Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VULB#62]

He does have a strategy.

[VU2014]

It's a strategy but its sort of a cowardly one. Play no one tough in conference and make the conference so many year in a row that the A10 and Big East give you notice and pray they give you a bid. I think they badly want to be in the Big East and to be honest who wouldn't.

I'd love to get in the Big East but that will never happen for us because we have a tiny enrollment and Valpo needs to step up their game in other sports other then Mens Basketball and we would need adequate facilities. But this all hypothetical and not going to happen.

Also give a the conversation that is happening on twitter a read. Really interesting discussion on the Horizon League between Valpo, Oakland and Milwaukee grads. Paul Oren just jumped in the conversation.

-Being discussed is how strengthen the conference

-Booting YSU out the conference

-Green Bay may or may not leave one day because of their financial situation

-Belmont, etc.

-NKU addition

(It all starts here. click of the twitter link and read through the convo)

https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/836235473131618304
https://twitter.com/YinzerSTILLinOH/status/836237761933893632
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/836238533132111872
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/836238785805500417
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/836239308352737280
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/836239955307429888

[valpotx]

Belmont won't be in the Big East anytime soon. 

[bigmosmithfan1]

It's a strategy but its sort of a cowardly one. Play no one tough in conference and make the conference so many year in a row that the A10 and Big East give you notice and pray they give you a bid. I think they badly want to be in the Big East and to be honest who wouldn't.

The Big East isn't interested in expansion and why would they be? Anyone they add would dilute their already somewhat-meager Fox Sports TV deal. They aren't having any difficulty getting at-large bids or deep tourney runs. And if that changes, the line will form behind Dayton, VCU and Wichita (and St. Louis, if they ever get their stuff together).

Also, it's easy to throw shade at Belmont for this approach, but I heard this same sentiment voiced by several past Valpo officials and coaches in the late 90s/early 2000s as to why VU didn't try to capitalize on the Sweet 16 run and seek a better conference option than the Mid-Con. (And yes, it sounded just as weak when VU people said it back then).

[valpotx]

Except that in our case, it wasn't as much getting to win the title every year, as much as keeping Steinbrecher's son gainfully employed as the Mid-Con commissioner, and keeping it together as a conference.

[bigmosmithfan1]

True on the second part, but I heard the "much easier path to the NCAA tournament" argument more than once from staffers and coaches back then. We can't get all high and mighty about Belmont's choice, is what I'm saying.

[FWalum]

Also, it's easy to throw shade at Belmont for this approach, but I heard this same sentiment voiced by several past Valpo officials and coaches in the late 90s/early 2000s as to why VU didn't try to capitalize on the Sweet 16 run and seek a better conference option than the Mid-Con. (And yes, it sounded just as weak when VU people said it back then).

Talked to President Harre about this many times, the reluctance to switch was always very evident.

[wh]

Expanding to 12 teams is the HL's bridge to nowhere. Consider that the 3 newest conference members have the  3 best W/L records, both in conference and out, yet the conference is mired in 18th in RPI. And why?  Look no further than the difference in program quality among the 7-member "old guard" since we've been in the league:

WSU - decline
GB - same
Milwaukee - significant decline
UIC - significant decline
Detroit - significant decline
CSU - significant decline
YSU - total leech, then and now

This isn't like a corporate turnaround situation, where you get the wrong people off the bus and the right ones on. We are who we are, and it's up to us to fix ourselves. There are no other answers.

[oklahomamick]

Expanding to 12 teams is the HL's bridge to nowhere. Consider that the 3 newest conference members have the  3 best W/L records, both in conference and out, yet the conference is mired in 18th in RPI. And why?  Look no further than the difference in program quality among the 7-member "old guard" since we've been in the league: WSU - decline GB - same Milwaukee - significant decline UIC - significant decline Detroit - significant decline CSU - significant decline YSU - total leech, then and now This isn't like a corporate turnaround situation, where you get the wrong people off the bus and the right ones on. We are who we are, and it's up to us to fix ourselves. There are no other answers.

Well said.  Along the same lines and I want to make my point again that this is not the same HL we signed up for. 

I don't want the summit either but if the best HL basketball programs left for the summit would it be a top 12?  I mean thats what the HL was when we joined. 

[VU2014]

YSU - total leech, then and now

Is there anyway to let loose on the dead weight that is YSU. They are miserable drag on the Horizon and have consistently shown little effort or desire to fix their situation. Leach is a pretty darn good word for them.

Could the President's vote to kick them out of the Conference?

I'm not sure what the ramifications would be but they truly are embarrassing to the conference (at least in my time of being a Valpo fan). YSU has shifted more resources towards football since Jim Tressel (former Ohio State Head Football coach) became the President of YSU and hiring Bo Pelini as the football coach. Basketball isn't their priority which does not match the Horizon Leagues goals.

[VU2014]

The Big East isn't interested in expansion and why would they be?

There are always eventually reasons to expand the conference. $$$$$ When their TV deal comes up and start renegotiating the TV contract they will realize how much $ is on the table if they were to expand to different regions of the country for market penetration. Yes they are making lots of $ now been the Pot can grow much larger as long as they find the right partners, (private school, medium to large enrollment (alumni base), Basketball focused (Non-Football School), and in a large market for the TV contracts, and consistently Competitive).

The Big East will eventually expand. (Not saying we will be in the conversation)

[VU2014]

Youngstown State University in a nutshell to the rest of the Horizon League...

https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/836432070150877184

[WSU85]

I don't know why you would say WSU is in decline.  They won 20 games last year and were in the finals of the tournament.  We have a great new coach who won 20 games this year with a new system no depth and no true point guard. Once he starts getting his recruits in he will have more success.  i went to the N Kentucky, Green bay, and Valpo games and our attendance, already the best in the league, was up.  By all measures Wright State is going up not down.

[VU2014]

Yeah I don't think Wright State is in decline either. I've been impressed by Nagy in his short time in the conference. Billy Donlon was a great coach but struggled in the recruiting department. Wright State isn't dragging down the league like YSU and Cleveland State are.

[vu72]

Remember that Cleveland State, for what ever reason, lost several great players to the likes of Kentucky, Lousiville and Wichita State.  Had they stayed CSU would have competed for the title.  Waters is a good coach and has had success recruiting.  Milwaukee self imploded via the firing of Jeter.  GB made a great hire.  I'm hopeful the conference is on the rise (from ashes). The question now is, can Valpo stay on top??

[VU2014]

Cleveland State would be good if they didn't lose some key players to transfer. Not sure if Gary Waters is going to be able to fix the program. Once you start losing and you get that reputation to recruits its hard to turn it around as a program. Hopefully they can get things back to competitive state.

I'm glad Milwaukee finally fired Rob Jeter. The offensive system there (and at UIC with Howard Moore) were running a very poor mans Wisconsin offensive scheme but they never recruited the right players to run it. Both good guys but just was time to go. Milwaukee apparently has very serious issues in there Athletics Department. Lots of drama and infighting. I like the LaVall Jordan hire.

Detroit made a good hire in Bacari Alexander. He's cleaning up the program and will start recruiting players who actually have a focus on basketball.

Nagy is a good hire for Wright State. Brannen will probably win coach of the year with NKU. Kampe has done a nice job. Linc is a good coach. And of course Lottich has a done a great job this year with the hand he has been dealt with the NCAA screwing us with Carter and Jubril, and short bench.

I think the Horizon League is pretty strong in the coaching department. YSU's AD needs to start actually caring about the Basketball program and put less focus on football for the Horizon Leagues sake.

[oklahomamick]

I hope Lottich is not a Donovan.  Very good coach but bad recruiter. 

So far he looks like a good coach.  Verdict yet to be decided on the recruiting part.

[bigmosmithfan1]

Expanding to 12 teams is the HL's bridge to nowhere

Agree. Now, subtraction, on the other hand... (or heck, even a swap would be an improvement. Replace YSU with Belmont and the HL looks a lot better almost instantly).

On a semi-related note, am I the only one who thinks the HL was way too passive and reactive in the immediate aftermath of Butler's Final Four runs? There was a legit window to shore up the conference with some quality members and leverage the juice the league had at the time, and nothing. (St. Louis under Majerus was expressing extreme dissatisfaction with the A-10 at the time and wanted to be part of a more Midwest-based league. Evansville was grumbling about the MVC. A forward-thinking league would also have considered making a pitch for Dayton and Xavier, then. Yes, longshots both, but also the western-most members of an Eastern-centered league that might have been able to be convinced to be part of a conference that just went to two straight national title games. Could none of this have worked? Of course, in fact, likely. But man, I would have at least loved for the HL to have tried.)

[VU2014]

Agree. Now, subtraction, on the other hand... (or heck, even a swap would be an improvement. Replace YSU with Belmont and the HL looks a lot better almost instantly).

On a semi-related note, am I the only one who thinks the HL was way too passive and reactive in the immediate aftermath of Butler's Final Four runs? There was a legit window to shore up the conference with some quality members and leverage the juice the league had at the time, and nothing. (St. Louis under Majerus was expressing extreme dissatisfaction with the A-10 at the time and wanted to be part of a more Midwest-based league. Evansville was grumbling about the MVC. A forward-thinking league would also have considered making a pitch for Dayton and Xavier, then. Yes, longshots both, but also the western-most members of an Eastern-centered league that might have been able to be convinced to be part of a conference that just went to two straight national title games. Could none of this have worked? Of course, in fact, likely. But man, I would have at least loved for the HL to have tried.)

I hear what your saying about the retraction. I wish the HL would cut off YSU. Their priority is football and not Basketball. Not sure how retraction would affect the bottom line ($) of the league.

As for SLU, Evansville, Dayton, and (especially) Xavier would have never have even considered the HL even after the Butler run. They make more $$ in the other conferences and every team saw the writing on the wall after the Butler run. Butler badly wanted into a better conference and out of the HL. I'd love it if they came to the HL but never is/was going to happen.

[bigmosmithfan1]

As for SLU, Evansville, Dayton, and (especially) Xavier would have never have even considered the HL even after the Butler run. They make more $$ in the other conferences and every team saw the writing on the wall after the Butler run. Butler badly wanted into a better conference and out of the HL. I'd love it if they came to the HL but never is/was going to happen.

Again, not saying it would have happened, but given the uncertainty due to expected upheaval in conference alignments at the time - remember, there were all sorts of scenarios in play - it would not have been unthinkable. You know that HL's revenues would not have stayed static with those additions, right?

Please note that I said X and UD were longshots. But SLU's head basketball coach was publicly lobbying to join a Midwest-based league and get out of the A-10. And UE was having issues with the MVC at the time. Again, the key phrase is "at the time." The HL had just experienced back-to-back Final Fours, was two years removed from multi-bid status (2009, where CSU won a first-round game), and Milwaukee was just a handful of years removed from a Sweet 16 run of their own, with Valpo on the upswing and UD featuring a highly-recruited star. What non-P6 league's future looked brighter at the time?

[vu72]

I hope Lottich is not a Donovan.  Very good coach but bad recruiter. 

So far he looks like a good coach.  Verdict yet to be decided on the recruiting part.

[/b]

Joe Burton, ranked No. 59 in the ESPN top 100, is the highest rated player to ever grace the Valpo campus. Add to that Bakari Evelyn was an All-state player in Michigan as a sophomore.  I think the "yet to be decided" comment is accurate, but, there is plenty to excited for going forward.

[FieldGoodie05]

I hope Lottich is not a Donovan.  Very good coach but bad recruiter. 

So far he looks like a good coach.  Verdict yet to be decided on the recruiting part.

[/b]

Joe Burton, ranked No. 59 in the ESPN top 100, is the highest rated player to ever grace the Valpo campus. Add to that Bakari Evelyn was an All-state player in Michigan as a sophomore.  I think the "yet to be decided" comment is accurate, but, there is plenty to excited for going forward.

I am also excited, but will reserve my view of his recruiting for a 4 year period where each class is his. 

Just like JIM Harbaugh at UofM winning out of the gate.  That entire team was the previous coaches group.  Doesn't entirely take away from Lottich's success, but he only has (2) active players in this years team.  TBD.

[EddieCabot]

I hope Lottich is not a Donovan.  Very good coach but bad recruiter. 

So far he looks like a good coach.  Verdict yet to be decided on the recruiting part.

[/b]

Joe Burton, ranked No. 59 in the ESPN top 100, is the highest rated player to ever grace the Valpo campus. Add to that Bakari Evelyn was an All-state player in Michigan as a sophomore.  I think the "yet to be decided" comment is accurate, but, there is plenty to excited for going forward.

As vu72 points out, the transfers are more highly ranked than the seniors Valpo is losing.  With continued development from this year's freshmen, Valpo will be the favorite again next year.

[M]

Oakland will be the favorite next year, I'm good with hoping that Valpo can be a surprise team next year (like the year Brandon Wood left).

[NativeCheesehead]

And if Malik Monk decides to commit some domestic violence, Oakland is even more of a favorite.