Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[bbtds]

It's very interesting. My 2 questions will be answered almost immediately.

It sounds like UMKC and Denver were invited to the HL or at least are being looked at for possible membership in the HL.

Will Valpo fund the move to the MVC? The AD, president and BoD are hit squarely in the face with the question. Are they able to make a $2 million decision to help Valpo get to their goal of student enrollment at 6,000 through athletics or will they wilt and retreat and say "we don't want this."

[classof2014]

According to Fox 11 Sports, apparent Horizon League official position at this time:

"Reports have linked Illinois-Chicago to the Missouri Valley Conference, along with Loyola and Valparaiso. Commissioner LeCrone also addressed with Fox 11 the possibility that teams could be poached by other leagues. "Right now as far as I know none of the schools in the Horizon League have been offered invitations to other conferences so I do know that as a fact. With the recent changes and in this environment there is a lot of conversations going on and there has been some interest expressed by the Missouri Valley in 3 of our teams. So we're in touch with those schools and we're in touch with those Presidents. I'm in touch with the Missouri Valley Conference commissioner and we just have to be alert to the fact that we're living in changing times and again the important thing is to be appropriately responsive."

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/college/oakland-comments-on-horizon-league

According to this sounds like there is a good chance that Valpo, Loyola, and UIC might all be jumping ship to the MVC, which isn't a bad move for us at all. Keeping two teams only an hour away while playing better competition all around is the best case scenario. Especially if Oakland is not joining the Horizon, just more motivation for these teams to leave. Still everything is a rumor and nothing is set in stone and nothing will surprise me at this point.

[blackpantheruwm]

I want to clarify, as I did on Twitter, that I stand by my sources, as does Rob Demovsky on his.

I also want to clarify that I know nothing of Valpo's visit or if the MVC is going to 12.  The only separate thing I heard was that Loyola's visit "went well."

[Chairback]

My source says your source is wrong.  And I'm now going to jump on every HL forum and post and tweet that I'm right.  This is getting pretty ridiculous.  Everyone has a source.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but wasn't LeCrone's interview last week per the article?  If so it's not so up to date news.

Kudos again to ML for not sitting and waiting on the HL.  I'm sure Valpo was well aware of exit and entry fees before the MVC came for a visit.  "Thanks for having us and, Oh yeah, by the way there's this fee....."

1M (if true) is a lot of cash and will take longer than a week to evaluate. The idea of Valpo joining the MVC has had to been in discussion for some time. The entry fee has to be negotiable.  MVC would end up with IUPUI if it wasn't.

[a3uge]

@THefferman_SI
SIU Chancellor Rita Cheng, the ranking voting member for SIU for adding new schools, said no decision has been made to add new school.

[zvillehaze]

I want to clarify, as I did on Twitter, that I stand by my sources, as does Rob Demovsky on his.

I also want to clarify that I know nothing of Valpo's visit or if the MVC is going to 12.  The only separate thing I heard was that Loyola's visit "went well."

I have no sources, so I'll just ask questions.  The MVC has been at 10 teams for a while, so why would they suddenly wanted to expand to 12?  The Big 10 want 12 (I know that sounds stupid) so they could have a conference football championship game, but for basketball, 10 teams seems like a good number.  Allows a full round robin schedule of 18 games that works very well, IMO (this is why I'm hoping the new Big East stays at 10).

I understand why the MVC wants to replace Creighton quickly ... but expanding to 12 by adding teams with little or no NCAA tournament success in the last 25 years is just adding more mouths to feed from a fixed budget.  It's the same reason the Horizon didn't go out and add Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI to replace Butler when they left.

I don't have a real opinion ... I'm just curious why people think the MVC would choose to go to 12 at this time.

[agibson]

I want to clarify, as I did on Twitter, that I stand by my sources, as does Rob Demovsky on his.

I also want to clarify that I know nothing of Valpo's visit or if the MVC is going to 12.  The only separate thing I heard was that Loyola's visit "went well."

I don't know a thing about you, apart from your posts here, and your pantheru site.  I assume "dedicated fan, blogger." 

In that context, I find it pretty hilarious that the Press Gazette, and then multiple media sources, ran with a story based on your tweets.

It'll be very interesting if the story turns out to be true - and hopefully an HL beat reporter in Demoskvy would have a couple of decent sources before running with the story.  But, it'll be pretty funny if it all disappears in a puff of smoke.

I mean, I suppose it happens all the time.  But, not usually this close to home!

[classof2014]

The main reason I see the MVC wanting 12 is security in numbers. Since in the blink of an eye 2 or 3 teams can defect and leave for somewhere else, being at 9 or 10, like the Horizon, losing 3 teams at once would be disastrous. While having 12 and if 3 teams were to defect it would still hurt but wouldn't completely compromise the integrity of the league. While if the Horizon were to have 3 teams defect it would greatly compromise the integrity, they'd have to look to lower level leagues like the Summit to replace the teams, and then become a low-level mid-major program. While the MVC could possibly recuperate and might not be as strong but wouldn't be considered low-level if they started out with 12 and 2 or 3 left to make 9 or 10.

[agibson]

especially since they won't be sharing in any of the initial NCAA credits

I've not read the whole thread - has the MVC come out and said that?  Or you're just assuming?

Presumably the MVC _could_ let a new team share in the existing credits.

On a related note, is the Horizon League's new formula public?  I heard they revamped their old, egalitarian, formula after Butler's championship runs.

Finally, I'm surprised that the HL buy-out is as high as $1M.  Heck, I'm surprised it was as high as $500k for Butler.

$2M is a significant chunk of change.  I don't know that Valpo'd even be able to decide something like that quickly, unless maybe a donor came forward.

[agibson]

Having at least skimmed the thread, a link or two that I didn't see posted:

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/college/oakland-comments-on-horizon-league
Detroit Fox affiliate (presumably) trying to quash the Oakland story and with some interesting quotes from LeCrone (albeit from last week) on HL expansion, and on MVC pirating.

And Paul Oren confirming the MVC was at Valpo yesterday

Paul Oren ‏@NWIOren 9h
Missouri Valley Conference representatives were on Valparaiso's campus on Wednesday.

[agibson]

A couple of other tidbits.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/wichita-state-gives-mvc-a-shot-in-the-arm/article_a644dcd6-2b34-55a0-8135-1193ab6db8c9.html

Apparently 7 of 9 MVC presidents have to approve any expansion.

And apparently Wichita State's coach is making $1.5M, that _before_ the final four (or beyond?) run.  Seems like a lot. 

The MVC's average basketball budget (2011-12) was only $2.4M.  A bit higher than the Horizon's $2M, but well below the WCC ($2.8M) or A10 ($2.9M).

http://www.midmajority.com/redline

[classof2014]

I don't think we'll officially know anything about Valpo or anybody else going to the MVC for a bit. Everything is really hush hush and very confidential. I wouldn't be surprised to see Valpo wait after the baseball and softball seasons are over to announce publicly and to the Horizon if they are going to the MVC. Would hate to see the senior seasons end for 2 teams that have a legitimate chance of winning the Horizon tournament once again, without having an opportunity to win it all again.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Hmm...10 team upper-middle-major conference...loses its most prestigious member to promotion and is left with 9 and a host of questions.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? -- except for the reaction by each conference; although that is still developing, certainly, we are left with two distinct approaches:  the HL's Fabian strategy and the MVC's gung-ho approach.

My gut feeling is that the older, bigger, and more powerful a conference, the more careful they can afford to be, e.g. the B1G adding Nebraska after a long and careful process; whereas the less powerful tend to -- or need to -- grasp at all the straws they can, as in the case of the Conference Formerly Known As the Big East.  Which was more pathetic than the dude who can't get a date to the prom no matter how many girls he asks.  (I'm fairly certain they'll ask Chicago State to join soon.  You know, that presence in the Chicago media market.)

Those are both BCS conferences (well, one still is), and though here we have the mid-majors, the MVC, generally regarded as better, is the one coming out proactive (or desperate, depending on your point of view) whereas the HL has been proceeding more carefully (or cluelessly, again depending on your point of view).

While it's certainly not as historically important as, say, Neville Chamberlain vs. Winston Churchill, it's about as clear cut, and we'll be able to see in a year, five, and ten, which was the way to go.

[vuweathernerd]

i admit, i'm intrigued by this whole thing. in its marquis sport, basketball, the valley is a step up from the horizon. one league has been a multibid league for several years, while the other has needed an upset in the final to stand a chance of it. and that was before butler left. let's be real - the league took a step back when butler left.

if we are seriously considering such a move (which i think could be a good one), i really think it needs to be paired up with long-term investments towards improvements of all facilities: baseball, softball, swimming, track/field, move soccer over to brown field permanently, basketball, volleyball.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

its marquis sport, basketball

i thought the marquis sport was boxing

[valpopal]

Rob Demovsky, a good sports reporter, informs that sources telling folks about UIC to MVC include the coaches: "UIC coaches are telling people it's a done deal."

[mgovalpo]

One thing to consider for the point of the Valley being a multi-bid league: Of the 10 times since 1999 that the Valley has gotten two or more bids to the tournament, Creighton has gotten one of those multi-bids eight times. With Creighton, the Valley is clearly a stronger league than the HL. Without Creighton, I'm not sure it is quite so clear-cut.

[valpopal]

I don't think we'll officially know anything about Valpo or anybody else going to the MVC for a bit. Everything is really hush hush and very confidential. I wouldn't be surprised to see Valpo wait after the baseball and softball seasons are over to announce publicly and to the Horizon if they are going to the MVC. Would hate to see the senior seasons end for 2 teams that have a legitimate chance of winning the Horizon tournament once again, without having an opportunity to win it all again.

I would be surprised if we didn't get some indications, if not a clear statement of some kind, by the end of this weekend since all the leagues and their coaches are meeting in Atlanta for the Final Four. It would be difficult to keep everyone silent in that environment full of so many reporters.

[a3uge]

ValpoWikileaks is confirming that the MVC is adding Valparaiso University. Source is confirmed. Double confirmed. Ultra confirmed. To the max. If I'm wrong don't blame me, blame my source.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

In all seriousness, facilities upgrades would be insisted upon by MVC officials.

HL 2+ bids: (bold denotes 3 or more)
1989 (Xavier, Evansville)
1990 (Xavier, Dayton)
1993 (Xavier, Evansville)
1995 (Xavier, Green Bay)
1996 (Northern Illinois, Green Bay)
1998 (Detroit, Butler, UIC)
2003 (Butler, Milwaukee)
2007 (Butler, Wright State)
2009 (Butler, Cleveland State)

All-time in the tournament: 31-41 (43.1%)
In the 32 years (since 1982): 42 bids (1.31 a year, or every 4 years an at-large bid)
In the last 20 years: 27 bids (1.35 a year, same)
In the last 10 years: 12 bids (1.2 a year, or every 5 years an at-large bid)

MVC 2+ bids (only going back as far as 1982 for comparison to HL's sake)
1984 (Illinois State, Tulsa)
1985 (Illinois State, Tulsa, Wichita State)
1986 (Tulsa, Bradley)
1987 (Tulsa, Wichita State)
1988 (Bradley, Wichita State)
1994 (Tulsa, Southern Illinois)
1996 (Tulsa, Bradley)
1999 (Creighton, Missouri State, Evansville)
2000 (Creighton, Indiana State)
2001 (Creighton, Indiana State)
2002 (Creighton, Southern Illinois)
2003 (Creighton, Southern Illinois)
2004 (Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois)
2005 (Creighton, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois)
2006 (Wichita State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Bradley)
2007 (Creighton, Southern Illinois)
2012 (Wichita State, Creighton)
2013 (Wichita State, Creighton)

All-time in the tournament: 92-98 (48.4%) ...plus pending loss to Louisville
In the last 32 years:  55 bids (1.72 a year, or about 2 at-large every 3, or 3 every 4 years)
In the last 20 years:  37 bids (1.85 a year, or an at-large about 8 out of 9 years)
In the last 10 years:  19 bids (1.9 a year, or, yeah, 9 years out of 10, but you figured that out)

That last number is especially impressive when you realize that they went 4 straight years without an at-large bid from 2008 through 2011.  4 straight years is now the HL's current streak for missing an at-large.

[classof2014]

ValpoWikileaks is confirming that the MVC is adding Valparaiso University. Source is confirmed. Double confirmed. Ultra confirmed. To the max. If I'm wrong don't blame me, blame my source.

Hope you're right but as we all know anybody who has access to valpowiki can post in it just like wiki. Throughout highschool and college they always said never trust wikipedia... so I'm gonna go with what I've been taught over my schooling history. And believe it when it comes from the mouths of a valpo official, mvc official, or newspaper source then I'll believe it.

[valpotx]

One thing to consider for the point of the Valley being a multi-bid league: Of the 10 times since 1999 that the Valley has gotten two or more bids to the tournament, Creighton has gotten one of those multi-bids eight times. With Creighton, the Valley is clearly a stronger league than the HL. Without Creighton, I'm not sure it is quite so clear-cut.

The MVC is definitely stronger than the HL if you add UIC/Valpo/Loyola to the MVC, and Oakland/UMKC/Denver to the HL.  Again, I am really hoping that our board sees the light at the end of the tunnel in regards to future student enrollment.  Playing in the MVC will keep our school in the news more than the HL, and will also be more likely to keep around the solid coaches we have in our top sports (Men's basketball, baseball, volleyball, soccer, etc).  The only concern I would have is that men's S&D is not sponsored by the MVC, so we would have to drop it as a sport, or put them as an associate member in another conference.  Since our S&D teams have always been terrible, that shouldn't factor into any decision, as the Summit and MAC appear to have associate members in S&D without any issues.

Plus, we NEED to move to the MVC so I can watch Valpo baseball play several miles away from me at Dallas Baptist (added for baseball next season)!!!! 

[agibson]

I would be surprised if we didn't get some indications, if not a clear statement of some kind, by the end of this weekend since all the leagues and their coaches are meeting in Atlanta for the Final Four. It would be difficult to keep everyone silent in that environment full of so many reporters.

Demovsky seems pretty intent on spilling the beans, if noone else does.  But, I'm not sure he's in Atlanta?

[agibson]

Again, I am really hoping that our board sees the light at the end of the tunnel in regards to future student enrollment.

A Final Four run would be good for student enrollment.  But MVC vs. Horizon League?  It's not a slam dunk for me.  There's an argument to be made, for sure.  But the impact's not black and white, even for me, a fan.  There's a fairly plausible story (albeit with pros and cons) that you could construct about the future of men's basketball.  Which plays an important role at VU, for sure (though how important to the president and board?).   But selling it as an important part of the path to 6,000 students?  I'm not so sure.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Hope you're right but as we all know anybody who has access to valpowiki can post in it just like wiki.

Pretty sure he was just being sarcastic/funny.
Wikipedia

And tex, saying the MVC is definitely stronger when adding UIC/Loyola/VU...is like saying your cheerleading team got more attractive when adding the Kardashian sisters.  I mean, we're clearly Kim, but ye gods, after that... (shuddering inconsolably)