Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VULB#62]

And I am hoping they will add Belmont as well. What a kick ass mid major conference that would be.

[VU2014]

And I am hoping they will add Belmont as well. What a kick ass mid major conference that would be.

Part of me wants 12 teams in the MVC because it increases are chances but part of me does not want 12. With 12 teams it would force the MVC into divisions which prevent a "natural" MidMajor Regular Season Conference schedule and also doesn't allow for a "true" conf reg season champ. By have 12 it cause 2 too many games and too short of a OOC schedule. It hurts teams ability to schedule RPI boost out of conference games and also makes signing up for OOC Tournament much more difficult (Vegas Tourney: BYU, Alabama, etc.).

10-11 teams seems to be the magic number for Non-power MidMajor conferences in terms of scheduling. In college basketball you really don't need even number teams like you do in football. A few media folks like Mark Adams said the MVC is likely to go 10 or 12. To be honest I'd be ok with divisions as long as we get an invite. Either way its a win for Valpo if we joined (and for the MVC).

Valpo, Murray St and Belmont would definitely be exciting.

[RacerJoeD]

Belmont is a quality program. They have a Hall of Fame coach, but despite their success they have pretty lackluster fan support, which is surprising in a city the size of Nashville and a brand new arena.

Aside from that, you guys are right. Exciting college basketball with programs who demand success.

[bbtds]

When exactly is the MVC coming to Valpo for their campus visit?

[wh]

What is there to see that they didn't see 4 years ago, other than a new track and systematically eliminating all general parking for the university's flagship sport? Or, ml might show them pictures of the air conditioning unit they plan to install in Hilltop. Maybe put on fancy hard hats and take them up to the roof for a ribbon cutting ceremony for a new rubber membrane roof coating.

Or, they could drive them around an absolutely drop-dead gorgeous campus, that looks better than it ever has with construction activity going on as we speak, talk about the university's incredible academic reputation, etc. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much impact that will have on representatives from the Missouri Valley (ATHLETIC) Conference.

[usc4valpo]

This MVC expansion decision has really been hush hush and the speculation has been all over the map.

[bbtds]

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/the-latest-on-missouri-valley-expansion/

If history is our teacher, the league has formed or is forming profiles of prospective programs. After evaluating a number of criteria, league officials will no doubt conduct campus visits to evaluate facilities and campus culture. To receive an invitation to join the Valley, a prospective program would receive seven positive votes from the nine university presidents.

As Commissioner Doug Elgin told us in March, this has not caught the league unaware, so league officials had some of the preliminary work done prior to the announcement of Wichita State's joining the American Athletic Conference.

The four year old visit may do but it seems some at the MVC may want to see the campus again.

[agibson]

Or, they could drive them around an absolutely drop-dead gorgeous campus, that looks better than it ever has with construction activity going on as we speak, talk about the university's incredible academic reputation, etc. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much impact that will have on representatives from the Missouri Valley (ATHLETIC) Conference.

You mean _walk_ them around campus! Welcome to the 21st century!

(OK - they still can drive them around much of campus, probably enough to get a feel for the place. Or could use the golf carts, etc.)

A pretty time of year to visit campus - it's greened up nicely. Not sure if all the flowers are out yet, but some are.

[wh]

Only 15 hour old. Sounds interesting, but not for $10:

Murray State-to-MVC discussion comes with moving parts

http://www.paducahsun.com/sports/local/041417_PS_MSU-MVC-Column-2578627

[RacerJoeD]

Here you go...(Pardon the formatting)

"The last six days have had both Missouri Valley Conference fans and the Murray State faithful in full frenzy.
Are the Racers truly considering a jump to "The Valley"? Could Murray State, a founder of the Ohio Valley, really be off to greener pastures?

And the best answer I have at this point is: maybe. Or maybe not.

The only news that myself and my fellow media members is that we don't know what is going to happen. And we don't know for several reasons — most of them for good measure.

First, MVC Commissioner Doug Elgin has likely taken a page out of the Big 12's book on "what not to do" when it comes to courting potential conference affiliates, instead keeping things much more discreet, thorough and swift. And that's good. When this all blows over, teams that either did or did not make the cut (Valparaiso, MSU, Belmont, University of Missouri-Kansas City, et al.) will either be packing their bags for St. Louis or returning home by either declining an invitation or who were never invited to the party to begin with, and they will have to make nice with their current conference.

Second, the Missouri Valley already has a blueprint timetable in place from the last time they replaced a major member. When Creighton left for the Big East following the 2012-13 season, the MVC didn't announce the addition of Loyola until a full month had passed, and that was just one team. Many different scenarios — adding one team, adding two teams, adding three teams or just standing pat at nine teams — have all been reportedly discussed within the ranks of Valley officials, and the different amalgams and permutations have to be deeply calculated for both fiscal and feasible standpoints.

And last, the schools constantly ensconced in this centrifuge of rumors have been eerily quiet about their supposed interest or lack thereof, and rightfully so. Guys like MSU Athletic Director Allen Ward and his president, Dr. Bob Davies, have more people to answer to than a few hungry fans interested in the latest gossip. They have budgets to balance, alumni to support and coaching staffs who need to be in the loop if this thing does — or does not — happen. I am certain this is going on with the Crusaders, the Bruins, the Kangaroos and any other program the Missouri Valley deems fit for its conference.
The time for media knowing will come with due process.

What we do already know is this:

— Any moves made will have to be purely based on the trickle-down economics revolving men's basketball. The departure of Wichita State — a program that regularly drew more than 10,000 fans to home games last year — leaves a considerable void in both revenue shares and potential television deals for the future of the conference. The Shockers happen to be one of the great college basketball storylines over the last few seasons, as long-time head coach Gregg Marshall has taken them from obscurity to prominence in relatively quick fashion. Elgin and his staff aren't going to be so quick to replace them, and will give due diligence to replace the money — and interest — they generated.

— According to OVC Bylaws on the Resignation of Membership (Section 4.5.3), "a member institution failing to provide the minimum two years required written notice shall pay the Conference a sum of $1 million in addition to forfeiting both its Conference year-end and OVC Basketball Pool distributions during the final year of OVC membership."

— As part of the NCAA's one-time revenue distribution plan totaling $200 million to Division I schools, Murray State is set to receive $588,597.

— A move to the Missouri Valley would naturally create new costs in travel for any interested school. The average one-way distance from the front door of the CFSB Center to a school in the OVC is 188.7 miles, while in the MVC it jumps to 329.5 miles. The number of road trips for men's and women's basketball also jumps from six in the OVC to nine in the Valley, potentially, though other sports such as baseball and softball fluctuate due to certain MVC schools not having those programs.

— Murray State currently has the second-largest budget in the Ohio Valley ($15,765,259 in total revenue and $15,139,758 in expense during 2014-15), but would be the second-smallest budget in the Valley in 2017-18.

— Since the 2003-04 season, the Racers men's basketball program owns a 10-10 record against Missouri Valley opponents.

— Though in a steady decline since the departure of Creighton, attendance for the Missouri Valley Conference Tournament is nearly ten-fold that of the Ohio Valley's annual bid to the NCAA Tournament. Hosted at the Scottrade Center in St. Louis and aptly dubbed as "Arch Madness," the five-session ordeal serviced just under 47,000 basketball fans this last season. Total attendance for the OVC's four sessions in 2017 was 5,702.

— According to MVC Joint Committee minutes from the June 2, 2016 session, the conference's 2017 Basketball Pool Distribution was expected to reach a record $6.1 million, with the fund projected to exceed $6 million in 2018 and 2019 assuming MVC teams "earn at least two units per year." The MVC received a payout of $5.73 million from the April 2016 NCAA Basketball Pool Distribution, based on the 21 units earned from MVC teams in the previous six NCAA Tournaments.
A definition of a "unit" by the NCAA: "One unit is awarded to each institution participating in each game, except first game played by automatic qualifiers and the championship game. Units are retained by the conference in which they are earned. All units earned by each conference within a six-year rolling period are included in the distribution calculation."
A "unit" is approximately worth $266,183 in 2017, with a total distribution equaling $160.5 million (~600 units) rolling out this month.

— From these same minutes, it was reported that the committee reviewed the 2015-16 findings of "The Valley on ESPN3," which will "continue to serve as a baseline for comparison in future years." The number of total productions from the Valley in Year One — both linear and digital — were 259 for men's programming and 251 for women's programming. The CFSB Center and other Murray State sporting venues, which regularly broadcast efficiently through the OVC Digital Network, are currently prepared for any switch to ESPN3. In comparison, the OVCDN reported more than 800 events were streamed live throughout the 2015-16 athletic season.
So then these are the questions that have precipitously formed in the echo chamber:

— While CBS's intrepid reporter Jon Rothstein first announced the Valley was interested in adding both Valpo and Murray State to the league, to what extent was/is this interest? Can we gauge it percentage-wise? And on the flip side, just how interested are Ward, Davies and the Board of Regents at Murray State? Was this even on the radar of Racer Athletics after an average year in basketball and the spring sports schedule firmly in focus?

— Where does a discussion for Murray State football fit into all of this? The Missouri Valley Football Conference, largely considered one of the best FCS leagues in the country, operates closely within the MVC but is more like a first-cousin. It has a separate commissioner (Patty Viverito since 1982) and several notable members (North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Youngstown State) not currently affiliated with the MVC. And get rid of football? You must be kidding. The Racers, under the youthful tutelage of Mitch Stewart, have three major payouts lined up for the next three seasons in games at Louisville, Kentucky and Georgia. It's not happening.

— Furthermore, where do all of the other sports at Murray State fit, particularly on the women's side? Soccer, tennis, softball, volleyball and golf have all seen considerable improvements that have led to deep postseason runs and OVC titles. What about rifle, perhaps on the brink of a national championship? Where do baseball, women's basketball and track and field fit in a move to the Missouri Valley? Does recruitment increase across the board because of an expanded footprint? Or does someone get left behind for the sake of basketball glory and prestige?

— I mentioned "greener pastures" earlier, and that brings up another major talking point. Is the MVC actually a better place for Murray State overall? Does the city of Murray — with a population under 20,000 and a student body hovering around 11,000 — fit into the mold of MVC schools that include small private programs like Drake and Evansville, as well as mammoth public schools like Loyola (16,437 enrolled in Chicago), Illinois State (20,706 enrolled in Normal) and Missouri State (24,116 enrolled in Springfield)?
It is these things — and many, many more — perhaps keeping the phones busy between Murray and St. Louis."

[NativeCheesehead]

In all seriousness, just the fact the MVC has so far managed to have zero substantive leaks on this process makes me want to join them.

[RacerJoeD]

Agreed.

[valpo64]

Just for the record: Loyola is a private(Catholic) institution.

[RacerJoeD]

Lol noted

[valpo64]

Racers and the Crusaders...there has to be a connection there somewhere...maybe in the MVC?

[wh]

— According to OVC Bylaws on the Resignation of Membership (Section 4.5.3), "a member institution failing to provide the minimum two years required written notice shall pay the Conference a sum of $1 million in addition to forfeiting both its Conference year-end and OVC Basketball Pool distributions during the final year of OVC membership

$1 million for leaving without a 2-year notice is a staggering number, and it applys to both Murray State and Belmont. When Butler left the HL the penalty was $50k. If I recall correctly, the conference raised it to $100k thereafter.

The only way this will work is if the MVC pay the penalties from the financial windfall they will be receiving from Wichita State leaving without notice and leaving their NCAA tournament shares behind. 

[M]

Didn't Butler give up their NCAA tourney shares too?

I would think the MVC would float whoever they invite a canvas sack with a dollar sign on it full of cash to help with the exit fees.

[VULB#62]

Anybody know what/if the HL has a fee?

[wh]

Didn't Butler give up their NCAA tourney shares too?

I would think the MVC would float whoever they invite a canvas sack with a dollar sign on it full of cash to help with the exit fees.

From HL Bi-Laws (2010):

3.2 Membership
3.2.1 Renewal. Upon expiration of the initial three-year membership term, membership shall be automatically renewed thereafter for one(1)-year periods unless the member institution has submitted two years advance written notice of withdrawal to the League of ce and the other member institutions. Such written notice shall be effective only if received on or before July 1 two (2) years preceding the proposed withdrawal date.
  3.2.1.1 Withdrawal Payment. A member institution that elects to terminate League membership without compliance with the notice of withdrawal set forth in Operating Regulation 3.2.1 above shall be obligated to pay liquidated damages to the League of $50,000 before the effective date of withdrawal from the League. Payment of the liquidated damages may be excused only upon a two-thirds approval vote of those remaining members eligible to vote.
3.2.1.2 Forfeiture of Revenue. Any member institution that elects to withdraw its membership from the League shall automatically forfeit its share of revenue from the sources listed in Operating Regulation 8.3   effective upon its withdrawal announcement.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ilch/genrel/auto_pdf/HLHandbook.pdf

As I mentioned above I think the league may have raised the penalty to $100K after Butler left. Either way it's not a big sum for the MVC to cover. If, however, they add Valpo, Murray State, and Belmont next year, they would have to cover conference penalties totaling more than $2 Million. That's a huge chunk of of change for a mid major conference with limited resources.

[VULB#62]

WH, I floated a possible bargaining chip earlier and this seems like a good place to ask again whether this might be a way to mitigate the departure fees (to what degree I don't feel qualified to even estimate). Going back to mid majors having difficulty scheduling other RPI-worthy mids, could the agreement to do a OVC/MVC/HL CHALLENGE (e.g, top 2 or 3 from each conference duke it out in the OOC season) turn this into something where all three leagues get some benefit from the realignment?  Or is this irrational?

[wh]

WH, I floated a possible bargaining chip earlier and this seems like a good place to ask again whether this might be a way to mitigate the departure fees (to what degree I don't feel qualified to even estimate). Going back to mid majors having difficulty scheduling other RPI-worthy mids, could the agreement to do a OVC/MVC/HL CHALLENGE (e.g, top 2 or 3 from each conference duke it out in the OOC season) turn this into something where all three leagues get some benefit from the realignment?  Or is this irrational?

Truthfully, I didn't give your earlier post the consideration I should have. To your point, why does everything always have to be about money to the exclusion of something more important - win-win scheduling arrangements between mid-major conferences?  It's a great thought.

The only possible caveat I see is conference switching seems always to leave hard feelings between the parties. The conferences and programs involved would have to rise above that and work together. Could be easier said than done.

[VULB#62]

And then there are the lawyers (no offense if you are a barrister  . )

No offense either, Paul 

[agibson]

As I mentioned above I think the league may have raised the penalty to $100K after Butler left. Either way it's not a big sum for the MVC to cover. If, however, they add Valpo, Murray State, and Belmont next year, they would have to cover conference penalties totaling more than $2 Million. That's a huge chunk of of change for a mid major conference with limited resources.

The Oakland AD in 2013 confirmed that the Summit League exit fee they were to pay was $250,000 and that the Horizon League entry fee was $882,000. Both of which were to come from "external sources".

It would be shocking if the Horizon League has left theirs as low as even $100,000.

[wh]

It would be shocking if the Horizon League has left theirs as low as even $100,000.

I found the following post from 2013 by some guy named agibson that answers the question:

Just to cover all bases, if Loyola is jumping immediately, I presume they'll be paying a penalty like Butler did (also the teams who left the CAA early to jump to the A-10 last year -- it's all the rage these days)?

I don't know about championships.  It seems a little mean spirited to cut them out of this year's.

But, they're presumably forfeiting their HL NCAA shares. (I wonder if they'll get any of the MVC historical shares?)  And, there's now the $1M Horizon League exit fee, much more than what Butler had to pay.

So, apparently Valpo, Murray State and Belmont are all subject to $1 Million early exit fees.

[wh]

Belmont switching conferences? Don't count on it
Mike Organ | USA TODAY NETWORK - Tennessee
Updated 1 hour ago

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/2017/04/15/belmont-switching-conferences-mvc/100382846/