Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[wh]

They could have had better basketball now with UIC...

Lol

What's so funny?  Obviously I was comparing UIC to Loyola.  I didn't say we had good basketball.  I'm the first to admit we've had absolute sh!t basketball.  But we've been better than Loyola.  If you think otherwise, I'd love for you to break it down for me.

Loyola has had 7 losing seasons in the past 10 years vs. D-1 opponents.  YSU has had the most in the league at 8, but have had winning seasons in each of the past 2 years. In effect, the MVC just "poached" the worst program or 2nd worst program in the HL, depending on how you look at it.  The MVC thinks it got a diamond in the rough.  So be it.  From a HL standpoint, we just lost a bottom feeding program, while maintaining a presence in the Chicago market.  We could have a lot worse problems to deal with than replacing Loyola.   

[LaPorteAveApostle]

We could have a lot worse problems to deal with than replacing Loyola.   

...as we say in Naples, "99 problems, but the beach ain't one".

[covufan]

In a conference filled with large state schools, Duke (A small private school) has really struggled in basketball and other sports as well.

USC and Stanford appear to do OK in their conference as well. 

[VULB#62]

In a conference filled with large state schools, Duke (A small private school) has really struggled in basketball and other sports as well.

USC and Stanford appear to do OK in their conference as well.

For Grins:  UG Enrollments in Pvt schools by big-time conference.

ACC -- Wake 4,815,  Duke 6,484, Notre Dame 8,371, BC 9,088, Miami 10,368, Syracuse 14,798, Pitt 18,400
B1G -- NU 8,400
Big 12 -- TCU 9,725, Baylor 12,575
SEC -- Vandy 6,700
PAC-12 -- Stanford 7,000, USC  17,400

[a3uge]

They could have had better basketball now with UIC...

Lol

What's so funny?  Obviously I was comparing UIC to Loyola.  I didn't say we had good basketball.  I'm the first to admit we've had absolute sh!t basketball.  But we've been better than Loyola.  If you think otherwise, I'd love for you to break it down for me.

It's comparing rotten apples to rotten apples.

Taking a full recruiting class cycle:
UIC's last 4 year RPI average: 263
Loyola's last 4 year RPI average: 236

Here's the RPI's over the last 4 years:
UIC: 169 299 291 291
Loyola: 222 310 197 213

Those are pretty terrible. In at least 6 years, there hasn't been a single MVC school to drop worse than a 275 RPI. UIC managed to do that three seasons in a row. Loyola pulling 300+ RPI is also horrible. Sagarin ratings had UIC worse than Loyola in each of the past 4 seasons (even this year). Same thing for the Kenpoms. BPI had UIC slightly better this year.

So which school has had better basketball? Does it really matter? It's like debating whether it's better to raise a family in East St. Louis or Camden.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

you know, i'm pretty happy being myself, but if i were going to be anyone else on this board, i would pick a3uge in a flat second.

[VU2014]

Remember when Valpo was being considered for the MVC?

Just for the sake of good conversation. Why does everyone think we didn't we get an invite? And could it still happen? If so when is the time frame? Sorry if this Thread brings back painful memories but its 4 years old and its interesting to look back at what folks were saying then.

Just saw this article in the Tribune Star, from when Valpo played in December. The writer discusses if Valpo is a fit for the MVC.

DOWN IN THE VALLEY: Valparaiso musings
By Todd Aaron Golden Tribune-Star • Valparaiso  Dec 18, 2016
ISU-Valpo
Tribune-Star/Todd Golden

— It was my first trip to the Athletic and Recreation Center, the ARC as Valparaiso calls it. Until Saturday, it was the only Indiana Division I gym I hadn't been to. ISU dropped Valpo back in my early days on the beat. Why did ISU and Valpo not play for nearly a decade? To be honest, part of it was that Royce Waltman had zero use for long-time Valpo coach Homer Drew, and that's probably all I should say about that!

The ARC is a blend of Drake's Knapp Center and Eastern Illinois' Lantz Arena. That's not really a compliment. However, unlike either of those gyms (apart from 2007-08 at Drake), the atmosphere was better and credit to the Region residents (or Region Rats are they affectionately call themselves, but perhaps don't like being called by others) for ignoring the falling and eventually heavier snow that came down during the game.

Would Valpo fit in the MVC? I'm not sure. If Loyola is the standard, then I suppose Valpo fits. They're nominally in the Chicago market, although Valpo is long drive from Chicago proper (not even accounting for Dan Ryan or Skyway traffic), and count not a blip as far as Chicago's sports fans or media is concerned (though both NW Indiana dailies cover the Crusaders).

Unlike Loyola, Valpo has a recent tradition of winning, and seemingly, more enthusiasm. Their RPI is sky-high right now, and certainly on-the-court, the current Crusaders would be immediate MVC contenders.

Like Loyola, Valpo has a friendly vibe, right down to having one of the nuns help with pregame ceremonies.

Valpo would have a long way to go. The ARC would immediately be in last place in terms of basketball facilities. It's clear not much has been done to it since the 1980s. If WSU leaves, Valpo would certainly be on the expansion list again, as it was in 2013, but I think the MVC needs to spread its wings a bit too. If the MVC has to expand again, it shouldn't be a one-horse show anyway. I would bump membership up to 12.

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/down-in-the-valley-valparaiso-musings/article_b299c020-c4f8-11e6-bdfc-c78e07bf372c.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[oklahomamick]

current conference rankings have MVC as 12, summit league 17 and the HL 18.  Take Wichita St (78) out and they are closer to the Summit and HL.  Take Valpo (61) out and the HL is closer to the #21 Patriot League. 

Regardless, the tournament would be at a more neutral location.  The competitiveness of the league may not be huge but the moving of the conference tournament is a big enough reason to leave. 

[VU2014]

current conference rankings have MVC as 12, summit league 17 and the HL 18.  Take Wichita St (78) out and they are closer to the Summit and HL.  Take Valpo (61) out and the HL is closer to the #21 Patriot League. 

Regardless, the tournament would be at a more neutral location.  The competitiveness of the league may not be huge but the moving of the conference tournament is a big enough reason to leave.

I wish I could have a brutally honest conversation with Mark LaBarbera on the state of conference shifting and the state of the Horizon League and the potential of moving conferences. I respect the hell out of ML and doing what he's doing with the resources (or lack thereof) that the administration is giving him. A $250million fundraising and not a dime goes to your athletic department for new infrastructure to help better your athletics programs which is great PR for the schools reputation when their Men's basketball program does well.  If I ever win the lotto, I'd write a big fat check and say this goes towards a new or major renovation of the ARC (but before I'd sign the check I'd want a commitment from the top to get the ball rolling on it.)

I would just love to sit down with ML and have a brutally honest talk conferences and what the realities are.

[vu72]

As far fetched as it may seem, the A-10 is a much better conference and fit for Valpo.  In the Sagarin's the A-10 is ranked 8th while The Valley is 10th.  The Horizon? 20th.  The A-10 has 6 schools ranked in the top 100 while The Valley has 2 just like the Horizon. Valpo is currently ranked 80th.

The A-10 has 10 private school members and 4 public while The Valley has 4 private and 6 public.  From that standpoint both would be a much better fit than The Horizon.

Athletically, we would do fine in either conference.  In the last five years we have had seven different team participate in the NCAA tournaments.

[cornonthe]

I believe that VU lost the chance to get into the MVC because of the lack of adequate practice and strength facilities. The arena seems to have not been a factor considering Loyola's arena size and the MVC's lack of concern about it. As for if we should accept a potential offer from them, it depends...if we are just replacing Wichita State, then no...unless there is a marked improvement in the quality of the remaining schools. If we are being added because they want to have 12 or more teams and Wichita State is staying, then I say YES!!! As for if we are a fit in the A-10, yes, but I don't see us getting an invite unless there is a wholesale purge of schools...and even then, they may like other coastal schools over us.

[bigmosmithfan1]

The A-10 has 10 private school members and 4 public while The Valley has 4 private and 6 public.

I've actually thought this myself. Obviously, the Valley is a much better fit geographically and would be a terrific upgrade. But if an A-10 opportunity presented itself, Valpo should definitely pursue, for these reasons exactly. Also, while VU needs renovations to the ARC to be considered by any other league, the A-10 has a bunch of facilities in the same size range as VU (GW, Duquesne, St. Bona) or even smaller (St. Joe's, Fordham, LaSalle).

The arena seems to have not been a factor considering Loyola's arena size and the MVC's lack of concern about it.

The arena size might not have been a factor, but the fact that the Gentile Arena was completely gutted and rebuilt from the ground up into a sparkling new facility (with a brand new seating bowl, new concourses, concessions, corporate and group entertainment areas and a state-of-the-art weight room) certainly was.

[usc4valpo]

It is way past due that a stadium renovation is required and it can be a great facility for all students to use. I cannot understand how Valpo has such limited funding.

[M]

It's a fact that the top reason they took Loyola was picked was due to them being in Chicago.

[usc4valpo]

Loyola also has better facilities than Valpo also. This needs to be addressed in order for Valpo to remain competitive

[M]

Newer/updated facilities would be nice and I hope to see more threads on this topic.

[a3uge]

Keep in mind, this was BEFORE Valpo's second NCAA appearance while in the Horizon. Valpo had won the regular season twice, but hadn't won a single postseason game since the 90s (not counting the CBI win vs Washington). Valpo hadn't yet shown great consistently in men's basketball yet, let alone other sports that still struggle to this day.

True, their Loyola pick was assanine, and Valpo would probably have been an at-large for their conference by now (generating millions in terms of NCAA units), but Valpo hadn't really shown the league dominance yet.

Valpo's in a much better place now than it was in 2013, and has shown it can consistently win the league. They've beat ranked team (wish I could pluralize this lol) and NCAA at large teams. They've played NCAA tournament games at least close, and had success in the NIT.

Still haven't won an NCAA tourney game, but in the MVC, Valpo wouldn't have to worry about having multiple massive RPI drags and could be in better play for an at large. I think the MVC missed out back then, facilities be damned.

[a3uge]

Newer/updated facilities would be nice and I hope to see more threads on this topic.

Has this ever been discussed before?

[vu72]

Let me take a fresh (as of tonight) shot at this.  I was just watching the Santa Clara game and thought it was live until the half lasted about 2 minutes.  So I looked at the Santa Clara website and found the following:  Santa Clara, who plays is the big time West Coast Conference with Gonzaga and St. Mary's, is a school with 5385 undergrads and was ranked by U.S. World Report similarly to Valpo, (No. 2 in West Regional Universities)

They have an endowment of $760 million (as of 2013) and just received a $100 million gift for STEM (wow!)  So you would think that playing in the West Coast with a bigger enrollment than Valpo and a much bigger endowment would suggest first class athletic facilities.  I watched the game.  The place looks nice but seats only 4700 and the attendance for a conference game against Loyola Marymount?  1,793.  Oh, by the way, they spent $26 million in 2000-2202for renovations to their 4700 seat facility.  What would that cost today???

We are in a much better place with fan support and quality of team.  We just aren't going to leverage our endowment to put $50 million into ARC renovations when we can't pack the current facility which proves continually to be a VERY difficult place for our visitors to play and/or win.

[VU2014]

$26 million in 2002 with inflation conversion to 2016 would be about $35,000,000.

Keep in mind $26 million in Indiana goes much much further then it does in California for multiple factors: unions, much more regulation and red tape, etc. all greatly increase the cost of major construction projects.

Nicer facilities aren't the end all be all, but it certainly helps your chances to get into a better conference (will earn more $ down the road), attract better recruits (leads to deeper tourney runs = more $), better fan/alumni/student experience (better products means more butts in the seats), builds excitement in the fan base. Better basketball program adds more cache to the school (I can't tell you how many people know Valpo outside the Midwest just because the Basketball program).

Investing in academics always is the most important thing and always will be. I would just like to see President Heckler and the Board of Directors make a stronger push (or just any push...) to support its athletics or at least its bread winning sport the Men's basketball team. I came to Valpo in 2010 and since then I haven't really seen a strong backing by the administration to invest in the team. Since 2010 we've seen quite a bit of success for a mid-major program. I'd like the administration to ride the wave and back it a little more...

The couple main projects I've seen are the new Homer Drew Court which is very nice. The Track which was a very nice (and badly needed) gesture by an Alumni. I'm probably forgetting a thing or two. Mark LaBarbera is a great AD and I think has done everything he can do with the resources provided to him.

[usc4valpo]

Vu2014 is very correct with his assessment. The basketball team has had great success and certainly helped Valpo's name recognition. I think the university needs to give some love back with some significant ARC renovations. If not, we will fall behind, and if not careful, fall back to the 80's. The university administration should not take the success of the basketball program for granted.

Again, what is Valpo's endowment? Are we that poor?

[vu72]

Vu2014 is very correct with his assessment. The basketball team has had great success and certainly helped Valpo's name recognition. I think the university needs to give some love back with some significant ARC renovations. If not, we will fall behind, and if not careful, fall back to the 80's. The university administration should not take the success of the basketball program for granted.

Again, what is Valpo's endowment? Are we that poor?

A couple of things. First, the Administration is committed to the basketball program.  Can we afford 50 million on an ARC renovation?  Probably not for the foreseeable future particularly given the need for a field house first.  But, in case you didn't know it , Valpo was paying Bryce close to $500,000 and he was the highest paid employee at Valpo including President Heckler.

Here is something I posted last night on a different thread.  Spending money won't be enough to get us where we want to be, witness Santa Clara:

Let me take a fresh (as of tonight) shot at this.  I was just watching the Santa Clara game and thought it was live until the half lasted about 2 minutes.  So I looked at the Santa Clara website and found the following:  Santa Clara, who plays is the big time West Coast Conference with Gonzaga and St. Mary's, is a school with 5385 undergrads and was ranked by U.S. World Report similarly to Valpo, (No. 2 in West Regional Universities)

They have an endowment of $760 million (as of 2013) and just received a $100 million gift for STEM (wow!)  So you would think that playing in the West Coast with a bigger enrollment than Valpo and a much bigger endowment would suggest first class athletic facilities.  I watched the game.  The place looks nice but seats only 4700 and the attendance for a conference game against Loyola Marymount?  1,793.  Oh, by the way, they spent $26 million in 2000-2202 for renovations to their 4700 seat facility.  What would that cost today???

We are in a much better place with fan support and quality of team.  We just aren't going to leverage our endowment to put $50 million into ARC renovations when we can't pack the current facility which proves continually to be a VERY difficult place for our visitors to play and/or win.

[VU2014]

Again, what is Valpo's endowment? Are we that poor?

Valparaiso University endowment is $204 million as of 2015. More then Butler ($190.2M).

Renovations don't necessarily need to come from the endowment. Under President Heckler we have seen some amazing fundraising and extraordinary generosity from Alumni.

Say the fundraising goal is $20M renovation fundraising with a target date in 5 years. That is a very achievable goal in my opinion. It takes vision and vocal backing from the President Heckler and Board to get it done.

-Current undergrad student enrollment (increasing every year): about 4,500. Shifting of $20 of student tuition every years towards ARC renovations = 4,500 * $20 = 90,000 * 5yrs = $450,000 (puts a dent in fundraising goal).

-Sell naming rights of the ARC. South Dakota State built a new Sports Complex for $66M and sold the naming rights of the stadium for $20M. I wouldn't expect $20M for just renovating the ARC but a decent chunk of change. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/12/usds-new-arena-to-be-called-sanford-coyote-sports-/

-This could be a little controversial but they could sell beer at the concessions. There are much higher margins on a bottle of beer then a pop/soda. More colleges are selling beer at games now and its very profitable. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/beer-wine-sales-college-basketball-games-greg-gaskins

-If the University made it a priority I believe they could find an alumni or two to help take a dent out of the fundraising goal. I would very enthusiastically give a small donation to the cause. I'm not rich but I love Valpo Basketball and I'm willing to invest in our program. I'm sure if the University would proactively pursue the fundraising it and lay out a clear plan and goal many other would be willing to make a small donation.

-Nicer venue means you are more likely to be able to book bigger events like concerts and other events.

[vu72]

Again, what is Valpo's endowment? Are we that poor?

Valparaiso University endowment is $204 million as of 2015. More then Butler ($190.2M).

Renovations don't necessarily need to come from the endowment. Under President Heckler we have seen some amazing fundraising and extraordinary generosity from Alumni.

Say the fundraising goal is $20M renovation fundraising with a target date in 5 years. That is a very achievable goal in my opinion. It takes vision and vocal backing from the President Heckler and Board to get it done.

-Current undergrad student enrollment (increasing every year): about 4,500. Shifting of $20 of student tuition every years towards ARC renovations = 4,500 * $20 = 90,000 * 5yrs = $450,000 (puts a dent in fundraising goal).

-Sell naming rights of the ARC. South Dakota State built a new Sports Complex for $66M and sold the naming rights of the stadium for $20M. I wouldn't expect $20M for just renovating the ARC but a decent chunk of change. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/12/usds-new-arena-to-be-called-sanford-coyote-sports-/

-This could be a little controversial but they could sell beer at the concessions. There are much higher margins on a bottle of beer then a pop/soda. More colleges are selling beer at games now and its very profitable. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/beer-wine-sales-college-basketball-games-greg-gaskins

-If the University made it a priority I believe they could find an alumni or two to help take a dent out of the fundraising goal. I would very enthusiastically give a small donation to the cause. I'm not rich but I love Valpo Basketball and I'm willing to invest in our program. I'm sure if the University would proactively pursue the fundraising it and lay out a clear plan and goal many other would be willing to make a small donation.

-Nicer venue means you are more likely to be able to book bigger events like concerts and other events.

Well said.  One small correction:  The undergrad enrollment is not 4500, it is 3183.  Add the 1261 grad and law students and you get to apx 4500.

[vu84v2]

Who here would start or join a group that commits to donating 5% of their pretax income towards improved athletic facilities at Valpo? If you are not willing to do that, you are essentially saying that you want something and you want someone else to pay for it.