Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VULB#62]

And I would suggest that the non-revenue sports have shown the ability to respond to the increased challenge of a more competitive conference environment based on how they responded to the HL move.  MSO, WSO, SB, Baseball, VB, MT, MG have all kicked it up a notch to always be in the HL hunt.  T&F seems to be on a slow upswing with the jury is still out on WT and WG. Until MS and WS get a new pool, they will not be competitive as teams, although each might attract an individual or two who might be competitive at a new level. WBB is the only higher profile sport that has not responded well.  In the end, the recruiting appeal of being MVC members might actually help convince some recruits in some of these sports to sign on due to the upgraded conference profile. 

NOTE on MS and WS.  The MVC only sponsors a 7 school MVC women's swimming championship.  The few schools (SIU, MU, EU) in the MVC with men's swimming have those teams competing in the MAC.  So with the MVC not sponsoring MS, the VU adminstration might have to consider whether men's swimming will continue to be offered as a varsity sport. Dropping the men's program will not save too much in expenses, but.......       Those fund could go to bolstering WS and/or helping other sports.

[wh]

I kind of hope UWM gets in (As long as we do) so it hurts LeCrone and the HL......Sorry I said it.

Milwaukee and Valpo leaving would put Green Bay in a world of hurt.  Their closest sister program (and future partner) would be UIC at 210 miles away.  The other 6 remaining HL teams range from 500 - 610 miles away with an average distance of 530 miles. They would go from 3 "short trip" opponents to 1.  Total travel costs and travel time would increase substantially for every sport, which would in turn put more strain their already stingy athletic budget.  I looked at the Summit League as a possible move for them, but average distance to opponent schools goes up another 100 miles. 

[FWalum]

To my friend FWalum, when you say IPFW, do you mean Purdue University-Fort Wayne or  Indiana University-Fort Wayne?

I think the athletic programs will be under the Purdue Fort Wayne moniker. Let's hope they continue to use just Fort Wayne and not PUFW.

[valpo64]

I hope they do not end up being like IU-South Bend or Purdue-Northwest.

[VULB#62]

NOTE on MS and WS.  The MVC only sponsors a 7 school MVC women's swimming championship.  The few schools (SIU, MU, EU) in the MVC with men's swimming have those teams competing in the MAC.  So with the MVC not sponsoring MS, the VU adminstration might have to consider whether men's swimming will continue to be offered as a varsity sport. Dropping the men's program will not save too much in expenses, but.......       Those fund could go to bolstering WS and/or helping other sports.

BTW, the VU men's roster is 20, the women's is 15.  Both teams are coached by the same head coach with a grad assistant.  Truely shoestring.  But it brings in 35 tuition paying student athletes.

[vu72]

I kind of hope UWM gets in (As long as we do) so it hurts LeCrone and the HL......Sorry I said it.

Milwaukee and Valpo leaving would put Green Bay in a world of hurt.  Their closest sister program (and future partner) would be UIC at 210 miles away.  The other 6 remaining HL teams range from 500 - 610 miles away with an average distance of 530 miles. They would go from 3 "short trip" opponents to 1.  Total travel costs and travel time would increase substantially for every sport, which would in turn put more strain their already stingy athletic budget.  I looked at the Summit League as a possible move for them, but average distance to opponent schools goes up another 100 miles. 

This is a bit of a stretch, but if the Horizon were to breakup, where would the schools go?  I could see the Summit going to 12 and taking Oakland, UIC and NKU.  That leaves CSU to go to the OVC to replace Murray and YSU to the MAC because of their football success.  That leaves Green Bay who could join up with some Michigan or Minnesota schools and play D2 or join with a bunch of other Wisconsin publics (GB is probably the smallest of this group) in the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference which, I believe, plays D3. 

[VULB#62]

Why wouldn't GB go to the summit -- actually a lot closer to the Dakota schools than OU, UIC, or NKU?  I would think that NKU or Wright State, BTW, might be in the running for the vacant OVC spot - not CSU.

Back to GB.  Downgrade?  That'll be a killer up here in NE Wisconsin. 

[vu72]

Why wouldn't GB go to the summit -- actually a lot closer to the Dakota schools than OU, UIC, or NKU?  I would think that NKU or Wright State, BTW, might be in the running for the vacant OVC spot - not CSU.

Back to GB.  Downgrade?  That'll be a killer up here in NE Wisconsin. 

I totally forgot about Wright State AND Detroit!  As for GB, I was half kidding although wh had pointed out how they would be a fair amount further away from the remaining schools or the schools in the Summit.  When I looked at colleges in Wisconsin and then noticed all the state schools with larger enrollments than GB (some twice as big) it occurred to me that with their financial difficulties it could be the right time for them, who knows! You are correct about NKU or WSU being a better fit for the OVC.  CSU would have to look east as would Detroit.

[VULB#62]

But your point and WH's beforehand is valid.  The HL schools would be in a world of hurt if the league disintegrates. I hope that it doesn't. 

Would the HL go after Lipscomb in Nashville?  They are in teh Atlantic Sun right now and were 3rd in the MBB standings.  They are within rockthrowing distance of KNU and WSU.

[bigmosmithfan1]

The MAC ain't taking YSU. No way, no how. Don't need another Ohio school, and they ditched the 13-team arrangement in football because it was terrible for scheduling.

[wh]

Initially, I wasn't a huge fan of moving to the MVC. Then, I was assuming that the HL would remain unchanged. Since, I have come to the conclusion that most every other HL program would bail at the first opportunity, including Milwaukee, UIC, Oakland, Wright State, and Detroit. There is little or no loyalty or commitment to the HL. This is survival of the fittest. If the MVC offers we have no choice but to say yes and don't give the future of the HL another thought. The exact same way every other HL program would do to us, given the chance.

[VULB#62]

Another thought re: the HL. Is there any possibility that while this has all been going down over the past 3-4 weeks that the HL Commisioner and HL leadership have come up with some sort of incentive package for Valpo to stay?  I have absolutely no idea what a conference can do, especially the HL in this regard, but in the business world if you have an asset (and a league member like Valpo is one) that you don't want to lose, you sweeten the pie somehow. How? I haven't even the remotest of clues.

[RacerJoeD]

Here is my hypothetical-

Murray St (OVC) goes to MVC
Valpo (HL) goes to MVC

Morehead (OVC) goes to HL
Lipscomb (ASUN) goes to OVC

IUPUI (Summit) goes to HL
IPFW (Summit) goes to HL

UMKC (WAC) goes to Summit
Chicago St (WAC) goes to Summit

OVC goes from 12 teams to 11 (8 FCS football) (footprint shrinks)
HL goes from 10 teams to 12 (Footprint stays the same)
Summit stays at 9 (footprint gets bigger, stays in large markets)
ASUN goes from 8 to 7, but back to 8 with addition of North Alabama.
WAC goes from 8 to 6, threatening existence. Footprint shrinks. Possible merge with Big West. WAC is the "sick man of college sports".

This doesn't take into account the desire of Eastern KY (OVC), Jacksonville St (OVC), Missouri St (MVC) to go to FBS. Once you get into FBS football, all bets are off. Example, West Virginia in the BIG 12.

[crusaderjoe]

Let's get a grip.  The HL is not going to implode if UWM and Valpo leave for the MVC.  Hell, it's easily fixable right off the bat.  You take UMKC from the WAC and Oral Roberts from the Summit and travel partner them.  Baseball is very well protected and you have your stepping stone to Omaha and possibly Denver if you want to expand that far west.  Potentially split east west divisions at 12 for travel in the future. UIC and UWGB become travel partners.  Or you stay in Indiana and explore Fort Wayne for geography and baseball and stay at nine for awhile and see what shakes out. 

[bbtds]

I kind of hope UWM gets in (As long as we do) so it hurts LeCrone and the HL......Sorry I said it.

I can't imagine what is going on in the Horizon League offices this week. These guys have got to be going nuts because they have no control over the scenario.  Do we lose.... one  , two  , or none

With the current position of the HL any loss might be worse than losing Butler. In its current state the HL is still slightly better than the OVC and Summit, but without VU that changes dramatically.  For what reason would a team now want to move to the Horizon other than IUPUI or IPFW for travel cost savings???

So did the rest of the HL care that much about Valpo's chances to make the Big Dance in 15-16 or 16-17? Did anyone other than UIC vote against the tournament moving to Detroit? I accepted going to Detroit but would like St Louis better. The outcomes will come to the schools that screwed Valpo.

[oklahomamick]

Another thought re: the HL. Is there any possibility that while this has all been going down over the past 3-4 weeks that the HL Commisioner and HL leadership have come up with some sort of incentive package for Valpo to stay?  I have absolutely no idea what a conference can do, especially the HL in this regard, but in the business world if you have an asset (and a league member like Valpo is one) that you don't want to lose, you sweeten the pie somehow. How? I haven't even the remotest of clues.

huh...you mean like not changing the HLT to Detroit the year we have our best team since 1998?

[bigmosmithfan1]

huh...you mean like not changing the HLT to Detroit the year we have our best team since 1998?

Forget that it was our best team since then. Next to the Butler Final Four teams, the 2016 VU team was the best *HL* squad in over a decade.

[FieldGoodie05]

Initially, I wasn't a huge fan of moving to the MVC. Then, I was assuming that the HL would remain unchanged. Since, I have come to the conclusion that most every other HL program would bail at the first opportunity, including Milwaukee, UIC, Oakland, Wright State, and Detroit. There is little or no loyalty or commitment to the HL. This is survival of the fittest. If the MVC offers we have no choice but to say yes and don't give the future of the HL another thought. The exact same way every other HL program would do to us, given the chance.

You bring up a good point regarding loyalty.

If OU or GB or NKU left the HL would VU be scrambling for the exit too.  I'd sure hope they have an escape plan because this conference losing any of the current Top 4 programs has problems imo.

I'm starting to come around to a MVC opportunity if only for the perceived stability of its member schools.  This is important for our sports teams to continue to mature.

Commuter Universities can be disinterested at best when funding their sports teams OR garnering solid attendance which even we have had a hard time of late.  Even with over 3,000 students land locked on our "walking" campus we have difficulty.

If not for Kampe, would OU still be ok with D2?

Guess I'd vote for heading to the MVC this late in the game.  Still concerned about the medium fish in a larger pond concept.  But if we don't take strong steps to keep up Coaches momentum then we are doomed to take large strides backward.  Homer set the base, Bryce built nicely and now Lottich is carrying the momentum in Year 1.

Could be a great blessing for our bball team!

[VUOR63]

If the Horizon League ceases to exist, the biggest loser is Little Caesars.

[crusaderjoe]

Initially, I wasn't a huge fan of moving to the MVC. Then, I was assuming that the HL would remain unchanged. Since, I have come to the conclusion that most every other HL program would bail at the first opportunity, including Milwaukee, UIC, Oakland, Wright State, and Detroit. There is little or no loyalty or commitment to the HL. This is survival of the fittest. If the MVC offers we have no choice but to say yes and don't give the future of the HL another thought. The exact same way every other HL program would do to us, given the chance.

Initially, I wasn't a huge fan of moving to the MVC. Then, I was assuming that the HL would remain unchanged. Since, I have come to the conclusion that most every other HL program would bail at the first opportunity, including Milwaukee, UIC, Oakland, Wright State, and Detroit. There is little or no loyalty or commitment to the HL. This is survival of the fittest. If the MVC offers we have no choice but to say yes and don't give the future of the HL another thought. The exact same way every other HL program would do to us, given the chance.

You bring up a good point regarding loyalty.

If OU or GB or NKU left the HL would VU be scrambling for the exit too.  I'd sure hope they have an escape plan because this conference losing any of the current Top 4 programs has problems imo.

I'm starting to come around to a MVC opportunity if only for the perceived stability of its member schools.  This is important for our sports teams to continue to mature.

Commuter Universities can be disinterested at best when funding their sports teams OR garnering solid attendance which even we have had a hard time of late.  Even with over 3,000 students land locked on our "walking" campus we have difficulty.

If not for Kampe, would OU still be ok with D2?

Guess I'd vote for heading to the MVC this late in the game.  Still concerned about the medium fish in a larger pond concept.  But if we don't take strong steps to keep up Coaches momentum then we are doomed to take large strides backward.  Homer set the base, Bryce built nicely and now Lottich is carrying the momentum in Year 1.

Could be a great blessing for our bball team!

If the MVC offers Valpo membership, and it comes time for VU to discuss and consider conference loyalty in the present as part of a larger consideration of its acceptance, I would only hope that VU would also equally discuss and consider what transpired in 1993 in this context when making such a determination, and then make whatever decision is deemed as being acceptable.

[VU2014]

http://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/evansville/2017/04/29/closer-look-mvc-expansion-candidates/100995410/

A closer look at MVC expansion candidates
Daniel Allar , daniel.allar@courierpress.com
April 30, 2017

1. Valparaiso

Pros:
"With two Indiana schools and nearby Loyola (Chicago) already in the league, Valparaiso is a good geographic fit, which cuts down on inconvenience and travel costs. Based on recent history, the Crusaders are the best bet to elevate the profile of the league in men's basketball. For those seeking a true public-private balance, this addition would give the MVC five public schools and five private schools."

Cons:
"The Crusaders had plenty of stability with the Drew family in charge; Homer Drew led them to five consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances from 1996-2000, and his son, Bryce, won four Horizon League regular-season titles from 2012-16. Bryce Drew's former assistant, Matt Lottich, had a solid first season at the helm but is still largely unproven. And now Lottich must maintain the Crusaders' standard without Alec Peters, the 2017 Horizon League Player of the Year and a two-time honorable mention AP All-American."

2. Murray State

3. Nebraska Omaha

4. Milwaukee

[valpo64]

It just confounds me that in some observers eyes, when a team(Valpo in this case) loses its best player then their program will go too h---  in a hand basket in the future and will never return or remain being an outstanding and highly competive program.  Our program has had many outstanding individuals over the years.  Then they leave.  AND WE STILL GET SOME OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUALS TO REPLACE THEM AND MAINTAIN A HIGH LEVEL OF PLAY.  Do they really think that now that AP is gone we will never again put a good team on the floor?

[FieldGoodie05]

It just confounds me that in some observers eyes, when a team(Valpo in this case) loses its best player then their program will go too h---  in a hand basket in the future and will never return or remain being an outstanding and highly competive program.  Our program has had many outstanding individuals over the years.  Then they leave.  AND WE STILL GET SOME OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUALS TO REPLACE THEM AND MAINTAIN A HIGH LEVEL OF PLAY.  Do they really think that now that AP is gone we will never again put a good team on the floor?

It's a valid question from ppl who don't know us from a hill of beans.

If many of us (me included) were asked about other MVC teams, we might also make snap judgements.

I see it as a sign of "there ain't anything else wrong with these Crusaders besides their mascot"!!!

[RacerJoeD]

The answer is Evansville. Successful program who came to the MVC and hasn't lived up to what they looked like prior. Most decisions are made in reaction to the reaction to the last decision.

[wh]

It just confounds me that in some observers eyes, when a team(Valpo in this case) loses its best player then their program will go too h---  in a hand basket in the future and will never return or remain being an outstanding and highly competive program.  Our program has had many outstanding individuals over the years.  Then they leave.  AND WE STILL GET SOME OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUALS TO REPLACE THEM AND MAINTAIN A HIGH LEVEL OF PLAY.  Do they really think that now that AP is gone we will never again put a good team on the floor?

All they know is what they know. There isn't a team in the MVC that has sustained success over time like Valpo's has. They just seem to take turns rising to the top and falling to the bottom. S. IL, Missouri State, Bradley, N. Iowa and Drake all come to mind. Even Wichita State rose from rags to riches and is still vulnerable to reversing course in their new league.  None of their programs have seemed to be able to consistently sustain success over 15-20 years like a Valpo and Butler have, for example. That's why we have a nationally recognized program, and they don't.