Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VU2014]

According the MVC message board, if the mvc had to expand they would like Valpo.  This has been brought up in the past.  The fans and basketball people don't care about Valpo being a small private school.  They don't care about the facilities.  They don't care that our swim team is not competitve. 

They want us because we make the men's basketball league stronger.  They like that we have a top 100 rpi year in and year out.  If the AD's and presidents of the mvc see it that way.....we could get a call.

A couple thoughts:

The fans and basketball people don't care about Valpo being a small private school.

Fan and Basketball people may not care but Presidents and ADs do. They want revenue growth for the conference. Personally I think MVC should get over how small we are because we have a history of a successful Mid-Major and would boost the competitiveness to the Conference and instantly would become a contender in the MVC. Only Trick is that convincing ADs and Presidents.

They don't care about the facilities.

ADs from other schools care. Valpo needs a new pool. Needs to build a field house and needs adequate strength & conditioning facilities.

They don't care that our swim team is not competitive.

We'd have a successful swim team if we built a pool up to NCAA standards. Its flat out embarrassing. There are public schools in the poorest neighborhoods of Chicago that have better aquatic facilities then Valpo (I am not exaggerating when I say that). It's an embarrassment to the Athletics Department. And agreed they don't care about swim teams success. They care about the 'breadwinning' sports competitiveness and overall impact to the conference, AKA Mens Basketball.

They want us because we make the men's basketball league stronger.  They like that we have a top 100 rpi year in and year out.  If the AD's and presidents of the mvc see it that way.....we could get a call.

I think the MVC as it stands right now is a step above the Horizon League, but MVC is not what it use to be after losing Creighton. Still a good mid-major conference but took a big hit losing Creighton.

The Crown Jewel of the MVC is Wichita State now and is a dominant force in the MVC and are by far the best team. There have been rumors that Wichita State wants a bid to the new 'Big East' Conference for a few years now and would jump at the opportunity to get a bid (what mid-major wouldn't?). Now I don't think Wichita State is a great fit being in the new Big East because its a Public University and Big East is mostly made up of Private Universities, which is a big deal to that specific conference. There are rumors that Wichita St wants to create a Football program again which complicates getting a bid from the Big East even more. Also geography is working against Wichita State moving conferences. But if the Big East lost a school the the ACC or some other larger conference they may be forced to add a Wichita St to the conference. With the power struggle going on with conferences the last 5-10 years its seems inevitable that we will see more shifting and conglomerating of conferences and seeing bigger conferences poaching schools.

My whole point is that I'm not sure I'd want to join the MVC if Wichita State wasn't apart of it from a mens basketball perspective. At the very least there is a case to be made. I don't know all the financials specifics, but I'm assuming the Valpo Athletics Department would get a boost of revenue if they joined the MVC. I'd tend to lean on lets jump on the opportunity of joining the MVC but if it were to lose Wichita St that would be a huge blow and if we were getting a bid because they left I don't know if I'd chose the MVC over the Horizon.

In a perfect world I'd love for Valpo to get an invite from the Big East but thats probably only when pigs can fly or if Valpo decided to double its enrollment over the next 10 years and decide to splurge on new athletics facilities and have the Mens basketball program go on a Butler type run. Then the 2nd choice would be a bid from the A-10 which is not likely either, for many of the same reasons. Then next choice would be a MVC. Then staying in then staying in the Horizon League, but I'd like them to swipe Belmont. If the Horizon could land Belmont and retain all membership and hopefully see a resurgence from many schools like Detroit, Milwaukee then the HL would be in much better shape. But thats a lot of 'IFs" and a lot of wishful thinking.

[VU2014]

Interesting article on the Big East this morning in WSJ.  You may need a subscription.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-ditching-football-saved-big-east-basketball-1487616324

Yep. need a subscription.  Could someone copy/paste the text?

I have a subscription. One copy/paste won't hurt anyone for the sake of discussion.

How Ditching Football Saved Big East Basketball
The conference is gambling that its hoops successes will pay dividends outstripping the football revenues the schools left behind
By DOM COSENTINO
Updated Feb. 20, 2017 1:49 p.m. ET

In the big-is-better, football-is-king world of modern college athletics, a group of regional Catholic schools four years ago tried something radical: a conference focused primarily on basketball.

And it seems the experiment is actually working.

The new Big East currently has three schools—Villanova (No. 2), Butler (No. 22) and Creighton (No. 23) ranked in the AP Top 25. Four others—Xavier, Marquette, Seton Hall and Providence—also have a chance to join their rivals at next month's NCAA tournament, In 2015 and '16, the league placed at least five teams—or half its membership—in the NCAAs. And Villanova is the defending national champion.

Jay Bilas, a college basketball analyst for ESPN, said he would rank the Big East among the top leagues in the country, with the Atlantic Coast Conference still at No. 1. The Big East, he said, is comprised of "a great collection of basketball brands" with real rivalries and at least some geographic cohesion.

"The Big East is still a league, it's a conference," Bilas said. "The ACC and some of these other quote-unquote leagues are really just media-rights consortiums."

Maybe so, but those consortiums are also cash cows, powered by gargantuan football revenues. The Big East is gambling that its hoops successes will pay dividends outstripping the football revenues the schools left behind.

"Frankly, because we don't have football and all that brings in terms of distractions and the resources that go into it, we can focus on basketball," said Val Ackerman, the Big East commissioner.

The only question is whether this current run of success will last.

Founded in 1979 as a collection of basketball-centric schools in urban northeast media markets, the Big East grew into a hoops powerhouse in the 1980s while also providing a blueprint for the conference consolidation that later swept the country. But the continued expansion—the league eventually sponsored football and morphed into a hybrid arrangement of 16 schools, including seven that didn't play football at the Football Bowl Subdivision level—also brought the Big East to the brink of collapse.

"No disrespect to football, but it kind of ruined the original Big East," said Chris Mullin, the St. John's head coach and one of the league's earliest star players.

By the early 2010s, the tensions between the football and basketball schools became untenable. Bowl and television revenues for football kept growing exponentially, and several Big East programs departed in pursuit of more lucrative arrangements with other leagues. The Big East sought to fill the void by adding a handful of geographic misfits.


"We were taking in the best football schools that we could, but they weren't good basketball schools," said the Rev. Brian Shanley, the president of Providence College, one of the Big East's basketball-centric charter members. Some of the schools, Shanley added, concluded they were "degrading our basketball product, which was the thing we cared about the most."

The so-called Catholic 7 schools—Providence, Villanova, Marquette, Georgetown, DePaul, Seton Hall, St. John's—decided to go their own way and return to the initial ideal that underpinned the Big East's founding.

The remaining non-Catholic 7 schools went on to team up with several others in what is now the American Athletic Conference. Fr. Shanley described the Big East's split from the AAC as an "amicable divorce," complete with a division of assets.

The Catholic 7 insisted on two things: keeping the Big East name, which had long been associated more with basketball than football; and retaining the right to hold its annual conference tournament at Madison Square Garden, the venue that helped establish the league during its 1980s heyday.

In exchange, Fr. Shanley acknowledged, the Catholic 7 "left money behind." This included a substantial portion of entry and exit fees from the various members that kept joining and leaving, plus a windfall of bowl and television revenues generated by football, and even a share of basketball money generated by non-Catholic 7 schools.

The next step was to expand by adding three schools in urban markets with basketball pedigrees: Creighton, Butler, and Xavier. This brought the league to 10 members, which allows for an 18-game, home-and-home conference schedule. Ackerman said the conference has no plans to expand further.

"I have to say after being in the old league for a long time, it's nice to have a really shared sense of purpose among all the schools," Fr. Shanley said. "If you play football, it just dominates; every decision you make has a hold on football."

But consider that the Big East's television deal with Fox Sports—in which every in-conference men's game is aired on one of the Fox channels—averages around $42 million per season. In 2011, before the league disbanded, it was widely reported that the league turned down a nine-year contract with ESPN worth an estimated $133 million annually.

For now, the schools say they don't feel they are at a disadvantage. Even though the big football schools have fatter athletic budgets, said Creighton head coach Greg McDermott, those schools tend to spend most of their football revenue on football.

"We're all flying around in private jets recruiting," McDermott said.

The league also benefits from unusual coaching stability: Six of the league's 10 head coaches have been with their respective programs for at least six seasons. Villanova's championship last year, in the new Big East's third season, also went a long way toward giving the league renewed credibility, said ESPN's Bilas.

Success is often cyclical, of course. As recently as 2014, the Big East placed just four teams in the NCAA tournament, with none advancing past the Round of 32. The pendulum can always swing back. But the Big East schools have no regrets, at least for now.

[justducky]

They like that we have a top 100 rpi year in and year out.  If the AD's and presidents of the mvc see it that way.....we could get a call.

With Shane and Alec departing my best guess is for the 2017-18 team to start and probably finish outside of the top 100. Many of us thought that 13-14 would be a reloading year instead of one to rebuild, but our 195 RPI told a different story. Not saying or expecting that we could be that bad next year but we have recently witnessed that not every surprise will be a good one.

[VU2014]

With Shane and Alec departing my best guess is for the 2017-18 team to start and probably finish outside of the top 100. Many of us thought that 13-14 would be a reloading year instead of one to rebuild, but our 195 RPI told a different story. Not saying or expecting that we could be that bad next year but we have recently witnessed that not every surprise will be a good one.

Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.

We need to have a 2013-2014 recruiting class either this offseason or next season. I'm not saying we must land arguably the greatest player in Valpo Basketball history in another Alec, but we need to replenish. Joe Burton and Bakari Evelyn seem to be high level transfers that have potential to be impact guys but there is still unknowns and programs that have long-term sustainable success land those recruits from the time they are freshman.

I've read a couple times that "we shouldn't put too much pressure on the coaching staff to have a great recruiting class their first time around", but I could not disagree more. The level of expectation has been raised for the program. Raised expectations doesn't mean we must win the Horizon League every year but I do expect us to be in the hunt most years and good recruiting classes like this current Senior group are the foundation of the program for long-term success.

[a3uge]

The Big East didn't "drop football" - the Big East right now is a brand new conference. The article mentions the remaining teams formed the AAC, but that's not what technically happened. The old Big East conference sold the naming rights to the new conference and adopted the AAC name. The commissioner of the old Big East was still the commissioner of the AAC after the switch.

[vu72]

In a perfect world I'd love for Valpo to get an invite from the Big East but thats probably only when pigs can fly or if Valpo decided to double its enrollment over the next 10 years and decide to splurge on new athletics facilities and have the Mens basketball program go on a Butler type run. Then the 2nd choice would be a bid from the A-10 which is not likely either, for many of the same reasons. Then next choice would be a MVC. Then staying in then staying in the Horizon League, but I'd like them to swipe Belmont. If the Horizon could land Belmont and retain all membership and hopefully see a resurgence from many schools like Detroit, Milwaukee then the HL would be in much better shape. But thats a lot of 'IFs" and a lot of wishful thinking.

So to begin with, Valpo's facilities matchup very well with many in the  A-10. I have gone through the seating capacities etc several times before.  Here is the BIG difference. I'm watching the Rhode Island game on national tv right now. The commentators are saying the A-10 will get three bids.  Rhode Island will have, by the end of February 18 games on National TV. 18!!!!!!  What could that do for Valpo??

Here is their coverage:

ESPN 1
ESPN2 4
ESPNU 2
CBSSN 6
NBCSN 4
FSN 1

Valpo will have 7 games, 2 of which come via playing Kentucky and Oregon.  Please don't mention the coverage from The American Sports Network. 

[bigmosmithfan1]

Please don't mention the coverage from The American Sports Network

It's not ESPN, but those games on ASN get good pickup on local TV stations and regional cable sports networks around the country. Watched the VU-Detroit game on ASN back in early January on local cable while I was in Southern California on a business trip.

[bbtds]

Please don't mention the coverage from The American Sports Network

It's not ESPN, but those games on ASN get good pickup on local TV stations and regional cable sports networks around the country. Watched the VU-Detroit game on ASN back in early January on local cable while I was in Southern California on a business trip.

ASN is a step down from these other networks that Rhode Island is getting coverage on:

ESPN
ESPN2
ESPNU
CBSSN
NBCSN
FSN

which is much the same as the Horizon League being a step down from the A-10, MVC, etc. but ASN is better than not having a network or being solely on HLN (internet only). If the HL can improve it's competitive brand of basketball (bring it up to a level similar to the A-10 and MVC) then I'm sure the HL could change from the ASN and move up a level to CBSSN, NBCSN or a comparable network.

[bigmosmithfan1]

ESPN has been willing to sell off some of the MAC games they own the rights on to (but don't select for national broadcast) to CBSSN, and now there's a MAC game on that network almost every Friday night. Wonder if the HL could convince ESPN to do something similar.

[Dave_2010]

ESPN has been willing to sell off some of the MAC games they own the rights on to (but don't select for national broadcast) to CBSSN, and now there's a MAC game on that network almost every Friday night. Wonder if the HL could convince ESPN to do something similar.

Does ESPN still maintain the right to put those games on ESPN3 as well? Truth be told, I'd rather have games on a high quality web stream over a 3rd rate sports network with minimal distribution like CBSSN. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vu72]

ESPN has been willing to sell off some of the MAC games they own the rights on to (but don't select for national broadcast) to CBSSN, and now there's a MAC game on that network almost every Friday night. Wonder if the HL could convince ESPN to do something similar.

Does ESPN still maintain the right to put those games on ESPN3 as well? Truth be told, I'd rather have games on a high quality web stream over a 3rd rate sports network with minimal distribution like CBSSN. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't be too sure about the 3rd rate stuff.  I get it loud and clear here in DFW. There are MAC games on but also A-10, Ohio Valley and Valley games and even some Big East games.

[Dave_2010]

ESPN has been willing to sell off some of the MAC games they own the rights on to (but don't select for national broadcast) to CBSSN, and now there's a MAC game on that network almost every Friday night. Wonder if the HL could convince ESPN to do something similar.

Does ESPN still maintain the right to put those games on ESPN3 as well? Truth be told, I'd rather have games on a high quality web stream over a 3rd rate sports network with minimal distribution like CBSSN. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't be too sure about the 3rd rate stuff.  I get it loud and clear here in DFW. There are MAC games on but also A-10, Ohio Valley and Valley games and even some Big East games.

https://sportstvratings.com/nba-celebrity-game-rising-stars-challenge-chris-paul-celebrity-pba-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-friday-february-17-2017/7577/

It took me all of 5 minutes to find out that 172,000 people watched the Valpo game last Friday. The same site (and every other site I found, for that matter) doesn't even bother to report on the ratings for the programming on CBSSN. That says about all you need to know about CBSSN moving the needle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bigmosmithfan1]

Anyone with a digital tier cable or satellite package as well as any sports bar in the country gets CBSSN. It's better than a game streamed online by miles.

[elephtheria47]

Cbssn is the worst. They do not stream anything. Remember, tv subscriptions are on a decline and a lot of the younger generation (target audience) stream all of their tv. Yeah, sport bars are able to get it, but how many will turn on a valpo game? Especially on saturdays. But, i understand and agree with the frustration of espn3 as well.

Im not sure if the MVC is a step up from the Horizon anymore, especially if Witchita State leaves. Itll be interesting to see how Witchita State fares in the next few years and if they are able to retain their success. A-10 would be the best based strictly on MBB but as was mentioned that is unlikely. The best bet is to poach Belmont ASAP for the HL. I think the HL is finally trending upward after they were kind of lost after the Butler exit... there are a lot of great coaches back in the league.

[Big D]

The HL is not on the rise.  It has steadily dropped in the ranking the last few years.  Belmont isn't coming to the HL either.  They have ended their flirtation with the league by taking their men's soccer team out of the HL and will be joining another conference.

[IndyValpo]

The HL is not on the rise.  It has steadily dropped in the ranking the last few years.  Belmont isn't coming to the HL either.  They have ended their flirtation with the league by taking their men's soccer team out of the HL and will be joining another conference.

Here is the Belmont soccer move story...

http://www.nashvillepost.com/sports/area-colleges/blog/20848472/belmont-soccer-to-switch-conferences
This move makes perfect sense for them.

[oklahomamick]

I think the HL is finally trending upward after they were kind of lost after the Butler exit... there are a lot of great coaches back in the league.

What gives you that thought?  Have you seen the results?  Theres not another team in the top 100. 

[oklahomamick]

The HL is not on the rise.  It has steadily dropped in the ranking the last few years.  Belmont isn't coming to the HL either.  They have ended their flirtation with the league by taking their men's soccer team out of the HL and will be joining another conference.

Here is the Belmont soccer move story... http://www.nashvillepost.com/sports/area-colleges/blog/20848472/belmont-soccer-to-switch-conferences This move makes perfect sense for them.

I wonder if it's because they were getting their arrrse kicked? 

The southern conference in which they moved too, has much better travel.  Not to mention better weather. 

[bigmosmithfan1]

Im not sure if the MVC is a step up from the Horizon anymore, especially if Witchita State leaves.

No offense, but that's nuts. With or without WSU, the MVC is a better conference on a number of levels:

- Bigger and better fanbases, better crowds both at home and road
- Re-connecting with historic in-state rivals (ISU and Evansville), former AMCU/HL rivals (UNI, Mo State, Loyola), and re-establishing ties with strong regional names that VU used to play regularly in the 70s and 80s (Ill. State, SIU, Bradley)
- Higher revenues
- Better facilities across the conference
- Better TV contracts and media exposure, with its championship game televised on a Sunday afternoon on CBS.
- Multiple-bid conference more often than not (pre-dating Wichita's rise), in part because of the MVC's strong scheduling rules that don't allow teams to be RPI drags
- A conference tournament that makes money and is a showcase event for the league instead of a joke
- Better in other sports, particularly baseball
- Competent conference leadership

I mean, it's not close. The MVC is superior to the HL on so many levels. And one of the few advantages the HL had - the home-court reward for winning the regular season tourney - is now gone, as well.

[VU2014]

The HL is not on the rise.  It has steadily dropped in the ranking the last few years.

Conference's are cyclical. Just the nature of the sport and in this new age of college athletics Conference's are poaching each others teams so there is consolidation, which is another added element.

As for the Men's Basketball in the Horizon League, it is "on the way up". The bottom feeder teams finally fired their lousy coaches. Detroit and Milwaukee hire very good coaches that could restore respectability to those programs. Howard Moore was a great guy but a bad head basketball coach. UIC finally fired him and hired Steve McClain. I don't think McClain is a great coach for X's & O's and coaching but that guy can recruit like nobody in the Horizon League and he is sitting in the best recruiting hot bed in the midwest. He's not a good coach but he is accumulating so much talent they are just a doubtably going to be very good the next few years. Green Bay has a good coach in Linc.

Oakland is a good basketball program. Wright State has been surprisingly good. NKU is an up and coming team. Valpo is Valpo. The only teams that I'm iffy about are YSU and Cleveland State. Cleveland State has a had bad luck with transfers leaving the school.

I'm telling you the Horizon League men's basketball conference will be better the next 2-4 years. I'm not sure about other sports but Men's Basketball is king in the Horizon League and the financial catalyst for the conference. Look at the big picture and look beyond just the last few years and this season.

[elephtheria47]

Yes, i know the recent results and yes they have been bad. Historically, milwaukee, detroit, green bay, and wright state have all had success.[size=78%]Milwaukee made a great hire for a coach. Wright State made a great hire. Both teams hopefully make it back to their normal. Valpo and Oakland need to keep the wheels on which i think they can do. Green Bay should be solid for the forseeable future. UIC is getting talent. Like it or not, the league made a dicey decision to switch up the HLT format. Its too early to tell if it will pan out, and there are obviously challenges, but if it does work out then that will help develop "an MVC" type atmosphere.[/size]


I agree, the MVC has been better than HL as well, especially recently, but alot of that has to do with Creighton and Witchita State. Creighton obviously has moved on. I admitted, with Witchita State, that it will be a positive move. However, IF they move, who else is there? Indiana State Illinois State Southern Illinois and Evansville have all been blah...


I guess the point that was trying to make is, as we sit here now and look at the future, i feel the HL is trending upward, especially if everyone is able to keep their coaches. The MVC, imo, is trending down especially if Witchita State were to leave.

[VU2014]

No offense, but that's nuts. With or without WSU, the MVC is a better conference on a number of levels:

I fully acknowledge the MVC is a better conference even without Wichita State, but the conference would take a huge hit without them. The whole context was from a Men's Basketball perspective, not other sports.

MVC would make Valpo more $. If we got an invite I'd jump on it but the MVC is not the MVC from the Creighton days and if Wichita State left then that is another huge blow.

[valpotx]

Belmont is terrible in men's soccer.  I didn't think that they would ever join the HL as a full member, though we all wished for such a thing.

[FieldGoodie05]

The HL is not on the rise.  It has steadily dropped in the ranking the last few years.

Conference's are cyclical. Just the nature of the sport and in this new age of college athletics Conference's are poaching each others teams so there is consolidation, which is another added element.

As for the Men's Basketball in the Horizon League, it is "on the way up". The bottom feeder teams finally fired their lousy coaches. Detroit and Milwaukee hire very good coaches that could restore respectability to those programs. Howard Moore was a great guy but a bad head basketball coach. UIC finally fired him and hired Steve McClain. I don't think McClain is a great coach for X's & O's and coaching but that guy can recruit like nobody in the Horizon League and he is sitting in the best recruiting hot bed in the midwest. He's not a good coach but he is accumulating so much talent they are just a doubtably going to be very good the next few years. Green Bay has a good coach in Linc.

Oakland is a good basketball program. Wright State has been surprisingly good. NKU is an up and coming team. Valpo is Valpo. The only teams that I'm iffy about are YSU and Cleveland State. Cleveland State has a had bad luck with transfers leaving the school.

I'm telling you the Horizon League men's basketball conference will be better the next 2-4 years. I'm not sure about other sports but Men's Basketball is king in the Horizon League and the financial catalyst for the conference. Look at the big picture and look beyond just the last few years and this season.

Alike to the stock market, can't go chasinf

Belmont is terrible in men's soccer.  I didn't think that they would ever join the HL as a full member, though we all wished for such a thing.

If we keep chasing conferences we'll end up on their down swing every time.

[VU2014]

So apparently Belmont spurned the Horizon League in the recent past. Horizon reached out and Belmont rejected an invite and there is a rumor that they also rejected an Invite from the MVC...

Their President didn't think there was enough media exposure to make the move so when they made the move to the Ohio Valley Conference that conference pretty much sold its soul to Belmont. Belmont's plan is to run ship in the OVC and beat the living piss out a terrible Conference and make the Tourney pretty much every single year. They don't want to compete unless its probably in the A10 or Big East.

Blows my mind of their Presidents strategy...