Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[Vinny]

I'm still completely confused as to how and why the University purchased a piece of property (condemned parking garage) without performing basic due diligence.

[VU2014]

I'm still completely confused as to how and why the University purchased a piece of property (condemned parking garage) without performing basic due diligence.

Is the Parking garage really not in usable shape? I thought they just weren't using it because they never built anything in that area yet.

I forget what they are suppose to build on the Porter County property. It's in the "Master Plan"... Its not have a Master Plan & too know the general lay out of what could be built there but it seems like its used as mostly prop to try and raise $ off of more then anything else. I think someone mention that property was suppose to be used for the student rec center and possibly where the "future" indoor track will be built.

[ml2]

I would prefer for a minimum capacity of 7,000 for Valley schools.

If you start with the kind of schools that the MVC could potentially attract:

1) Schools not already in a stronger conference (P5, BE, A10, AAC - or already in the MVC)
2) Schools that do NOT have FBS football.

And then look to the strongest basketball programs over time (ie. six year average Ken Pom rating in the top 100), that leaves you with just 10 schools - nationwide. Of those 10, only 1 - Stephen F. Austin in rural southeast Texas - has an arena capacity over 7,000.

[UNIfan]

I would prefer for a minimum capacity of 7,000 for Valley schools.

What's the reason behind that seemingly arbitrary number? Adding successful basketball programs is priority number 1, and like others have mentioned, The A-10 succeeds with lower attendance, and Valpo has a much bigger gym than Belmont and higher attendance than Murray State. I think its a total non-issue compared to other facilities. Your redbirds didn't have a single sell out in your best season in well over a decade, and frequently didn't hit 7000 this season. UNI didn't even sell out every game in arguably our best ever season in 14-15. ISUr and MSU certainly have the most legit arenas in the valley now, and the valley as a whole has a lot of nice arenas, but its time to look past that in the current state of mid majors. Fact of the matter is, with Valpo, we know we would bring in a team that can fill their gym and not have lousy sub-2000 attendance like a lot of other candidates.

I think Valpo would see an immediate bump in attendance. New conference with new teams would bring in some excitement, and playing more recognizable names like those old rivals you guys speak of and other good brands like UNI would all help. However, that novelty could wear off quickly if you don't find success.

[ml2]

Not to belabor the point too much, but the program that KenPom rates as far and way the worst in America over the last 6 years is Grambling State.

They have a very nice looking 7,500 seat arena.

[VU2014]

Not to belabor the point too much, but the program that KenPom rates as far and way the worst in America over the last 6 years is Grambling State.

They have a very nice looking 7,500 seat arena.

We have a better "jumbo"-tron 

I would prefer for a minimum capacity of 7,000 for Valley schools.

I think Valpo would see an immediate bump in attendance. New conference with new teams would bring in some excitement, and playing more recognizable names like those old rivals you guys speak of and other good brands like UNI would all help. However, that novelty could wear off quickly if you don't find success.

UNIfan, I agree. I really think Playing teams like UNI, IL St, MSU, Bradley, Drake and definitely: Indiana St and E-Ville will boost attendance at the ARC. Also Valpo only had 1 Saturday home game last season (which is ridiculous scheduling by the Horizon League). MVC just plain and simple will sell better at the ARC. Valpo will probably never consistently be a school to have 7,000 people at every game if we built a new arena with more capacity but I think we could get about 4,000 and above consistently in a competitive MVC Conference.



Side-Note: Does anyone know if the ARC staff will figure out a better way to play those Family Express commercials?

Those Family-Express commercials are AWFUL. They are extremely loud and kill the somewhat the vibe of the games. The commercials hurt the pep-band and take away from them. Maybe it's just me but it takes away from the fan experience of going the game. It's just so obnoxious.

I'm joking a little but it makes me want to take my business to anywhere but Family Express. I hope the Athletics Department addresses this. I know I sound like an old man complaining but I honestly think it takes away from the game a bit.

[hailcrusaders]

I also think that the facility size and quality issue is very much overblown.  Several A-10 schools have much crappier arenas than we do, and much smaller facilities.  It seems to mainly be Missouri State and Illinois State fans bringing up this issue on the MVC forum. You also have the NDSU guy that is delusional, which is fun to read.

That's not lakesbison is it? Dude's legendary (infamous may be a better word). Thinks NDSU is Alabama reincarnated in Fargo. Has been banished from multiple forums.

[ISUBird]

I would prefer for a minimum capacity of 7,000 for Valley schools.

What's the reason behind that seemingly arbitrary number? Adding successful basketball programs is priority number 1, and like others have mentioned, The A-10 succeeds with lower attendance, and Valpo has a much bigger gym than Belmont and higher attendance than Murray State. I think its a total non-issue compared to other facilities. Your redbirds didn't have a single sell out in your best season in well over a decade, and frequently didn't hit 7000 this season. UNI didn't even sell out every game in arguably our best ever season in 14-15. ISUr and MSU certainly have the most legit arenas in the valley now, and the valley as a whole has a lot of nice arenas, but its time to look past that in the current state of mid majors. Fact of the matter is, with Valpo, we know we would bring in a team that can fill their gym and not have lousy sub-2000 attendance like a lot of other candidates.

I think Valpo would see an immediate bump in attendance. New conference with new teams would bring in some excitement, and playing more recognizable names like those old rivals you guys speak of and other good brands like UNI would all help. However, that novelty could wear off quickly if you don't find success.

As stated in my post above, the MVC has just lost/is losing their top two teams in terms of attendance.  The most recent replacement, Loyola, only has a capacity of 4,486 for basketball.  The next lowest team's capacity is 7,018.  I think that whoever is added should have, or be required to upgrade to match the smallest arena in the MVC pre-realignment.

I'm not convinced playing in the MVC alone will boost attendance (as I mentioned with Loyola) and it would give Valparaiso an excuse to upgrade where a decent amount of people would like to see an upgrade.

[wh]

The MVC's Loyola experiment reminds me of the movie "Trading Places" with Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroid. Take a bum off the street, dress him up, put him in a better social situation, and he becomes a shining star.  Now that everyone recognizes what a naive, stupid decision that was, they're gripped with fear that their brain trust is about to do it again.  Never mind that Valpo has dominated the last 2 leagues it's been in with the same poor-man's facilities Loyola had BEFORE they remodeled, never mind that Valpo won the last 4 contests with Butler on their way out the door, never mind that Valpo has won the HL league championship 5 of the past 6 seasons, and played in 2 NCAA tournaments, and went to the NIT championship game, and averaged 25+wins. Never mind that Valpo's pitiful little venue is considered nationally as having incredible game atmosphere - that ESPN loves to broadcast from the ARC.  Never mind that recruits walk away from a hotly contested game at the ARC overwhelmed by the electricity, noise, and rabid student section, something they almost never experience in the half empty barns of other mid-majors. Oh, and never mind that the program that tied us for the league championship this year has the smallest venue in the HL.  Huh, how can that be?

Moral of the story - not all bums are created equally.  Relax, MVC fans.   

I should add that we're not Wichita State and don't pretend to be.  Heck, Wichita State wasn't Wichita State before the last 6 years.  In fact, they had exactly 5 winning seasons in the prior 20 years. That said, there are no Wichita States on the market, including none anywhere close in the MVC. Only a combination of Valpo, Murray State and Belmont is going to restore the MVC to glory. It will be interesting to see how things play out.   

[agibson]

I'm still completely confused as to how and why the University purchased a piece of property (condemned parking garage) without performing basic due diligence.

Is the Parking garage really not in usable shape? I thought they just weren't using it because they never built anything in that area yet.

I forget what they are suppose to build on the Porter County property. It's in the "Master Plan"... Its not have a Master Plan & too know the general lay out of what could be built there but it seems like its used as mostly prop to try and raise $ off of more then anything else. I think someone mention that property was suppose to be used for the student rec center and possibly where the "future" indoor track will be built.

I've never seen it in writing, but it's been widely discussed on campus that the parking garage is structurally unsound (a mysterious surprise after purchase) and that's why it has been closed. I believe that it was open for a time, and even advertised as men's basketball parking.

We've normally talked about the Porter site as the putative Fieldhouse. I think there's a vision that it could (additionally) host a soccer-specific competition field. But, likely both are projects looking for donors.

[agibson]

Seems that chairbacks on both sides of the lower bowl would help, along with significant addition to concessions and restrooms.  The lines for both of those are ridiculous, even when there isn't a significant crowd.  I also still go back to WH's post about parking.  Seems that they should put down some gravel in the old Porter Hospital lot. Seems to me that giving prospective fans a place to park, sit without a backache, and snack and go to the john (without a 20 minute wait) should be the priorities for bringing in more fans (and their money).

As I mentioned before, the university took what was an "indoor-only" problem and compounded it by systematically eliminating available parking in every direction around the ARC. Someone commented in the "Facilities" thread that building new facilities on former parking lots and building new facilities without parking lots is part of the university's plan to transition to a "walking" campus. That's fine - for healthy 18-22 year old kids.  It's not fine for the general public (your target market for basketball games) with an age range of 8-80.  People are looking for ease of access, convenience, and limited exposure to the elements. For example, how many people are going to frequent a restaurant when every time they go they have to circle the neighborhood only to find a parking spot 2 or 3 blocks away (in winter time, no less). Same with going to the movies, or to the grocery store.  And, finding a spot is only half the battle.  When the game's over, busy people at the end of their day want to walk out to an adjacent parking lot, again with as little exposure to the elements, get in their car, and get home.  Put another way, the fan "experience" should begin and end at the entrance to the building.

As someone else suggested, adding an expansive parking area on the SE corner of the old hospital grounds is a good idea.  To cover the cost, I would make it a "pay" lot @ $5/vehicle.  Trust me, people will flock to it.  I would also turn the lot directly across the street to the south of the ARC into a premium pay lot ($10/vehicle).  Trust me again, people will flock to it (including myself, other family members, friends).  I would do the same for women's games. Up until 5 p.m., the lots can be used for general parking, just like the small lot adjacent to the west side of the ARC.  People will love it.  Attendance will pick up dramatically, and the university will have a new revenue source (plus increased revenues from ticket sales).  Low risk - high reward. 

I agree this would be a good move in theory but that parking lot is mainly used by the JR/SR students on campus who live in Guild Memorial Hall. Those students are already paying for parking passes that University forces every student who has a car on campus to purchase every year. I forget what the prices were when I was on campus a few years ago, but just did a quick search and they are $100 for a single semester or $180 for 2 semesters and $225 to include the summers. Not cheap to a college kid.

If the University started forcing students to start parking else where it would cause an uproar. There is no other parking lot "near" for the students in guild memorial.

Sorry for the long quote, but not sure how to break it up further. It sounds like people are arguing for an off-campus basketball facility, more or less. Or maybe campus adjacent but surrounded, arena style, by acres of parking. I guess that could maybe work on the edge of campus, with the parking on the far side of the basketball facility. I guess that could be, at least in part, the Porter site but it would preclude using it for anything else. No Fieldhouse, for example. In the interim it seems nice to have a big chunk of grass for recreational purposes, besides Eastgate. Maybe the 3D site could be a part of the solution, if we held onto it into an era where we really did want a new basketball facility? I'm not sure it's big enough for a moderate arena plus adequate parking.

In detail, remember that there is _already_ paid parking near the ARC. The lot south of the ARC is yours if you contribute to the Crusader Fund ($200 or more annually, tax deductible) and then pay an additional $100 for the season. I guess they do let the dorm residents leave their cars there, but they kick out staff and commuter students. The lots north and west of the ARC are yours if you join the Crusader Fund at a higher level ($1000 I think) and then pay $200 per season. A higher-level donation gets your a reserved spot in that west lot. That's all for, what, 18 or so home games?

So, there is paid parking available, about as close as you can imagine. But, it's not so cheap. If they were going to offer it for a single game at a time these prices would suggest they start at $15, maybe $20, a game for the south lot. I guess $60 or more for the better lots. I'm not sure either of those price points would get a lot of takers, and I bet they would raise eyebrows. But, maybe I'm wrong.

At the moment "appealing parking for donors to the program" seems like a more manageable sell. Maybe they need to market it better? But it's in all the season ticket brochures.

I'd not noticed the ARC Suite hospitality! That $1000/year Crusader Fund contribution makes you eligible. $250/season then gets you heavy hors d'oeuvres, dessert, guest speakers, and a cash bar! I did enjoy my half-time beer in Champaign during the NIT.

For those who don't like the walk (and in the winter, or for some for whom walking isn't so easy, I understand), would a shuttle from a remote lot, maybe behind the Union, be appealing?

For some people waiting for the shuttle would be a non-starter, as it would be faster to walk. But, the ADA Parking (in front of the student fitness center) does seem to fill up. And maybe some would be happy to wait (maybe in the Union? not sure if seating could be managed) for a shuttle.

As it stands now, I regularly do drop off older guests, and sometimes my whole family, in front of the ARC so that I'm the only one walking from the softball field, or Union, etc.

[talksalot]

Paul dropping some knowledge and research:

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/851850976545918977

Which means none of those teams have ever played in the ARC.  That Bradley game was their last trip to Valpo, in Hilltop Gym... Valpo won it 73-55... and proceeded to only win 4 more games all year (4-18 to close out the season)

[wh]

Only 2 rows of the south parking lot are designated "Gold members only," and they're usually half empty at game time. The athletic department can't be getting much revenue from it.  The rest of the lot is open parking, but as I mentioned before there isn't a spot to be had an hour before game time.  Students from anywhere and everywhere own that lot (including I'm sure sorority members who have no parking lot of their own).  Students are no different than anyone else.  They aren't going to walk on Valpo's "walking" campus if they don't have to.   

[Valpo89]

Regarding parking, I always park either on LaPorte Avenue or in exposed lot that is attached to the old Porter Hospital garage. I parked there every game I attended this year. Yes, the walk sucks. But they do a good job of keeping that sidewalk clear (not much of a chore this past winter) and it is well lighted. I run with my son if I have to. I usually showed up no more than 15 minutes before tipoff, and it was never too crowded that I didn't get a parking spot.

But yes, it's a long walk and not convenient for anyone who isn't mobile. I liked the not-so-old days of parking in the "old tennis court" lot right behind the west goal post.

I'm really torn on the whole MVC vs. Horizon debate. I like the Horizon (which, when you really think about it, is an upgraded version of the old Mid-Con). I also see the merits of the MVC, namely a possibly more attractive home schedule. But when you think about it, would Valpo have better odds of winning the automatic bid in the Motor City Madness or in St. Louis? Although recent history doesn't present a positive picture, I think Valpo has better odds annually of being a contender/winning the Horizon League Tourney and the one bid.

[VULB#62]

I'm still completely confused as to how and why the University purchased a piece of property (condemned parking garage) without performing basic due diligence.

Is the Parking garage really not in usable shape? I thought they just weren't using it because they never built anything in that area yet.

I forget what they are suppose to build on the Porter County property. It's in the "Master Plan"... Its not have a Master Plan & too know the general lay out of what could be built there but it seems like its used as mostly prop to try and raise $ off of more then anything else. I think someone mention that property was suppose to be used for the student rec center and possibly where the "future" indoor track will be built.

I've never seen it in writing, but it's been widely discussed on campus that the parking garage is structurally unsound (a mysterious surprise after purchase) and that's why it has been closed. I believe that it was open for a time, and even advertised as men's basketball parking.

We've normally talked about the Porter site as the putative Fieldhouse. I think there's a vision that it could (additionally) host a soccer-specific competition field. But, likely both are projects looking for donors.

In the Master Plan, the architect's conceptual drawings (panorama and aerial view) of the "Athletic District" of the campus 30 years from now sought to pull all athletic facilities into close proximity of the ARC. 

>> The softball and tennis complexes were to be joined to the ARC with a paved walk of fame or something like that that started at the parking lot next to Brown Field and extended across McIntyre (supplanting some houses). 
>> Baseball would be brought from East Gate to the area across Union where Kroenke Hall currently is. 
>> The Porter hospital tract contains a Rec Center/Field House on the western-most sector of the property (along Garfield).  The two buildings that still exist there would be taken down to make room. 
>> Next to the Rec Center/Field house running north/south is a soccer stadium.
>> Labein Hall and the temporary building to the north of Brown Field would be razed.
>> Laporte Ave would end at Roosevelt Road
>> The ARC shows an expansion on the north side
>> The remaining footprint is shown with multiple athletic fields (assuming for intramurals).
>> The now unusable parking structure was incorporated as-is (unfortunately).
Note: No new additional parking near all of these venues was evident

[FieldGoodie05]

Regarding parking, I always park either on LaPorte Avenue or in exposed lot that is attached to the old Porter Hospital garage. I parked there every game I attended this year. Yes, the walk sucks. But they do a good job of keeping that sidewalk clear (not much of a chore this past winter) and it is well lighted. I run with my son if I have to. I usually showed up no more than 15 minutes before tipoff, and it was never too crowded that I didn't get a parking spot.

But yes, it's a long walk and not convenient for anyone who isn't mobile. I liked the not-so-old days of parking in the "old tennis court" lot right behind the west goal post.

I'm really torn on the whole MVC vs. Horizon debate. I like the Horizon (which, when you really think about it, is an upgraded version of the old Mid-Con). I also see the merits of the MVC, namely a possibly more attractive home schedule. But when you think about it, would Valpo have better odds of winning the automatic bid in the Motor City Madness or in St. Louis? Although recent history doesn't present a positive picture, I think Valpo has better odds annually of being a contender/winning the Horizon League Tourney and the one bid.

I'm with you there, HL isn't bad to me either.  MVC would need Belmont + Murray State and us to be a slam dunk from my POV.

[wh]

Regarding parking, I always park either on LaPorte Avenue or in exposed lot that is attached to the old Porter Hospital garage. I parked there every game I attended this year. Yes, the walk sucks. But they do a good job of keeping that sidewalk clear (not much of a chore this past winter) and it is well lighted. I run with my son if I have to. I usually showed up no more than 15 minutes before tipoff, and it was never too crowded that I didn't get a parking spot.

But yes, it's a long walk and not convenient for anyone who isn't mobile. I liked the not-so-old days of parking in the "old tennis court" lot right behind the west goal post.

I'm really torn on the whole MVC vs. Horizon debate. I like the Horizon (which, when you really think about it, is an upgraded version of the old Mid-Con). I also see the merits of the MVC, namely a possibly more attractive home schedule. But when you think about it, would Valpo have better odds of winning the automatic bid in the Motor City Madness or in St. Louis? Although recent history doesn't present a positive picture, I think Valpo has better odds annually of being a contender/winning the Horizon League Tourney and the one bid.

I'm with you there, HL isn't bad to me either.  MVC would need Belmont + Murray State and us to be a slam dunk from my POV.

I agree. The tournament change notwithstanding, the HL made good decisions in adding Oakland and N. Kentucky, and I really like all the coaching changes. I even enjoy following the other message boards. There's a lot of serious fans around the league. The HL has definitely been good for Valpo in many ways.

[VULB#62]

Regarding parking, I always park either on LaPorte Avenue or in exposed lot that is attached to the old Porter Hospital garage. I parked there every game I attended this year. Yes, the walk sucks. But they do a good job of keeping that sidewalk clear (not much of a chore this past winter) and it is well lighted. I run with my son if I have to. I usually showed up no more than 15 minutes before tipoff, and it was never too crowded that I didn't get a parking spot.

But yes, it's a long walk and not convenient for anyone who isn't mobile. I liked the not-so-old days of parking in the "old tennis court" lot right behind the west goal post.

I'm really torn on the whole MVC vs. Horizon debate. I like the Horizon (which, when you really think about it, is an upgraded version of the old Mid-Con). I also see the merits of the MVC, namely a possibly more attractive home schedule. But when you think about it, would Valpo have better odds of winning the automatic bid in the Motor City Madness or in St. Louis? Although recent history doesn't present a positive picture, I think Valpo has better odds annually of being a contender/winning the Horizon League Tourney and the one bid.

I'm with you there, HL isn't bad to me either.  MVC would need Belmont + Murray State and us to be a slam dunk from my POV.

Agree with you there.  After all of the previous discussions, I concluded that a single replacement bid to VU would not be in our best interest.  On the other hand, if they expand and go with 3 including us -- slam dunk yes.  After losing two major contributors to the advancement of their brand, the MVC needs to make a splash and regain lost momentum.

[oklahomamick]

For me it's more than just motor city madness but if the conference tourney was in Chicago, that would help my feelings towards the HL and start the change of heart. 

Oh yeah, and I like playing schools with similar enrollment, similar acceptance expectations and similar academic rankings.  I also prefer dormitory campuses over commuter campuses. 

We rank 2nd or 3rd in bball budgets in the HL?  We would rank in the middle of the pack in the mvc.  I like that.  That raises the bar.  We dominated mens bball in the midcon.  Made the jump UP.  Dominated in mens bball in the HL like Butler before.  Very similar winning percentage and number of league titles....?  Well, lets make the jump UP again. 

[FieldGoodie05]

For me it's more than just motor city madness but if the conference tourney was in Chicago, that would help my feelings towards the HL and start the change of heart. 

Oh yeah, and I like playing schools with similar enrollment, similar acceptance expectations and similar academic rankings.  I also prefer dormitory campuses over commuter campuses. 

We rank 2nd or 3rd in bball budgets in the HL?  We would rank in the middle of the pack in the mvc.  I like that.  That raises the bar.  We dominated mens bball in the midcon.  Made the jump UP.  Dominated in mens bball in the HL like Butler before.  Very similar winning percentage and number of league titles....?  Well, lets make the jump UP again.

This ranks up there with looking for apartments near US Cellular Field, Mick!!!  That was a good idea too...right!?!? 😉

[VU2014]

Paul did a good interview with an Iowa radio station yesterday. Talked about Valpo's possibilities and merits for being in the MVC. Worth a listen.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/852569990641397760

[RacerJoeD]

Hey all, Murray State Racer fan here. Just wanted say hi and say that hearing Murray State and you guys at Valpo mentioned as possible additions to the MVC is really exciting for both programs and fan bases.

Did want to take this opportunity to clear some things up. If you guys look at the attendance averages from the last five years, Murray State has averaged around 4500 fans per year. You guys over the same time averaged just over 3000. Neither is bad, and both teams would be assets to the MVC.

Look forward to seeing how it works out. Perhaps we will see each other in St Louis with an NCAA bid on the line.

[valpotx]

Yes, over the 5 years, you are correct.  However, your last 2 seasons were closer to 3,200 or 3,300, which is what most news outlets are reporting.  Your highest attendance was 2011-2012 and 2012-2013, where it was around 5,500 - 6,000.  So it is really good for you guys when you are winning. 

[RacerJoeD]

You're correct. And frankly, between Valpo and Murray State the difference in the numbers of fans that show up doesn't matter. Valpo and Murray St are some of the best mid major programs in the country. If the MVC is serious about being a basketball conference, they'll take both and avoid the UICs and UMKCs of the world.

[wh]

You're correct. And frankly, between Valpo and Murray State the difference in the numbers of fans that show up doesn't matter. Valpo and Murray St are some of the best mid major programs in the country. If the MVC is serious about being a basketball conference, they'll take both and avoid the UICs and UMKCs of the world.

Hey all, Murray State Racer fan here. Just wanted say hi and say that hearing Murray State and you guys at Valpo mentioned as possible additions to the MVC is really exciting for both programs and fan bases.

Did want to take this opportunity to clear some things up. If you guys look at the attendance averages from the last five years, Murray State has averaged around 4500 fans per year. You guys over the same time averaged just over 3000. Neither is bad, and both teams would be assets to the MVC.

Look forward to seeing how it works out. Perhaps we will see each other in St Louis with an NCAA bid on the line.

Welcome to the board, Joe. We have great respect for the Racers. Everyone up here agrees that a move to the MVC would be much more exciting if our 2 programs go together.