Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[valpotx]

The more times we get to the various NCAA tourneys, the better.  Each time we are on TV, the better.  Both of these issues are addressed in the MVC receiving multiple bids in MULTIPLE sports over the last decade.  Though we would really have to step up in some of these other sports (MVC baseball has some very strong teams), we can do so, as we have over the last 20 years regardless of league. 

Yes, Butler's massive increase in applicants was due to back-to-back championship games, but keeping in front of the eyes of wide-eyed teenagers by being on TV, is huge for student enrollment.  All of this publicity Valpo generated this year by getting back to the tourney needs to keep going by making the jump while we can, instead of being the one abandoned like we were in the Mid-Con.  As great as it was to make the tourney just about every year, we were still not given much respect in the public eye in those following years.  Winning in the MVC, that would gain us the respect we very much crave.  We do not want to be in a league with the likes of UMKC, IUPUI, IPFW.  The latter two would happen if YSU or Detroit leave in the coming years as well...

[valpotx]

Of course the MVC would be stronger with just us, not all 3.  It was my intent to say that moving to a league with the two Chicago schools, is better than staying in one where you lose that connection, and then add only Oakland/UMKC/Denver.

[classof2014]

I don't think it compromises the MVC that much if it adds Loyola and UIC because of the nice facilities. Even though I don't think it's a good idea, because time and time again if you add a team based on what you think they can achieve typically doesn't work out. While the MVC knows that Valpo has the ability to achieve. Back to my original point having Loyola and UIC would hurt the MVC too much because they will still have WSI, IL St, IN St, Bradley, IN St, etc... All adding UIC and Loyola will be doing is adding some W's to the schedule and honestly I like seeing those W's and we will still be playing the upper-level competitions so we need as many as those W's as we can get.

[agibson]

Each time we are on TV, the better.  Both of these issues are addressed in the MVC

Is there TV deal really any better?  Maybe, as was pointed out, it's not fair to compare to the Horizon's _current_ (Butler influenced) deal. 

But, it sounds like we're trading a bunch of ESPN appearances (OK, a lot of them just ESPN3 or ESPNU) and the beauty that is HLN for a couple of ESPN appearances, a shot at a CBS appearance and a bunch of regional cable games.

The Horizon doesn't look so bad there.  (OK, maybe the comparison doesn't look as good if the ESPN waters us down post-Butler.)

[blackpantheruwm]

Hope you're right but as we all know anybody who has access to valpowiki can post in it just like wiki.

Pretty sure he was just being sarcastic/funny.
And tex, saying the MVC is definitely stronger when adding UIC/Loyola/VU...is like saying your cheerleading team got more attractive when adding the Kardashian sisters.  I mean, we're clearly Kim, but ye gods, after that... (shuddering inconsolably)

Am I the only one who thinks Kourtney is the hot one?

[VULB#62]

Just askin':

If the cash outlay is in the $2 million ballpark for HL exit fees and MVC entrance fees.   And if Valpo can write those checks today and transition it's athletic program to the MVC with its increase operational costs over night.  How come we couldn't build the freakin track for the last umpteen years?

Like I said:  Just askin'     

[bbtds]

its marquis sport, basketball

i thought the marquis sport was boxing

marquis de sol? marquis de sade? marquis de lafayette? marquis da bulls(via pike hs & KY)? marquis marc? marquis barnes(ORU)?

[usc4valpo]

Agree with you a 100% on that one. Val

A couple of issues:
1. Chicago exposure is not a true positive.  In Chicago, few people care about UIC and Loyola basketball.  They get very little coverage from the media.  The media pay more (but not much) attention to Northwestern and DePaul.  One other fact is that in general, Chicago is a terrible college basketball town, and it will take several years for a turnaround to happen, if it does happen.
2. For Valpo to join the MVC, they need to upgrade their facilities.

[usc4valpo]

I don't think we'll officially know anything about Valpo or anybody else going to the MVC for a bit. Everything is really hush hush and very confidential. I wouldn't be surprised to see Valpo wait after the baseball and softball seasons are over to announce publicly and to the Horizon if they are going to the MVC. Would hate to see the senior seasons end for 2 teams that have a legitimate chance of winning the Horizon tournament once again, without having an opportunity to win it all again.

??  The process of joining another conference could take awhile.  I think the baseball and softball teams will finsih out their seasons in the Horizon this year.

[bbtds]

I don't think we'll officially know anything about Valpo or anybody else going to the MVC for a bit. Everything is really hush hush and very confidential. I wouldn't be surprised to see Valpo wait after the baseball and softball seasons are over to announce publicly and to the Horizon if they are going to the MVC. Would hate to see the senior seasons end for 2 teams that have a legitimate chance of winning the Horizon tournament once again, without having an opportunity to win it all again.

??  The process of joining another conference could take awhile.  I think the baseball and softball teams will finsih out their seasons in the Horizon this year.

Not in this day and age of 2012 & 2013. Butler moved from the Horizon League to the A-10 in the summer of 2012. Butler will move from the A-10 to the Big East (not the American Athletic Conf, the AAC, not the ACC, which is the new name of the Old Big East, got it?) over this summer of 2013.

If ML tells the Horizon League that Valpo is moving to the MVC for the 2013-14 year they could make the Valpo baseball and softball teams ineligible for the HL championships. The HL was going to do this to Butler for 2012-13 and is the reason Butler left for the A-10 in 2012 instead of 2013. The way to do this now is to announce the move and complete the move all in one summer.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Am I the only one who thinks Kourtney is the hot one?

Yes.

marquis de sol? marquis de sade? marquis de lafayette? marquis da bulls(via pike hs & KY)? marquis marc? marquis barnes(ORU)?

I was thinking the Marquis de Queensberry, although marquess is the English spelling (marquis the French).  A couple people keep writing "marquis" when they mean "marquee", kind of like how some people have glandular issues that cause them to lie prostate   (Nice job on the last one, bro!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Queensberry_Rules

The way to do this now is to announce the move and complete the move all in one summer.

One motion, right off!  (Seinfeld)

[vuweathernerd]

Am I the only one who thinks Kourtney is the hot one?

Yes.

marquis de sol? marquis de sade? marquis de lafayette? marquis da bulls(via pike hs & KY)? marquis marc? marquis barnes(ORU)?

I was thinking the Marquis de Queensberry, although marquess is the English spelling (marquis the French).  A couple people keep writing "marquis" when they mean "marquee", kind of like how some people have glandular issues that cause them to lie prostate   (Nice job on the last one, bro!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Queensberry_Rules

The way to do this now is to announce the move and complete the move all in one summer.

One motion, right off!  (Seinfeld)

yeah, definitely jacked that up, and apparently managed to slightly hijack the thread. my apologies. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

dude, you weren't even the first, so no sweats!  life is good.

Now when people start "honing in" on things, THAT'S when I get unhinged

[milanmiracle]

I want to clarify, as I did on Twitter, that I stand by my sources, as does Rob Demovsky on his.

I also want to clarify that I know nothing of Valpo's visit or if the MVC is going to 12.  The only separate thing I heard was that Loyola's visit "went well."

I have no sources, so I'll just ask questions.  The MVC has been at 10 teams for a while, so why would they suddenly wanted to expand to 12?  The Big 10 want 12 (I know that sounds stupid) so they could have a conference football championship game, but for basketball, 10 teams seems like a good number.  Allows a full round robin schedule of 18 games that works very well, IMO (this is why I'm hoping the new Big East stays at 10).

I understand why the MVC wants to replace Creighton quickly ... but expanding to 12 by adding teams with little or no NCAA tournament success in the last 25 years is just adding more mouths to feed from a fixed budget.  It's the same reason the Horizon didn't go out and add Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI to replace Butler when they left.

I don't have a real opinion ... I'm just curious why people think the MVC would choose to go to 12 at this time.

One thing to consider for the point of the Valley being a multi-bid league: Of the 10 times since 1999 that the Valley has gotten two or more bids to the tournament, Creighton has gotten one of those multi-bids eight times. With Creighton, the Valley is clearly a stronger league than the HL. Without Creighton, I'm not sure it is quite so clear-cut.

Um, I guess Creighton is in the Final 4? Hmm...while Horizon League champ was getting doubled up by halftime in the first round, Wichita State is trying to win a national title. Take Butler out of the HL equation, and the results aren't so pretty.

[crusaderjoe]

I don't think we'll officially know anything about Valpo or anybody else going to the MVC for a bit. Everything is really hush hush and very confidential. I wouldn't be surprised to see Valpo wait after the baseball and softball seasons are over to announce publicly and to the Horizon if they are going to the MVC. Would hate to see the senior seasons end for 2 teams that have a legitimate chance of winning the Horizon tournament once again, without having an opportunity to win it all again.

??  The process of joining another conference could take awhile.  I think the baseball and softball teams will finsih out their seasons in the Horizon this year.

Not in this day and age of 2012 & 2013. Butler moved from the Horizon League to the A-10 in the summer of 2012. Butler will move from the A-10 to the Big East (not the American Athletic Conf, the AAC, not the ACC, which is the new name of the Old Big East, got it?) over this summer of 2013.

If ML tells the Horizon League that Valpo is moving to the MVC for the 2013-14 year they could make the Valpo baseball and softball teams ineligible for the HL championships. The HL was going to do this to Butler for 2012-13 and is the reason Butler left for the A-10 in 2012 instead of 2013. The way to do this now is to announce the move and complete the move all in one summer.

I understand where you are coming from but I'm not sure I agree with you from a professional standpoint. IMO, VU should give notice if they leave the HL. Athletic schedules have to be created well in advance of the summer.  A notification that late will leave conference members who are left behind potentially scrambling, particularly if the move is for next season.  If the MVC adds a team or teams for the 2013 year, I would imagine notification would have to be made public well before the summer given the intricacies with scheduling.  Yes, you do run the risk of losing out on baseball or softball championships, but you are also acting ethically and in a favorable light to both your current and new conference.

[vusupporter]

I don't recall seeing any situation when a school announced their intention to change leagues in the middle of the school year, and their conference declared them immediately ineligible for titles in ongoing sports.

[wh]

I want to clarify, as I did on Twitter, that I stand by my sources, as does Rob Demovsky on his.

I also want to clarify that I know nothing of Valpo's visit or if the MVC is going to 12.  The only separate thing I heard was that Loyola's visit "went well."

I have no sources, so I'll just ask questions.  The MVC has been at 10 teams for a while, so why would they suddenly wanted to expand to 12?  The Big 10 want 12 (I know that sounds stupid) so they could have a conference football championship game, but for basketball, 10 teams seems like a good number.  Allows a full round robin schedule of 18 games that works very well, IMO (this is why I'm hoping the new Big East stays at 10).

I understand why the MVC wants to replace Creighton quickly ... but expanding to 12 by adding teams with little or no NCAA tournament success in the last 25 years is just adding more mouths to feed from a fixed budget.  It's the same reason the Horizon didn't go out and add Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI to replace Butler when they left.

I don't have a real opinion ... I'm just curious why people think the MVC would choose to go to 12 at this time.

1. ...because people find it impossible to believe that if the MVC was only going to add 1 team to replace its marquee program, it would be UIC
2. ...because LeCrone publically stated the the MVC is interested in 3 programs from the HL

As to your point about "more mouths to feed" with a 12-team league instead of 10, you are absolutely right.  Without Creighton the MVC is strictly a 1-bid league - with the 9 teams they have.  Valpo has NEVER had an at-large resume in its entire D-1 history - EVER.  If we were the one and only program the MVC was considering to replace Creighton (and we're not), our presence in the MVC would do nothing to suddenly make it a 2-bid league.  THEN---add bottom feeding Loyola and UIC to the mix to pull down everyone's RPI further, and they will bury the MVC's chance to become a 2-bid league.  That's the reality whether anyone wants to accept it or not. 

The bottom line is Valpo will be going from a league with a 1 in 9 chance to to the NCAA tournament to a league with a 1 in 12 chance.  The only reason to pull the trigger IMO is that it appears that the HL could become so watered down with the Fort Wayne's and IUPUI's of the low major world that the HL could become a low level joke, or even worse it could fall apart and leave us scrambling.  That may be  enough of a reason in itself, but other than that being a part of a watered down, 1-bid, 12-team MVC is nothing to get excited about.   

[zvillehaze]

I don't recall seeing any situation when a school announced their intention to change leagues in the middle of the school year, and their conference declared them immediately ineligible for titles in ongoing sports.

It happened two weeks ago.  http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8500&ATCLID=206916860

[classof2014]

THEN---add bottom feeding Loyola and UIC to the mix to pull down everyone's RPI further, and they will bury the MVC's chance to become a 2-bid league.  That's the reality whether anyone wants to accept it or not.

I can still see the MVC being a two bid league in the future. Yes, chances are accepting UIC, and possibly Loyola could hurt the chances somewhat but I still think that they have enough good programs that will still play each other twice a season that the 4 games against Loyola and UIC will be averaged out. Games against No IA, WSU, IN St, IL St, etc... will still look good on any schedule.

I also think the chances of a two bid league is much more likely out of the MVC, the Horizon just doesn't look the same without Butler and the only times the Horizon was a 2 bid league was when Butler got the at-large bid because they lost in the conference tournament. Losing Creighton does hurt the MVC but it doesn't hurt them as much as when Butler left the Horizon. The Horizon only had two upper-level mid-major programs this season in Valpo and Detroit. While the MVC still has WSU, IN St, IL St, and No IA. I still see the MVC consistently having two-plus bids in the future, maybe not every season like with Creighton but they will still be an elite mid-major conference. Also, I don't see accepting UIC and Loyola (possibly) hurting those chances too much. While the Horizon is a perennial one bid league unless one team greatly improves, to a Butlerlike level, over the next few seasons.

[agibson]

It happened two weeks ago.  http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8500&ATCLID=206916860

With a $1M exit fee there, as well.

[agibson]

I also think the chances of a two bid league is much more likely out of the MVC, the Horizon just doesn't look the same without Butler and the only times the Horizon was a 2 bid league was when Butler got the at-large bid because they lost in the conference tournament.

Since 99, anyway.  Detroit, UIC, and Green Bay have all had at-large bids before.  All in 1995-98 in fact.  And Milwaukee's gotten at-large quality seeds even more recently.  Only to mention current members of the Horizon League.

And, as for the Valley, we don't have to look back so far.

Without Creighton the MVC is strictly a 1-bid league - with the 9 teams they have.

Would this year's Wichita State team have fallen out of at-large contention without Creighton in the mix?  I think it's not so clear as that... 

Or would Wichita State, which got an at-large 5 seed last year, really have been left out?

You want multiple at-large caliber teams?  Northern Iowa in 2010.  Drake in 2008.  SIU in 2007.  4 bids in 2006, including a 7 and a 10, none of them to Creighton.

Basically, it seems to me that both leagues have been multi-bid before.  Even in down years for Butler and Creighton.  There are multiple programs in both leagues that have been capable of getting at-large consideration.   We do, admittedly, have to go back a bit further in time for the Horizon Legaue to convincingly demonstrate that.

[crusaderjoe]

I want to clarify, as I did on Twitter, that I stand by my sources, as does Rob Demovsky on his.

I also want to clarify that I know nothing of Valpo's visit or if the MVC is going to 12.  The only separate thing I heard was that Loyola's visit "went well."

I have no sources, so I'll just ask questions.  The MVC has been at 10 teams for a while, so why would they suddenly wanted to expand to 12?  The Big 10 want 12 (I know that sounds stupid) so they could have a conference football championship game, but for basketball, 10 teams seems like a good number.  Allows a full round robin schedule of 18 games that works very well, IMO (this is why I'm hoping the new Big East stays at 10).

I understand why the MVC wants to replace Creighton quickly ... but expanding to 12 by adding teams with little or no NCAA tournament success in the last 25 years is just adding more mouths to feed from a fixed budget.  It's the same reason the Horizon didn't go out and add Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI to replace Butler when they left.

I don't have a real opinion ... I'm just curious why people think the MVC would choose to go to 12 at this time.

1. ...because people find it impossible to believe that if the MVC was only going to add 1 team to replace its marquee program, it would be UIC
2. ...because LeCrone publically stated the the MVC is interested in 3 programs from the HL

As to your point about "more mouths to feed" with a 12-team league instead of 10, you are absolutely right.  Without Creighton the MVC is strictly a 1-bid league - with the 9 teams they have.  Valpo has NEVER had an at-large resume in its entire D-1 history - EVER.  If we were the one and only program the MVC was considering to replace Creighton (and we're not), our presence in the MVC would do nothing to suddenly make it a 2-bid league.  THEN---add bottom feeding Loyola and UIC to the mix to pull down everyone's RPI further, and they will bury the MVC's chance to become a 2-bid league.  That's the reality whether anyone wants to accept it or not. 

The bottom line is Valpo will be going from a league with a 1 in 9 chance to to the NCAA tournament to a league with a 1 in 12 chance.  The only reason to pull the trigger IMO is that it appears that the HL could become so watered down with the Fort Wayne's and IUPUI's of the low major world that the HL could become a low level joke, or even worse it could fall apart and leave us scrambling.  That may be  enough of a reason in itself, but other than that being a part of a watered down, 1-bid, 12-team MVC is nothing to get excited about.

Not sure I agree he is absolutely right with respect to more mouths to feed.  IMO, we don't know whether a 12 team MVC in and of itself will dilute annual payouts per team per year.  Hypothetically, the Chicago market may provide the conference with an increased media presence resulting in additional dollars to the conference without tournament appearances from any Chicagoland schools.  Just the expansion of the market might provide net worth, meaning, in other words, if a network wants "it", the conference still has the potential to make money if it moves to 12--whether or not any of the three schools are actually media relevant in that respective market.  I know it's apples and oranges, but there is a reason why the Big Ten accepted Maryland and Rutgers even though they haven't been exactly world-beaters on the football field.  Rutgers gets them into the NYC market somewhat even though RU may not be exactly relevant there.

[classof2014]

Hypothetically, the Chicago market may provide the conference with an increased media presence resulting in additional dollars to the conference without tournament appearances from any Chicagoland schools.  Just the expansion of the market might provide net worth, meaning, in other words, if a network wants "it", the conference still has the potential to make money if it moves to 12--whether or not any of the three schools are actually media relevant in that respective market.

Couldn't agree with you more on that fact. You literally have the whole Chicagoland covered pretty much, North (LU), West (UIC), and South (Valpo). And by having 3 teams there is that much more of a chance of a team doing well in a major city and bringing in major dollars. If any of the 3 teams raise their level of play while in the MVC, this will bring in a substantial portion of the MVC's revenue. I think out of those 3 teams, Valpo currently has the best chance of doing that but both UIC and Loyola are larger schools so they naturally will have more potential followers, and being in a better conference might bring many of those UIC and Loyola alumni out of the closet.

[oklahomamick]

Only being 8 teams strong and Detroit your best team, not good for the Horizon.

Detroit has one more year of being good, then they go back to where they've been for 10-12 years. 

[historyman]

Am I the only one who thinks Kourtney is the hot one?

Yes.

marquis de sol? marquis de sade? marquis de lafayette? marquis da bulls(via pike hs & KY)? marquis marc? marquis barnes(ORU)?

I was thinking the Marquis de Queensberry, although marquess is the English spelling (marquis the French).  A couple people keep writing "marquis" when they mean "marquee", kind of like how some people have glandular issues that cause them to lie prostate   (Nice job on the last one, bro!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Queensberry_Rules

The way to do this now is to announce the move and complete the move all in one summer.

One motion, right off!  (Seinfeld)

Yes, when I was a kid we would always check the marquis to see what movie was playing at the Premier Theater.