Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VU2014]

This is pretty Big. Apparently Belmont wants in badly. If the MVC only takes one then its game over folks. It's going to be Belmont if they want it. If they go 12 teams then I'd have to think Valpo would have to be in the Top 2-3.

https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850533080548990976
https://twitter.com/mensign75/status/850535029419769856
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850535610410520576
https://twitter.com/alwurtz103/status/850536829841494016
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850537689447321600
https://twitter.com/alwurtz103/status/850538563351588865
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/850392524405579776
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850542633952964608
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850542812890374144
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850543249068523520
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/850549170788290560

[a3uge]

12 teams in a 1-bid league is a bad idea. That's another 2 teams to split tournament revenue between. That's less chance of getting the auto bid.

[a3uge]

This is pretty Big. Apparently Belmont wants in badly. If the MVC only takes one then its game over folks. It's going to be Belmont if they want it. If they go 12 teams then I'd have to think Valpo would have to be in the Top 2-3.

https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850533080548990976
https://twitter.com/mensign75/status/850535029419769856
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850535610410520576
https://twitter.com/alwurtz103/status/850536829841494016
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850537689447321600
https://twitter.com/alwurtz103/status/850538563351588865
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/850392524405579776
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850542633952964608
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850542812890374144
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850543249068523520

I'd be weary of shoddy, unprofessional journalism like that.

[wh]

This is pretty Big. Apparently Belmont wants in badly. If the MVC only takes one then its game over folks. It's going to be Belmont if they want it. If they go 12 teams then I'd have to think Valpo would have to be in the Top 2-3.

https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850533080548990976
https://twitter.com/mensign75/status/850535029419769856
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850535610410520576
https://twitter.com/alwurtz103/status/850536829841494016
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850537689447321600
https://twitter.com/alwurtz103/status/850538563351588865
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/850392524405579776
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850542633952964608
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850542812890374144
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850543249068523520

I'd be weary of shoddy, unprofessional journalism like that.

The only person in the twitter chain saying that Belmont would be the MVC's first choice is Valpo Hoops. In all due respect Hoops isn't a source, he's a fan with an opinion like all the rest of us.

[a3uge]

This is pretty Big. Apparently Belmont wants in badly. If the MVC only takes one then its game over folks. It's going to be Belmont if they want it. If they go 12 teams then I'd have to think Valpo would have to be in the Top 2-3.

https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850533080548990976
https://twitter.com/mensign75/status/850535029419769856
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850535610410520576
https://twitter.com/alwurtz103/status/850536829841494016
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/850537689447321600
https://twitter.com/alwurtz103/status/850538563351588865
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/850392524405579776
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850542633952964608
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850542812890374144
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/850543249068523520

I'd be weary of shoddy, unprofessional journalism like that.

The only person in the twitter chain saying that Belmont would be the MVC's first choice is Valpo Hoops. In all due respect Hoops isn't a source, he's a fan with an opinion like all the rest of us.

I was referring to the Illinois State beat reporter saying Belmont wants in badly on a Twitter reply to a random fan.

[VU2014]

I'm just relaying what the reporter said... He is an ISU BBall team reporter for the The Pantagraph. I never said it was fact that if Belmont was coming to the MVC. It was pretty widely reported that Belmont was the MVC first choice over Loyola. I've asked quite a reporters (also "MidMajor Insiders") who they think would get the invite and most of them speculated Belmont if they wanted to actually leave the OVC. I do think Valpo makes sense even more now that Loyola is in the picture and we'd be a program that offers a very strong bball program but also a good travel partner to Loyola.

There is a lot of smoke/rumors flying around that is probably a lot garbage. Seems like the only thing that is consensus from reputable reporters/analysts out there is that it will either be 10 or 12 and 11 is unlikely.

Journalistic integrity has been thrown completely out the window these days. So who knows I guess.

[VU2014]

If anyone is looking for one national media/analyst to follow I'd recommend Mark Adams. Very reputable & trustworthy.

https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/850550583257956352
https://twitter.com/steveboleski/status/850552251601080321
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/850553466477064192

[SanityLost17]

As an ISU fan I have seen a lot of people who are supportive of you moving to the MVC.

Lots of ISU fans on twitter not happy with the suggestion of us coming in.  We have an MVC basketball level budget and over the last 20 years our RPI stacks up extremely well to those currently left in the MVC.  Other than Northern Iowa, I am not sure anybody in the MVC has a better national brand than Valpo.  Aside from building a new gym I am not sure what else we can do to show we are committed to basketball.

Valpo was screwed over by the NCAA in 2016.  Illinois State was screwed over by the NCAA in 2017.  Seems like our programs have a lot in common.   

[a3uge]

http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4679

These guys are awful. Valpo's been more consistent than anyone in the MVC sans UNI, but still, we're not good enough. One of their biggest knocks is that we developed a player too well.

[valpotx]

I just don't get the people that bring up UMKC.  They have been in that market for a long time, and never experienced much success in basketball.  You are telling me that just because they move conferences, they will start to have success and gain fans?  It is a commuter campus as well, and no one cares about the program in KC.  We saw this when we played against them, and when they hosted the conference tournament.  I can't imagine that their fan base has changed much since that time.  We outnumbered their fans in their own city!!

[wh]

http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4679

These guys are awful. Valpo's been more consistent than anyone in the MVC sans UNI, but still, we're not good enough. One of their biggest knocks is that we developed a player too well.

Starting to get turned off by this. We don't have anything to prove to ignorant fans of MVC programs that we're far superior to. I'm starting to agree that they need Belmont and their 2500 fans and no message board to bail them out and we'll stay right where we're at.

[FieldGoodie05]

Who is @Valpo_Hoops on twitter?  Is that you VU2014?

[M]

Yes it is

[NativeCheesehead]

So if we lobby to get in but don't, does the Horizon move the tourney to France?  Or just Lecrone ref our games? 

[Chairback]

From what I was told there were two reasons why we didn't get the invite the first time around:

1) Location
2) Wichita State was against us getting in and basically held court over the other teams.  They single handedly got us shot down.

MVC cannot afford to add a UMKC or another Loyola type team again.  It will kill the MVC.  It has to be a school dedicated to basketball with past history and name recognition.  Imagine if the MVC had let us in years ago how much better that would have been for the league.  Outside of 2 teams the MVC was weak last year.  Wichita State had no choice but to get out quickly.   Illinois State has not been ripping it up the last 20 years.

[wh]

I see that the ultimate wet dream for some of these posting geniuses is to add St. Louis. The St. Louis that Jim Crews turned into a dumpster fire in 4 short years before being fired. The same St. Louis with a combined 34-63 record over the last 3 seasons and a combined 14-40 record in the A-10. The same St. Louis now under the direction of Travis Ford to resurrect from the ashes, a lifetime .500 coach.

I can just see it now. SLU becomes another .500 team in the MVC. They also add Belmont just before Byrd retires and they become a .500 team. 3 years from now they knock on Valpo's door again, only to find it locked and a post-em note attached with a brief message - "GFY."

[valpo64]

Chairback are you saying that WSU was the "Butler of the HL"?

[UNIfan]

You guys shouldn't read too much into the MVC forum discussion. I think the nay-sayers have drowned out the rational people at this point. I think a majority of fans would be happy with this move, there are always gonna be the displeased coming to the forums to spew their arguments. I agree that it would be silly to say anyone but us has done better than you guys in the last few years.

That being said, your expectation to come in and rise to the top immediately may be a bit optimistic. Genuine question: Is your team gonna be improving next year or taking a step back?

You guys lost 4 Horizon league games last year and then against Mke in the tourney. It would be impossible to argue that 4 losses in your league wouldn't translate into a few more losses in Valley play. That still puts you around the top 3 because of how below average accross the board the Valley was last year. This year, Bradley, Loyola, Missouri State, (hopefully UNI, maybe not), and maybe some others will be taking steps up in talent.

I'm not saying you won't be competitive or maybe even have a shot at success, but your road wouldn't be getting easier than last years. If you want to stay in the Horizon and never open up your ability to really grow as a program just because a few people have their doubts, then so be it.

[SanityLost17]

Outside the box thinking:
A10 = 14 schools 
HL = 10 schools
MVC = 9 schools
OVC = 12 schools
Summit = 9 schools
Total = 54 schools

Since at-large bids are now borderline impossible.  Why not come together to create 8 team conferences?  Currently we have these 5 conferences representing  54 schools.  Add in 2 more schools to the mix from somewhere and you get 56 schools.  That is 7 conferences as opposed to the current 5.  8 schools in each.  2 more teams in the NCAA tourney every year and a greater % chance of getting your auto-bid.  If you made 2 really strong conferences out of those 7 than perhaps 1 of the 2 stacked conferences get an at-large every year out of those 56 schools.  8 bids every year instead of 5. 

Smaller conferences, not larger ones.  Game the system.   

[vusupporter]

Just because a conference is formed doesn't mean it immediately receives an automatic bid into the NCAA Tournament.

[justducky]

Chairback are you saying that WSU was the "Butler of the HL"?

Speaking of Butler, after their departure LeCrone had a brief moment in time where the HL could have been reinvented. He puttered around with conventional thinking and the HL has been in a downward spiral ever since. Is the MVC commissioner any less of a moron?

I see little benefit in joining a 10 team MVC. Sorry. If they invite us and promise future expansion I would answer that we need to see the future NOW. 12 teams or nothing and I wouldn't rule out 14. I don't want to be rescued from one sinking ship by another that is taking on water.

[FieldGoodie05]

You guys shouldn't read too much into the MVC forum discussion. I think the nay-sayers have drowned out the rational people at this point. I think a majority of fans would be happy with this move, there are always gonna be the displeased coming to the forums to spew their arguments. I agree that it would be silly to say anyone but us has done better than you guys in the last few years.

That being said, your expectation to come in and rise to the top immediately may be a bit optimistic. Genuine question: Is your team gonna be improving next year or taking a step back?

You guys lost 4 Horizon league games last year and then against Mke in the tourney. It would be impossible to argue that 4 losses in your league wouldn't translate into a few more losses in Valley play. That still puts you around the top 3 because of how below average accross the board the Valley was last year. This year, Bradley, Loyola, Missouri State, (hopefully UNI, maybe not), and maybe some others will be taking steps up in talent.

I'm not saying you won't be competitive or maybe even have a shot at success, but your road wouldn't be getting easier than last years. If you want to stay in the Horizon and never open up your ability to really grow as a program just because a few people have their doubts, then so be it.

Points well recvd, we have to get lucky to be Top3 next year in MVC.  A lot of young moving parts.  We'd need to gel earlier than a young team traditionally does, but it's not inconceivable to go .500 in a first year in a new conference with 70% unproven talent.

[Valpower]

You guys shouldn't read too much into the MVC forum discussion. I think the nay-sayers have drowned out the rational people at this point. I think a majority of fans would be happy with this move, there are always gonna be the displeased coming to the forums to spew their arguments. I agree that it would be silly to say anyone but us has done better than you guys in the last few years.

That being said, your expectation to come in and rise to the top immediately may be a bit optimistic. Genuine question: Is your team gonna be improving next year or taking a step back?

You guys lost 4 Horizon league games last year and then against Mke in the tourney. It would be impossible to argue that 4 losses in your league wouldn't translate into a few more losses in Valley play. That still puts you around the top 3 because of how below average accross the board the Valley was last year. This year, Bradley, Loyola, Missouri State, (hopefully UNI, maybe not), and maybe some others will be taking steps up in talent.

I'm not saying you won't be competitive or maybe even have a shot at success, but your road wouldn't be getting easier than last years. If you want to stay in the Horizon and never open up your ability to really grow as a program just because a few people have their doubts, then so be it.

I wouldn't read too much into predictions of quick dominance either. We would have some adjusting to do, but no more than we did for the HL. I feel we have a great nucleus and a good coach and that the expected fall-off in performance this season in the HL would be about 1 or 2 spots, but with lots of upside potentiality.  In the MVC it could go many ways, especially depending on whether 3 teams are added or just us, but I don't see us being an anchor on the league.

I will say this; I'm surprised nobody is talking about the idea that the MVC would be significantly better than it was with WSU if they do succeed in adding Valpo, Murray State, and Belmont. It would be a hell of a conference.

[wh]

You guys shouldn't read too much into the MVC forum discussion. I think the nay-sayers have drowned out the rational people at this point. I think a majority of fans would be happy with this move, there are always gonna be the displeased coming to the forums to spew their arguments. I agree that it would be silly to say anyone but us has done better than you guys in the last few years.

That being said, your expectation to come in and rise to the top immediately may be a bit optimistic. Genuine question: Is your team gonna be improving next year or taking a step back?

You guys lost 4 Horizon league games last year and then against Mke in the tourney. It would be impossible to argue that 4 losses in your league wouldn't translate into a few more losses in Valley play. That still puts you around the top 3 because of how below average accross the board the Valley was last year. This year, Bradley, Loyola, Missouri State, (hopefully UNI, maybe not), and maybe some others will be taking steps up in talent.

I'm not saying you won't be competitive or maybe even have a shot at success, but your road wouldn't be getting easier than last years. If you want to stay in the Horizon and never open up your ability to really grow as a program just because a few people have their doubts, then so be it.

Here's the difference between HL fans and MVC fans. The day Butler left we had enough self awareness to know that we weren't the same conference we were 24 hours before. Then, when we started hearing rumors about Oakland possibly joining the HL, no one - and I mean no one - on any HL board started picking at Oakland's accomplishments, or attributing their success to 1 player, or trashing their small gym, or criticizing that they're weren't as good as Butler (dah!).  We didn't make their fans feel like they had to defend their image and reputation, or tell them "you might find success over here in time."  Nor did we turn Oakland fans enthused about the prospects of joining the HL into HL haters in a matter of 2 days of arrogant, condescending, critical, childish comments and comparisons.

Good luck to your conference going forward.

[IrishDawg]

In terms of LeCrone, the question I'd most want to have answered is why did he go from the #1 seed hosting to having the conference tournament in Detroit.  If the goal is to maximize the number of NCAA tournament units, then why change the format of the tournament?

I will say that the 2 programs that he invited have proven that they were good choices for additions to the league.  NKU especially, with their facilities and as young as they were this year, really has a chance to be a program consistently at the top of the Horizon.

Again, I can certainly see why the MVC would want to have Valpo in their league, but while the MVC might be a better league than the Horizon, I don't know if I'd say it's necessarily a better situation for Valpo (from the outside looking in). 

Also, "the MVC with Murray State, Belmont and Valpo would be better than it was with WSU", IMO, it wouldn't be better than it was with Wichita State.  With the Shockers, it was pretty much a guarantee that if someone other than WSU won the conference tournament, the MVC would get 2 bids.  While all 3 programs can be very solid to good, none of them have earned an at-large bid in the last 15 years.