Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VULB#62]

Did the leak just before the MVC meeting about Valpo playing Northwestern next year help its case for the MVC leadership and in selling Valpo to MVC fans, or was that just a coincidence. 

Either way, it couldn't hurt our attractiveness much ya think?

[VU2014]

Changed the Twitter Account Name to 'Valpo Hoops Fan' 

[VU2014]

I am really surprised that we haven't heard/seen a leak yet. They are actually keeping the lid on this thing.

[elephtheria47]

Is there a deadline for a Valpo decision on whether to join or not if invited? Id imagine the MVC would want a team for next season in MBB already....but id imagine a switch would start for the fall sports? Are fall sports schedules planned already or how far in advance?

[VULB#62]

Volleyball - no schedule posted yet
Football - 2017 posted but N/A for MVC
MSO - Not posted yet (but OOC games open the schedule and then we drop into conference play.  There are fewer MVC schools playing men's' soccer so more OOC will be needed
WSO - Not posted yet (but OOC games open the schedule and then we drop into conference play.  There are fewer MVC schools playing men's' soccer so more OOC will be needed
MCC & WCC - CC runs at different invitationals all Fall and then runs in the conference championship meet near the end.  Should not be as issue
MT & WT - Fall season and a spring season. Few dual matches -- big match is the conference match in the spring
Mg & WG - Fall season and a spring season. Few dual matches -- big match is the conference match in the spring

Doesn't look like much would need to be changed if a change in conference happens.

[Rogobob77]

Most conferences have a graduated exit fee structure, i.e., the shorter the notice the higher the fee. The A-10 imposes a $2 million fee if the notice is less than 12 months, the fee is less with greater notice. In other words, most colleges can exit their league affiliation rather quickly, but it typically comes at a high financial cost. Not sure what the exit penalty is for the Horizon, but here is some info on a few of the majors:

ACC: School must notify conference at least ten months in advance and pay three years' worth of conference distributions (roughly $50 million).

Big 12: School must notify conference at least 24 months in advance and pay one years' worth of conference distributions (roughly $19 million). Schools can accelerate their exits, but they must pay more to do so: notification prior to 18 months increases exit fee by 40%, prior to 12 months increases fee by 60%, prior to six months by 80% and within six months doubles the fee. Conference also has grant of media rights through 2024-25.

Big East: School must notify conference at least 27 months in advance and pay $5 million. Schools can accelerate their exits, but they must pay more to do so: an immediate exit cost West Virginia an additional $15 million; leaving one year earlier cost Pittsburgh and Syracuse an extra $2.5 million each.

[Chairback]

I bet they offer Belmont the spot, Belmont turns it down, and they stay at 9 for the short term and do not add anyone this coming season.

[FieldGoodie05]

Solid fact filled article on attendance, budgets and detriments that Belmont saw in declining the offer prior.

http://www.kxel.com/panthers/2017/04/10/reports-mvc-interested-in-belmont-valparaiso-murray-state-after-wsu-departure

[VU2014]

Solid fact filled article on attendance, budgets and detriments that Belmont saw in declining the offer prior.

http://www.kxel.com/panthers/2017/04/10/reports-mvc-interested-in-belmont-valparaiso-murray-state-after-wsu-departure

Good Article.

"Valparaiso operates with a $2.66 million basketball budget, has averaged 25.2 wins the past five years and has an average attendance of 3,572. Valpo is a good fit geographically but would likely need to make promises to the Valley that they will upgrade their facilities in the near future."

Yeah that most likely won't be happening under President Heckler unfortunately... They've had 4 yrs to do something and haven't done anything but kick the tire down the road. But to honest I don't understand why it would be a deal breaker for the MVC. The seating capacity is in line with some MVC schools and Valpo has a pretty good track record of attendance when we aren't playing the same old garbage HL teams that come through the ARC. And the genius's in the Horizon League Offices manage to schedule Oakland on Spring Breaks or when the student off of campus...

Pretty interesting to see other regions sites (covering MVC schools) pointing out the facilities possibly being an issue with a MVC invite. Is this just a writer spitting out an old narrative or did they actually hear from a source that it could be a sticking point on an invite. I just don't see President Heckler committing to ARC improvement on the dotted line.

I bet they offer Belmont the spot, Belmont turns it down, and they stay at 9 for the short term and do not add anyone this coming season.

Would be unfortunate for the MVC. Personally think they'd be making the wrong move. Better to do it now rather then later. Especially if the HL starts to project better next season. HL is also in talks about expansion with Omaha and a few other schools like Denver. May not be the best time to sit on their hands in this type of environment.

[wh]

I bet they offer Belmont the spot, Belmont turns it down, and they stay at 9 for the short term and do not add anyone this coming season.

I agree with an earlier poster who said if they only offer 1, I hope it's somebody else, or if it's Valpo we turn them down. The impact of losing their top 2 programs, adding a struggling program, along with widespread enrollment and budget problems currently, is more than 1 good addition is going to cure.

[Dave_2010]

Yeah that most likely won't be happening under President Heckler unfortunately... They've had 4 yrs to do something and haven't done anything but kick the tire down the road.

That's largely because Heckler has managed to get the university in debt up to its eyeballs on building projects over the last few years. Say what you will about Harre, but at least he paid for buildings before breaking ground.



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[VULB#62]

Yeah that most likely won't be happening under President Heckler unfortunately... They've had 4 yrs to do something and haven't done anything but kick the tire down the road.

That's largely because Heckler has managed to get the university in debt up to its eyeballs on building projects over the last few years. Say what you will about Harre, but at least he paid for buildings before breaking ground.

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Really?.

[vu72]

Yeah that most likely won't be happening under President Heckler unfortunately... They've had 4 yrs to do something and haven't done anything but kick the tire down the road.

That's largely because Heckler has managed to get the university in debt up to its eyeballs on building projects over the last few years. Say what you will about Harre, but at least he paid for buildings before breaking ground.



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Total BS

[zvillehaze]

I bet they offer Belmont the spot, Belmont turns it down, and they stay at 9 for the short term and do not add anyone this coming season.

I agree with an earlier poster who said if they only offer 1, I hope it's somebody else, or if it's Valpo we turn them down. The impact of losing their top 2 programs, adding a struggling program, along with widespread enrollment and budget problems currently, is more than 1 good addition is going to cure.

I agree with wh on this one.  There are a lot of hurdles (exit fees, transition process, modifying schedules, etc.) that go along with switching conferences.  You should only do it if there are clear tangible advantages to making the move.  If not, staying put, building your program and waiting for the right opportunity is the best move.

For reference, Butler (maybe by luck and taking advantage of massive conference realignment) was able to make a clear step up to the a-10, which positioned them to make another jump to the New Big East.  Both were no-brainers, IMO, but even then, didn't happen without challenges.  But the A-10 had 5 NCAAT bids in 2013 and then the Big East has had 4-6 bids (from10 teams) per year since.

Moving to the MVC doesn't guarantee that success.  Valpo would be moving from one one-bid league to the MVC, a likely one-bid league without Creighton or WSU.  It might be a positive move, but clearly not a no-brainer.

[VU2014]

Yeah that most likely won't be happening under President Heckler unfortunately... They've had 4 yrs to do something and haven't done anything but kick the tire down the road.

That's largely because Heckler has managed to get the university in debt up to its eyeballs on building projects over the last few years. Say what you will about Harre, but at least he paid for buildings before breaking ground.



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Most of the new buildings or additions have been donations. I know they funded the new Arts & Sciences building with bonds. The debt was pretty safe last I checked. Been a while though.

[FieldGoodie05]

Yeah that most likely won't be happening under President Heckler unfortunately... They've had 4 yrs to do something and haven't done anything but kick the tire down the road.

That's largely because Heckler has managed to get the university in debt up to its eyeballs on building projects over the last few years. Say what you will about Harre, but at least he paid for buildings before breaking ground.



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Total BS

I'm not agreeing with either on this topic.  But how have all of these buildings been paid for / being paid for?

[a3uge]

I don't think Belmont and Murray State being in the same conference together is necessarily good for mid major basketball. Murray State hasn't been to the tournament since the 2011-12 season, and Belmont's​ been twice since joining the OVC, but they had gone to the tournament 5 times in their last 7 years of the A-Sun.

If the MVC added Valpo, and the two OVC schools, you're probably talking about 1 bid being handed out between one of Valpo, Murray State, Belmont, and UNI. Maybe there's an at-large there with those four programs, but consolidating top mid majors might be counterproductive.

[FieldGoodie05]

I don't think Belmont and Murray State being in the same conference together is necessarily good for mid major basketball. Murray State hasn't been to the tournament since the 2011-12 season, and Belmont's​ been twice since joining the OVC, but they had gone to the tournament 5 times in their last 7 years of the A-Sun.

If the MVC added Valpo, and the two OVC schools, you're probably talking about 1 bid being handed out between one of Valpo, Murray State, Belmont, and UNI. Maybe there's an at-large there with those four programs, but consolidating top mid majors might be counterproductive.

I also stated this a while back.  Saying this to reassert myself and agree with a3uge here.

What is our recruiting niche if we're not in the top two of the conference year in and year out? So what jam this conference full of quality mid-majors, what recruit is going to come to VU to fight for fourth place?

I know this is shortsighted, but I think the Horizon league with some improved teams overall is a decent league for us. I am not going to say I don't want the Missouri Valley conference,  but I could take it or leave it.

[VU2014]

I don't think Belmont and Murray State being in the same conference together is necessarily good for mid major basketball. Murray State hasn't been to the tournament since the 2011-12 season, and Belmont's​ been twice since joining the OVC, but they had gone to the tournament 5 times in their last 7 years of the A-Sun.

If the MVC added Valpo, and the two OVC schools, you're probably talking about 1 bid being handed out between one of Valpo, Murray State, Belmont, and UNI. Maybe there's an at-large there with those four programs, but consolidating top mid majors might be counterproductive.

I also stated this a while back.  Saying this to reassert myself and agree with a3uge here.

What is our recruiting niche if we're not in the top two of the conference year in and year out? So what jam this conference full of quality mid-majors, what recruit is going to come to VU to fight for fourth place?

I know this is shortsighted, but I think the Horizon league with some improved teams overall is a decent league for us. I am not going to say I don't want the Missouri Valley conference,  but I could take it or leave it.

I really do think the MVC with Valpo, Belmont, and Murray State could become a multi-bid league again over time as long as the majority of schools in the MVC are fully commit the basketball financially and don't make bad hires.

Peope forget that Wichita State was not "special" before Gregg Marshall around 06-07'. Programs can grow and develop into powerhouse like WSU as long as they have the funding to retain their coach and are willing to invest in the program. Now WSU benefitted from having Creighton in the Conf so that is one thing to consider. The MVC will not be a 2-bid league for the foreseeable future but it doesn't mean they never can be.

Also if the MVC becomes competitive enough and prove it can be a 2-bid league some years then maybe the MVC could finally convince SLU to rejoin the MVC and save a boat load on Travel costs and pretty much have a home Conf Tournament in their back yard. Maybe eventually Dayton could join the MVC one day. A lot of IFs in this scenario I concede.

If Valpo gets offered an invite then we have to make that jump. If we don't then likely another HL school will make that jump. The HL will be a better the next few years but if one of these HL schools loses their coach like UIC then success is likely to follow the coach. UIC is not the only team in the HL that is in that scenario. Some MVC have funding questions but there are more of those cases in the HL.

[FieldGoodie05]

 You make solid points VU2014, but budgets only stay high if TV money and income stay high.   I think 2019 is the restructure year for the TV money.   What's going to happen when they don't get that same paycheck annually? Will the MVC contract like the HL did post Butler?

I don't necessarily like the commuter school aspect of some of the Horizon league schools so that is one big plus to my small mind.  I'm still pretty up in the air on the transition. Would be nice to make some new rivalries and renew others.

[justducky]

If the MVC added Valpo, and the two OVC schools, you're probably talking about 1 bid being handed out between one of Valpo, Murray State, Belmont, and UNI. Maybe there's an at-large there with those four programs, but consolidating top mid majors might be counterproductive.

If Murray St and Belmont both called LeCrone wanting into the HL we would be screaming for him to get them signed up, and our romance with the MVC would be over. Yes there is danger in consolidating top mid majors but weigh it against the benefits. The Horizon appears to have fallen to a level of temporary stability (probably on an up tick) while the Valley hasn't yet started its full descent.

The MVC needs to make a big move and make it now. We need to see that commissioner Elgin understands this problem before we consider signing on.

I would much prefer not to be in an every year one bid league. I want Elgin or LeCrone or both to figure out some configuration or method of mutual assistance where mid major at-large quality teams are rewarded with at-large bids. I'll let the rest of you worry about public vs private and the academic comparisons. 

[ml2]

Yeah that most likely won't be happening under President Heckler unfortunately... They've had 4 yrs to do something and haven't done anything but kick the tire down the road.

That's largely because Heckler has managed to get the university in debt up to its eyeballs on building projects over the last few years. Say what you will about Harre, but at least he paid for buildings before breaking ground.



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Total BS

I'm not agreeing with either on this topic.  But how have all of these buildings been paid for / being paid for?

Since President Heckler came to Valpo I believe the following projects have been donor funded: the Gellerson addition, the Welcome Center, the Chapel Addition, the track.

And the following projects have been financed with debt: The Arts & Sciences building, Beacon Hall Dorm, purchase of the Porter Hospital property, new Chemistry Lab building (under construction now) and the Sorority housing next to the ARC.   

[VU2014]

If the MVC added Valpo, and the two OVC schools, you're probably talking about 1 bid being handed out between one of Valpo, Murray State, Belmont, and UNI. Maybe there's an at-large there with those four programs, but consolidating top mid majors might be counterproductive.

If Murray St and Belmont both called LeCrone wanting into the HL we would be screaming for him to get them signed up, and our romance with the MVC would be over. Yes there is danger in consolidating top mid majors but weigh it against the benefits. The Horizon appears to have fallen to a level of temporary stability (probably on an up tick) while the Valley hasn't yet started its full descent.

The MVC needs to make a big move and make it now. We need to see that commissioner Elgin understands this problem before we consider signing on.

I would much prefer not to be in an every year one bid league. I want Elgin or LeCrone or both to figure out some configuration or method of mutual assistance where mid major at-large quality teams are rewarded with at-large bids. I'll let the rest of you worry about public vs private and the academic comparisons. 

The only way of potentially regaining 2-bid status is if the Conference grab the best Mid-Major Schools available and hope teams like IL St, Valpo, Belmont, UNI build on their success and take the programs to another level. The OVC is a 1-bid league and so is HL. The MVC has the "bones" for more stable programs to build success. The HL is a few coaching switches away from being completely unstable. If the HL lost Valpo it would really be a blow to the conferences competitiveness going forward and I believe a few schools would seriously consider leaving for the Summit. Thats not a stable conference in my book.

In this new era there really is no such thing as a stable MidMajor conference though. There are a lot of unhappy and very unsatisfied schools in their conference with no where to jump to beside lateral or jumping to a worse conference (at least in the MVC schools eyes). A new midwest midmajor would be the best things for the Top Mids right now but I don't know where that type of leadership would come from.

[hailcrusaders]

Solid fact filled article on attendance, budgets and detriments that Belmont saw in declining the offer prior. http://www.kxel.com/panthers/2017/04/10/reports-mvc-interested-in-belmont-valparaiso-murray-state-after-wsu-departure

Good Article. "Valparaiso operates with a $2.66 million basketball budget, has averaged 25.2 wins the past five years and has an average attendance of 3,572. Valpo is a good fit geographically but would likely need to make promises to the Valley that they will upgrade their facilities in the near future." Yeah that most likely won't be happening under President Heckler unfortunately... They've had 4 yrs to do something and haven't done anything but kick the tire down the road. But to honest I don't understand why it would be a deal breaker for the MVC. The seating capacity is in line with some MVC schools and Valpo has a pretty good track record of attendance when we aren't playing the same old garbage HL teams that come through the ARC. And the genius's in the Horizon League Offices manage to schedule Oakland on Spring Breaks or when the student off of campus... Pretty interesting to see other regions sites (covering MVC schools) pointing out the facilities possibly being an issue with a MVC invite. Is this just a writer spitting out an old narrative or did they actually hear from a source that it could be a sticking point on an invite. I just don't see President Heckler committing to ARC improvement on the dotted line. 

I think their hesitation may have less to do with the overall capacity of the ARC and more to do with the fact that a majority of the seating is backless bleachers, making it feel like a high school gym, and the fact that VU has barely touched/upgraded it in the 30+ years it's been in use. 

[valpotx]

Again, I do not care about the multi-bid capability of our conference, as long as we are competing against like-minded universities.  In the HL, our academic profile is very different than each of the other schools.  If we can get into a more competitive conference that has more schools with like-minded academic profiles, I am all for it, regardless of number of bids.