Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VULB#62]

Paul put up a poll on his Twitter page 25 minutes ago and got 56 votes right away. 65%-35% split for the MVC.

[tweet]849667283077263360[/tweet]

[VU2014]

Found this on the Wichita State board:

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mvc-to-hold-emergency-meeting-on-sunday-in-saint-louis/

Interesting. When Creighton left 4 years ago the MVC should have suspected then that WSU would be next. But instead of finding a replacement with proven, sustained basketball success, their university presidents became mesmerized by "facilities" (which is their thing, after all) and the glitz and glitter of Chicago's skyline. Now they need to find a school with a strong bb program just to return to square-1. Then, they need to add 2 more schools with strong programs to help close the gap left by Creighton and Wichita State. Of course, this assumes that they've come to their senses, which one never knows when school administrators clearly out of their element function as an athletic association search committee.

In any event, the MVC's risk of falling into mid-major mediocrity should bode well for Valpo this time around.

WH, you imply an interesting "what if."  What if......... four years ago, the MVC took Valpo instead of Loyola? 

What would the Mid-major MBB landscape look like over those 4 years and now?  Maybe to wit, the MVC RPI and ranking increases across the board, the MVC is a shoe-in at large conference, yada, yada. 

Would that landscape have been enough to convince WSU to remain in the MVC? 

It doesn't do Valpo or the MVC any good now, but inquiring minds want to know  .

Wichita State would be leaving regardless if Valpo joined the MVC instead of Loyola. Wichita St wanted out before Creighton even left. It just enhanced once Creighton left.

Both the MVC and the HL are one-bid leagues. Both conferences have schools are just waiting to jump at the next best conference that considers them. The MVC has FCS football schools in UNI/IL St that would jump at the chance to get into an FBS football conference. Those are the 2 schools that are the "Top" basketball programs in the conference.

The ONLY obvious move for Valpo would be to the A10 but thats not going to happen. We really need a new Conference in the Midwest. There are too many bottom feeders and schools not carrying their own weight in the MVC, HL, Summit, and OVC.

[VULB#62]

Paul put up a poll on his Twitter page 25 minutes ago and got 56 votes right away. 65%-35% split for the MVC.

[tweet]849667283077263360[/tweet]

This link constantly refreshes so after just 35 minutes it is up to 77 votes and the split is 66-34 down from a 68-32 a couple of minutes ago.  But 77 votes in only 33 minutes shows a lot of interest.

UPDATE at 1 hour: 116 votes and a 69%/31% split

[valpo64]

The MVC as a better chance of getting multiple bids than the HL.  If there are many conference affiliation changes, I think the Summit League will be decimated.

[VU2014]

The MVC as a better chance of getting multiple bids than the HL.  If there are many conference affiliation changes, I think the Summit League will be decimated.

The MVC with the 9 that are in there right now is pretty securely a 1-bid league especially with the recent history of how the Selection Committee picks teams and completely screws Mid-Majors.

It would have to be a pretty good year for 2 bids. Illinois St couldn't even get a bid in a league with Wichita St in it and had an incredibly strong year and good team. I do think we are a better match with the schools in the MVC but its not the end all be all anymore.

[oklahomamick]

decimated

I think the current summit league has never been stronger.

[bigmosmithfan1]

With all due respect, a move to the MVC is a no-brainer if the opportunity presents itself. It's a better-run conference than the HL, with better leadership, with much better fan support, a better TV deal, better in-state rivalries, better tradition and is better positioned for long-term success and is far more likely to land multiple bids than the HL will ever be, namely because they incentivize teams not being RPI drags for years on end. This was one of the worst years in recent memory for the MVC and it's still ranked higher despite Drake being a sub-300 team. It's just a stronger league across the board, even without Wichita. Don't overthink this.

[VU2014]

With all due respect, a move to the MVC is a no-brainer if the opportunity presents itself. It's a better-run conference than the HL, with better leadership, with much better fan support, a better TV deal, better in-state rivalries, better tradition and is better positioned for long-term success and is far more likely to land multiple bids than the HL will ever be, namely because they incentivize teams not being RPI drags for years on end. This was one of the worst years in recent memory for the MVC and it's still ranked higher despite Drake being a sub-300 team. It's just a stronger league across the board, even without Wichita. Don't overthink this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for going to the MVC but I'm just saying if we make that leap then the MVC may look different 5-10 years from now.

A lot of factors in play. I do think it would be the right move.

[oklahomamick]

With all due respect, a move to the MVC is a no-brainer if the opportunity presents itself. It's a better-run conference than the HL, with better leadership, with much better fan support, a better TV deal, better in-state rivalries, better tradition and is better positioned for long-term success and is far more likely to land multiple bids than the HL will ever be, namely because they incentivize teams not being RPI drags for years on end. This was one of the worst years in recent memory for the MVC and it's still ranked higher despite Drake being a sub-300 team. It's just a stronger league across the board, even without Wichita. Don't overthink this.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for going to the MVC but I'm just saying if we make that leap then the Conf may look different 5-10 years from now. A lot of factors in play.

We made the jump to the HL.  After 7 years it was not the same.  Actually, just not even similar except for the name....

[crusaderjoe]

Again, from the WSU board:

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/04/05/wichita-state-american-athletic-conference-aac-vote?xid=socialflow_twitter_si

AAC to formally vote for WSU admission later this week.

[VULB#62]

Just for reference, here are the 11 AAC schools.  Navy is a football only member.  WSU would be the only non-football member (but there were rumblings that they might start their football program up again).

2016-17 Men's Basketball Standings
SCHOOL   CONF   OVERALL
SMU            17-1   30-5
Cincinnati   16-2       30-6
Houston    12-6   21-11
UCF            11-7   24-12
Memphis     9-9    19-13
UConn      9-9     16-17
Tulsa       8-10        15-17
Temple      7-11   16-16
East Carolina   6-12   15-18
Tulane      3-15    6-25
USF          1-17        7-23

[a3uge]

The MVC has bigger budgets, and contrary to the belief that the Valpo administration hates athletics, we'd be right in the middle in terms of  expenditures.

I'm not a big "we need to be in a league with more private schools" guy, but I don't think the large state colleges in the Horizon are going to pump more money into athletics. The private schools in the MVC already have good budgets - they just suck at hiring coaches.

The MVC has been a better league, and still has more promise due to the larger budgets.

[a3uge]

The MVC as a better chance of getting multiple bids than the HL.  If there are many conference affiliation changes, I think the Summit League will be decimated.

The MVC with the 9 that are in there right now is pretty securely a 1-bid league especially with the recent history of how the Selection Committee picks teams and completely screws Mid-Majors.

It would have to be a pretty good year for 2 bids. Illinois St couldn't even get a bid in a league with Wichita St in it and had an incredibly strong year and good team. I do think we are a better match with the schools in the MVC but its not the end all be all anymore.

They were at least in the conversation, despite having a poor non-conference resume. Valpo ran through the league in 2015, had way better wins out of conference, and were still out. Valpo was unable to get that eye-popping RPI necessary for a mid-major at-large.

The Horizon has been below .500 vs D1 teams for 4 straight years now. Sans-Valpo, what passes for "great" is an above 100 RPI team that has like 1 conf tournament win since joining the league.

[elephtheria47]

I think its more of a "what will the mvc become" than a "what about the horizon league."

I think the HL is a known commodity. It is what it is. The MVC is totally up in the air. High risk high reward. Should Valpo continue to try and be successful until a better option than the MVC comes along? I guess for me it boils down to what else the MVC does....does it add one member to replace WSU or three? If one, ill pass. If three, lets dance.

[valpo64]

The Summit League may be good right now, but IF and when the IPFW thing finalizes and they leave and downsize their affiliation, and IF other schools change conference affiliations, the Summit will be in a world of hurt.

[VU2014]

I think its more of a "what will the mvc become" than a "what about the horizon league."

I think the HL is a known commodity. It is what it is. The MVC is totally up in the air. High risk high reward. Should Valpo continue to try and be successful until a better option than the MVC comes along? I guess for me it boils down to what else the MVC does....does it add one member to replace WSU or three? If one, ill pass. If three, lets dance.

I'd say the MVC is actually a much safer conference then the Horizon League. Yes teams like IL St and UNI may jump ship one day but there doesn't seem to be a viable option for them right now to jump to. I don't see the A10 picking them up and I don't see an FBS football conference eager to grab them either at this point. Even then it would be a tricky leap for them.

I just feel like there will be less peaks and valleys with the MVC in terms of league competitiveness, compared to the Horizon. I the Horizon I feel like there are a lot of good coaches at schools and the schools that are mid pack (not exact good yet) are trending up, BUT if those schools were to lose those coaches it could really hurt the program.

I just see more school in the MVC being a match with Valpo and having consistent funding support. Also it would be nice to see old rivalries with Indiana St and E-Ville. I've never experienced those rivalries because I'm a little bit younger of an alumni but I can imagine having 2 in-state rivals would be good for us and them. Also the match-ups of teams in the MVC would be much more interesting draws to the ARC in general in conference play.

The MVC may be a solid 1-bid league after WSU but like others have said it has more of a chance to be 2 bid league in the good years for the conference especially if it adds a team like Valpo or goes 3 teams (& adds other strong BBall programs with some history/tradition).

The MVC may not be what it use to be but it still looks to be the best fit for us at this time. Although I still say a new Midwest MidMajor Conference should be formed and may actually happen when the TV deals come up.

[bbtds]

If Valpo switched, are Valley games put on ESPN3? That's what is most important to me 

4/07           7:00 PM EDT         Indiana State vs. Evansville (Baseball)      ESPN 3

Their baseball is on ESPN 3 for sure.

[usc4valpo]

What is so great about the Summit league? Seriously?

[valpotx]

The 3 Dakota schools are being joined by the University of North Dakota.  They have leapfrogged the HL in regards to conference RPI because of those schools, and it will continue with UND. 

The MVC is a no-brainer.  We get 4 other private schools, and if a Belmont or Detroit joins with us, we are set long-term for any other conference instability.  Being tied to other private schools can only help us, as long as they don't go to back-to-back NCAA championship games .

[a3uge]

The 3 Dakota schools are being joined by the University of North Dakota.  They have leapfrogged the HL in regards to conference RPI because of those schools, and it will continue with UND. 

The MVC is a no-brainer.  We get 4 other private schools, and if a Belmont or Detroit joins with us, we are set long-term for any other conference instability.  Being tied to other private schools can only help us, as long as they don't go to back-to-back NCAA championship games .

The Summit did not leapfrog the Horizon in RPI. The Horizon finished with a better RPI last year. The Summit doesn't have the budget to retain coaches, and hasn't had a team anywhere close to at-large level. South Dakota State, their most consistent team, lost their coach to a Horizon League school. They lost their best PROGRAM to the Horizon League.

[jsher3141]

In response to the TV question, (I was curious too) the MVC also has a deal with ESPN for ESPN3 broadcasts through 2025. And for Arch Madness semis and finals to be carried by CBS through 2021.

[valpotx]

The Summit finished at #17, while the HL was #19 this season.

[justducky]

I'm sure my opinion won't be a popular one on this board, but my thought is why would Valpo even want to make the jump to the MVC without Creighton or Wichita State there?

Yes. Why? We joined the HL to be in a multi bid league then it disappeared. Even if NIU and ISU stay (a bet I wouldn't take) this new MVC (with VU) might only be multi bid maybe 1 year out of 4 or 5 and perhaps even less.

So what are the alternatives? Well, there are no simple answers. With no simple answers let me reintroduce a concept that I've floated before that nobody seemed to know how to answer or address.

For simplicity lets imagine a 14 team combination of whatever teams from whatever conferences dedicated toward elevated strength of schedule (SOS) and elevating RPIs. Each summer (prior to scheduling) conference divisions are determined by all known team factors with the objective of selecting the 7 best teams for the top division and the 7 weakest for the also rans. Top division teams would play each other home and away (12 game) and play the others only once for 19 conference games. Same for lower division. So a decent 14 team league might always have 7 projected Top 110 RPI teams in its top division every year. That would be 12 conference games against quality opponents with a minimum of RPI dilution coming from the conference bottom feeders.

Why couldn't something like that be tried? I floated something similar to this (12 team) some time in the past and do not remember any answers which totally shot it down. Sure. Lots of details to fill in but assuming 2 or 3 near at-large quality teams each year what would be the results?

[wh]

This article is from a few days ago, but I don't think I recall seeing it posted yet.  It focuses on primary candidates to move to the MVC with a heavy Valpo mention.

Conference realignment: What should the MVC do if (when) Wichita State leaves?

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/3/29/15080936/conference-realignment-what-should-the-mvc-do-if-when-wichita-state-leaves-expansion-valley-shockers

[FieldGoodie05]

I'm sure my opinion won't be a popular one on this board, but my thought is why would Valpo even want to make the jump to the MVC without Creighton or Wichita State there?

Yes. Why? We joined the HL to be in a multi bid league then it disappeared. Even if NIU and ISU stay (a bet I wouldn't take) this new MVC (with VU) might only be multi bid maybe 1 year out of 4 or 5 and perhaps even less.

So what are the alternatives? Well, there are no simple answers. With no simple answers let me reintroduce a concept that I've floated before that nobody seemed to know how to answer or address.

For simplicity lets imagine a 14 team combination of whatever teams from whatever conferences dedicated toward elevated strength of schedule (SOS) and elevating RPIs. Each summer (prior to scheduling) conference divisions are determined by all known team factors with the objective of selecting the 7 best teams for the top division and the 7 weakest for the also rans. Top division teams would play each other home and away (12 game) and play the others only once for 19 conference games. Same for lower division. So a decent 14 team league might always have 7 projected Top 110 RPI teams in its top division every year. That would be 12 conference games against quality opponents with a minimum of RPI dilution coming from the conference bottom feeders.

Why couldn't something like that be tried? I floated something similar to this (12 team) some time in the past and do not remember any answers which totally shot it down. Sure. Lots of details to fill in but assuming 2 or 3 near at-large quality teams each year what would be the results?

It's a very interesting concept and I could see this "Premier League (soccer)" style system keeping the heat on programs to invest and not get relegated to the tier (2) position.

Guess I am just a realist...this NCAA March Madness environment today doesn't reward this type of free market genius.  It may generate a (2) bid league but (3) or (4) bids are very hard to imagine any school with smaller alumni bases achieving.

So I think it's a fun idea, and I know it has proven great for the English Premier League by keeping bottom dwellers invested. 

Short of a Mid Major only tournament I think we need to expect to win our conference every year for the bid.

The sad part is that for a majority of March Madness fans, the underdog against the blue blood is the real viewership draw.  The NCAA has us by the short hairs though because we need the P6 to draw the viewership for the DAVID v Goliath concept that so endears us.  A Mid Major only tournament puts little pressure on the NCAA committee to reform their money 💰 producing ways.