Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[ISUBird]

What about an East/West split?

UWM
Loyola
Valpo
Indiana St
Evansville
Murray St

Bradley
Illinois St
So Illinois
No Iowa
Drake
Missouri St

As an aside, if we're bringing a second HL school with us, I'd prefer Green Bay, Wright State, or even Oakland to UWM. In no way is this a rumor, just my $0.02.

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I like East and West more.

As far as a 12th school I think staying at 11 is okay and waiting how things play out for a few years.

I think, barring something changing this week, the MVC rolls 11 for at least a year.

There's no good way to do divisions.

The MVC takes it's public/private split very seriously. If we go to 12 it will have to be a 6/6 public private split. UWM may have smoke now, but I'm not sure I see it.

I won't be shocked to see 11 until SLU finally figures out the Big East isn't happening and the A10 stars to fracture.

I'd really like to add SLU, but I don't see them coming back to the MVC. 

[VULB#62]

This is like throwing darts at a board but: If the MVC moves to 10 teams, I think Valpo's chances are 40%. If the MVC moves to 11 teams, I think Valpo's chances increase to at least 65%. If the MVC moves to 12 teams, I think Valpo's chances increase to at least 75%.

MVC goes to 10 - looks like <5%. Murray State has the edge there. A public left a public is added. MVC goes to 11 - 98% MVC goes to 12 - 99.999999% I don't work in levels of 0 and 100%, but if 11 or more is the number Valpo is in. If not there will be a massive fan revolt that will make the addition of Loyola look tiny and they'll find UNI and ISUr on the first train out of town

I'm just afraid that MVC stops at 10 with Murray St.

Mick, don't be so gloomie.  When Creighton left the MVC, the confrence still had WSU and UNI as a solid foundation and could kinda afford to take a flyer on the Chicago market -- AKA, Loyola. It didn't quite work out as planned, but during the past few years WSU and UNI have held up their part of the deal and Illinois State has risen to the challenge as well.  But with WSU gone, the dynamics change significantly.  It's uncharted waters for the MVC. No ONE replacement this time can compensate for the loss of WSU and help keep the MVC at the same ranking it has enjoyed. The only solution to make up the significant difference is adding a minimum of 2 and maybe 3 addtions to compensate for the loss of WSU. It might not completely compensate, but it will be far and away much better than if only one school were to be invited.

[VU2014]

Just saw this. Happening Hoops (Valpo Student who runs the Hoops Radio show on WVUR) is reporting that the MVC officials "appear to be" (?) visiting Valpo on Wednesday. He's been a little loose with tweets like "appears" and "might be". Not trying to be critical but I haven't heard it from a reporter yet. I know for sure that we do have a Board Meeting this week but I'm just not clear if the MVC is coming to campus.

I'm not sure if this is something he's heard from a source or if he saw this on twitter from UNIFTW's twitter post.

Can anyone confirm this? I haven't seen Paul or Michael report it yet (Valpo Beat Reporters).

https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/856324727635419137

https://twitter.com/cdl1018/status/856231443122585600
https://twitter.com/cdl1018/status/856231661536768001

https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/854773476825194500
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/854773686070640640
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/854793823318417408
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/854793995138080770
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/854794651672489984

[vu84v2]

Assuming that the MVC is wiling to make a reasonable offer to Valpo to join the MVC (which is pretty likely, unless they decide to go to 10 instead of 11 teams), many here might ask the question "why wouldn't it happen?"

Assume that President MH is in favor of doing this (because it likely goes nowhere if he is not). He builds a case justifying the move to the MVC, which includes a business case and intangible issues supporting the transition. If Valpo's board of directors is doing their job, they will ask some of the following questions:

1. Valparaiso moved to the Horizon League in the 2000s and this move was argued to increase attendance, revenues, attention to the program and university, and those increases were justification for costs associated with moving to the Horizon League. Since the move, two programs have left the Horizon League - one of which was clearly the program bringing the most attention and interest to the Horizon League. Additionally, the conference that Valpo moved from is close to the Horizon League. If Valpo moves to the MVC, how confident are you that the higher profile teams in the MVC, such as Northern Iowa, would not leave given the opportunity? In other words, could Valpo's investment in going to the MVC just leave Valpo in the same place they are in now?

2. If going the the NCAA tournament in basketball (and advancing) is the highest visibility that Valpo can likely attain in any of its athletics programs, isn't the likelihood of going to the NCAA tournament greater in the Horizon League than it is in the MVC? After all, both conference tournaments are not on campus sites, the MVC seems to have stronger teams, and it seems unlikely that the MVC will have many seasons in which it sends more than one team.

3. The move to the MVC requires $XXXX in either new or accelerated capital spending versus the long term strategic plan. You argue that revenues will directly increase (TV revenue, attendance) and indirectly increase (student enrollment due to added enthusiasm), but many of these revenue increases will not be immediate. What projects do you plan to cancel or delay, and how will the cancelled or delayed programs affect revenues - especially student enrollment? For example, the business school is woefully too small with inadequate facilities for its programs. Can the business school attract the expected number of high revenue MBA students if a new building is delayed 5 years? Another example, many dorms are woefully outdated. Does Valpo believe that it can compete for strong high school students when its dorms are substantially poorer than peer schools? Please understand...these are revenues versus costs issues. (I know people don't want to hear the 'facilities' argument, but a responsible board has to ask those types of questions)

4. What major donor(s) will step up to provide major funding for athletic facility improvements?

5. The potential MVC deal requires X, Y and Z for facilities improvements, but says nothing about student recreation services. Are you saying that student recreation services that serve all students are less important than intercollegiate athletics?

6. If we remove games with Butler, attendance has not markedly increased since moving to the Horizon League. There are no programs with the visibility and prestige as high as butler in the MVC - so why do you think that attendance would increase?

7. Why should student-athletes in all of Valpo's other programs incur additional travel time associated with moving to the MVC?

I am in favor of Valpo moving to the MVC - but a board should and will ask these questions and should reject a move if there are not well-developed answers to these questions. The President and the AD need to have answers ready for these questions.

[vu72]

So let's say the Valley folks do visit.  It's been 4 years.  What's new on campus??

Athletics

1. New Locker rooms for several sports including football and basketball
2. New track
3. New football weight room
4.New Softball Scoreboard
5.New Tennis Locker building
Anything else??

Non-Athletic/Academic

1.Welcome Center
2.Beacon Hall
3.Sorority Housing
4.Chapel Addition
5.Chemistry/Biology Building

What are they looking for??  It is a great looking campus, particularly at this time of year.   

[VULB#62]

Assuming that the MVC is wiling to make a reasonable offer to Valpo to join the MVC (which is pretty likely, unless they decide to go to 10 instead of 11 teams), many here might ask the question "why wouldn't it happen?"

Assume that President MH is in favor of doing this (because it likely goes nowhere if he is not). He builds a case justifying the move to the MVC, which includes a business case and intangible issues supporting the transition. If Valpo's board of directors is doing their job, they will ask some of the following questions:

1. Valparaiso moved to the Horizon League in the 2000s and this move was argued to increase attendance, revenues, attention to the program and university, and those increases were justification for costs associated with moving to the Horizon League. Since the move, two programs have left the Horizon League - one of which was clearly the program bringing the most attention and interest to the Horizon League. Additionally, the conference that Valpo moved from is close to the Horizon League. If Valpo moves to the MVC, how confident are you that the higher profile teams in the MVC, such as Northern Iowa, would not leave given the opportunity? In other words, could Valpo's investment in going to the MVC just leave Valpo in the same place they are in now?

2. If going the the NCAA tournament in basketball (and advancing) is the highest visibility that Valpo can likely attain in any of its athletics programs, isn't the likelihood of going to the NCAA tournament greater in the Horizon League than it is in the MVC? After all, both conference tournaments are not on campus sites, the MVC seems to have stronger teams, and it seems unlikely that the MVC will have many seasons in which it sends more than one team.

3. The move to the MVC requires $XXXX in either new or accelerated capital spending versus the long term strategic plan. You argue that revenues will directly increase (TV revenue, attendance) and indirectly increase (student enrollment due to added enthusiasm), but many of these revenue increases will not be immediate. What projects do you plan to cancel or delay, and how will the cancelled or delayed programs affect revenues - especially student enrollment? For example, the business school is woefully too small with inadequate facilities for its programs. Can the business school attract the expected number of high revenue MBA students if a new building is delayed 5 years? Another example, many dorms are woefully outdated. Does Valpo believe that it can compete for strong high school students when its dorms are substantially poorer than peer schools? Please understand...these are revenues versus costs issues. (I know people don't want to hear the 'facilities' argument, but a responsible board has to ask those types of questions)

4. What major donor(s) will step up to provide major funding for athletic facility improvements?

5. The potential MVC deal requires X, Y and Z for facilities improvements, but says nothing about student recreation services. Are you saying that student recreation services that serve all students are less important than intercollegiate athletics?

6. If we remove games with Butler, attendance has not markedly increased since moving to the Horizon League. There are no programs with the visibility and prestige as high as butler in the MVC - so why do you think that attendance would increase?

7. Why should student-athletes in all of Valpo's other programs incur additional travel time associated with moving to the MVC?

I am in favor of Valpo moving to the MVC - but a board should and will ask these questions and should reject a move if there are not well-developed answers to these questions. The President and the AD need to have answers ready for these questions.

   Jeez, 84, you're a hard a$$.  .............But extreamly well articulated. Those are good questions that need to be answered.  Many of the answers might border on softer (i.e., speculative projections) rather than hard dollars and cents figures, however.  It's tough to pin down to the penny what this is gonna produce. 

But here is the overriding, high level response in my mind:  When we moved to the HL, the projections at that time had merit.  No one could have anticipated that both Butler and Loyola would bail in such a short time.  But what if those defections never occurred?  We could be exactly where we said we would be on all fronts -- or maybe not.  Life is full of surprises.  If Valparaiso University were clairvoiant, the current 30 year plan would be a reality already -- the dorms would be built, the College of Business would be expanded and in new facilities, the nursing program will have already moved to a new building overlooking the chapel, the law school would have anticipated the down-turn of a few years ago and put measures into place that assured its continued growth and success, a new Recreation and Athletic complex would be thriving as we speak.   

We do the best we can with the information we have NOW.  We cannot base our decision on what might negatively happen 3 years down the road that is out of our control.  If Valpo does that, they are doomed to remain stagnant or even regress.  It would be similar to the person who refuses to leave his house because somewhere,  sometime he might catch a cold from someone he hasn't met yet.  We control what we can control and do the best we can to achieve the goals we set.  This is a great opportunity that has presented itself to the university.  They don't come along often.  It would be a waste of our God-given cummunal talents not to accept the challenge.

[wh]

So let's say the Valley folks do visit.  It's been 4 years.  What's new on campus??

Athletics

1. New Locker rooms for several sports including football and basketball
2. New track
3. New football weight room
4.New Softball Scoreboard
5.New Tennis Locker building
Anything else??

Non-Athletic/Academic

1.Welcome Center
2.Beacon Hall
3.Sorority Housing
4.Chapel Addition
5.Chemistry/Biology Building

What are they looking for??  It is a great looking campus, particularly at this time of year.   

1. Demolition of Porter Hospital occurred in the summer and fall of 2013, after the search committee would have visited. That is a huge change in terms of being able to cast a vision for future facilities planned for that area. By the way you grads would love seeing all the student activity going on there as I'm writing this. There are either 3 or 4 guys softball practices going on simultaneously at various corners with cones placed out, etc. Must be 50 students out there. Loud music included. Spring football practice going on on Brown. Track practice also happening. Runners circling the track. More loud music. A very happening place.
2. Demolition of the biggest eye are around campus - the old 3-D department store at Lincolnway and Roosevelt. Nice student parking area, curbing, lot signs, etc. A MAJOR improvement to the overall appearance of that area.

[bigmosmithfan1]

Also, the Uptown East was still all under construction at that point, yes?

[VULB#62]

So let's say the Valley folks do visit.  It's been 4 years.  What's new on campus??

Athletics

1. New Locker rooms for several sports including football and basketball
2. New track
3. New football weight room
4.New Softball Scoreboard
5.New Tennis Locker building
Anything else??

Non-Athletic/Academic

1.Welcome Center
2.Beacon Hall
3.Sorority Housing
4.Chapel Addition
5.Chemistry/Biology Building

What are they looking for??  It is a great looking campus, particularly at this time of year.   

Not bad for only 4 years.  And it reflects the spectrum of a vibrant forward thinking university.  I might add that 4 years ago I do not think the 30 year plan had been issued yet.  That might be a good take-away for the evaluators. Also, the basketball practice facility (Hilltop) has received a facelift and AC and a new ARC roof is going in over the summer.

Our talent has improved and is continuing to improve.  Our record has remained consistently good over those 4 years.  Our new coach has demonstrated skill and grit. I think the only thing that "might" become somewhat of an issue is what are we going to do to upgrade the game day experience and TV image inside the ARC?  There's nothing left other than that.  I personally wish that MLB and MH address that during the visit by telling the MVC that within the next 6-18 months the 33 year-old seating will be replaced, new modern lighting will be installed and the sound system will be upgraded.

[swiftmutiny]

Also, the Uptown East was still all under construction at that point, yes?

Nope, that was already done. I was living there at the time.

[vu72]

I forgot about another athletic event:  A $2,000,000 contribution to endow men's basketball recruiting.   

[bigmosmithfan1]

Nope, that was already done. I was living there at the time.

Ah, good catch. That said, the retail/restaurants have definitely filled in since then. Feels like an actual off-campus "college town" district now.

[oklahomamick]

I bet people who are trying to convince the board to vote for the mvc would add that by joining the mvc we will be paired up with Bradley, drake and Evansville, similar liberal arts schools with nice academic rankings such as ours.  Might be a good selling point for stiffs on the board who may night care about basketball.

[VU2014]

Worth a listen.

https://twitter.com/Bison1660/status/856637060077293568

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/856878990916816896

Missouri Valley Conference Officials visiting Campus TODAY (Beautiful Day) to tour campus!

[vuny98]

Multiple reports that MVC is visiting Valpo is a good sign. I think Murray State has an edge up on us, but I like our position vs Omaha and Milwaukee, unless they are purely looking at this from a market standpoint.

Interesting that UWM and Omaha both seemed to pop up very recently vs the other names that had been floating around for a while.

[RacerJoeD]

Any scenario that adds more than one team to the MVC, and doesn't include Murray State and Valparaiso will be a failure. JMO

[VU2014]

Skip to (21:07) in the Podcast. Jon Rothstein is hearing that the MVC is still targeting Valpo and Murray State and from what he is hearing that Valpo is the MORE LIKELY of the 2.

https://soundcloud.com/compass-media/college-hoops-today-with-jon-rothstein-vcus-mike-rhoades

https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/856884148866342912
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/856842057134067716

[UNIFTW]

I (any MVC fan) doesn't get this facination the MVC gets with certain schools. 4 years ago it was UMKC and UIC. They are very bad programs in markets they don't register even as blip on. This time it appears that UN-O is that team. I don't freaking get it.

I suppose the thought is to reclaim part of the Omaha market that was lost with Creighton. UNO doesn't exist in Omaha. It plays in front of 1,500 people a night in a hockey arena 10 minutes from Creighton playing in front of 18,000. UNO isn't in the sports section until page 4. UNO spends more money on hockey than all other sports combined. I hate everything about UNO.

Make it Valpo. Make it Murray State. If they much force a 12th right now I guess UWM is as good as it gets. Even that doesn't make me happy. I'd much rather wait for a 12th to appear and stand out above the rest.

[vuny98]

I (any MVC fan) doesn't get this facination the MVC gets with certain schools. 4 years ago it was UMKC and UIC. They are very bad programs in markets they don't register even as blip on. This time it appears that UN-O is that team. I don't freaking get it. I suppose the thought is to reclaim part of the Omaha market that was lost with Creighton. UNO doesn't exist in Omaha. It plays in front of 1,500 people a night in a hockey arena 10 minutes from Creighton playing in front of 18,000. UNO isn't in the sports section until page 4. UNO spends more money on hockey than all other sports combined. I hate everything about UNO. Make it Valpo. Make it Murray State. If they much force a 12th right now I guess UWM is as good as it gets. Even that doesn't make me happy. I'd much rather wait for a 12th to appear and stand out above the rest.

Agree 100% on Omaha... Not only are they dwarfed by Creighton, but Lincoln is less than an hour away. Not like Omaha is a power market to begin with.

[RacerJoeD]

That is reasonable and I agree. You don't get multiple bids by market demographics or the MAAC would be a five bid league.

[VU2014]

Lots of good stuff in this article. Give the whole thing a click & a read. Harry Schroeder is one of the better Valley insiders.

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/856887850373193728

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/phase-two-in-mvc-expansion/

Phase Two In MVC Expansion

By Harry Schroeder on April 25, 2017

"(St. Louis, MO) – The second phase of the Missouri Valley Conference expansion process is underway. Rumors have been flying on the internet that Valley officials have begun campus visits, and source close to the situation has verified to me that campus visits have begun."

......

"Leading contenders are rumored to be Murray State (see our story on the Racers' chances) and Valparaiso. Other contenders seem to be Nebraska-Omaha, Milwaukee, UMKC and some of the Dakota schools. Belmont a favorite of many fans and commentators, still could be in the mix, but the signals coming out of Nashville don't seem promising."

......

"With the campus visits being conducted, the finalists are being interviewed. The answer could be coming before Mother's Day."

[VULB#62]

I (any MVC fan) doesn't get this facination the MVC gets with certain schools. 4 years ago it was UMKC and UIC. They are very bad programs in markets they don't register even as blip on. This time it appears that UN-O is that team. I don't freaking get it.

I suppose the thought is to reclaim part of the Omaha market that was lost with Creighton. UNO doesn't exist in Omaha. It plays in front of 1,500 people a night in a hockey arena 10 minutes from Creighton playing in front of 18,000. UNO isn't in the sports section until page 4. UNO spends more money on hockey than all other sports combined. I hate everything about UNO.

Make it Valpo. Make it Murray State. If they much force a 12th right now I guess UWM is as good as it gets. Even that doesn't make me happy. I'd much rather wait for a 12th to appear and stand out above the rest.

Last go-around Valpo lost out to Loyola, but was still in the mix.  I suspect we were never in the running that time, but the MVC wanted to get as much information and as clear a cultural match reading as possible with a view to the future.  I also suspect that the anger expressed on our board at the time was a black-and-white-sides-of-the-issue thing for us posters.  I now also think, because of the lack of reaction from MLB and MH, that they were fully briefed on the "real" purpose of the visit and were OK with it.  So........ this may be the same situation:  i.e., UWM and UNO are more exploratory and info gathering  exercises setting the MVC up for the "next" phase of realignment/expansion.

I do concur that the performance sample on UWM is very small and there are many questions yet to be answered during this rather tumultous transition. It could turn out great and teh coming season for them could be supper .....OR.... it could go south fast.  Best to wait for stability to set in.  But, I am hoping that stability ensues, because I want that drive down to MKE once a season    .

RELATED QUESTION:  Would MVC members now be more open to scheduling UWM (and I guess UNO) as an OOC ooponent now that they appear to be on the long range radar?  It would be a great way to guage compatability without making a long term commitment.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/856878990916816896

Important follow up tweet:
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/856892627244941314
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/856881683676753920
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/856884572788862976

[Dave_2010]

I (any MVC fan) doesn't get this facination the MVC gets with certain schools. 4 years ago it was UMKC and UIC. They are very bad programs in markets they don't register even as blip on. This time it appears that UN-O is that team. I don't freaking get it.

I suppose the thought is to reclaim part of the Omaha market that was lost with Creighton. UNO doesn't exist in Omaha. It plays in front of 1,500 people a night in a hockey arena 10 minutes from Creighton playing in front of 18,000. UNO isn't in the sports section until page 4. UNO spends more money on hockey than all other sports combined. I hate everything about UNO.

Make it Valpo. Make it Murray State. If they much force a 12th right now I guess UWM is as good as it gets. Even that doesn't make me happy. I'd much rather wait for a 12th to appear and stand out above the rest.

I think you're likely to have the same problems with Milwaukee as you do with Omaha (though they don't have Hockey). UWM plays miles off its campus in a building that literally sits in the shadow of the home of Milwaukee's real players: Marquette and the Bucks. Throw in the Badgers and UWM is already sitting 4th in the city's basketball landscape. That's before counting all of the Chicago transplants and fans of convenience who live there as well.


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