Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VU2014]

Valpo will be the favorite again next year.

Its early but as it stands right now Oakland will be the heavy favorite next season. Most of Oaklands best players will be seniors and they replace Dorsey-Walker with Kendrick Nunn (the former Illinois player who got off the team for domestic assault) who is then Dorsey-Walker. I've heard some HL fans call him a future NBA player. I watch a lot of Illini basketball and he wasn't an NBA player at Illinois, maybe he developed a new future to his game.

Bottom line we will not be the favorites losing our 2 best players (one of which has a legit chance to be a 1st rnd pick) and Shane can play at the top levels of Europe.

I like the ceiling and potential of Joe Burton and Bakari Evelyn but ranking of high school players means nothing. AP wasn't even ranked a 2 star prospect by 2 of the 3 major basketball. Rankings and stars are nice and do help us fans get excited and gauge players potential but its not the end all be all. I get what you mean though.

I'm cautiously optimistic about Joe and Bakari but I'm not sure they'll be to instantly replace AP and Shane's play right away. We still need to bring in more studs recruits. That swinging and missing on Sasha Stefanovic hurts.

[VU2014]

I'm good with hoping that Valpo can be a surprise team next year (like the year Brandon Wood left).

I'm hoping we can be a surprise team too. Just not sure we will have a Ryan Broekhoff and Kevin Van Wijk on next years team to step up. Joe and Bakari maybe can be those guys. Hoping Sorolla and Smits take another step. Maybe Tevonn takes that next step. Expecting Micah to grow as a player.

We'll see what happens.

[elephtheria47]

We will be fine next year...itll just look different having a team by committee fill the void of a star player or two.

Give the two bigs an offseason to improve and theres not a doubt in my mind they will. Also, the motivator this offseason is knowing all of the minutes and all of the shots/points that need to be replaced. One, or a few, will improve more than we expect.

[oklahomamick]

With that said we need to try and take advantage of our 5 out of 6 HL league championships and a nit runner up. 

Those results should generate good recruits.  Those results should give some weight when our AD calls the mvc. 

If MLB doesn't call mvc he's just not trying to improve our athletic department. 

[FWalum]

And if Malik Monk decides to commit some domestic violence, Oakland is even more of a favorite.

You don't have to spew out everything that pops into your head.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/842752440399265792
https://twitter.com/SIPeteThamel/status/842748798535438337

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/03/16/wichita-state-conference-realignment-american-athletic?xid=socialflow_twitter_si

Disrespected again by selection committee, Wichita State seems destined for bigger league

By: PETE THAMEL
Friday March 17th, 2017

INDIANAPOLIS — Wichita State arrives here for the first round of the NCAA tournament with a unique sense of both empathy and dread from its opponents. No one wants to play the Shockers, who are 30–4, rated No. 8 in kenpom.com rankings and reached the Final Four as recently as 2013. No one can believe the Shockers are a No. 10 seed, one of the most controversial and indefensible NCAA tournament seeds of this generation.

Wichita State's duality as a dominant national program from outside of a power conference is becoming an increasing anomaly. The Shockers may play in the Missouri Valley Conference, but they have a national brand, a consistently packed arena and they pay coach Gregg Marshall well over $3 million per year. Essentially, everything about them aside from their league schedule and the respect from the NCAA selection committee is high-major.

Two years in a row, the NCAA tournament selection committee has stunned college basketball observers with its treatment of the Shockers. In 2016, Wichita garnered a No. 11 seed despite going 24–9, which led to playing a First Four game in Dayton. (After blowing out No. 11 Vanderbilt and No. 6 Arizona, the Shockers eventually ran out of gas against No. 3 Miami.) This year, Wichita is seeded so low that it's not a guarantee the Shockers would have made the tournament if they had lost to Illinois State in the MVC title game. (Illinois State got left out at 27–6). "The notion that Wichita State could have been left out of this year's tournament is insane," says Valley commissioner Doug Elgin. "It's as strong a team as I've seen in 30 years in our league."

It's becoming increasingly apparent that a confluence of Wichita's recent success, the history of programs with similar profiles and the current trends of the NCAA tournament selection committee will drive the Shockers to a higher-profile conference. Conversations with sources around college sports this week revealed Wichita upgrading its league—likely to the American Athletic Conference—as a distinct possibility in the near future. This could happen in as soon as the next few months or may take a year or two. But the odds are increasing that the Shockers will end up somewhere else, with the AAC offering the highest profile and making the most sense. "It wouldn't be a genuine response if I said we weren't concerned," Elgin said. "We want them to stay. Losing Creighton was a blow to the league. Losing Wichita State would be the same."

A source said the American Athletic Conference is exploring ways to improve its basketball reputation. The league has 12 members for football but just 11 basketball schools, which means adding one non-football school would be logical. (Navy is the league's football-only member.) Commissioner Mike Aresco's public comments that the league didn't want multiple basketball schools fueled speculation that it may be considering a single one. "We are not under any circumstances going back to the old Big East model of multiple basketball schools," Aresco told Sirius XM satellite radio. The league is wary of adding multiple members for basketball after seeing how juggling football ambition and basketball tradition became untenable in the Big East. Ultimately, those tensions played a huge factor in driving the league apart.

Wichita has also pondered Conference USA, and the Mountain West and MAC to a lesser extent, as options if it decides to add football. (While the Big East makes sense for basketball, league officials there have been adamant about not expanding. There would also be little interest on the television side because of the value of the Big East's contract with Fox.)

The recent history of conference realignment shows that it typically occurs when the league is on the cusp of a television contract. Essentially every recent major move has come either before a contract (Pac-12), to sweeten a conference network (SEC) or to re-open negotiations on a current one (ACC). The simple conference math is that more schools bring in more money.

The American's current television deal, signed after the league got gutted by an exodus, pays teams in the league just $1.9 million in media rights per school. That's at most one-tenth of what the ACC, Pac-12, Big Ten, SEC and Big 12 get in annual television revenue. The AAC's contract mercifully ends in 2020, which means preliminary talks for the new deal begin sometime year. History dictates that if the league wants to grow, it'll move sooner than later.

Potentially adding Wichita may be one step in the evolution of the AAC. There are few logical options for football expansion, which is a completely independent conversation. The most logical football targets would be adding a pair of military academies, Army and Air Force, for football only to go with Navy. There's no indication if independent Army or the Mountain West's Air Force would be interested, but they are the most logical football expansion options to be discussed.

Basketball is rarely a huge driver of realignment. But in Wichita's case, the marriage appears to be mutually beneficial. The AAC had just two teams reach the NCAA tournament this year. Wichita barely made the NCAAs twice in a row despite dazzling seasons and could use the schedule upgrade from a stronger conference. The two teams from the AAC this year aren't a cause for alarm—UConn won the NCAA title in 2014 and the league got four bids last year. More so than television revenue, Wichita would add the potential of lucrative NCAA units annually. (Each appearance and win is essentially worth $1.6 million over six years, and the units passed on from the old Big East to the AAC are beginning to cycle out).

Marshall has not filtered his criticisms and concerns about Wichita's seeding. An NCAA source said this week that it's impossible to gauge if Wichita would have been in if they lost because they had already clinched the Valley's automatic bid by the time the committee convened. The source did add that Middle Tennessee likely would have gotten in if it had lost in the Conference USA final.

Marshall certainly is not naïve to the upward mobility of teams in the past decade who've rode consistent basketball success to higher leagues. The moves include VCU (CAA to Atlantic 10), George Mason (CAA to Atlantic 10), Butler (Horizon to Atlantic 10 to Big East), Xavier (Atlantic 10 to Big East), Creighton (Missouri Valley to Big East) and Davidson (Southern Conference to Atlantic 10). Wichita has built a superior or similar reputation in the Valley as all those schools did in their previous leagues.

When asked if he expected Wichita to follow their lead, Marshall didn't dismiss the notion. "That's beyond my decision-making level," he said. "That's a presidential deal as far as conference affiliation. I just think there's a little bit of a movement, it seems, by the committee to squeeze out the non-Power Five. I really feel that."

He's not the only one, as the trend of large conference mediocrity flooding the tournament is real. Whether that manifests in the Shockers moving on appears to only be a matter of time. Elgin points to the Gonzaga model and the success the Bulldogs have had in the WCC, but they appear to be the anomaly. "The gap is going to get bigger than smaller," VCU athletic director Ed McLaughlin said. "You have to be on the right side of the divide when the big divide comes."

All signs point to Wichita moving up, for fear of being left out.

[valpopal]

I think the MVC is a better fit for Valparaiso on a few levels, and the status of the conference is higher. The MVC was just outside the top 10 (the 12th ranked conference in RPI, 11th in some rankings) this year and the HL was a mediocre 18th. Some will argue that the MVC would be lessened by Wichita State leaving. However, you substitute Valpo and the MVC doesn't get hurt as much. The HL will still be lower than the MVC, especially if it loses Valpo.


On the other hand, this thread was begun almost exactly 4 years ago. Has the Valpo administration done anything in that time to make the program more appealing to the MVC (or any other conference) or has that time been wasted?

[bbtds]

On the other hand, this thread was begun almost exactly 4 years ago. Has the Valpo administration done anything in that time to make the program more appealing to the MVC (or any other conference) or has that time been wasted?

Not at all. It has been proven that fundamentally athletics ranks fairly low on the totem pole of valuable departments. I feel this school is very lucky that quality people such as the Drew's, LaBarbera, etc. we're here or remain. I don't think the school, as a whole, deserves the MVC until something changes.

[vu72]

On the other hand, this thread was begun almost exactly 4 years ago. Has the Valpo administration done anything in that time to make the program more appealing to the MVC (or any other conference) or has that time been wasted?

Not at all. It has been proven that fundamentally athletics ranks fairly low on the totem pole of valuable departments. I feel this school is very lucky that quality people such as the Drew's, LaBarbera, etc. we're here or remain. I don't think the school, as a whole, deserves the MVC until something changes.

[/b]

Couldn't agree more!  We need to follow Bradley's example!  Only spent $3.9 million on the basketball budget and finished near the bottom. They should have spent more if they really cared!  Ask Illinois State!  They spent less then Valpo on their budget and finished second!  Oh wait...never mind.

[SanityLost17]

Ummm...  Illinois State didn't get in, remember?

Doesn't matter what conference we are in, it is win the conference tournament or nothing.

The Era of mid majors getting at large bids is over.  Based on Middle Tennessee  getting a 12, they wouldn't have made it this year after an extra loss in their conference tourney. Doesn't matter which conference we are in.  Mid majors can't get in with 5 loses anymore. 

So who cares, might as well stay where we are. 

[VU2014]

Some seemstired of this discussion but every thread ends with facilities. I'm just going to leave this here...

https://twitter.com/joeyteeple/status/842828976150253568
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/842829264923901952
https://twitter.com/bruner_marc/status/842866079315755008
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/842867511217606656
https://twitter.com/bruner_marc/status/842868358974521344
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/842844235703422976

[FieldGoodie05]

Ummm...  Illinois State didn't get in, remember?

Doesn't matter what conference we are in, it is win the conference tournament or nothing.

The Era of mid majors getting at large bids is over.  Based on Middle Tennessee  getting a 12, they wouldn't have made it this year after an extra loss in their conference tourney. Doesn't matter which conference we are in.  Mid majors can't get in with 5 loses anymore. 

So who cares, might as well stay where we are.

100% AGREE

Not trying to create enemies here, but Oakland is up there in quality options with VU (for other conferences).  We are by no means a lock for most attractive in the HL.

[justducky]

Ummm...  Illinois State didn't get in, remember?

Doesn't matter what conference we are in, it is win the conference tournament or nothing.

The Era of mid majors getting at large bids is over.  Based on Middle Tennessee  getting a 12, they wouldn't have made it this year after an extra loss in their conference tourney. Doesn't matter which conference we are in.  Mid majors can't get in with 5 loses anymore. 

So who cares, might as well stay where we are. 

Conference USA was just awful at #23 so I will agree that Middle Tennessee had no chance for an at large with another loss. None!  I look at the Illinois St exclusion as another criminal act.

Returning to topic if Wichita St announced tomorrow that they had bought their way out of 2017-18 MVC participation then I might bet the HL 17-18 conference ranking would likely exceed that of the remaining 9 MVC members. Ok, that is not a sure thing and it might be the exception instead of the rule but still; who might jump ship next? Northern Iowa? Illinois St?

The only sure way for Valpo to progress towards mid-major prominence is for the staff and administrators to work tirelessly towards that achievement. Next year may require that effort just to stay in the top 125 but that is our starting point for the future.

[a3uge]

Ummm...  Illinois State didn't get in, remember?

Doesn't matter what conference we are in, it is win the conference tournament or nothing.

The Era of mid majors getting at large bids is over.  Based on Middle Tennessee  getting a 12, they wouldn't have made it this year after an extra loss in their conference tourney. Doesn't matter which conference we are in.  Mid majors can't get in with 5 loses anymore. 

So who cares, might as well stay where we are.

Half of the selection committee is outside of the P5 conferences. With MTSU being favored by Vegas over a 5 seed, and Wichita State winning yet again, I feel there HAS to be some sort of correction coming. The idea that quantity of wins over top 50 teams is the only metric has to go away. There's been a huge backlash against the committee this year, so I think this will get corrected. Maybe I'm being naaive, but the tournament can't survive without Cinderella's, which there were none of this year. There's no way people tune in and skip work for Cincinnati to beat Kansas State.

[justducky]

Maybe I'm being naaive, but the tournament can't survive without Cinderella's,

When the Cinderella's are gone I stop watching. Many others do the same. From a financial standpoint you would think the selection committee would overweight top mid majors instead of exclude them.

[nkvu]

Kudos to NKU for a brave showing against Kentucky.  If they had hit a couple more of the open 3's it could have been down right interesting.

Got to say with its' great facilities and all but one player coming back next year along with  adding a 7 foot recruit NKU is setting itself up to be tough to deal with from now on. Valpo is going to have to step up it's game if it wants to challange for Horizon League championships let alone move up to the MVC. Our two bigs had better realize that they have a lot of work to do if we are to compete in the next two seasons. They better realize being tall isn't enough. They have to get stronger and develop skills otherwise players like Drew McDonald can make them look really silly.

[oklahomamick]

Agreed valpo will certainly need to step up to contend for the HL championship next year.  But it's body of work the last 6 years qualifies to be a top candidate for promotion into a better league and despite no NCAA tourney wins, valpo has a top 100 rpi each year.  It's not a one year resume that's gets a promotion.

Nku and Oakland will be top dogs next year.  Can they be top dogs over a 6 year span?

I certainly think they can.  Oaklands ad and coach will do whatever it takes to promote and increase the quality of the bball program.  Nkumhas facilities, coach and recruiting.

[VU2014]

Agreed.

The conference is going to be much tougher next season. Oakland will favorites with all those seniors and 1 yr of Nunn. NKU will improve. Don't forget about UIC. UIC has a lot of talent and they were young this yr and missed Dixson. Valpo should be a contenders for Top few seeds again. Green Bay will still be competitive in the conference. Detroit won't get worse. MKE I'm assuming won't be quite as bad as this year. Wright State will be an experience team with a lot of seniors and juniors. YSU/CSU... well... at least they finally made a coaching change (specifically YSU).

[bbtds]

YSU/CSU... well... at least they final made a coaching change (specifically YSU).

The phrase I used was "Slocum if you got 'em."

YSU no longer has their Slocs.

[VU2014]

We are on the brink of another conference consolidation and Conference Shifting with in the next year.

Rumor is that the Wichita State Athletic Department and Board is fully committed to maintaining basketball success and they know in order to achieve that then WSU will need to try its best to get out of the MVC and find a more favorable 2 bid situation.

Rumor is they are going to the AAC as a hoops only member and it's going to be announced at some point within the next few year.

Better hold onto you seat belts because there is going to be a dog fight for the opening in the MVC. Probably going to come from the Horizon or summit. People mention Dakota schools but if the MVC make that move then that's just market play and they are on the wrong path anyways.

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/3/19/14976706/wichita-state-gregg-marshall-postgame-comments-ncaa-tournament-missouri-valley-conference

[a3uge]

We are on the brink of another conference consolidation and Conference Shifting with in the next year.

Rumor is that the Wichita State Athletic Department and Board is fully committed to maintaining basketball success and they know in order to achieve that then WSU will need to try its best to get out of the MVC and find a more favorable 2 bid situation.

Rumor is they are going to the AAC as a hoops only member and it's going to be announced at some point within the next few year.

Better hold onto you seat belts because there is going to be a dog fight for the opening in the MVC. Probably going to come from the Horizon or summit. People mention Dakota schools but if the MVC make that move then that's just market play and they are on the wrong path anyways.

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/3/19/14976706/wichita-state-gregg-marshall-postgame-comments-ncaa-tournament-missouri-valley-conference

"Rumor is that the Wichita State Athletic Department and Board is fully committed to maintaining basketball success"

It should be noted that one of the Koch brothers is bank rolling much of that program. It's easy for the administration to look good when you have rich donors that like sports.

[VU2014]

I wish we had our own billionaire donors. 

Marshall is dropping all the hints...

https://twitter.com/ChrisSchutte3/status/843576361159741443

[VU2014]

Apparently Oakland was in talks with the A10 to be a member? What the heck? This is news to me. Did any of you guys know this? Why?

https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/843935739322630144
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/843942183896043521

[valpopal]

Even more interesting is the follow-up tweet:


[tweet]843946357928869889[/tweet]

Apparently Oakland was in talks with the A10 to be a member? What the heck? This is news to me. Did any of you guys know this? Why?

[tweet]843935739322630144[/tweet]
[tweet]843942183896043521[/tweet]

[a3uge]

Even more interesting is the follow-up tweet:


[tweet]843946357928869889[/tweet]

Apparently Oakland was in talks with the A10 to be a member? What the heck? This is news to me. Did any of you guys know this? Why?

[tweet]843935739322630144[/tweet]
[tweet]843942183896043521[/tweet]

Sports journalism remains the worst.