Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[IrishDawg]

Again, I do not care about the multi-bid capability of our conference, as long as we are competing against like-minded universities.  In the HL, our academic profile is very different than each of the other schools.  If we can get into a more competitive conference that has more schools with like-minded academic profiles, I am all for it, regardless of number of bids.

Well put.  Especially in realignment, it is really important to end up with like-minded schools because having outliers (or being the outlier) in that sense means you aren't all pulling in a similar direction as the other schools you should be working with.  The MVC is unique in that it has both private and public institutions, but there are certainly more private universities with similar profiles to Valpo than are found in the Horizon.

[a3uge]

Again, I do not care about the multi-bid capability of our conference, as long as we are competing against like-minded universities.  In the HL, our academic profile is very different than each of the other schools.  If we can get into a more competitive conference that has more schools with like-minded academic profiles, I am all for it, regardless of number of bids.

Well put.  Especially in realignment, it is really important to end up with like-minded schools because having outliers (or being the outlier) in that sense means you aren't all pulling in a similar direction as the other schools you should be working with.  The MVC is unique in that it has both private and public institutions, but there are certainly more private universities with similar profiles to Valpo than are found in the Horizon.

I'd be more concerned with the "like-minded" private schools in the MVC than the public schools. Evansville, Drake, Bradley, and Loyola have been bad programs for awhile now. Wichita State and UNI have been carrying that conference.

Again, I do not care about the multi-bid capability of our conference, as long as we are competing against like-minded universities.  In the HL, our academic profile is very different than each of the other schools.  If we can get into a more competitive conference that has more schools with like-minded academic profiles, I am all for it, regardless of number of bids.

Are high schoolers choosing Bradley over Valpo because Valpo plays Cleveland State twice a year in basketball while Bradley plays Drake? I think it's absurd to think perspective students and current alumni care more about the basketball team playing Evansville and Loyola than having a chance at seeing the team play in the NCAA tournament due to being in a conference that receives more than one bid.

[crusadermoe]

Again, I think you align your future with the right peers for  many reasons.

One key reason is that there is no guarantee that even one "dance bid" goes to a mid-major conferences like MVC and Horizon in the future, and certainly its unlikely that mid-majors can squeeze in two bids in the ever tougher TV driven money.

I really hate to be gloomy, but I foresee all the non Power 6 teams relegated to a larger "play in" round of 16 etc. at best.  They got away with cheapening the bid for the new "Round One." That puts them closer to more teams playing on Tuesday before anyone cares or watches on TV.

[valpotx]

Athletes definitely choose one school over the other, due to the teams that they play against, regardless of the amount of NCAA bids.  Are you kidding me, in thinking that they don't??  When I found out that we had to play Chicago State several times each year in baseball, and that I had to travel to Southern Utah, Centenary, and several other far flung places, it almost swayed my decision.  The kids that care about getting multiple bids are usually people that Valpo cannot attract anyways, as they are probably top players. 

If you are just talking about general students choosing Valpo (not athletes), if they end up following Valpo sports, I can definitely say that they would take more pride in saying that they compete against the MVC schools, versus what we have in the Horizon.  People have heard of most schools in the MVC, whereas you have to explain about some HL schools (Cleveland State, Youngstown State, etc). 

[VU2014]

Evansville, Drake, Bradley, and Loyola have been bad programs for awhile now. Wichita State and UNI have been carrying that conference.

-Evansville was good a few years ago.

-Drake has been consistently not great but I believe in 07'-08' Drake had very good team that went to the tourney but haven't been great since. They went to the CIT a few times I believe in the last decade or so. They have very nice facilities.

-Bradley just a few years ago has started reinvesting in the basketball program and hired Brian Wardle (former Green Bay HC). They have some history and decent facilities.

-Loyola isn't a great basketball schools but Coach Porter has really recruited well the last few years and they should be better in the future.

-Illinois State will be a pretty good program for the foreseeable future. The Favorites for next year.

-UNI is a good program and has had a lot of success the last 10 years.

Yes losing Wichita State (Creighton a few yrs ago) has hurt the Conference but it's not like the Conference is trash. I'd personally rather play these schools then the Horizon League schools from competitive standpoint. There is also the better "fit" like others have mentioned. The MVC schools will definitely sell better at the ARC from fan interest, imo.

[Lurking Dog]

Again, I do not care about the multi-bid capability of our conference, as long as we are competing against like-minded universities.  In the HL, our academic profile is very different than each of the other schools.  If we can get into a more competitive conference that has more schools with like-minded academic profiles, I am all for it, regardless of number of bids.

I think Valpo will probably join the MVC, with at least one other school.

But an expanded Valley is going to be a one bid conference with a lot of teams.  And it will have just as many teachers colleges as "like-minded" private schools.

Ultimately, my prefered solution would be to take the current private schools in the Valley, and form a new conference with Valpo, Detroit, Belmont, and Lipscomb.  Just eight schools competing for one bid.

[a3uge]

Athletes definitely choose one school over the other, due to the teams that they play against, regardless of the amount of NCAA bids.  Are you kidding me, in thinking that they don't??  When I found out that we had to play Chicago State several times each year in baseball, and that I had to travel to Southern Utah, Centenary, and several other far flung places, it almost swayed my decision.  The kids that care about getting multiple bids are usually people that Valpo cannot attract anyways, as they are probably top players. 

If you are just talking about general students choosing Valpo (not athletes), if they end up following Valpo sports, I can definitely say that they would take more pride in saying that they compete against the MVC schools, versus what we have in the Horizon.  People have heard of most schools in the MVC, whereas you have to explain about some HL schools (Cleveland State, Youngstown State, etc).

Your argument has nothing to do with private vs public schools. Athletes and students are going to be more jazzed about playing a ranked UNI team than playing a bottom feeding Evansville team. This doesn't have anything to do with being a like-minded university. It has to do with actual athletic success.

[VU2014]

Again, I do not care about the multi-bid capability of our conference, as long as we are competing against like-minded universities.  In the HL, our academic profile is very different than each of the other schools.  If we can get into a more competitive conference that has more schools with like-minded academic profiles, I am all for it, regardless of number of bids.

We have to care about being in a multi-bid conference. The MVC may not be multi-bid league right now but there may be potential for teams to grow.

I want to play similar schools too, but that should not be the ultimate priority but instead a consideration. The MVC has more similar schools which is nice but not the total selling point leaving for the MVC. Definitely should help get butts in the seat in the ARC.

[valpotx]

I was responding to your general statement about not caring who they/we play, as long as they have multiple chances at the NCAA bid.

We are a private school of 4,500 in NW Indiana, who is often an afterthought in our own backyard.  We are never going to be in a conference that regularly gets multiple bids, especially with the direction that the Power 5 is going.  My thinking is that I would much rather be tied to several other private schools, who are often competing for the same types of students (not just athletes), rather than against schools that we really have no connection.  We could only muster 4,149 fans for a game at home against #21 URI, but had more fans against unranked Youngstown State (4,823).  No one in the HL travels to games at our facility, aside from some Oakland and Milwaukee fans.  I have to think that will change in the MVC, as there aren't as many commuter schools, so there are generally more people connected to the university.

[VU2014]

Paul dropping some knowledge and research:
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851849965928370176
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851850096446771202
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851850224263991297
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851850428748845058
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851850976545918977
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851851331761565696

Also Alec's former AAU coach and Taylor Bruninga's current coach asked a pretty big question that we've all been wondering ourselves:
https://twitter.com/Illinois_Irish/status/851852517285797890

[SanityLost17]

Is the MVC smart enough to schedule more Saturday conference games?   The HL sure isn't.  What did we have, 1 home Saturday night conference game this year?

I think our attendance is stronger than it looks.  Need a smart schedule to maximize attendance.

   

[VU2014]

Is the MVC smart enough to schedule more Saturday conference games?   The HL sure isn't.  What did we have, 1 home Saturday night conference game this year?

I think our attendance is stronger than it looks.  Need a smart schedule to maximize attendance.

   

I believe the HL has to cater to ESPN a lot on the scheduling unfortunately. HL has a contract that says they get on Friday night games I believe.

Horizon League offices are notoriously awful for scheduling rivalry games on poorly timed days. They scheduled both Valpo vs Oakland games when students were not on campus. Those games need to be when students are there and on cable not just ESPN3. (I believe one of them were on cable which was the one at Oakland).

But agreed that we definitely need more Saturday games! I know that we won't get on cable those days but Saturday are the prime days to schedule home games for schools.

[SanityLost17]

Answered my own question: 

Illinois State:  3 away Saturdays and 4 home Saturdays  for a total of 7 Saturday MVC games. 
Valpo: 2 away Saturdays and 1 home Saturday for a total of 3 Saturday HL games. 

For this reason alone we should move conferences. 

[valpo64]

Re:  A. Sullivan's (AP's and Bruninga's AAU coach) question on facility upgrade if we would move to the MVC...does that mean that Bruninga still has us on his list?  Also, are we still interested in him?

[M]

He has, and will continue to have, a whole team of kids he is trying to get to the next level.  Bruninga is just next in line.

[VU2014]

Re:  A. Sullivan's (AP's and Bruninga's AAU coach) question on facility upgrade if we would move to the MVC...does that mean that Bruninga still has us on his list?  Also, are we still interested in him?

I'm not sure. I'd have to think it may be too late in the recruiting process. Signing day is on April 12th already and he's been taking visits to a lot of MVC schools recently. 

My guess how the remaining 2 scholarships turnout:
-Shaq Calhoun or some other grad transfer gets one contract. A player that may be able to be relied upon & see minutes next season.

-the final scholarship will go to a RedShirt Transfer who will sit out next year. If the coaches don't land a red-shirt transfer they like then they hold onto the that scholarship and maybe keep a scholarship open for mid-season transfers.

This is all speculation on my part. So I guess there is a chance.

This tweet was from a few weeks ago when the news was announced that Lexus was transferring and we had 3 scholarships open:

It was an obvious reference to Taylor Bruninga. So maybe there is a chance. To be honest I'd like to see a Scholarship be offered to Taylor Bruninga. There is upside there. I honestly would love to ask the coaches privately what is stopping them from offering. My only guess would be the 2 other freshman PFs and 3 would be a lot to carry and might upset the Parker or Mileek. It also could be that they don't like him as much as other but I don't think that is the case at all.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/844663596063764480
https://twitter.com/Illinois_Irish/status/844667244114333704

[covufan]

Paul dropping some knowledge and research:

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851850976545918977

Did anything unique happen at that Bradley game in 83-84?

[covufan]

This talk of two bid conferences is premature.  We need to take care business on our own.  For a conference to have multiple bids, there need to be at least two teams in the top 40-45 in many of the ranking systems, or one team solidly in the top 30 but upset in conference tournament.  I believe Valpo in 2016 and Illinois St this past year had an argument for an at-large bid, but fell just short.  We also need to remember that the Power 6 conferences now have 75 members, of which about half are in the running for at-large berths.  That doesn't leave much room for the next level of conference (AAC, A10, MWC, West Coast, and MVC) for at-large bids. 

The conference (HL or MVC) really needs to get buy-in from all teams that expend resources within NCAA guidelines to maintain a quality men's basketball program.  It has become increasingly more difficult to maintain a quality coaching staff ($$), and players are leaving programs at a higher rate than 20 years ago.  Within our own conference there will always be a bottom half, with losing records in conference play.  That is unavoidable.  What the conference should desire is teams in the ranking range of 30-250, and no team below 250.  This past season, using Massey's Composite of 51 ranking systems, the HL had:

Oakland   88
Valpo       90
NKentucky 120
Wright St   146
Green Bay  184
UIC           229
Milwaukee  258
Cleveland   263
YSU           269
Detroit       305

We need all teams to elevate their programs, not just one or two. 

[valpotx]

In regards to Paul's statistics in regards to our record against the MVC, we had a very similar poor record against HL competition, before we joined.  That has changed substantially in 10 years

[valpo64]

Since in recent years we have been holding our recruiting cards close to the vest,  why should we conclude that we have not offered Bruninga? Or Fazikas(spell?) for that matter.

[covufan]

Since in recent years we have been holding our recruiting cards close to the vest,  why should we conclude that we have not offered Bruninga? Or Fazikas(spell?) for that matter.

These days, the recruit himself or his HS Coach or AAU coach would tweet out the news of a new offer.  No news, no offer.  We have also tweeted out news of offers as well, especially with official on campus visits. 

[VU2014]

Since in recent years we have been holding our recruiting cards close to the vest,  why should we conclude that we have not offered Bruninga? Or Fazikas(spell?) for that matter.

These days, the recruit himself or his HS Coach or AAU coach would tweet out the news of a new offer.  No news, no offer.  We have also tweeted out news of offers as well, especially with official on campus visits. 

Yep. Its hard to keep things a secret these days.

Valpo still isn't very public about their recruiting as much as a lot of other coaching staffs but things are starting to change with social media.

I've heard stories of AAU coaches lying about school interest just to try and gin up interest and try & bring other coaches to practice and games. AAU can be a shady business. There are some really great coaches that care about the kids but then there are also a LOT of scumbags out there just pimping out the kids for $.

[vu84v2]

Paul dropping some knowledge and research:

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851850976545918977

Did anything unique happen at that Bradley game in 83-84?

Bradley fouled out enough players that they had to finish the game with four players.

[usc4valpo]

And that was followed three weeks later by the Rob Harden one finger salute against Eastern Kentucky, which summed up the season and Tom Smith's coaching tenure.

[wh]

Side benefits of joining the MVC -

• listening to Wardle drop the f-bomb 50 times in the Bradley huddle
• telling Hinson how much I enjoyed listening to his classic postgame rant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8OeZ7S8x3Y