a lot of conversations going on and there has been some interest expressed by the Missouri Valley in 3 of our teams. So we're in touch with those schools and we're in touch with those Presidents. I'm in touch with the Missouri Valley Conference commissioner and we just have to be alert to the fact that we're living in changing times and again the important thing is to be appropriately responsive."

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/college/oakland-comments-on-horizon-league

[usc4valpo]

I honestly don't understand the facilities argument. What does it matter to the MVC if UIC has better facilities than Valpo? We've done consistently better than UIC with what we've got, and our recruiting has been fine vs the rest of the Horizon. You can play in Taj Mahal, but if your program sucks, you're not going to move up anywhere. UIC's athletic budget is the highest in the HL. Isn't it clear that they are incompetent if they can barely even compete in the revenue sport against their conference members? It's not the fact they haven't made the tourney in 10 years, it's that they haven't broken the top 100 RPI. They have a general lack of support in the US's third biggest city, and are behind two other Chicago programs that are also terrible. I mean, their basketball wikipedia page hasn't even been updated in 2 years. This isn't to say Valpo shouldn't update the ARC (or at least add a track), but come on, 'potential' never ends up working out if you're picking a team for its city, not its success.

I say expand the North End of the ARC, clean it up, add better concessions and restrooms and they will be fine.

[StlVUFan]

"Right now as far as I know none of the schools in the Horizon League have been offered invitations to other conferences so I do know that as a fact.

"As far as I know" does NOT equal "know that as fact".

[isu87]

Valpo fans, this is not over yet, not by a long shot. I still believe Valpo, UI-C and Loyola will all be asked to join the MVC. Stay tuned. It just makes sense.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

However, if the MVC could get UIC, Loyola, and Valpo as a package deal to replace Creighton, that would seem reasonable. The Chicago market is added, which would mean much more revenue for the league; there is a mix of public and private schools; the rivalries are kept intact; the concern about travel is lessened; the new UIC baseball stadium and Loyola's renovated basketball site are a plus; Valpo's stature as a basketball program strengthens the additions of UIC and Loyola, plus the MVC gets to share in the annual celebration of "The Shot," etc.

Valpo would compete in a higher league and would be able to continue recruiting Chicago and other Illinois players. Valpo could also use this as an exciting campaign drive with alums to upgrade the athletic facilities, which they would be obligated to do by the MVC as well. Bryce gets to coach in a higher level and might feel more obligated to stay. In addition, the current Valpo players would be very happy, especially all the Chicago kids and Alec Peters, who would get to play in his home town of Peoria.

This is as good an assessment of the "what if" best case scenario as I've seen, except for the matter of possibly having to come up with $2 million, and the last sentence.

If playing in Peoria were REALLY that important to Alec, he had a couple scholarship options to play half his games there, didn't he?

[bbtds]

However, if the MVC could get UIC, Loyola, and Valpo as a package deal to replace Creighton, that would seem reasonable. The Chicago market is added, which would mean much more revenue for the league; there is a mix of public and private schools; the rivalries are kept intact; the concern about travel is lessened; the new UIC baseball stadium and Loyola's renovated basketball site are a plus; Valpo's stature as a basketball program strengthens the additions of UIC and Loyola, plus the MVC gets to share in the annual celebration of "The Shot," etc.

Valpo would compete in a higher league and would be able to continue recruiting Chicago and other Illinois players. Valpo could also use this as an exciting campaign drive with alums to upgrade the athletic facilities, which they would be obligated to do by the MVC as well. Bryce gets to coach in a higher level and might feel more obligated to stay. In addition, the current Valpo players would be very happy, especially all the Chicago kids and Alec Peters, who would get to play in his home town of Peoria.

This is as good an assessment of the "what if" best case scenario as I've seen, except for the matter of possibly having to come up with $2 million, and the last sentence.

If playing in Peoria were REALLY that important to Alec, he had a couple scholarship options to play half his games there, didn't he?

Better to have played in Peoria once than to never have played in Peoria at all.

How do you think my saying will play in Peoria?

Do you think the Cats will like it at Caterpillar?

Or will they be hanging me from Murray Baker Bridge?

[valpopal]

However, if the MVC could get UIC, Loyola, and Valpo as a package deal to replace Creighton, that would seem reasonable. The Chicago market is added, which would mean much more revenue for the league; there is a mix of public and private schools; the rivalries are kept intact; the concern about travel is lessened; the new UIC baseball stadium and Loyola's renovated basketball site are a plus; Valpo's stature as a basketball program strengthens the additions of UIC and Loyola, plus the MVC gets to share in the annual celebration of "The Shot," etc.

Valpo would compete in a higher league and would be able to continue recruiting Chicago and other Illinois players. Valpo could also use this as an exciting campaign drive with alums to upgrade the athletic facilities, which they would be obligated to do by the MVC as well. Bryce gets to coach in a higher level and might feel more obligated to stay. In addition, the current Valpo players would be very happy, especially all the Chicago kids and Alec Peters, who would get to play in his home town of Peoria.

This is as good an assessment of the "what if" best case scenario as I've seen, except for the matter of possibly having to come up with $2 million, and the last sentence.

If playing in Peoria were REALLY that important to Alec, he had a couple scholarship options to play half his games there, didn't he?

Valpo knew the cost of buy-outs before hosting the MVC, and they went ahead anyway. Plus, I have to believe the fees are negotiable, especially if Valpo enters the MVC as a package deal with UIC and Loyola.

Alec wanted to play for Valpo; however, that doesn't eliminate the fact he'd love to do so in front of friends and family in Peoria.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

It just makes sense.

I'm beginning to think it makes too much sense to pass up for anyone

Thus the move makes sense for Valpo

[covufan]

Wow, there is much going on with conference realignment.  Some months ago I would have thought that if the HL were to get 3 really good schools that included other sports such as baseball, that the HL would be in solid shape.  The MVC is very enticing.  The fact that the MVC reacted quickly to losing Creighton, and announced visits to potential Universities, I think speaks well of the MVC leadership.  The distances will be a change, especially since we'll be losing major metro markets such as Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee and Dayton for smaller markets and smaller numbers of alumni.  If UIC and Loyola go with us, then we keep the biggest alumni and recruiting market of Chicago - which is a plus.  I really like the potential rivalries of the MVC.  If we can get the ARC to 85% capacity on average the first few years in the MVC, the ARC expansion and new track will come quicker in the MVC.

[covufan]

I voted Yes 3 because it kind of included (stretching it a bit) both Yes 1 and Yes 2.  Although I almost voted for Yes 4!

[covufan]

From the wiki MVC page, we have our work cut out for Men's Basketball Attendance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Valley_Conference

I can't believe that Creighton, with a student enrollment of just under 8,000 averaged nearly 18,000 per game!  Only Drake at 4500 and N. Iowa at 4800 were less than 5000 in average attendance.  Expanded ARC by 2017?