Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[vu72]

Just because all the teams had the same amount of time to practice doesn't mean it's enough time. Is 30 minutes of practice worth spending x amount of dollars? How much practice would they have needed in order to pay the extra dollars to get there a day early may have been worth asking.

Here is what I think happened:  With both the women and men in the same space we were limited to 30 minutes on the court.  Matt chose to spend more time practicing together at U of D.  It isn't that we didn't want to spend the money, it is rather that we had a choice, a bad one which shouldn't have been available to the co-champions.  Stop blaming Valpo for not wanting to spent the money.  Total BS.

[StlVUFan]

Just because all the teams had the same amount of time to practice doesn't mean it's enough time. Is 30 minutes of practice worth spending x amount of dollars? How much practice would they have needed in order to pay the extra dollars to get there a day early may have been worth asking.

Here is what I think happened:  With both the women and men in the same space we were limited to 30 minutes on the court.  Matt chose to spend more time practicing together at U of D.  It isn't that we didn't want to spend the money, it is rather that we had a choice, a bad one which shouldn't have been available to the co-champions.  Stop blaming Valpo for not wanting to spent the money.  Total BS.

Then don't bitch about it in the postgame show or the press conference.

Everybody else made it work for them.  Our team is the only one complaining about it.

Obviously they didn't complain vociferously and I think ML is sincere when he says that's not the reason we lost (though it is kind of hard to sell that when NKU also declined).  But a little bit of that complaining did leak out after the game, and it still annoys me.  By the way, I'm not at all sure that extra expense was the responsibility of the individual schools.  Somewhere I think I heard that the conference would pay for the extra day.

I dunno, I still don't get the Valpo story on this, it doesn't make sense to me.

[IndyValpo]

Dreaming that maybe someday as has been suggested by others a Midwest based private school conference is formed and Valpo is included.

Bless you.  You'll get my vote as commissioner.

Four private schools in the Valley might be interested.  Four schools in the Summit with scholarship football want to be in the Valley.  Hmmm...

This is my hope. Start with Drake, Bradley, Evansville, Loyola, Detroit and Valpo. Then look at Belmont, Lipscomb, Oral Roberts, Robert Morris...any other private I missed. Is this better than the HL or MVC ? Probably not but this is where I wish we were.

It starts when Wichita bolts. Missouri State, Illinois State and Northern Iowa maybe look elsewhere.

We need to be active and alert to what is going on.

[valpopal]

When Loyola was admitted to the Missouri Valley Conference, the league's officials announced they were seriously considering expanding to 12 teams in the future. As I have mentioned before, I think the way to compensate for losing Wichita State would be for the MVC to add three schools that would assist the stature of the conference. My ideal three would be Valparaiso, Belmont, and St. Louis. I have no doubt Valpo would accept. Although Belmont reportedly decided not to join the MVC in the past, I think they could be convinced. If St. Louis can not be persuaded, there are other possible third teams, perhaps Murray State as a traveling partner for Belmont (Valpo and Loyola would be perfect travel partners). All three are in the MVC footprint. In any case, competition for first place in two six-team divisions would add excitement, and the three would help ease the loss of Wichita State, which no single addition would be able to do. Having said all that: if the MVC adds only one team, I see Belmont and St. Louis as the only valid programs ahead of Valpo. On the other hand, if the MVC did add three teams and Valpo were not invited, that would be a significant snub and re-evaluation of the Valpo program would need to be made.

[FieldGoodie05]

When Loyola was admitted to the Missouri Valley Conference, the league's officials announced they were seriously considering expanding to 12 teams in the future. As I have mentioned before, I think the way to compensate for losing Wichita State would be for the MVC to add three schools that would assist the stature of the conference. My ideal three would be Valparaiso, Belmont, and St. Louis. I have no doubt Valpo would accept. Although Belmont reportedly decided not to join the MVC in the past, I think they could be convinced. If St. Louis can not be persuaded, there are other possible third teams, perhaps Murray State as a traveling partner for Belmont (Valpo and Loyola would be perfect travel partners). All three are in the MVC footprint. In any case, competition for first place in two six-team divisions would add excitement, and the three would help ease the loss of Wichita State, which no single addition would be able to do. Having said all that: if the MVC adds only one team, I see Belmont and St. Louis as the only valid programs ahead of Valpo. On the other hand, if the MVC did add three teams and Valpo were not invited, that would be a significant snub and re-evaluation of the Valpo program would need to be made.

Making a Mid Major version of the ACC or B1G may not be all positive.  Right now the likes of St Louis, VU and Illinois State can all get automatic bids.

Put all three of us in the same conference and you exchange (3) for (1) automatic bid...and (1) at-large bid at best.  So in short, is (2) bids with a mega conference better than (3) bids without?

[vu72]

Just because all the teams had the same amount of time to practice doesn't mean it's enough time. Is 30 minutes of practice worth spending x amount of dollars? How much practice would they have needed in order to pay the extra dollars to get there a day early may have been worth asking.

Here is what I think happened:  With both the women and men in the same space we were limited to 30 minutes on the court.  Matt chose to spend more time practicing together at U of D.  It isn't that we didn't want to spend the money, it is rather that we had a choice, a bad one which shouldn't have been available to the co-champions.  Stop blaming Valpo for not wanting to spent the money.  Total BS.

Then don't bitch about it in the postgame show or the press conference.

Everybody else made it work for them.  Our team is the only one complaining about it.

Obviously they didn't complain vociferously and I think ML is sincere when he says that's not the reason we lost (though it is kind of hard to sell that when NKU also declined).  But a little bit of that complaining did leak out after the game, and it still annoys me.  By the way, I'm not at all sure that extra expense was the responsibility of the individual schools.  Somewhere I think I heard that the conference would pay for the extra day.

I dunno, I still don't get the Valpo story on this, it doesn't make sense to me.

[/b]

Here is the press conference.  Matt starts in on it at about the 30 second point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIWO3dxVnO8

[valpotx]

Valpo, Belmont, and Oral Roberts.  ORU has been down for a few years, but wow, that was a rivalry!!

[bigmosmithfan1]

That was a good rivalry way back when. However, ORU is now a nearly 300 RPI team, requires plane flights for teams to get there (canceling out any revenue benefits of a new conference), and would make any conference that adds them worse, not better. Oh, and by all accounts their administration was an absolute nightmare to deal with back in the old Mid-Con days. I'll pass, thanks.

[usc4valpo]

ORU seems to be a university on the downswing enrollment wise and financially. I doubt the MVC would pursue them, they would look at Valpo, Belmont and SLU first. UMKC would be a better selection

[VULB#62]

ORU seems to be a university on the downswing enrollment wise and financially. I doubt the MVC would pursue them, they would look at Valpo, Belmont and SLU first. UMKC would be a better selection

Definitely.  FYI - There are only 5 Div-I programs in the state of Missouri -- UMKC being one of them.  They presently belong to the WAC (they don't call it the WAC for no reason - its footprint covers the entire US west of the Mississippi River plus Chicago).  The WAC is comprised of:

   NMSU - Las Cruces, NM
   Chicago State - Chicago, IL
   UT Rio Grande Valley - Near Brownsville, TX
   Utah Valley - Oram Utah
   Grand Canyon University - Phoenix, AZ
   Cal State Bakersfield, Bakersfield CA
   Seattle University, Seattle, WA

UMKC 2016-17 record was:
   Overall - 18-17
   WAC - 8-6
   WAC Seed - #3 - lost to eventual champion NMSU in the semi's 60-78

Sports:  Standard offering (6 Men, 8 women) but no S&D and no Football
Home arena - Municipal Auditorium (Cap. 9,987)
Other Facilities - 850 seat soccer-specific stadium ($9million)

Notable 2016-2017 Results:
  Creighton (L)
  Drake (W)
  Bowling Green (w)
  Murray State (W)
  SE Missouri (W)
  South Dakota (W)
  SDSU (L)
  Kansas (L)
  WVU (l)
  UT-Martin (L)
  Mississippi State (l)

As of March 13, 2017
RPI = 184 (VU 71), SOS 145  (VU 187)

[FWalum]

plus he's critical of things like lack of practice time at the tournament

We had the same amount of practice time as everyone else, we just chose not to use it.  I found that response by him to be very unsatisfying.

Yes, everyone got the same 20 minutes of practice. What he is saying has nothing to do with that 20 minute practice time, it has to do with the court familiarity of a team haveing just played a game on that court versus a team that had a 20 minute shoot around 36 hours before. 

As I said on another thread, from a coaching standpoint a 20 minute shooting session 36 hours before a playoff game doesn't really cut it for me.  I doubt that it would have much if any positive effect on performance.  I agree with ML that the teams should get practice time (I am not talking the 20 minute variety here) on the court preferably the day of the game and that more needs to be done in order for the teams, that don't play in the opening round, to be comfortable on the court. Especially if you are trying to protect the higher seed.

[VULB#62]

FWalum, I collected your Forever Valpo post to support the post below:

Quote from: FWalum on Today at 09:20:10 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 01, 2017, 03:22:38 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 28, 2017, 08:41:08 AM
I thought the coach nixed the shoot around but not sure. Also, I don't know what you mean regarding the Jubril situation but from what I've heard the university spent quite a bit of money fighting for Jubril with the NCAA
Both Lottich and Gore complained about it in their postgame comments, so I'm guessing they weren't the ones who nixed it.  I'm more perplexed by the subtext I infer from ML's interview that seems to blame this on the HL.

My take on this comes more from a coaching standpoint.  A 20 minute shooting session 36 hours before a playoff game doesn't really cut it for me.  I doubt that it would have much if any positive effect on performance. I agree with ML that the teams should get practice time (I am not talking the 20 minute variety here) on the court preferably the day of the game and that more needs to be done in order for the teams, that don't play in the opening round, to be comfortable on the court.

Spot on. Before a practice or a game the players need to stretch and gradually get limber -- that takes 20 minutes alone - and only a small portion of that might be able to be done in the locker room.  To expect players to be loose and muscles warm at the start of the 20 minute "practice period" is ridiculous.  Even if they start shooting right away, cold, it will take the 20 minutes alone just to get into some sort of shooting rhythm and by then it's over.  Each player  can't even cover all of the shooting spots and angles (and at both ends of the court) in that time much less shoot 20-25 FTs against both backdrops.
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« Last Edit: Today at 09:42:01 AM by VULB#62 »

Part of the issue is that the HL in its wisdom pulled both MBB and WBB tournaments into the same facilities on the same weekend. That means 20 teams vying for playing floor practice time.  The MVC has separate, neutral venues.

[valpo64]

LeCrone isn't qualified to run the Summit Athletic Conference in Ft. Wayne made  up of high schools.  How many poor decisions made by LaC  will be tolerated until a change in leadership is made?

[valpo64]

I believe that Oral Roberts has been in BIG financial difficulty for the past few years.

[valpotx]

Heck no to UMKC.  Another commuter/directional school is not my preference.  In spite of the recent downgrade in performance, I would still like to see ORU.  Then again, I am a private school conference snob .

[VU2014]

LeCrone isn't qualified to run the Summit Athletic Conference in Ft. Wayne made  up of high schools.  How many poor decisions made by LaC  will be tolerated until a change in leadership is made?

LeCrone has made many questionable decisions:
-He completely kissed Butler's @$$ while they were in the HL (somewhat understandable but still...)

-Didn't capitalize off of the Butler success in the Horizon to attract other schools

-Lack of ability by the HL HQ to get Horizon League teams on Local/Regional Sports Networks is not acceptable.

-The Motor City Madness is sort of a flop. (It grew slightly last yr but is still looks questionable)

-He openly admitted that the MCM Tourney depends on Oakland/Detroit fans to pack the building and its pretty much a semi home game

-Oakland was a good addition to the HL, but it was an obvious one and anyone with a brain saw the natural fit

-I will give him credit for the NKU acquisition. An up and coming school/basketball team.

-BUT HL HQ let them in the League the year the League had a Team that had a chance to get an outright bid to the Tourney! Dragged down the RPI and strength of schedule AND very possibly cost the HL Unit $$ and great PR in the Tourney!

-I did like the rumored Tourney Format that they once proposed which would have been double elimination but NCAA shot it down.

I believe that Oral Roberts has been in BIG financial difficulty for the past few years.

Oral Roberts doesn't have the budget to consistently compete and the administration there is sort of losing its marbles.

Heck no to UMKC.  Another commuter/directional school is not my preference.  In spite of the recent downgrade in performance, I would still like to see ORU.  Then again, I am a private school conference snob .

I never really understood why people recommend UMKC. They don't have a recent track record of being competitive. I get that they are in the region but they are not a great Basketball program. Just always puzzling to me why they even come up in conversation.

[crusaderjoe]

I guess it's time to start making predictions.  If (or I guess "When") WSU leaves the MVC, and the Valley wants to move back to ten teams, team #10 will be UIC.  If the Valley wants to move to 12 teams this time around, the three schools offered will be UWM, UIC and VU to fill out the NE oval of the MVC geographically.  Belmont already declined interest the first time around apparently, and I just can't see Murray moving their football to the MVFC, so they will both stay put.  Anyway, that's my prediction.

[VU2014]

I guess it's time to start making predictions.  If (or I guess "When") WSU leaves the MVC, and the Valley wants to move back to ten teams, team #10 will be UIC.  If the Valley wants to move to 12 teams this time around, the three schools offered will be UWM, UIC and VU to fill out the NE oval of the MVC geographically.  Belmont already declined interest the first time around apparently, and I just can't see Murray moving their football to the MVFC, so they will both stay put.  Anyway, that's my prediction.

I do not think UIC will be the 10th team if they go 10. The MVC already got their "Chicago Market" Team.

The buzz is for SLU, Belmont and VU. First 2 are semi-unlikely (particularly SLU). Also Murray State comes up in rumors frequently.

When they lose WSU is likely to be next season. It's been pretty well reported that the WSU and the AAC want them in conference for the 2017-2018 season. Seems more likely it will be next season.

I actually think they go 12 teams if they can get the right 3. They know they won't be able to replace WSU so they try and add the best teams possible that also offer the best "fit".

-SLU
-Belmont
-Valpo
-Murray State

Wild-Cards
-North Dakota State
-South Dakota State
-South Dakota
Seems like they are happy in the Summit League. Only way the Dakotas were to join is if it was a package deal. You at least take 2 or all 3.

Next Tier
-SIUE
-Denver has been rumored also
-Omaha

[valpo64]

The "Dakota schools" have taken over the Summit League.  Talk about travel expense, I believe that IPFW made 3 separate trips out there during this past season.  Their conference tourney is also held out there.  Talk about a coup!

[bigmosmithfan1]

-BUT HL HQ let them in the League the year the League had a Team that had a chance to get an outright bid to the Tourney! Dragged down the RPI and strength of schedule AND very possibly cost the HL Unit $$ and great PR in the Tourney!

Yes, this is not talked about enough. NKU proved their mettle this year, but the HL allowing them in last season when they were still under reclassification was so dumb, and it hurt the HL. Wins against "reclassifying" teams are typically set aside by the committee (that used to be the rule - even if it's changed it's hard to believe they weren't thoroughly discounted in the committee's minds), so not only did VU take an unnecessary two-game RPI hit, they took that RPI hit and got no credit in their win total in the committee room! That is just horrendously poor planning on the HL's part and it likely cost the league a few million dollars worth of tourney unit payouts. So dumb.

[oklahomamick]

The "Dakota schools" have taken over the Summit League.  Talk about travel expense, I believe that IPFW made 3 separate trips out there during this past season.  Their conference tourney is also held out there.  Talk about a coup!

Coup....like how Mercy and especially Oakland pushed and promoted Motor City Madness. 

Not that the MVC would invite Oakland, but I would say the Grizz would turn it down with one of the biggest reasons being the conference tournament being held in Detroit. 

The Dakota's love their situation with the tourney being near. 

This is why I think SLU will listen to the mvc when they come calling. Arch Madness

[VU2014]

A Valpo student radio show is going to be interview Mark Adams who is an expert college basketball analyst on ESPN and the Lead National College Basketball Analyst on American Sports Network. He is really plugged into the Mid-Major Basketball.

They are going to talk about Wichita State leaving the MVC on WVUR at 7pm central time.

https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/848980282942337025
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/848986552856432641

[StlVUFan]

Part of the issue is that the HL in its wisdom pulled both MBB and WBB tournaments into the same facilities on the same weekend. That means 20 teams vying for playing floor practice time.  The MVC has separate, neutral venues.

It seemed to work fine when there were 16 teams in the old mid-con.  Maybe if we just excluded 9 and 10, it would be fine?

I don't know that I get this yet.

[StlVUFan]

plus he's critical of things like lack of practice time at the tournament

We had the same amount of practice time as everyone else, we just chose not to use it.  I found that response by him to be very unsatisfying.

Yes, everyone got the same 20 minutes of practice. What he is saying has nothing to do with that 20 minute practice time, it has to do with the court familiarity of a team haveing just played a game on that court versus a team that had a 20 minute shoot around 36 hours before. 

As I said on another thread, from a coaching standpoint a 20 minute shooting session 36 hours before a playoff game doesn't really cut it for me.  I doubt that it would have much if any positive effect on performance.  I agree with ML that the teams should get practice time (I am not talking the 20 minute variety here) on the court preferably the day of the game and that more needs to be done in order for the teams, that don't play in the opening round, to be comfortable on the court. Especially if you are trying to protect the higher seed.

I thought it was 30 minutes.  Now it's 20 minutes?

Other teams made it work for them.  If 30 minutes for the whole tournament is not enough time (did the semifinal teams not get time on JLA floor, say Sunday morning or Monday morning?), that's at least a rational reason, but I'm still kind of stuck on this.

Thanks for the perspective, it does help a little.

[Big D]

There isn't a chance in hell that SLU leaves the A-10 to go to a watered down MVC.  The A-10 is still a multi-bid conference that has schools that can make deep runs in the NCAAs.  Without WSU, the MVC is a one bid conference.  They turned down an invite to the MVC when Creighton left.  They aren't going to join now when the conference is weaker.  Belmont turned down the MVC last go around too.  They aren't leaving the OVC.  They like being the big dog in that conference.