Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[wh]

Move in the making

TOPICS:Board Of RegentsMVCOvc

POSTED BY: ASSISTANT SPORTS EDITOR APRIL 22, 2017

Murray State President Bob Davies said athletics is an integral part of the school community and will consider the option to change conferences.

"We have an amazing opportunity to further our investment into collegiate athletics, enrollment, fundraising and alumni development and as an academic institution by pairing ourselves with similar peers," Davies said during the meeting. "As we think of this, we need to see how we can best enhance these opportunities."

http://thenews.org/2017/04/22/move-in-the-making/

If President Heckler were to publicly express this level of support for Valpo's program, I might just go into shock.

[bbtds]

Valpo may have the occasional bad year down the road, but those days are never, ever coming back, and records from that era shouldn't be used to indicate anything other than the complete lack of commitment the former administration had at the time.

Name the Valpo board members that have any kind of record of commitment to the athletic department other than President Heckler. Anything at all that indicates they want to help support athletics other than voting "yes" on someone else's proposal.

EDIT: I just thought of Andy Nunemaker in Milwaukee who has hosted an annual alumni/friends gathering at his home for several years in Milwaukee before/sometimes after the Valpo/Milwaukee basketball game. Good on Andy. That's one.

[M]

Christopher

[wh]

Valpo may have the occasional bad year down the road, but those days are never, ever coming back, and records from that era shouldn't be used to indicate anything other than the complete lack of commitment the former administration had at the time.

Name the Valpo board members that have any kind of record of commitment to the athletic department other than President Heckler. Anything at all that indicates they want to help support athletics other than voting "yes" on someone else's proposal.

EDIT: I just thought of Andy Nunemaker in Milwaukee who has hosted an annual alumni/friends gathering at his home for several years in Milwaukee before/sometimes after the Valpo/Milwaukee basketball game. Good on Andy. That's one.

As CEO it is President Heckler's job to sell men's basketball to his Trustees as a strategic investment to be leveraged, rather than an expense to be managed. Thereafter, the CEO develops a plan to turn vision into reality, and acts on it. This is exactly what Butler's president did several years ago and what Murray State is doing right now.

Valpo needs to get its act together. There is a lot more to long term success than simply doing a good job of managing the status quo.

[bbtds]

Valpo may have the occasional bad year down the road, but those days are never, ever coming back, and records from that era shouldn't be used to indicate anything other than the complete lack of commitment the former administration had at the time.

Name the Valpo board members that have any kind of record of commitment to the athletic department other than President Heckler. Anything at all that indicates they want to help support athletics other than voting "yes" on someone else's proposal.

EDIT: I just thought of Andy Nunemaker in Milwaukee who has hosted an annual alumni/friends gathering at his home for several years in Milwaukee before/sometimes after the Valpo/Milwaukee basketball game. Good on Andy. That's one.

As CEO it is President Heckler's job to sell men's basketball to his Trustees as a strategic investment to be leveraged, rather than an expense to be managed. Thereafter, the CEO develops a plan to turn vision into reality, and acts on it. This is exactly what Butler's president did several years ago and what Murray State is doing right now.

No argument as to Presidential duties. I'm trying to quantify the evidence of board to athletic department support.

[VULB#62]

After visiting the MVCFAN forum these past couple of weeks and seeing the great enthusiasm and involvement that fan base shows, I couldn't help contrasting that with the HL Fan Forum. 

http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net

There's nothing really happening or no recent spirited discussions that I could find.  There was one topic "Which HL teams will the MVC Poach?" that was started on April 10, one I thought would be really charged, but it had only 12 replies since then and there was a lot of talk about IPFW going D-II.  Where's the passion?

Just one more piece of information that could fold into the decision-making process.

[wh]

Valpo may have the occasional bad year down the road, but those days are never, ever coming back, and records from that era shouldn't be used to indicate anything other than the complete lack of commitment the former administration had at the time.

Name the Valpo board members that have any kind of record of commitment to the athletic department other than President Heckler. Anything at all that indicates they want to help support athletics other than voting "yes" on someone else's proposal.

EDIT: I just thought of Andy Nunemaker in Milwaukee who has hosted an annual alumni/friends gathering at his home for several years in Milwaukee before/sometimes after the Valpo/Milwaukee basketball game. Good on Andy. That's one.

As CEO it is President Heckler's job to sell men's basketball to his Trustees as a strategic investment to be leveraged, rather than an expense to be managed. Thereafter, the CEO develops a plan to turn vision into reality, and acts on it. This is exactly what Butler's president did several years ago and what Murray State is doing right now.

No argument as to Presidential duties. I'm trying to quantify the evidence of board to athletic department support.

I took your point to be that someone from the Board needs to step up and put some skin in the game.  I'm saying that in order for that to happen, President Heckler first needs to make the business case to the Board that an upgraded ARC is critical to elevating the profile of VU basketball, and in turn an elevated bb profile is critical to elevating the Valpo brand. Recognizing upgrading the ARC as a strategic investment, rather than  cosmetic fluff, could solicit a much more positive response. Unfortunately, mh's background is all at level where intercollegiate athletics is just a sideline. He only knows what he knows.

[UNIFTW]

.

After visiting the MVCFAN forum these past couple of weeks and seeing the great enthusiasm and involvement that fan base shows, I couldn't help contrasting that with the HL Fan Forum. 

http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net

There's nothing really happening or no recent spirited discussions that I could find.  There was one topic "Which HL teams will the MVC Poach?" that was started on April 10, one I thought would be really charged, but it had only 12 replies since then and there was a lot of talk about IPFW going D-II.  Where's the passion?

Just one more piece of information that could fold into the decision-making process.

I think what you'll be seeing on MVCFans moving forward - especially if it is Valpo and MUSU in - is that we are starting to get to a unified vision for the first time in years. There has always been a public/private (football) split that has caused a rift. I think what we are seeing moving forward, if/when WSU fans finally bugger off, is that fan bases like Creighton and WSU were actually dirving the divide by trying to big time the conference.


There is still left over, pent up, smack talk tendencies driven from always being talked down too by WSU and Creighton. What I'm picking up on is that WSU is like a hang nail, or splinter, getting pulled. When it happens the pain/shock of it hurt. However, after a few seconds - days/weeks in real world time - it starts to feel like the it is for the best. The skin starts to grow back together and heal together as one.


There will always been smack talk on MVCFans, but it seems like the fan bases can finally have a discussion, even if heated, without it getting personal. The presidents/admin of universities in the conference seem to have agreed to what the vision and path for the conference should be. Hopefully that continues moving forward .

[RacerJoeD]

To add some information that I think rolls into this thought, the Ohio Valley Conference has had a plan to increase the profile of all sports equally, which sounds great on paper, but is detrimental to each member of the conference. By doing that, you take resources away from areas where success can be had and where success can have a disproportionate impact. For Murray State, the sport that has had disproportionate success and impact has been basketball. This has been hindered by schools whose focus has been other sports (Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville State in football, Tennessee-Martin in women's basketball, SIU-Edwardsville in Men's soccer as examples). While the success seen in these programs has been great, one must ask if the success seen by those school in those areas is as beneficial as national relevancy in basketball. Murray st fans would say no. I believe that Valpo fans would agree. The focus on men's basketball primarily is what draws Murray's interest. The success of the other sports makes it a no brainer (as we do care about other sports).  The derived benefit of having a conference with a clear vision is part of the reason for the reception a possible move to the MVC has gotten from Murray fans.

[VU2014]

To add some information that I think rolls into this thought, the Ohio Valley Conference has had a plan to increase the profile of all sports equally, which sounds great on paper, but is detrimental to each member of the conference. By doing that, you take resources away from areas where success can be had and where success can have a disproportionate impact. For Murray State, the sport that has had disproportionate success and impact has been basketball. This has been hindered by schools whose focus has been other sports (Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville State in football, Tennessee-Martin in women's basketball, SIU-Edwardsville in Men's soccer as examples). While the success seen in these programs has been great, one must ask if the success seen by those school in those areas is as beneficial as national relevancy in basketball. Murray st fans would say no. I believe that Valpo fans would agree. The focus on men's basketball primarily is what draws Murray's interest. The success of the other sports makes it a no brainer (as we do care about other sports).  The derived benefit of having a conference with a clear vision is part of the reason for the reception a possible move to the MVC has gotten from Murray fans.

I think the consensus for most Valpo fans is that Valpo Men's Basketball should be the priority for the Athletics Department

a) because it is just far and away draws the most fan interest and support (people care about the teams success)

b) its a sport that "subsidizes" every other sport. We don't know the #'s on this but Valpo's Men's Basketball team actually has the ability to create profit to help elevate costs to other Sports at Valpo. When a Horizon League Men's Basketball team does well and wins a unit share in the Tourney the benefit is felt by ALL sports.

c) Men's Basketball is an amazing Marketing Tool for Universities to gain name recognition outside the schools region. (Would anyone (outside their region) really know schools like Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Davidson, even Butler without their Men's Basketball Team's success?) I've been on job interviews outside the Midwest after I graduated and in the interviews they see I went to Valparaiso University and they bring up the Men's Basketball Team. They recognized a Small Private Lutheran University from Northwest Indiana because of the Teams Basketball success. Valpo is very well respect/recognized for its academics within the Midwest, but outside the Midwest sometime smaller schools won't be recognizable on the resume.

d)I've shared this story before about how my friend who went to Butler during the both the NCAA Tourney Title Games run saw the Alumni Donations rise and Admission applications rise at Butler after the those glory years. (Some HS students love going to Universities with successful Football and Basketball teams. Some Students really want to be apart of that and its a recruiting tool for the University).



We clearly support/root for all our other sports teams to do well at Valpo but I don't think its too rude to say the average fan cares a little more about our Men's Basketball Team succeeding as opposed to our Nationally Ranked Women's Bowling Team (which President Heckler loves to tout). Men's Basketball should be the focus for the University and the Athletics for multiple reasons. It's no secret that the Men's Basketball is the bread winning sport at Valpo.

[vu84v2]

While I would selfishly like to see Milwaukee and Valpo go to the MVC, here are some things to consider about UWM going to the MVC.

If I am not mistaken, every MVC team has their stadium on-campus or easily within walking distance. Panther Arena (the old MECCA, but with a fairly nice remodeling) is not within walking distance to UWM.

There are no commuter schools in the MVC (interestingly, you could make a modest argument that Wichita State is a commuter school). As we see with schools like Cleveland State, there is not the identification with the program and the school when students commute.

Milwaukee's game against Valpo last year had great UWM student attendance and energy. However, they fed them as well as bused them to and from the stadium. Even if they were to do that for every game, it is not clear that students would take that many free offers.

UWM basketball is far down the list of what people get excited about in Milwaukee. UWM basketball will always struggle with tough competition (like Loyola). Packers, Wisconsin (basketball and football), Marquette basketball (who surprisingly struggles with attendance when they don't have a big opponent or the game is on a weeknight) and the Bucks provide a lot of options versus going to see and support UWM basketball.

Amended: I should have also said that people in Milwaukee get excited about beer, cheese, beer, pretzel rolls, cheese curds, beer, bratwurst, fish fries and beer. There are many options for all of those very close to where UWM plays.

[UNIFTW]

Bradley is about a 30 minute walk - 5 min by car/bus. I think they run a shuttle for students who want to go. Some theorize that hurts attendance. They do have an on campus facility, but it is small and needs renovation compared to the Civic Center.

The Ford Center is over an hour walk from Evansville's campus. It's about a 10 minute drive. No idea on student shuttle.

UNI is on campus.
DU is on campus
SIU is on campus
MSU is on campus
LUC is on campus
ISUr is on campus
ISUb is on campus

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/cdl1018/status/856231443122585600
https://twitter.com/cdl1018/status/856231661536768001
https://twitter.com/cdl1018/status/856232793138921472

[VULB#62]

I know that it's all about MBB.  I get that.  But I also thought it a good thing at this point, just for general information, to also address the other MVC sports and how the potential candidates we've been discussing might fit into the overall MVC program and what they bring to the table. Note that both MSU and Valpo have football, but that is not a MVC sport -- it is a separate entity, the MVFC.

MURRAY STATE (12)
Men's Sports (4)
Baseball
Basketball
Cross Country
Golf
Women's Sports (8)
Basketball
Golf
Crosscountry
Soccer
Softball
Tennis
Track & Field
Volleyball

UWM (12)
Men's Sports (5)
Baseball
Basketball
Cross Country
Soccer
Track & Field
* Swiming & Diving (I don't believe the MVC sponsors men's S&D, only women at this point)
Women's Sports (7)
Basketball
Cross Country
Soccer
Swiming & Diving
Tennis
Track & Field
Volleyball

Valpo (16)
Men's Sports (7)
Baseball
Basketball
Cross Country
Golf
Soccer
Tennis
Track & Field
* Swiming & Diving (see comment above )
Women's Sports (9)
Basketball
Golf
Cross Country
Soccer
Softball
Swimming & Diving
Tennis
Track & Field
Volleyball

[elephtheria47]

As my cable guy, Larry, says: Git R Done

[valpotx]

For those MVC fans that are worried that our winning ways are done post-Bryce/post-Alec Peters, we just received another former 4 star commitment.  If these guys play to their potential, we have another exciting 3-4 years coming up.  Even if Lottich leaves, we have set in motion a winning program, that would be highly attractive to any coaches that want to work their way to a Power 5 school. 

[VULB#62]

And I don't see Matt leaving inside of 5 years minimum. I say this because he is smart and he knows he has much more to learn before he makes the next move. At Valpo he can refine his craft, gain experience and, when the right job comes up, he will know confidently that he has accumulated all the tools to be an immediate success. He is not full of himself and is smart enough not to listen to the siren songs after just a couple of good seasons.

[vu84v2]

Bradley is about a 30 minute walk - 5 min by car/bus. I think they run a shuttle for students who want to go. Some theorize that hurts attendance. They do have an on campus facility, but it is small and needs renovation compared to the Civic Center.

The Ford Center is over an hour walk from Evansville's campus. It's about a 10 minute drive. No idea on student shuttle.

UNI is on campus.
DU is on campus
SIU is on campus
MSU is on campus
LUC is on campus
ISUr is on campus
ISUb is on campus

Thank you for the clarification. I have only been to Illinois State, Bradley and Loyola. I should have realized that the Peoria Civic Center is downtown and not on or very near campus.

What is ISUb? I believe that the r in ISUr is redbirbs, but cannot figure out what the b in ISUb (presumably for Indiana State) means?

[UNIFTW]

A bit of a head start on MVC abbreviateions for our, hopefully new conference mates.

If Murray State is added, as it appears, the Valley is going to have 2 ISUs and 2 MSUs - would also have 2 panthers is UWM comes along. UNI fans also have Iowa State we play. The FCS world has a couple other ISUs and MSUs. Thus we, as MVC and half of us FCS fans, developed the following system

Illinois State is ISUr, to a much lesser extent IlSU. The R is actually for red. It's a color connotation. It just happens to be a word in their mascot.

Indiana State is ISUb, to a much lesser extent InSU. The B is for blue, their primary school color.

For UNI fans Iowa State is IaSU, ISUc (cardinal) or ISUs ( ). In the FCS world there is also Idaho State which is usually IDSU or ISUo (orange)

Moving forward I'm trying to start the MSU trend to avoid confusion.  When I say MUSU it's Murray State and MOSU is Missouri State. I suppose we could also go MSUB and MSUM for blue and maroon but MUSU and MOSU are more fun.

If you see someone, mostly UNI fans reference sCUm it is Creighton University and all the scum and sleeve associated with them.

Come conference tournament time there is PIG and Drake Night. That's Thursday night in the conference tournament. It's the bottom 4 teams 7-10) playing in for the final 2 spots on Friday's quarterfinals. Thus PIG is Play In Game(s). It is also called Drake Night or the Drake Invitational. This is because Drake has been there something like 15 of the last 16 years or something crazy like that. The only year they missed was 08 when they somehow managed a top 20 ranked team that blew their 5 seed in the tournament.

EDIT

Oh, there is also Evansvilling/Got Evansvilled. This comes from Evansville's tendency to schedule garbage OOC teams and go like 11-1 or 9-3 in the OOC schedule and then finish sub .500 in conference play. Yet along the line they will beat at least 2 of the top 4 in the conference yet never beating other PIG teams. Getting Evansvilled is being the top team and losing to them at the worst possible time, which is always the case.

There is now a push that WSU fans were pushing about getting UNIed. UNI is known for our OOC SOS. He schedules we pull off are a bit legendary at the mid major level. This typically means UNIs OOC record is like 8-4 in a good year but 6-6 or 7-5 is likely. UNI then goes on to finish top 3 in the conference with between 10-13 conference wins. The thought is that UNIs OOC record hurts the conference by finishing that high. UNI hasn't been a PIG team in 15 years. Longest streak in the conference. Second longest was WSU who just got to 7 this year. UNi also hasn't finished below .500 in conference play at that time. UNI hasn't finished in 6th outright in that time either. Only time UNi has been worse than a 3, I believe, has been because of tie breakers.

[78crusader]

I'm in favor of joining the MVC, if invited.  I'm a private school snob and the MVC is a better fit for us academically.

However, there is a trade off.  We made the tournament 2 times in about 10 years in the HL, a weaker league than the MVC.  Beating out UNI and Illinois State is going to be a tall order.  Not to mention that Drake, Bradley, and Evansville aren't going to stay downtrodden forever.  We better be prepared for the possibility that our next Big Dance is a ways off.

Paul

[oklahomamick]

If we want to go dancing more often maybe we should join the OVC instead.....I think playing in the mvc will boost recruiting.  I hope we continue to have succes recruiting internationals as well. 

[VU2014]

I'm in favor of joining the MVC, if invited.  I'm a private school snob and the MVC is a better fit for us academically.

However, there is a trade off.  We made the tournament 2 times in about 10 years in the HL, a weaker league than the MVC.  Beating out UNI and Illinois State is going to be a tall order.  Not to mention that Drake, Bradley, and Evansville aren't going to stay downtrodden forever.  We better be prepared for the possibility that our next Big Dance is a ways off.

Paul

To be honest I'm not worried at all about being able to compete in the MVC. The Valpo teams of the last 7-8 years other then (Alec's Freshman year but team still had fight in it 18-15 (9-7)) would be a legit contender to finish with the Top 3-4-5 seeds every single year in the MVC.

Illinois State:
IL St was really good last year and good under Dan Muller but they were not unbeatable (I'd actually pick Valpo to beat IL St most Muller's teams (not this past seasons though, although we'd certainly have a chance to beat them). IL St just graduated 2 of their 3 best players this year and their projected best player MiKyle McIntosh is transferring (grad transfer, he should stay, imo). They will not be the same team next season, but Dan Muller is a great coach and they should continue to be a strong program. We haven't played in the the last 15 years.

University of Northern Iowa:
UNI is definitely a very good MidMajor program and should be good for the foreseeable future. They had a down year last year. Only time we played UNI in the last 15 years was back in the 04'-05' season (before my time). Looks like they spanked us at the ARC 67-49. http://www.espn.com/ncb/conversation/_/gameId/243652674

Loyola:
Loyola hasn't been great but they have really put together good recruiting classes and they are my "sleeper" team in the MVC. They will surprise people.
Obviously we've played Loyola quite a bit because they were a Conference Rival in the HL. 7-5 (they swept us that first year we were in the HL back in 07-08)

Wichita State
No Wichita State next year.

Indiana State:
-We've beaten Indiana State (convincingly this year). Beat them last year too. We are 5-1 against Indiana State since the (01-02) season.
-Then we played them again back in (04-05) and we played them at their place on the road and the game went to OT 70-68 IN St Win. http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/243440282
-(03-04) We beat IN St 59-53 at home. http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore/_/gameId/233422674
-(02-03) We beat IN St 81-56 at home. http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore/_/gameId/223302674
-(01-02) We beat IN St 71-54 away. http://www.espn.com/ncb/conversation/_/gameId/213250282

Southern Illinois:
Not worried about being able to compete with Southern Illinois either. They lost the Wright State this year. Don't get me wrong they are a good program but this is not the SIU of 10 years ago. They've had some below .500 years. SIU finished 3rd in the MVC this year 17-16 (9-9). Not a great year for the MVC. SIU has a great history and I'm sure they have the potential to get back to being a very good MidMajor team again. We have not played SIU for over 15 years.

Missouri State:
We've played Missouri State 3 times in the last 5 years (1-home and 2-away) and we've beaten them all 3 times.
-(16-17) Valpo beat MSU 84-81 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400918177
-(15-16) Valpo beat MSU 74-45 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400818868
-(12-13) Valpo beat MSU 62-54 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/323502623

Bradley:
Bradley has refused to schedule Valpo for a while. But they've fallen on some hard times, but I think Brian Wardle was a good hire for them. I think they'll be competitive again.

Evansville:
E-Ville is a good program that had a tough year last year. The only time I remember us playing them in my time as a Valpo Fan was Alec's Freshman year (our "reloading" year but had a great freshman recruiting class). Of course they wouldn't schedule a home and home with us. They schedule us the year after the Broekhoff's great class graduated. It was an away game: they won 100-92.
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400507075
-Valpo beat E-ville 75-67 back in (07-08) http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/273452674
-E-ville beat Valpo 69-64 back in (06-07) http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/263390339

Drake:
Not worried about competing with Drake either.
-We played them last 2014-15 (an away game for us) and we beat them 66-46. Wouldn't schedule a Home & Home. http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400586327

Murray State:
-(14-15) Valpo beat Murray St 91-58 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400596330
-(13-14) Valpo beat Murray St 77-74 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400503059
-(12-13) Valpo beat Murray St 66-64 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/323640093

Those were the only games I saw that we played against Valpo in the last 15 years. Murray State is another really strong MidMajor program with history.

I don't want to sound cocky but I really think Valpo can be a very competitive team in the MVC. I also think we'd likely finish in the top half of the MVC next next year and compete competitively with any other school in the conference.

I agree with oklahomamick. Staying in a weaker Conference is not the goal for the program. I loved what one of the Murray State Board Members said when they were addressing potentially leaping to the MVC: "You are who you compete against." The MVC is the better Conference for Valpo not only because its a group of schools that are very similar to Valpo (within the geographic region), but also the ceiling is higher longer term in the MVC then the Horizon League. The HL is going to be on an up-swing but they are few coaching poachings away from mediocre. I absolutely hate Belmont's President's strategy for their athletics program. Let them be "kings" of a weak OVC when (if) Murray State leaves. We should not stop striving to be the best we can be. I'm really optimistic many of the MVC schools will get back to high level they use to be at.

Butler could have almost guaranteed they'd make the Tournament every year if they'd stayed in the Horizon League. I think they made the right move for themselves to make the jump to A10 and then used that league to get themselves in a P6 conference.

[ISUBird]

For those MVC fans that are worried that our winning ways are done post-Bryce/post-Alec Peters, we just received another former 4 star commitment.  If these guys play to their potential, we have another exciting 3-4 years coming up.  Even if Lottich leaves, we have set in motion a winning program, that would be highly attractive to any coaches that want to work their way to a Power 5 school.

Loyola just got a 4 star recruit as well.  What is this name of your guy?

[VU2014]

For those MVC fans that are worried that our winning ways are done post-Bryce/post-Alec Peters, we just received another former 4 star commitment.  If these guys play to their potential, we have another exciting 3-4 years coming up.  Even if Lottich leaves, we have set in motion a winning program, that would be highly attractive to any coaches that want to work their way to a Power 5 school.

Loyola just got a 4 star recruit as well.  What is this name of your guy?

Joe Burton is our 4 star guy. He was a RS Transfer this year and he was transferring from Oklahoma State.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/joe-burton--2

Also Ryan Fazekas just announced he's transferring to Valpo from Providence today. He was ranked a 4 star recruiting coming out of HS by ESPN.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/ryan-fazekas

To be honest I think these scouting ranking are not very accurate and little overrated, but I'm not going to lie I get excited when we land 3 star guys and I think Joe Burton was the first 4 star player we have ever landed. Alec Peters (arguably the greatest player in Valpo's history, definitely on Mt. Rushmore) was an un-ranked player by both Rivals and ESPN. But Scouts gave ranked him a 3 star, but many knew he was a program changing recruit coming in his freshman year, but he definitely surpassed most everyones expectations. Really was a testament to his hard work and the coaching staff developing him. Alec really noticeably got better every single year. 

[FWalum]

Loyola just got a 4 star recruit as well.  What is this name of your guy?

Ryan Fazekas will be a transfer from Providence with 2 years remaining after sitting next year.  ESPN had him ranked #29 at his position and he was the #4 player coming out of Indiana his senior year 2015.