Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VU2014]

Initially, I wasn't a huge fan of moving to the MVC. Then, I was assuming that the HL would remain unchanged. Since, I have come to the conclusion that most every other HL program would bail at the first opportunity, including Milwaukee, UIC, Oakland, Wright State, and Detroit. There is little or no loyalty or commitment to the HL. This is survival of the fittest. If the MVC offers we have no choice but to say yes and don't give the future of the HL another thought. The exact same way every other HL program would do to us, given the chance.

Initially, I wasn't a huge fan of moving to the MVC. Then, I was assuming that the HL would remain unchanged. Since, I have come to the conclusion that most every other HL program would bail at the first opportunity, including Milwaukee, UIC, Oakland, Wright State, and Detroit. There is little or no loyalty or commitment to the HL. This is survival of the fittest. If the MVC offers we have no choice but to say yes and don't give the future of the HL another thought. The exact same way every other HL program would do to us, given the chance.

You bring up a good point regarding loyalty.

If OU or GB or NKU left the HL would VU be scrambling for the exit too.  I'd sure hope they have an escape plan because this conference losing any of the current Top 4 programs has problems imo.

I'm starting to come around to a MVC opportunity if only for the perceived stability of its member schools.  This is important for our sports teams to continue to mature.

Commuter Universities can be disinterested at best when funding their sports teams OR garnering solid attendance which even we have had a hard time of late.  Even with over 3,000 students land locked on our "walking" campus we have difficulty.

If not for Kampe, would OU still be ok with D2?

Guess I'd vote for heading to the MVC this late in the game.  Still concerned about the medium fish in a larger pond concept.  But if we don't take strong steps to keep up Coaches momentum then we are doomed to take large strides backward.  Homer set the base, Bryce built nicely and now Lottich is carrying the momentum in Year 1.

Could be a great blessing for our bball team!

If the MVC offers Valpo membership, and it comes time for VU to discuss and consider conference loyalty in the present as part of a larger consideration of its acceptance, I would only hope that VU would also equally discuss and consider what transpired in 1993 in this context when making such a determination, and then make whatever decision is deemed as being acceptable.

I was not around for the old 'mid-con' days when many of the Horizon League school left us high and dry, but I've talked to a few alumni/fans at games about that incident and they still got worked up about what those schools did (old wounds still haven't fully went away).

Maybe its just me but I think there would be a bit of karma involved with moving on to the MVC if we go the invite. Not only that but there are just some schools in the HL like YSU and Cleveland State that sort of feel complacent in Basketball...

The Administration/Board has to do whats best for Valpo and not be worried about the other HL teams that would jump at the opportunity to move to the MVC if they were potentially in Valpo's shoes.

[crusaderjoe]

Initially, I wasn't a huge fan of moving to the MVC. Then, I was assuming that the HL would remain unchanged. Since, I have come to the conclusion that most every other HL program would bail at the first opportunity, including Milwaukee, UIC, Oakland, Wright State, and Detroit. There is little or no loyalty or commitment to the HL. This is survival of the fittest. If the MVC offers we have no choice but to say yes and don't give the future of the HL another thought. The exact same way every other HL program would do to us, given the chance.

Initially, I wasn't a huge fan of moving to the MVC. Then, I was assuming that the HL would remain unchanged. Since, I have come to the conclusion that most every other HL program would bail at the first opportunity, including Milwaukee, UIC, Oakland, Wright State, and Detroit. There is little or no loyalty or commitment to the HL. This is survival of the fittest. If the MVC offers we have no choice but to say yes and don't give the future of the HL another thought. The exact same way every other HL program would do to us, given the chance.

You bring up a good point regarding loyalty.

If OU or GB or NKU left the HL would VU be scrambling for the exit too.  I'd sure hope they have an escape plan because this conference losing any of the current Top 4 programs has problems imo.

I'm starting to come around to a MVC opportunity if only for the perceived stability of its member schools.  This is important for our sports teams to continue to mature.

Commuter Universities can be disinterested at best when funding their sports teams OR garnering solid attendance which even we have had a hard time of late.  Even with over 3,000 students land locked on our "walking" campus we have difficulty.

If not for Kampe, would OU still be ok with D2?

Guess I'd vote for heading to the MVC this late in the game.  Still concerned about the medium fish in a larger pond concept.  But if we don't take strong steps to keep up Coaches momentum then we are doomed to take large strides backward.  Homer set the base, Bryce built nicely and now Lottich is carrying the momentum in Year 1.

Could be a great blessing for our bball team!

If the MVC offers Valpo membership, and it comes time for VU to discuss and consider conference loyalty in the present as part of a larger consideration of its acceptance, I would only hope that VU would also equally discuss and consider what transpired in 1993 in this context when making such a determination, and then make whatever decision is deemed as being acceptable.

I was not around for the old 'mid-con' days when many of the Horizon League school left us high and dry, but I've talked to a few alumni/fans at games about that incident and they still got worked up about what those schools did (old wounds still haven't fully went away).

Maybe its just me but I think there would be a bit of karma involved with moving on to the MVC if we go the invite. Not only that but there are just some schools in the HL like YSU and Cleveland State that sort of feel complacent in Basketball...

The Administration/Board has to do whats best for Valpo and not be worried about the other HL teams that would jump at the opportunity to move to the MVC if they were potentially in Valpo's shoes.

Oh, I'll bet.  I was a student athlete for Valpo right around the time when it was going down, back when Akron and Northern Illinois were conference games.  For me, it's water under the bridge, partly because we reunified with them in the HL, but I believe you when you say that there are some Valpo fans/alumni who are still peeved about that and will never get over it.  I'm sure there are some on this board who post here who feel that way.

[UNIFTW]

It just confounds me that in some observers eyes, when a team(Valpo in this case) loses its best player then their program will go too h---  in a hand basket in the future and will never return or remain being an outstanding and highly competive program.  Our program has had many outstanding individuals over the years.  Then they leave.  AND WE STILL GET SOME OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUALS TO REPLACE THEM AND MAINTAIN A HIGH LEVEL OF PLAY.  Do they really think that now that AP is gone we will never again put a good team on the floor?

All they know is what they know. There isn't a team in the MVC that has sustained success over time like Valpo's has. They just seem to take turns rising to the top and falling to the bottom. S. IL, Missouri State, Bradley, N. Iowa and Drake all come to mind. Even Wichita State rose from rags to riches and is still vulnerable to reversing course in their new league.  None of their programs have seemed to be able to consistently sustain success over 15-20 years like a Valpo and Butler have, for example. That's why we have a nationally recognized program, and they don't.

B, please. UNI has been pretty damn good since 2003 with out first bid as an MVC member. Yeah, last year sucked but that happens when you play a true freshman point guard with a back up that is in a first year JUCO transfer that was brought in to be a spot player. The 2 guard role had a JR miss the year with an injury and had a red-shirt freshman and grad transfer play all of the minutes. The wing guard had an All Conference player but the back up was a true freshman. The 4 spot was a junior and then halfway through the season a redshirt freshman coming off of knee surgery the previous spring comes into the fold. The 1-3 positions had stats that were 98% produced by freshman/1st year in system guys.  UNI will be a 24+ win team again next year. Don't know sustained success my ass. My easy counter to that is Valpo doesn't know how to win a NCAA tournament game.  Look at all of those bids, yet the complete lack of wins over the last 20 years. UNI has 7 bids over that time, multiple top 25 appearances, top 10 appearances, wins in half of our tournament bids. Over that same time Valpo has 2 bids and 0 wins in a conference where they are CLEARLY the "big dog"

Now that my snark is out of the way...

The answer, as pointed out, as to why MVC fans worry has been pointed out. You guys have your brown colored glasses that see a MVC champion almost yearly. That's not going to happen. We see the potential of the next Evansville. No, it's not entirely fair to use that as a comp, but it's what we have. "We don't know what we don't know". The reality is that Evansville was the bees knees in this league, with similar competition prior to joining the MVC. Jim Crews got that UE program really startioing to hum as he was there. 3 NCAA bids, including an NCAA win, in the 6 years leading up to joining the MVC. Got to the MVC and within three years they were at 13 wins. They have 1 NCAA bid in 23 years in the MVC, and that was 1999 - which is actually more recent than Valpo's most recent NCAA win FWIW.  UE is almost always bottom half of the league. I think they've finished better than 9-9 in conference play just 4 or 5 times in 23 years in The Valley.


Again, it's not really entirely fair to hold that against Valpo. Valpo has shown longer success than UE did. We, logically, understand this. However, the only success has been under the Drew family and Drew family recruits. Over half of the NCAA tournament bids from your program came before Y2K was a thing. 2 bids in 17 years. There is reason for concern. Maybe it's overblown, but if you don't see it or understand it, than you aren't being even remotely objective.

[vu72]

Let me ask this. What seeds did UNI have when those wins occurred? I have zero idea. My point is this:: Valpo may have only two wins with all those appearances but, we never had higher than a 13 seed.

[FieldGoodie05]

It just confounds me that in some observers eyes, when a team(Valpo in this case) loses its best player then their program will go too h---  in a hand basket in the future and will never return or remain being an outstanding and highly competive program.  Our program has had many outstanding individuals over the years.  Then they leave.  AND WE STILL GET SOME OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUALS TO REPLACE THEM AND MAINTAIN A HIGH LEVEL OF PLAY.  Do they really think that now that AP is gone we will never again put a good team on the floor?

All they know is what they know. There isn't a team in the MVC that has sustained success over time like Valpo's has. They just seem to take turns rising to the top and falling to the bottom. S. IL, Missouri State, Bradley, N. Iowa and Drake all come to mind. Even Wichita State rose from rags to riches and is still vulnerable to reversing course in their new league.  None of their programs have seemed to be able to consistently sustain success over 15-20 years like a Valpo and Butler have, for example. That's why we have a nationally recognized program, and they don't.

B, please. UNI has been pretty damn good since 2003 with out first bid as an MVC member. Yeah, last year sucked but that happens when you play a true freshman point guard with a back up that is in a first year JUCO transfer that was brought in to be a spot player. The 2 guard role had a JR miss the year with an injury and had a red-shirt freshman and grad transfer play all of the minutes. The wing guard had an All Conference player but the back up was a true freshman. The 4 spot was a junior and then halfway through the season a redshirt freshman coming off of knee surgery the previous spring comes into the fold. The 1-3 positions had stats that were 98% produced by freshman/1st year in system guys.  UNI will be a 24+ win team again next year. Don't know sustained success my ass. My easy counter to that is Valpo doesn't know how to win a NCAA tournament game.  Look at all of those bids, yet the complete lack of wins over the last 20 years. UNI has 7 bids over that time, multiple top 25 appearances, top 10 appearances, wins in half of our tournament bids. Over that same time Valpo has 2 bids and 0 wins in a conference where they are CLEARLY the "big dog"

Now that my snark is out of the way...

The answer, as pointed out, as to why MVC fans worry has been pointed out. You guys have your brown colored glasses that see a MVC champion almost yearly. That's not going to happen. We see the potential of the next Evansville. No, it's not entirely fair to use that as a comp, but it's what we have. "We don't know what we don't know". The reality is that Evansville was the bees knees in this league, with similar competition prior to joining the MVC. Jim Crews got that UE program really startioing to hum as he was there. 3 NCAA bids, including an NCAA win, in the 6 years leading up to joining the MVC. Got to the MVC and within three years they were at 13 wins. They have 1 NCAA bid in 23 years in the MVC, and that was 1999 - which is actually more recent than Valpo's most recent NCAA win FWIW.  UE is almost always bottom half of the league. I think they've finished better than 9-9 in conference play just 4 or 5 times in 23 years in The Valley.


Again, it's not really entirely fair to hold that against Valpo. Valpo has shown longer success than UE did. We, logically, understand this. However, the only success has been under the Drew family and Drew family recruits. Over half of the NCAA tournament bids from your program came before Y2K was a thing. 2 bids in 17 years. There is reason for concern. Maybe it's overblown, but if you don't see it or understand it, than you aren't being even remotely objective.

Point taken, some of us understand that winning only 2 NCAA Tournament games in 20-years does not make a Mid Major powerhouse.

I have NOT looked at any other forums because I only care about VU.  UNI, you are likely seeing the result of my compatriots looking at the utter disrespect on MVC forums and others, it might get my panties in a twist too.

Clearly most of us respect The Valley or else I wouldn't have seen my guys post non-stop about getting into the MVC in season before all this drama with WSU finalized.

I personally get that you guys have been good for a long time as a conference...but recent records show we ball MVC quality and then some. 

I'm starting to come around to joining the MVC (possibly) and your post makes me want to kick these rivalries into high gear!!!!!  Could be a fun 2017/18!

[VU2014]

I posted this last week. Thought I'd share it again. I'm really not worried about being able to compete in the MVC. I've seen projections/predictions that Missouri State is the preseason favorite next season. We've beat the all 3 times we've faced them in the last 5 years including last year at their place.

To be honest I'm not worried at all about being able to compete in the MVC. The Valpo teams of the last 7-8 years other then (Alec's Freshman year but team still had fight in it 18-15 (9-7)) would be a legit contender to finish with the Top 3-4-5 seeds every single year in the MVC.

Illinois State:
IL St was really good last year and good under Dan Muller but they were not unbeatable (I'd actually pick Valpo to beat IL St most Muller's teams (not this past seasons though, although we'd certainly have a chance to beat them). IL St just graduated 2 of their 3 best players this year and their projected best player MiKyle McIntosh is transferring (grad transfer, he should stay, imo). They will not be the same team next season, but Dan Muller is a great coach and they should continue to be a strong program. We haven't played in the the last 15 years.

University of Northern Iowa:
UNI is definitely a very good MidMajor program and should be good for the foreseeable future. They had a down year last year. Only time we played UNI in the last 15 years was back in the 04'-05' season (before my time). Looks like they spanked us at the ARC 67-49. http://www.espn.com/ncb/conversation/_/gameId/243652674

Loyola:
Loyola hasn't been great but they have really put together good recruiting classes and they are my "sleeper" team in the MVC. They will surprise people.
Obviously we've played Loyola quite a bit because they were a Conference Rival in the HL. 7-5 (they swept us that first year we were in the HL back in 07-08)

Wichita State
No Wichita State next year.

Indiana State:
-We've beaten Indiana State (convincingly this year). Beat them last year too. We are 5-1 against Indiana State since the (01-02) season.
-Then we played them again back in (04-05) and we played them at their place on the road and the game went to OT 70-68 IN St Win. http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/243440282
-(03-04) We beat IN St 59-53 at home. http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore/_/gameId/233422674
-(02-03) We beat IN St 81-56 at home. http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore/_/gameId/223302674
-(01-02) We beat IN St 71-54 away. http://www.espn.com/ncb/conversation/_/gameId/213250282

Southern Illinois:
Not worried about being able to compete with Southern Illinois either. They lost the Wright State this year. Don't get me wrong they are a good program but this is not the SIU of 10 years ago. They've had some below .500 years. SIU finished 3rd in the MVC this year 17-16 (9-9). Not a great year for the MVC. SIU has a great history and I'm sure they have the potential to get back to being a very good MidMajor team again. We have not played SIU for over 15 years.

Missouri State:
We've played Missouri State 3 times in the last 5 years (1-home and 2-away) and we've beaten them all 3 times.
-(16-17) Valpo beat MSU 84-81 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400918177
-(15-16) Valpo beat MSU 74-45 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400818868
-(12-13) Valpo beat MSU 62-54 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/323502623

Bradley:
Bradley has refused to schedule Valpo for a while. But they've fallen on some hard times, but I think Brian Wardle was a good hire for them. I think they'll be competitive again.

Evansville:
E-Ville is a solid program that had a tough year last year. The only time I remember us playing them in my time as a Valpo Fan was Alec's Freshman year (our "reloading" year but had a great freshman recruiting class). Of course they wouldn't schedule a home and home with us. They schedule us the year after the Broekhoff's great class graduated. It was an away game: they won 100-92.
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400507075
-Valpo beat E-ville 75-67 back in (07-08) http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/273452674
-E-ville beat Valpo 69-64 back in (06-07) http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/263390339

Drake:
Not worried about competing with Drake either.
-We played them last 2014-15 (an away game for us) and we beat them 66-46. Wouldn't schedule a Home & Home. http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400586327

Murray State:
-(14-15) Valpo beat Murray St 91-58 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400596330
-(13-14) Valpo beat Murray St 77-74 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400503059
-(12-13) Valpo beat Murray St 66-64 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/323640093

Those were the only games I saw that we played against Valpo in the last 15 years. Murray State is another really strong MidMajor program with history.

I don't want to sound cocky but I really think Valpo can be a very competitive team in the MVC. I also think we'd likely finish in the top half of the MVC next next year and compete competitively with any other school in the conference.

[NativeCheesehead]

Well I can fully say the trash talking is already WAY better in the MVC. Man I hope we get in. I could get used to this back and forth for an entire conference season.

[a3uge]

I was waiting for the perpetually offended Butler fan to chime in.

[crusadermoe]

Amen.  That says a lot in itself.  We always hear crickets on the other boards.  A little now and then from Oakland and Wright State.  But you just don't have the natural history and natural rivalries we can find in the MVC.

[M]

Valpo's Day of Giving is coming up at the end of the week. Seems a perfect time to make an announcement!

[usc4valpo]

I have to say UNIFTW is correct here about their success. He is correct, and we sometimes like to drink the brown and gold koolaid, and sometimes we need to be cautious of what we are drinking. UNI has had more success and more sustained success than Valpo . they have an excellent coach and a fairly passionate fan base. If you stay out of the rough parts of Waterloo and stay in Cedar Falls, you will enjoy going to a game there. Remember, recently they made the Sweet 16 by knocking off number one ranked Kansas..

OTOH, I cannot figure out why Drake is consistently bad...

I have to say, UNIFTW is a cool dude. welcome to the board.

[valpotx]

It just confounds me that in some observers eyes, when a team(Valpo in this case) loses its best player then their program will go too h---  in a hand basket in the future and will never return or remain being an outstanding and highly competive program.  Our program has had many outstanding individuals over the years.  Then they leave.  AND WE STILL GET SOME OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUALS TO REPLACE THEM AND MAINTAIN A HIGH LEVEL OF PLAY.  Do they really think that now that AP is gone we will never again put a good team on the floor?

All they know is what they know. There isn't a team in the MVC that has sustained success over time like Valpo's has. They just seem to take turns rising to the top and falling to the bottom. S. IL, Missouri State, Bradley, N. Iowa and Drake all come to mind. Even Wichita State rose from rags to riches and is still vulnerable to reversing course in their new league.  None of their programs have seemed to be able to consistently sustain success over 15-20 years like a Valpo and Butler have, for example. That's why we have a nationally recognized program, and they don't.

B, please. UNI has been pretty damn good since 2003 with out first bid as an MVC member. Yeah, last year sucked but that happens when you play a true freshman point guard with a back up that is in a first year JUCO transfer that was brought in to be a spot player. The 2 guard role had a JR miss the year with an injury and had a red-shirt freshman and grad transfer play all of the minutes. The wing guard had an All Conference player but the back up was a true freshman. The 4 spot was a junior and then halfway through the season a redshirt freshman coming off of knee surgery the previous spring comes into the fold. The 1-3 positions had stats that were 98% produced by freshman/1st year in system guys.  UNI will be a 24+ win team again next year. Don't know sustained success my ass. My easy counter to that is Valpo doesn't know how to win a NCAA tournament game.  Look at all of those bids, yet the complete lack of wins over the last 20 years. UNI has 7 bids over that time, multiple top 25 appearances, top 10 appearances, wins in half of our tournament bids. Over that same time Valpo has 2 bids and 0 wins in a conference where they are CLEARLY the "big dog"

Now that my snark is out of the way...

The answer, as pointed out, as to why MVC fans worry has been pointed out. You guys have your brown colored glasses that see a MVC champion almost yearly. That's not going to happen. We see the potential of the next Evansville. No, it's not entirely fair to use that as a comp, but it's what we have. "We don't know what we don't know". The reality is that Evansville was the bees knees in this league, with similar competition prior to joining the MVC. Jim Crews got that UE program really startioing to hum as he was there. 3 NCAA bids, including an NCAA win, in the 6 years leading up to joining the MVC. Got to the MVC and within three years they were at 13 wins. They have 1 NCAA bid in 23 years in the MVC, and that was 1999 - which is actually more recent than Valpo's most recent NCAA win FWIW.  UE is almost always bottom half of the league. I think they've finished better than 9-9 in conference play just 4 or 5 times in 23 years in The Valley.


Again, it's not really entirely fair to hold that against Valpo. Valpo has shown longer success than UE did. We, logically, understand this. However, the only success has been under the Drew family and Drew family recruits. Over half of the NCAA tournament bids from your program came before Y2K was a thing. 2 bids in 17 years. There is reason for concern. Maybe it's overblown, but if you don't see it or understand it, than you aren't being even remotely objective.

You are right about UNI's success.  They are really the only MVC team left that can make that claim against us.  However, we have 5 bids in the last 17 years, not just 2 (2000, 2002, 2004, 2013, and 2015).  Also, I seem to remember the HL schools saying the same exact thing to us, that we won't win on a consistent basis.  All we have done is win 5 of the last 6 regular season titles, and finishing 4th or better in every year but 1, in our 10 seasons.  The success is not the Drew's alone, but every player that came to Valpo.  The Drew's were great recruiters, but very average in-game coaches.  Lottich has shown that he can recruit at their level already, and is a better in-game coach.  I don't feel bad saying that we will be top 4 in the MVC on a yearly basis.

[SanityLost17]

Because i am bored. 

Put yourself in the shoes of the mvc coaches.  What they really want is a team that is going to win a lot of non-con games and then become fodder during conference season so the existing schools can go to the tourney.  They may not want a top tier team like we all think.  Perhaps they want schools with potential but not too much potential.

[VU2014]

If you get a chance, give this podcast a listen. Talks about MVC expansion with insiders and a Terre Haute beat reporter.

The host of the Podcast seems hesitant on Valpo. Again he seems to point to Evansville... what a terrible comparison. Doesn't seem to like Omaha (nor do I). Seems hesitant on UWM. He seems to like he wants to stay at 10.

https://twitter.com/KirkWessler/status/859232684714885120

http://podcasts.pjstar.com/2017/sportswriters-63-valley-reconstruction/t=7:34.541

"First Creighton left the Missouri Valley Conference. Then Wichita State. Now, the league is trying to figure out its next move. Move back to 10 teams? Expand to 11 or 12? And which schools would be the best basketball fit for what's left of the Valley? Kirk Wessler discusses the issues with Harry Schroeder of valleyhoops.net and Todd Golden of the Terre Haute Tribune-Star."

[UNIFTW]

I have to say UNIFTW is correct here about their success. He is correct, and we sometimes like to drink the brown and gold koolaid, and sometimes we need to be cautious of what we are drinking. UNI has had more success and more sustained success than Valpo . they have an excellent coach and a fairly passionate fan base. If you stay out of the rough parts of Waterloo and stay in Cedar Falls, you will enjoy going to a game there. Remember, recently they made the Sweet 16 by knocking off number one ranked Kansas..

OTOH, I cannot figure out why Drake is consistently bad...

I have to say, UNIFTW is a cool dude. welcome to the board.

Drake is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. Everything about their program/university should scream "We have every chance to be equal to Creighton". Instead, it screams "We don't exist on our own campus 99% of the time". They found lightning in a bottle in 2008, but outside of that they've been horrendous since the 1960s. They are just a completely incompetent athletic department. I would just suggest going and finding a disucssion on MVCFans about it. There have been many over the last few years. I'm not going to hash it out here.


Bradley has also been bad, but they aren't for a lack of trying. They just haven't "hit" on a coach. They pay well. The fund well. They have a fan base that WANTS to be good (Drake doesn't have a fan base, but the 2 dozen or so they have want to be good but tough to pressure the AD when you have 24 fans). They've just struck out with coaches. I see people bash on Wardle (mostly UWM people) but he seems to have things headed the right way down there. His first year he had like 12 freshman and 1 senior on the roster. He completely gutted the program and started with trying to pour a new foundation. Even this past year he had 12 freshman and sophomores. No seniors and 2 juniors. I'm pretty sure only one of the juniors saw significant minutes. He took over a program that had a 7 win season and a 9 win season in the last 4 before he got there - 9 the year right before. His first year was 5-24 but, as I said, it was all freshman. This year he got to 13-20 and actually tied for 6th in conference but lost the tie breaker so they ended up in the PIG again. They won more conference games last year than the 2 previous combined. Bradley is a "sleeping giant" just waiting to get woke back up. If there is one MVC program that has the potential to be a high level A10/Big East type team, it's them.


As for UNI's seeds with wins - 10, 9, 5.


I like friendly smack. Yes, I get snarky but it's mostly fun. I also don't get into "smack fights" without having a large sample of numbers behind me. I want Valpo and Murray to come in and be top level teams. We can't afford to add Evansville or Loyola again. We need to add UNI and last years Illinois State. The comps to "When UNI was added people hated it and look what happened". Yeah, true. It also took UNI 11 years to not be complete and utter dog crap. There were times in the late 90s we were playing in our football dome (which can/has held 22k+ for basketball) and there would be less than 800 people at the game - I know people that went and would spend the game counting. Thankfully we got McDermott to come back to his Alma mater in 2001, and bring Ben Jacobson along. Starting in 2003 we became what we are. We joined the MVC in 1992. The conference climate has changed since then. The NCAA landscape has changed since then. We don't have the ability to wait a decade for an addition to pay off. It's part of what pissed people off about Loyola. Maybe they'll be great in 2022. We shouldn't have been planning for 2022 in 2013. Maybe UNO is going to be great in 2027. We don't have the luxery of waiting for that right now. We need name programs that can/do win.

[UNIFTW]

No, we don't want a team that wins a ton in OOC and then falters in conference play. That's Evansville. I've discussed it here, but Evansville is mostly universally hated for that.  The term "Evansvilling" and "getting Evansvilled" is a thing in the MVC world, and it's not a good thing.


We don't want that. The coaches don't want that. The ADs don't want that. This league cant' continue to pay coaches 500k+ (1 million per year in UNI's case) if we are a one bid league permanently. That math doesn't work out.

[usc4valpo]

what's sad is that Evansville used to be good - they used to kick Valpo's butt on a regular basis. And their fan base was very loyal, at least back in the 80's and early 90's.

Living in the Des Moines area, I would like to see Drake do better - I like the campus and neighborhood. The Drake Diner also is a excellent place to get that cake shake.

[vu72]

what's sad is that Evansville used to be good - they used to kick Valpo's butt on a regular basis. And their fan base was very loyal, at least back in the 80's and early 90's.

Living in the Des Moines area, I would like to see Drake do better - I like the campus and neighborhood. The Drake Diner also is a excellent place to get that cake shake.

Sure did, when Jerry Sloan played for them!!

[VU2014]

Wow just within the last half hour since the Rumor of Valpo being the possible only 10th team its has been mixed with either really positive or really negative response from MVC fans on Twitter (not much in between).

Saw someone say, "this feels like Loyola". A bit of an idiotic response on many different level... We are a much better Basketball program then Loyola was coming into MVC and the Loyola invite was made because of Market and not because of basketball reasons.

Valpo will not be able to replace Wichita State and nor do expect to fill that void. We will be a very strong basketball addition but the sooner the MVC fans realize we will not be able to replace the better it will be for all parties.

[usc4valpo]

I am thinking Brad Leaf and Marty Simmons.

Trivia - who was the Valpo player who transferred from Evansville?

[E-Villan]

The UNI's fan vendetta against all things Evansville is certainly over the top, and appears more personal than anything.


I am not going to defend everything because there is quite a bit of validity to it, but it can be stated without being a prick about it.


I come to this board to see how the thoughts are of Valpo fans joining the Valley, not subject you guys to a UNI-UE pissing match.


For the last decade or so, UNI has had a solid program, and better than UE. No question. The thing about basketball history though, you can draw a line anywhere. Since I am an old guy, I will go back much farther..from the 50's through 2000, UE was clearly the better program that entire time. Both schools were in the old college division, where UE won (5) national titles, and UNI I believe won..zero. Despite having the entire program wiped out by a tragic plane crash in '77, UE was still managed to be the stronger program through the 80's and 90's. Not to mention much stronger support, with many seasons averaging well over 10K. Something I don't think UNI has ever done.


Yes, our last decade under Simmons has been mediocre, and yours under Jacobson has been very solid. Despite the suckitude, we have still had a better decade than Bradley, Drake, Missouri State, Loyola, SIU. I don't hang my hat on that, and it is certainly not anything to be proud of, but it does make me question why you always throw us to the bottom first. You act like we are all happy and content, which is BS. We have lost over half of our fans since Marty has been here.


I will agree with you on the scheduling, although that should really be called Simmon-sing. There is no question he schedules to save his rear, which is BS, and despised by most of our fans. We know we paid dearly for it last year. For the Valpo fans, that phrase was started by Wichita fans after we swept the regular season from them the year they ended up in the final four. They also created a brand for flopping and dropping which is tied to another school in our league, but I won't bring that one up..........


Wichita was able to distance itself from the rest of the league. I just don't see anyone else close to that point. Our basketball budget is identical to UNI's, both near the top of the league. Our facilities have all been upgraded to among the best in the league, and we play in the nicest arena in the league...not to mention our fanbase and market is larger.  You smoke us in the coaching department, and as long as Simmons and Jacobson are in place, you will continue to do so. I hope Jacobson retires there, and any advise you have in helping us rid ourselves of Marty would certainly be welcome, instead of snarky attacks.

[78crusader]

Some mention on this board that Evansville used to be pretty good.  Probably thinking of the Jim Crews teams of the 1980s-1990s era. 

I just wanted to point out that nobody -- and I mean nobody -- had the kind of success that Evansville had for about 20 years back when there were two divisions of college basketball -- university and college divisions. 

Here is just a sample of the win-loss records Evansville compiled from the late 50s to the early 70s: 20-6, 20-8, 23-4, 21-6, 25-4, 21-6, 29-0, and 26-3.  Not to mention three (or four, I can't recall) national championships.

My dad and I went to multiple VU-Evansville games.  We hardly ever won, although we did knock off the Aces 83-73 in 1966 in the greatest sporting event I have ever seen (Evansville came in with a 25-game winning streak).

Just wanted to give Evansville the recognition they deserve.

Paul

[wh]

Two things our new visitors all seem to have in common is passion for their programs and a desire to elevate the profile of their league. They also come armed with facts and stats. In other words, they sound a lot like us. I could get used to this. 

[VULB#62]

Some mention on this board that Evansville used to be pretty good.  Probably thinking of the Jim Crews teams of the 1980s-1990s era. 

I just wanted to point out that nobody -- and I mean nobody -- had the kind of success that Evansville had for about 20 years back when there were two divisions of college basketball -- university and college divisions. 

Here is just a sample of the win-loss records Evansville compiled from the late 50s to the early 70s: 20-6, 20-8, 23-4, 21-6, 25-4, 21-6, 29-0, and 26-3.  Not to mention three (or four, I can't recall) national championships.

My dad and I went to multiple VU-Evansville games.  We hardly ever won, although we did knock off the Aces 83-73 in 1966 in the greatest sporting event I have ever seen (Evansville came in with a 25-game winning streak).

Just wanted to give Evansville the recognition they deserve.

Paul

I was at that game      -- E'ville was incredible that year.  Jerry Sloan and Larry Humes (now in the Indiana Basketball HOF) on the same floor at the same time!!  Those were ICC conference games.  I can still visualize Tom Smith dribbling around and through both those two guys at the close of the game with us in the lead.

LARRY HUMES
Indiana's Mr. Basketball in 1962 at Madison ... led Madison to a four-year record of 97 wins and 5 losses ... state finalists in 1962 ... team captain and MVP of Indiana-Kentucky all-star game that year ... two-time all-American at Evansville College ... led the Purple Aces to national championships those years, '64 and '65 ... three-time MVP of Indiana Collegiate Conference ... three-time NCAA all-tourney selection ... Evansville's all-time leading scorer.

Indiana State and Ball State were also in the ICC along with Butler, DePauw and St. Joe's.

BTW, we then went down there in 67 and beat them 71-61.  Dick Jones, Vern Curtis and Ken Rakow led that team.

[usc4valpo]

The Evansville alums and people I have worked with and known are generally very friendly and have a real passion for basketball. Same with UNI. Drake I can't figure because I just don't know many Drake hoop fans - their have a love of pharmacy but not basketball. Where I live, there are many Iowa Hawkeye fans (most have no affiliation with the school, BTW) who tend to be very arrogant, annoying and out of touch of how mediocre their football team is. The Iowa alums are cool, it's the non alumni fans that are a different breed.

I really hope we get to go to the MVC - I like these guys.