Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VU2014]

It looks like Murray State has a 'Special Board of Regents Meeting' tomorrow and on their agenda is "Intercollegiate Athletics" which means we could be getting a little news of Murray States interest or hearing the realities of Murray State possibly leaving for the MVC. Maybe we hear a leak from the Murray State side of things in the near future.

https://twitter.com/cdl1018/status/855096535352307712
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/855108095655247872
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/855108261808410624
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/855108350329192454
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/855113609189502976

[oklahomamick]

No Valpo leaks.....of course. 

[bigmosmithfan1]

Document seems to be legit, I just wonder why they are giving to the news media?

Murray is a state institution and is thus subject to open meetings/records laws in Kentucky. Many states require special sessions like this one to be posted publicly at least 24 hours in advance, with agenda items included. Distribution to the news media is an important component of satisfying public disclosure rules.

Valpo has no such requirements, being a private institution.

[valpo84]

Valpo's Board has its next regularly scheduled meetings end of next week if anyone is wondering.

[valpotx]

It would be sad to see Murray State being the only addition.  I will keep my fingers crossed.

[vu84v2]

https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/854773686070640640

I only hope that any forthcoming offer from the MVC contains specific caveats that Valpo must upgrade the ARC to certain minimum standards within a given time frame, including financial penalties for failure to comply. It's the only way to ever know if the current administration is truly committed to elevating the profile of the men's basketball program, beyond accepting another gift laid in its lap (the Drews being gift #1).       

In reality, this is much more likely the result of a negotiation.

MVC's opening position: Valpo needs to commit to building a new basketball stadium to open within five years and do other specific improvements for facilities in other sports. If Valpo fails to meet these requirements and their associated timeframes, they get reduced NCAA tournament shares and other revenue shared within the MVC.

Valpo's opening position: We have great programs, are a strong academic institutions, and have a wonderful fan base. We will continue to make every effort to have a basketball program and other sports programs that will be highly competitive in the MVC.

Both sides will have to concede to reach a deal. Interestingly, I think that you could make a somewhat reasonable argument that it would be more dangerous for the MVC to walk away than Valpo. Valpo is one of the MVC's strongest basketball options along with Murray State and Belmont (UMKC?  really?...travel to the Dakotas?). Valpo should agree to modest improvements, but from a negotiation standpoint Valpo will consider (1) their current situation is not horrible (though we all want it to improve and there are problems in the Horizon League), and (2) given that there is always a high likelihood of further conference realignment, this game may well be played again in 3-5 years.

Thus, my opinion is that it is unlikely that we will see an offer that is just developed by the MVC and then voted on by Valpo. There will be negotiation between both sides that leads to a tentative agreement of terms or one party walking away. Valpo would vote on those terms.

[a3uge]

The MVC needs Valpo more than Valpo needs the MVC. I don't think they're at liberty to be making demands for Valpo to up and spend $20 million. So what, Valpo says no, we don't have $20 million laying around and they go with UMKC instead? How does the MVC win in that situation?

I have a feeling that the MVC sans Wichita State isn't what's holding Valpo back from spending tens of millions on athletic facilities.

[Dave_2010]

The MVC needs Valpo more than Valpo needs the MVC. I don't think they're at liberty to be making demands for Valpo to up and spend $20 million. So what, Valpo says no, we don't have $20 million laying around and they go with UMKC instead? How does the MVC win in that situation?

I have a feeling that the MVC sans Wichita State isn't what's holding Valpo back from spending tens of millions on athletic facilities.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but that we actually believe "the MVC needs Valpo more than Valpo needs the MVC" is probably how we have earned the mantle of the HL's most arrogant/obnoxious fan base.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNIFTW]

Hey guys,

UNI fan if you can't tell by the name. Same UNIFTW as MVCFans. I regiestered a while back but couldn't get my activiation e-mail until today. I don't remember what I was going to address back then, but I'll add a few thoughts from my perspective (and semi-MVC perspective)

1. There is no replacement for WSU. However, Valpo and MUSU is about as it gets - especially since Belmont seems to have no interest. I'd welcome Valpo to the league. There could be an arguement to be made that Valpo and MUSU continuing where they have been, combined with ISUR, UNI and potentially MSU if they ever get a coach that can coach X's and O's have a real shot at multibids. Loyola, as much as almost all MVC fans hated that addition, has been racking up the talent on the roster lately. Much like Missouri State, who might actually have the most talented roster in the conference next year, Porter and Paul Lusk (MOSUs coach) are horrendous in game coaches. So is Muller at Illinois State. All 3 can recruit like crazy but can't coach a lick. Or retain players. Seriously, go look at the players those two have lost the last few years.

2. The key will be getting the bottom of the league to not be as bad as they have been. The key difference in RPIs between 05-11 and now is that the MVC used to have a scheduling mandate for OOC SOS. That means RPI's at the bottom of the league were kept artificially high, which kept the top of the league higher. There were a handful of years the MVC had only 1 or 2 teams worse than 200. Now the bottom of the league has multiple teams 250-300 or worse. If we can get those RPI's up, everyone moves up.

With that said, there are some concerns many of us have about Valpo and Murray State. Maybe they turn out to be nothing, but I think they are worthy of worry.

3. What will Valpo be like post Drew and Alec Peters. I don't need to tell anyone here what Valpo was before Drew family. Yes, that goes back to the late 80s. There is reason to wonder what life A.D. (after Drew) is going to look like, especially with a guy like Peters now gone. It should also be noted that almost 100% of Valpo's national name recognition is off the Drew shot in the 98 tournament. That shot turns 20 this season. That is the only season Valpo has ever won a NCAA tournament game. 82 seasons of basketball, only 1 of them involved an NCAA tournament win (yes, I know it was 2 that year). Not only that - only 2 NCAA appearances since 2004. That's also in a league/leagues that aren't at the level of the MVC. Maybe there isn't a drop. For the MVC's sake I hope there isn't if you get an invite. I think combining UNI and Valpo as names could be a great thing.

4. Facilities. No need for a new facility. However, a face-lift wouldn't hurt? Maybe Google only has bad imagines, but it looks like you have the old school yellow colored lights. Those are dim and when combined with a school wearing brown and yellow it looks...well...dank. You're arena is set up nearly identically to Drake's Knapp Center - just smaller 5k vs 7.1k. The big difference is the lights and the seat backs. It also looks to be a smaller version of the arena MUSU plays in, which holds 8,600. All 3 are strikingly similar. I don't think the Valley would be out of line to ask for renovations. Even Loyola did some pretty significant face-lifting that coincided with their move. I would attach files but they are too large so google it. Or it's on my twitter - which was already posted in this thread.

5. The MVC needs Valpo? False. It would be nice, but the league has been around for 110 years. It's the second oldest conference in the country behind only the B10. If done correctly the MVC can survive, and thrive, at 9. Valpo and MUSU are added benefits.

6. If Murray State is added we have Murray State, Missouri State, Illinois State and Indiana State. For quick learning reference:
MuSU - Murray State
MoSU - Missouri State
ISUr/IlSU - Illinois State
ISUb/InSU - Indiana State
Also, it's UNI not NIU. It's not funny to intentionally flip it - or even accidentally. Also, UNI's basketball coach is JacobsOn not JacobsEn.

Look forward to potentially teaming up with all of you as conference mates. I'll be mostly friendly....mostly.

[ISUBird]

With Alec Peters leaving and how Valparaiso played in the Horizon tournament are you worried that the program may start trending down especially with a new coach?

[ARCInsider]

Not really.  Lottich is a better in-game coach and his recruiting has been solid so far.

[agibson]

2. The key will be getting the bottom of the league to not be as bad as they have been. The key difference in RPIs between 05-11 and now is that the MVC used to have a scheduling mandate for OOC SOS. That means RPI's at the bottom of the league were kept artificially high, which kept the top of the league higher. There were a handful of years the MVC had only 1 or 2 teams worse than 200. Now the bottom of the league has multiple teams 250-300 or worse. If we can get those RPI's up, everyone moves up.

What happened to the scheduling mandate? Some of us in the Horizon (and probably broadly around mid-majordom) had admired it for years.

[UNIFTW]

It was gotten rid of. The official stance is probably something along the lines of "it's impossible to follow with how games are drying up". The reality is the bottom of the league - Drake, Bradley, Evansville (to name a few) got tired of having to schedule that way and led a push to get rid of it. Since then those 3, along with Missouri State, have played historically bad OOCs, which kill RPI before the season ever starts. Evansville and Missouri State have each loaded up on 4 SWAC teams in 1 year - including playing at SWAC programs.


It needs to come back and there needs to be punishment for not following it - like not getting full/any NCAA share

[valpotx]

No worries, whatsoever, on our ability to continue our winning ways.  Recruits see the championship banners hanging in our HS gym, which helps to cement strong players coming to Valpo, despite the gym.  It is not just because of the Drews, but because of the school itself, and our commitment to winning in Men's Basketball.  Coach Lottich has proven that he can recruit the same level of talent, but is also a better in-game coach than Bryce was.  We are something like 10-2 over the last 5 years against MVC teams, and 3-0 versus some very solid Murray State teams.  Our regular season championship teams would have been just as competitive in the MVC, as we were in the HL those years. 

Also, we have more than 2 wins in an NCAA tournament.  We have only been competing at the current D-1 level since 1978 (I believe), and had several wins in the former 'Small College' (now D-2) format of the NCAA tourney:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valparaiso_Crusaders_men's_basketball

[VU2014]

With Alec Peters leaving and how Valparaiso played in the Horizon tournament are you worried that the program may start trending down especially with a new coach?

Nope.

I could see how outsiders may be concerned but Lottich proved he had coaching chops this past season. This will be his first recruiting class. We have a few potentially really talented transfers coming in next season and the 2 true freshman coming in look to be raw talents but still lots of potential.

Lottich has impressed in his first year. As for losing Alec, yes it hurts but cupboard definitely not is bare.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/AKAJeffBidwell/status/855171521295331328
https://www.facebook.com/ImAnOhioGuy/
https://twitter.com/AKAJeffBidwell/status/855172049056268288

[justducky]

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but that we actually believe "the MVC needs Valpo more than Valpo needs the MVC" is probably how we have earned the mantle of the HL's most arrogant/obnoxious fan base.

Yup           

[a3uge]

It was gotten rid of. The official stance is probably something along the lines of "it's impossible to follow with how games are drying up". The reality is the bottom of the league - Drake, Bradley, Evansville (to name a few) got tired of having to schedule that way and led a push to get rid of it. Since then those 3, along with Missouri State, have played historically bad OOCs, which kill RPI before the season ever starts. Evansville and Missouri State have each loaded up on 4 SWAC teams in 1 year - including playing at SWAC programs.


It needs to come back and there needs to be punishment for not following it - like not getting full/any NCAA share

You seem to have an inaccurate view of RPI, or at least of overall conference RPI. The bottom of the league playing a soft schedule is actually a good thing. Remember, RPI is 25% your own winning percentage and 50% your opponents winning percentage. Only 25% is dependent on your opponents opponents winning percentage.

Say Missouri State finishes their ooc schedule 6-6 with an RPI of 220, with a bunch of SWAC and MEAC teams on their schedule.

Drake finishes their ooc schedule 2-10 and has an RPI of 210 because they played Duke, Kansas, and Kentucky.

Which one is better for the conference? Missouri State is the team that's helping the overall RPI of the conference because they have the better win percentage (50% of everyone's RPI calculation)... NOT Drake.

Yes, the top of the league needs to schedule in a way to ensure a top 100 RPI (because arbitrary round numbers matter to selection committee), but the bottom of the league's individual RPIs are rather irrelevant. The perception of a 200 RPI loss is basically the same as a 250 RPI loss. Therefore, a good win loss record for the bottom dwellers is better for the league.

If you take a look at the MAC, they've got this down to a science. Every year their teams have a bad out-of-conference strength of schedule, but their conference RPI is usually strong. The top few teams in the league end up with really good RPI despite never beating anybody decent. The selection committee hasn't caught on to this yet and they've gotten better seeds than a lot of quality mid-majors with better out of conference wins. True, no team is built for an at-large bid in that league, but their top teams typically have great RPIs (didn't really work out this year because everyone beat up on each other).

[a3uge]

With Alec Peters leaving and how Valparaiso played in the Horizon tournament are you worried that the program may start trending down especially with a new coach?

With Wichita State leaving, and Illinois State turning over it's roster, are you worried that the whole conference may start trending down, especially with new teams?

[vu72]

With Alec Peters leaving and how Valparaiso played in the Horizon tournament are you worried that the program may start trending down especially with a new coach?

With Wichita State leaving, and Illinois State turning over it's roster, are you worried that the whole conference may start trending down, especially with new teams?

Interesting quote regarding Alec Peters.  Not the first time someone indicated a belief that Valpo's success was all about Alec and without him we are toast.  For the record, the year BEFORE Alec set foot on the campus, (2012-2013) Valpo finished the year ranked #65 in the Sagarins.  That is better than every team in The Valley that year sans Wichita State and Creighton.

[RacerJoeD]

Here is our newest podcast on Murray's state and the MVC, if anyone is interested.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yiAFlPDgBmM

[Commissioner]

HL had 2 this year with NKU at RPI 85. Only VU in 15-16 at 31.  Us at 56 and GB at 60 in 14-15. GB at 69 and CSU at 91 in 13-14.   2012-13     Can't find it. Did we have any top 100 HL company that year?

Detroit was #71 in 2012-13.

[bbtds]

5. The MVC needs Valpo? False. It would be nice, but the league has been around for 110 years. It's the second oldest conference in the country behind only the B10. If done correctly the MVC can survive, and thrive, at 9. Valpo and MUSU are added benefits.

Bingo! Get it in your heads people. The MVC can find a part equivalent to Valpo and move on. Will Valpo's high reputation live on in the HL? Who knows.

[wh]

5. The MVC needs Valpo? False. It would be nice, but the league has been around for 110 years. It's the second oldest conference in the country behind only the B10. If done correctly the MVC can survive, and thrive, at 9. Valpo and MUSU are added benefits.

Bingo! Get it in your heads people. The MVC can find a part equivalent to Valpo and move on. Will Valpo's high reputation live on in the HL? Who knows.

I don't think anyone ever said or even hinted that it's "Valpo or bust" for the MVC. Even with WSU the MVC was a 1-bid conference this year. That isn't going to change whether they add Valpo or Chicago State. If that's what you mean by "they can find a part equivalent to Valpo and move on," I don't disagree. Universities in the Mid West with mid major bb programs are a dime a dozen. Just pick one, move on and live happily ever after. No big deal.

[ISUBird]

Not really.  Lottich is a better in-game coach and his recruiting has been solid so far.

No worries, whatsoever, on our ability to continue our winning ways.  Recruits see the championship banners hanging in our HS gym, which helps to cement strong players coming to Valpo, despite the gym.  It is not just because of the Drews, but because of the school itself, and our commitment to winning in Men's Basketball.  Coach Lottich has proven that he can recruit the same level of talent, but is also a better in-game coach than Bryce was.  We are something like 10-2 over the last 5 years against MVC teams, and 3-0 versus some very solid Murray State teams.  Our regular season championship teams would have been just as competitive in the MVC, as we were in the HL those years. 

Also, we have more than 2 wins in an NCAA tournament.  We have only been competing at the current D-1 level since 1978 (I believe), and had several wins in the former 'Small College' (now D-2) format of the NCAA tourney:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valparaiso_Crusaders_men's_basketball

Nope.

I could see how outsiders may be concerned but Lottich proved he had coaching chops this past season. This will be his first recruiting class. We have a few potentially really talented transfers coming in next season and the 2 true freshman coming in look to be raw talents but still lots of potential.

Lottich has impressed in his first year. As for losing Alec, yes it hurts but cupboard definitely not is bare.

I do agree that during the regular season Valpo was great, but when Peters got hurt the level of play went down.  That part isn't concerning?  It's not every day that someone comes and averages over 20 points a game.

With Alec Peters leaving and how Valparaiso played in the Horizon tournament are you worried that the program may start trending down especially with a new coach?

With Wichita State leaving, and Illinois State turning over it's roster, are you worried that the whole conference may start trending down, especially with new teams?

Yes.  Loyola is not at the same level of Creighton and whoever is added will not be at the same level of Wichita State.      I'm always at least slightly concerned for my team because even the best recruits are still young and learning and can vary so much from game to game and season to season.  So I'm guessing you are concerned.