Valpo to be visited by MVC this week, thoughts?

[VULB#62]

  Not good.  Should be at least 2 or even 3.   

In the meantime we wait 🕑  ..... and wait  🕔  ......   and wait    🕖 .

[VU2014]

  Not good.  Should be at least 2 or even 3.   

In the meantime we wait 🕑  ..... and wait  🕔  ......   and wait    🕖 .

Maybe they add Valpo for next season and phase in Murray State (football) over the next few years?

Valpo & Murray State seem like good adds, but there is no "obvious" 3rd team right now.

I really think Omaha would be a complete reach for the MVC. They have only a 1.2M budget and they are in debt on their new arena. Draw less then 1,900 people to games. Never won the summit even and only been a full D1 team for 2-3 years I believe. They have market going for them but they are deep in the shadow of Creighton. They just don't seem ready for that big of a leap.

My gut says Omaha will be in the Horizon League at some point in the next 1-2 years.

[NativeCheesehead]

I'm sure if only 1 is added, the sky will fall, at least according to us fans. But i'm willing to give the MVC some time on this. I would much rather they take their time and make a push for Belmont, or give UWM a chance to prove they're indeed in a turnaround, or give Murray State a chance to work out their football, rather than just plowing forward. You can dangle a bid for a couple of years and see who most wants and earns it.

That's assuming if there is only 1, we're it. If not, screw em all.   

[agibson]

went on a UNI radio station to talk about UNI expansion talk and he almost talks about Valpo going to the MVC as a fait accompli. They talk for 20-30 minutes and its very heavy talking about Valpo that whole time. He talks about what he thinks of the ARC and about

What I've listened to so far is interesting.

The host cites Mark Adams for his certainty that it's Valpo and only Valpo. The guest doesn't seem to separately evaluate the evidence. But definitely weighs in on what he thinks of the choice (a pretty good choice; probably the best the Valley could manage, a big step up for Valpo). His impressions of the ARC are interesting. He suggests it seats 3K and is regularly full. And that basketball facilities in particular will need attention.

Interesting stuff.

[VULB#62]

Former UNI Athletic Director and a current Division I college basketball official Rick Hartzell (refs a lot of Valpo Games at the ARC), went on a UNI radio station to talk about MVC expansion talk and he almost talks about Valpo going to the MVC as a fait accompli. They talk for 20-30 minutes and its very heavy talking about Valpo that whole time. He talks about what he thinks of the ARC and about how he see Valpo as a fit from his point of view from a former MVC athletics director point of view.

Worth a listen, imo. (start at 21:50).
http://onpressrow.com/test/2017/05/04/on-press-row-5417-presented-by-whiskey-road-tavern-grill/

The interview was based on Adams' speculation that it was only Valpo as the #1 pick, so that's why Hartzell talked so much about us.  He also thought while 10 was a good number in the past, that the MVC should probably think a little out of the box and go with more than just 1.  He did mention that the ARC held about 3,000 and was filled many of the games he reffed but would need to be upgraded. 3000?  😖

EDIT:  I guess we kinda posted simultaneously.  We definitely heard the same things.

[vu72]

Former UNI Athletic Director and a current Division I college basketball official Rick Hartzell (refs a lot of Valpo Games at the ARC), went on a UNI radio station to talk about MVC expansion talk and he almost talks about Valpo going to the MVC as a fait accompli. They talk for 20-30 minutes and its very heavy talking about Valpo that whole time. He talks about what he thinks of the ARC and about how he see Valpo as a fit from his point of view from a former MVC athletics director point of view.

Worth a listen, imo. (start at 21:50).
http://onpressrow.com/test/2017/05/04/on-press-row-5417-presented-by-whiskey-road-tavern-grill

This guy Rick Hartzell didn't impress me very much. He says he has refereed many games at Valpo but can't pronounce the name even when the commentator is saying it correctly.  Next he thinks our floor is hard when it has been replaced in the last couple of years.  Thenhe thinks our "gym" seats 3000 and then that Belmont has a better basketball program than Valpo.  Finally he wonders about Valpo competing when our recent history in several sports says otherwise.

Please, let's get this done with. 

[valpo64]

With all the games Hartzell said he has officiated at VU, one would think that he should know the ARC's capacity was around 5,000+  and that the school name was not ValpaRISEo. He liked to think that he knew everything about the situation but what I wonder is why is he no longer the AD at No. Iowa?

[UNIFTW]

Rick is also a long time college basketball official. He's seen basketball in all types of facilities.

He's very hit or miss with the UNI fan base.

Many think he did great things, but he sold our soul for infalted attendance numbres. Almost all of our money issues the last 8 years are because of him

[VU2014]

Former UNI Athletic Director and a current Division I college basketball official Rick Hartzell (refs a lot of Valpo Games at the ARC), went on a UNI radio station to talk about MVC expansion talk and he almost talks about Valpo going to the MVC as a fait accompli. They talk for 20-30 minutes and its very heavy talking about Valpo that whole time. He talks about what he thinks of the ARC and about how he see Valpo as a fit from his point of view from a former MVC athletics director point of view.

Worth a listen, imo. (start at 21:50).
http://onpressrow.com/test/2017/05/04/on-press-row-5417-presented-by-whiskey-road-tavern-grill/

He did mention that the ARC held about 3,000 and was filled many of the games he reffed but would need to be upgraded. 3000?  😖

I cringed a bit when I heard him say the ARC only had a capacity of 3,000 (we avg more then 3,000). I sort of just shrugged it off. He's a ref not a fan sitting in the stands taking in the game, probably pretty concentrating on the game and not looking up into the crowd. Maybe he misspoke or just assumed. We drew over 5,500 for the St. Mary's game during the NIT game a little over a year ago.

I'm not sure if heard anything or if he was just basing it off the Adams report. I talk to one of the UNI fans about it and they said Rick Hartzell is as plugged into the MVC as anyone, so he may have heard something similar to Mark Adams about Valpo being a likely add.

He still had a lot of other interesting things to say about Valpo and the MVC Conference.

I agree with him that it may have been time for Wichita State to leave. It may be a blessing disguise to have them leave because they were more th doubling the next highest budget in the MVC (Bradley) and outspending everyone. Might wake up some programs and administrators from taking a defeatist attitude towards MBB. 

[VU2014]

The New Valley Starts...Tomorrow?
By Harry Schroeder on May 8, 2017

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/the-new-valley-startstomorrow/

[wh]

The New Valley Starts...Tomorrow?
By Harry Schroeder on May 8, 2017

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/the-new-valley-startstomorrow/

From the article:

"Others (this writer included) believe the aggressive decision (adding three teams) is not only about making the big splash, but also adding solid programs with winning traditions (Valpo and Murray State) and a program on the rise, which would characterize both Milwaukee and Omaha."

If Milwaukee is "a program on the rise," Valpo's program is in shambles.

[VU2014]

I do really like the UWM hire but I'm not sure if I would characterize them as "on the rise" either.

They have potential to improve the next few years but this current staff they have is still unproven in recruiting and OOC scheduleing. Also their Athletics Department is pretty toxic right now.

If were the MVC I would wait on inviting them and see another 1-2yrs of results of the program. I don't think the HL can grow or make its self as attractive as some think they can be in a few years to entice teams to stay.

I do think HL will be better the next few years but I don't trust coaches to stay around if they start having success with those programs.

[VULB#62]

The New Valley Starts...Tomorrow?
By Harry Schroeder on May 8, 2017

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/the-new-valley-startstomorrow/

From the article:

"Others (this writer included) believe the aggressive decision (adding three teams) is not only about making the big splash, but also adding solid programs with winning traditions (Valpo and Murray State) and a program on the rise, which would characterize both Milwaukee and Omaha."

If Milwaukee is "a program on the rise," Valpo's program is in shambles.

Next to that article by Harry Schroeder on the right side are "related articles.'  One is

A Closer Look at Milwaukee (Part 3)
Authored by Jimmy Lemke (@PantherU) for Valley Hoops

Jimmy does a pretty good job of justifying, from his perspective, Milwaukee's place at the table as a #3 choice, acknowledging that Valpo and MuSU should go before his Pathers.  But if a #3 is to be added now his arguments are pretty decent.  BTW, I didn't realize that they sunk $10 million into Pather Arena in 2014.

[VU2014]

The New Valley Starts...Tomorrow?
By Harry Schroeder on May 8, 2017

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/the-new-valley-startstomorrow/

From the article:

"Others (this writer included) believe the aggressive decision (adding three teams) is not only about making the big splash, but also adding solid programs with winning traditions (Valpo and Murray State) and a program on the rise, which would characterize both Milwaukee and Omaha."

If Milwaukee is "a program on the rise," Valpo's program is in shambles.

Next to that article by Harry Schroeder on the right side are "related article.s'  One is

A Closer Look at Milwaukee (Part 3)
Authored by Jimmy Lemke (@PantherU) for Valley Hoops

Jimmy does a pretty good job of justifying, from his perspective, Milwaukee's place at the table as a #3 choice, acknowledging that Valpo and MuSU should go before his Pathers.  But if a #3 is added his arguments are pretty decent.  BTW, I didn't realize that they sunk $10 million into Pather Arena in 2014.

Jimmy's opinion and ideas could literally change every hour. He's always trying to sell people on Milwaukee.

I remember a few days ago he was singing the praise of Valpo when it seemed like the MVC was going to go 12 and UWM would seem like the sensible 12th. And then Mark Adams tweeted that he heard Valpo would likely be the 10th and only member of the MVC and then the next day he start $hitting on Valpo. He is completely bipolar on his arguments and his statements change depending on the party & forum he is speaking too. I honestly respect his passion for the UWM athletics (particularly basketball). But I always try and step back when I hear his arguments to try & objectively look at what his end game is which is to convince people on UWM and sell people on them.

Since this article series he's been trying to lobby Murray State to join the HL if the MVC only takes Valpo this year.

[Dave_2010]

Milwaukee in 2017 is the equivalent of Loyola last time around (and NKU in the last round of Horizon expansion).

The potential to be a strong member exists, but it hasn't been proven yet. Even if you give Jimmy the benefit of the doubt re: the team improving long-term, there are still serious structural questions to address.

Assuming the game of musical ADs (by far its biggest issue) is finally over, MKE still has serious concerns to address. Where the Panthers  rank in the city's sporting priority list (#4 in basketball alone)  is a cause for concern with me. The key to getting and maintaining local interest is media coverage. If you aren't getting ink/airtime it's and uphill battle. No matter how many games they win, I just can't see them jumping the Bucks, Badgers, and Marquette in terms of local attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wh]

1 of the worst seasons in Milwaukee D-1 history ended like 8 weeks ago, and they're a program "on the rise?"  Why, because Jimmy said so? Because the bar is so low they can't help but improve?  Because a 1500 fans/game average at a school of 20-30,000 students can't possibly go lower? 

Just trying to understand...

[valpo64]

If we are the chosen one, can we figure that the up-coming season will be in "The Valley"?

[VU2014]

I posed this question to the MVC beat reporters and this was their responses:
https://twitter.com/KirkWessler/status/861638135570198529
https://twitter.com/KirkWessler/status/861641174754496512
https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/861328214928633856
https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/861328126105845762
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/861329610830749697
https://twitter.com/PaulSuellentrop/status/861403554329878528
https://twitter.com/CJCunningham3/status/861329230747009024
https://twitter.com/Jim_Connell_417/status/861330471812300805
https://twitter.com/ECP_Allar/status/861341279128608769

Todd Aaron Golden didn't respond to the tweet but he tweet this out a little while ago (he hasn't said this but I get the sense he wants Murray State over Valpo because he thinks the Publics pull their weight more then Private schools. I think he thinks Valpo because Private Presidents may want Private)
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/861637205852401668
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/861637993098096642
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/861638386033012741
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/861638698655514624

His article about the Public vs Private split in the MVC (I highly encourage you all give this a read, gives it an interesting look into the MVC background)

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/todd-aaron-golden-mvc-private-schools-flex-muscles-in-board/article_b1c27388-f594-54f1-9380-321e70e028e6.html

[VULB#62]

1 of the worst seasons in Milwaukee D-1 history ended like 8 weeks ago, and they're a program "on the rise?"  Why, because Jimmy said so? Because the bar is so low they can't help but improve?  Because a 1500 fans/game average at a school of 20-30,000 students can't possibly go lower? 

Just trying to understand...

Yeah, pretty much everything he wrote in the piece was about the future, potential, possibilities and so on (found it interesting that he even complimented the AD's tough standards for winning.  He wrote volumes against her only 12 months ago).  But behind all that as I read it, I couldn't help shaking the feeling that Milwaukee is a sleeping giant and if they ever got their athletic act together and found/developed the necessary funding, they, while still remaining #4 in MKE, might be kicking some serious butt outside of MKE in whatever league they are in.  But a lot of pieces have to fall into the right places at the right time for that to happen and UWM has not demonstrated that they have the ability to make that happen -- especially quickly.

[crusaderjoe]

Todd Aaron Golden didn't respond to the tweet but he tweet this out a little while ago (he hasn't said this but I get the sense he wants Murray State over Valpo because he thinks the Publics pull their weight more then Private schools. I think he thinks Valpo because Private Presidents may want Private)

If he is worried about VU coming into the MVC because of the public vs. private distinction, I would suggest that Valpo is an anomaly as far as conference affiliation is concerned. 

VU made the move to D-I in the late '70's I believe.  It helped charter the AMCU-8 in 1982, which is now the Summit League, formerly known as the Mid-Continent Conference.  When that league was chartered, VU was the only private institution in the league, and remained so until 1997.  Only when Oral Roberts joined did Valpo share conference membership with another private school. 

Between 1982 and 2007, or looking at about 25 years' worth of history, Valpo had only two conference members ever who were private (ORU and Centenary).  While this changed when VU joined the HL, with the departures of Butler and Loyola, VU is now back to where it was in 1997, sharing a conference currently with one other private school member (Detroit).

A great majority of Valpo's conference mates have either been, or continue to be, larger, publicly funded state institutions.  This history would suggest that while VU is a private school that can relate to Drake, UE, Bradley and LUC on many levels by virtue of being private, Valpo has pretty much only known mid size or large state schools historically conference wise, and therefore has the ability to understand the MVC publics on many levels too should it join the MVC.  And, at least since 1993, generally we have been able to compete fairly well in MBB against both the publics and the privates in both of our previous leagues.

[bigmosmithfan1]

The public/private thing seems to be a very silly issue for a non-P5 conference that doesn't play FBS football to get hung up on. It doesn't matter at this level. What matters is the volume and commitment of good basketball programs in the league and the travel works financially. That's it.

The A-10 has proven this model works, with a mix of both public and private institutions.

[valpotx]

Anyone who isn't on board with an MVC move hasn't been following their conference.  They get multiple bids in just about every sport, though not as often recently in Men's Basketball.  They get multiple bids in baseball, volleyball, softball, etc.

That was at a time when WSU and CREIGHTON were in the league.  ITS NOT THE SAME LEAGUE, just like the HL is not the same league post Butler.

No, it was not.  Wichita State and Creighton were not the reason that the MVC received multiple bids in sports outside of Men's Basketball.  Let's look at 2 examples:

Baseball - 1 bid by Dallas Baptist in 2016, but 3 in 2015 with Bradley, Missouri State, and Dallas Baptist.  Missouri State is currently leading the conference, while Wichita State is middle of the pack.  Survey says, Wichita State is not the reason they received multiple bids in Baseball recently.  Conference still receives multiple bids without WSU.

Volleyball - 3 bids in 2016 with Missouri State, Northern Iowa, and Wichita State, but 4 in 2015 with Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, and Wichita State.  Survey says, conference still receives multiple bids without WSU.

The conference is in much better position to get multiple bids in all sports, versus what we have in the HL.  I know that Men's Basketball hasn't been as successful recently in gaining multiple bids, but is in obvious position to have that possibility, much more so than the HL.

MBB is all I care about, sadly.

Right, which further confuses me as to why you responded to my initial post in the first place.  I definitely laid out that it hasn't been as much in Men's Basketball recently, and was clearly referencing that the benefit was more to the other sports, while still having a solid Basketball foundation. 

[agibson]

If we are the chosen one, can we figure that the up-coming season will be in "The Valley"?

It sounds like it.

A little to my surprise, all signs seem to be that all negotiating has already happened. With the candidate universities presumably already agreeing to accept an invitation if offered. It sounds like the Valley intends to announce things tomorrow as a done deal.

It's going to cause a little bit of scheduling stress and chaos, but people seem to think it can happen already for the fall.

[FieldGoodie05]

Anyone who isn't on board with an MVC move hasn't been following their conference.  They get multiple bids in just about every sport, though not as often recently in Men's Basketball.  They get multiple bids in baseball, volleyball, softball, etc.

That was at a time when WSU and CREIGHTON were in the league.  ITS NOT THE SAME LEAGUE, just like the HL is not the same league post Butler.

No, it was not.  Wichita State and Creighton were not the reason that the MVC received multiple bids in sports outside of Men's Basketball.  Let's look at 2 examples:

Baseball - 1 bid by Dallas Baptist in 2016, but 3 in 2015 with Bradley, Missouri State, and Dallas Baptist.  Missouri State is currently leading the conference, while Wichita State is middle of the pack.  Survey says, Wichita State is not the reason they received multiple bids in Baseball recently.  Conference still receives multiple bids without WSU.

Volleyball - 3 bids in 2016 with Missouri State, Northern Iowa, and Wichita State, but 4 in 2015 with Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, and Wichita State.  Survey says, conference still receives multiple bids without WSU.

The conference is in much better position to get multiple bids in all sports, versus what we have in the HL.  I know that Men's Basketball hasn't been as successful recently in gaining multiple bids, but is in obvious position to have that possibility, much more so than the HL.

MBB is all I care about, sadly.

Right, which further confuses me as to why you responded to my initial post in the first place.  I definitely laid out that it hasn't been as much in Men's Basketball recently, and was clearly referencing that the benefit was more to the other sports, while still having a solid Basketball foundation.

It's no worries, but this is a Basketball thread based on the subject.  That's the reason for my original reply.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/861684771784720385
"Valparaiso University- Leading Candidate to Join The Valley
As first reported last week the Missouri Valley Conference presidents will meet on a conference call tonight at 7PM CDT to discuss MVC expansion.
Wichita State left the conference for the American Athletic Conference last month and now sources close to the process indicate The Valley will likely add one member to replace Wichita State for the 2017-18 season continuing as a ten school conference.

One source close to the discussions described the situation this way, "Seemed Valpo was a done deal".

Expect a final decision no later than tomorrow. As per my sources, Valparaiso University is expacted to accept an invitation."