Oakland's Horizon League Announcement Tuesday, May 7th at 4:00 pm????

[StlVUFan]

Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html

Nicely done, but noticed he stated something about Valpo being "back in a conference with two members from the old Mid-Con".  Aren't there more than two or am I missing his point?

I'm guessing he's referring to OU and YSU.  Probably sanity-blocking the history of WSU/CSU/UIC/UWM/UWGB and the old 1994 cloak-of-darkness-Irsay-style exit

[Pgmado]

I should've explained better. I was referring to teams that left recently for Horizon since Oakland joined Mid-Con. Yes, all these teams trade back and forth with each other.

[wh]

Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html

This should be required reading for every member of every HL message board.  Way too much of the conversation about the identity of the HL past, present, and future is being driven by negative ninnys and sad sacks. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

I thought it was some of his best writing--esp. in re: reasoning/arguing.  Thanks for the link.

[crusaderjoe]

Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html

Yeah, I'm sure the MVC is just suicidal that it incorporated the third largest media market within its conference footprint.     Never mind the fact that games in Chicago now mean that graduates from Bradley, Illinois State, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa can see their school play "locally" and on a more repetitive basis than in years past if they work or reside in Chicagoland. That's what Valpo fans did when they outnumbered Loyola fans at the Gentile as self admittedly stated by the author, right?  Now this can happen in triplicate with Loyola in the league.  Loyola was a terrible addition.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Never mind the fact that games in Chicago now mean that graduates from Bradley, Illinois State, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa can see their school play "locally" and on a more repetitive basis than in years past if they work or reside in Chicagoland.

That's the only valid counterargument that came to mind.  But in this case, it's like they didn't really want Loyola.  They just wanted a place to play "home games" in Chicago then.

[a3uge]

Here's a blog entry from Paul Oren that I haven't seen linked yet.

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/oakland-is-the-right-fit-for-horizon-league/article_3a679bfa-b8c1-11e2-ab6d-001a4bcf887a.html

Yeah, I'm sure the MVC is just suicidal that it incorporated the third largest media market within its conference footprint.     Never mind the fact that games in Chicago now mean that graduates from Bradley, Illinois State, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa can see their school play "locally" and on a more repetitive basis than in years past if they work or reside in Chicagoland. That's what Valpo fans did when they outnumbered Loyola fans at the Gentile as self admittedly stated by the author, right?  Now this can happen in triplicate with Loyola in the league.  Loyola was a terrible addition.

Attendance at Valpo Loyola game was 1986. The UIC Loyola game was 3263, the only other time that broke 3k. Bradley at UIC manged 3831 for a bracketbuster. I'm glad the HL isn't adding a team based on road attendance from the road team because then we might as well add Chicago State.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Greg Kampe sees better schedule, competition on Horizon for Oakland (with video)

http://www.freep.com/article/20130508/SPORTS08/305080143/oakland-university-horizon-league-greg-kampe

I never cared much for Kampe humor, but then again some of you may.  Says some interesting things.  I didn't bother watching the video though.

--talks about HL opening recruiting doors (Chicago, Milwaukee)
--talks about HL making at-large possible
--talks about finally having a natural rival
--LeCrone talks about Oakland making the Final Four (no, really)

[mvandersee]

To say that switching out Loyola for Oakland will get start to get the HL at-large bids is getting a little ahead of ourselves.  I believe that we still need another program with consistent success or at least more name recognition before we can say that the Butler-era at-large bids will return. Even with a 24-7 regular season record this year Valpo was nowhere near the bubble discussion.

[wh]

Greg Kampe sees better schedule, competition on Horizon for Oakland (with video)

http://www.freep.com/article/20130508/SPORTS08/305080143/oakland-university-horizon-league-greg-kampe

I never cared much for Kampe humor, but then again some of you may.  Says some interesting things.  I didn't bother watching the video though.

--talks about HL opening recruiting doors (Chicago, Milwaukee)
--talks about HL making at-large possible
--talks about finally having a natural rival
--LeCrone talks about Oakland making the Final Four (no, really)

Wow, someone who's truly excited to be in the HL.  Can you imagine that?  Talks about how you can get to the championship game from this league.  Imagine that!  Maybe we're not actually the "mid con" of old just because the schools are the same.  I'll bet Kampe doesn't think so.  With His attitude rest assured it won't be long before Oakland will be competing for HL titles every year.  That's what visionaries do. All the while this will continue to go over the heads of the same cry baby fans of other HL teams who think the only way their program can become a winner is to switch leagues.  I look to see Valpo, Wright State and Oakland dominate the HL over the next 5 years.  That is unless we add another program with another one of these dreamer coaches full of optimism like Bryce, Donovan and Kampe.

[classof2014]

To say that switching out Loyola for Oakland will get start to get the HL at-large bids is getting a little ahead of ourselves.  I believe that we still need another program with consistent success or at least more name recognition before we can say that the Butler-era at-large bids will return. Even with a 24-7 regular season record this year Valpo was nowhere near the bubble discussion.

Disagree with you here, like wh said: Valpo, WSU, and Oakland will be the top 3 in the league for many, many years. Will the HL be a multi-bid league every year? No. If The Shot II didn't fall then we would've been playing in the NIT. But if Valpo would've managed a few quality OOC wins, like NM, SLU, or NE then they would've been in the debate for an at-large bid or they could've been seeded higher than the 14. Adding Oakland, another quality mid-major program, adds two more games against a quality opponent and being able to play better teams year in year out is huge. For the HL in order to be a two bid league right now, the answer lay in the OOC schedule and if you can manage a win or two against top ranked programs, you're just that more likely to get an at-large bid.

Like wh said it's guys like Drew, Kampe, and Donnelly that can elevate teams into a powerhouse program, so long this trio of coaches stay, the sky is the limit for their 3 programs.

To say the HL will NEVER be a multi-bid league is a vast over-statement. Will it be every year? No. But if these 3 programs keep excelling and getting quality recruits and have 3 of the best coaches in college basketball and being located in a highly talent rich area. I can see Wright State, Oakland, and Valparaiso turning into household names among the college basketball world in the next 5 to 10 years.

Adding Oakland makes the HL much stronger and like wh said the possibility of another top mid-major program joining in the coming years can really elevate the HL to rival the quality of the MVC if not exceed it. The process is slow and will take time. Nothing is certain but our horizon looks bright.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

With His attitude rest assured

Gosh, <bold>wh</unbold>...you sound like a disciple already...yipes.

[vu72]

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA

He actually said he doesn't have to schedule people like that any more because of the HL, so...there's that.

Sorry on the RPI stuff--I think a3uge will be your math guy there.  In fact, he or gibson may have already done some stuff.

I'll give you non-con though:
MVC was 75-45.  Minus Creighton (11-2) plus Loyola (9-4): 73-47, only 2 games worse, because remember, Loyola didn't suck so hard OOC.
HL was 61-54.  Minus Loyola (9-4) plus Oakland (4-9): 56-59, because Oakland actually played a hard schedule.

So without looking at the actual teams they played, MVC picked up 3 games on us.

All right now you've gotten me warmed up.  Again, if one of y'all did this before, then my apologies, especially to myself, who is doing this on Mother's Day.

MVC average RPI:  117.0  Minus Creighton (25) plus Loyola (223): 136.8
HL average RPI: 166.2  Minus Loyola (223) plus Oakland (166): 158.3

We still have some ground to make up, but we were almost 50 points lower on average at first, and then cut it to 22, so that's good.

Be interesting to see what happens with ConfUSA, the new American Athletic Wutzis, and the relegated A10, as I see those just as likely to be passable in the Brave New World.  (Thanks, LonghornNetwork!)

We are pretty high up already, despite what our Eeyores say, and it'll be as difficult to pass other conferences as it is to get us into one of them...

[wh]

With His attitude rest assured

Gosh, <bold>wh</unbold>...you sound like a disciple already...yipes.

Not a disciple but I do admire his unfettered optimism as leader of a program that earned a promotion to a better league by overcoming recruiting obstacles that only Valpo can relate to among current HL teams. The rest of these coaching staffs have never had to try to convince recruits to come play for a team that plays against a bunch of low major teams 5 or 6 states away. Or, convince players to play in their inferior facilities over everyone else's glitz and glitter arenas.  These other teams have no idea how good they've got it by comparison, and yet some still recruit like crap.  Then their fans have the audacity to think they should be promoted to a higher rated conference when they can't even pull their weight in the HL. Today's entitlement culture proudly on display in the Horizon League.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Oh, I know, I was just pointing out that you capitalized His, like he was Jesus or the dictator of the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea.

[wh]

Oh, I know, I was just pointing out that you capitalized His, like he was Jesus or the dictator of the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea.

Oh my word, you quip went right over my head. lol

[vu72]

I'm pretty sure Kampe has scheduled the UCLAs and NCs of the world for this coming year but said he wouldn't have to after this year because of the higher rpi of the Horizon.  It should be interresting how it all shakes out!

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I'm pretty sure Kampe has scheduled the UCLAs and NCs of the world for this coming year

True--I read it to mean the past year, but you are right.

Last year of the top 60 they had
Alabama (60)
Tennessee (59)
Us. (58)  Also, in other news we had a better RPI than 2 SEC (football) powers.  So yeah.
Boise St (45)
Pittsburgh (44)
Michigan St (9)  In worse news we were the only win they had.

For the latest in mitigating circumstances, though, let's go to Channel 6's Brick Sprickly.  Brick?
"Tom, tonight heads are shaking at that last comment.  I spoke to people on the internet, who pointed out that among those top 60 teams, Valpo was also the only home game they had.  Also, you should probably go to bed as your posts are getting increasingly erratic. Back to (V) yoU."

Consider that, my fine friends:  a home schedule where the biggest and best draw is YOUR VALPO CRUSADERS.  Also their only legit home nonconference D1 game, other than the BracketBluster.  Seriously, if you don't believe me:
http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Oakland.html
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2473/oakland-golden-grizzlies

[wh]

"Look out Horizon League 'cause the Golden Grizzlies are here"

http://wjbk.videodownload.worldnow.com/WJBK_0805201317131941347AC.mp4

Notice the reference to opening up new recruiting areas - Chicago, Milwaukee, the entire state of Ohio.  The enthusiasm is a breath of fresh air.

[vu72]

I guess what I'm suggesting is that we drop a 216 rpi (end of season) and add a 150 while the Valley drops a 20 and adds a a 216.  This has to help the Horizon rank wise but should hurt the Valley even more.  Now, both Oakland's and Loyola's rpi should move up (given an identical schedule) because of the improvement in the conference part but Oakland's should improve more because of the significant jump in competition.

[Western4Life]

Oakland is no joke, they will be an immediate player because they were getting it done without being able to recruit all the talent they wanted. Now all I have to say is look out!

Suit and tie means something with Kampe means he is going to polish this one for a while. Just from joking with people at Oakland I know the Griz want to break it off in Detroit.  Let em know were they really rank if you can see where that is going. Years of hassle and ludicrous matchups because of that boycott has to chap the arse. It is going to be intense, Detroit is in for a very very rude awakening. I wouldn't be socked to see Oakland get the MVC invite if they have 2 years of success in the HL. They could be asked to join with Valpo... 

No football drama, hoops schools, decent market place awareness, Detroit & 'The Shot' joining to make the MVC 12. Dayton and SLU having just committed to the Big East. Not too far fetched... RPI it and tell me I am crazy.

[Big D]

No football drama, hoops schools, decent market place awareness, Detroit & 'The Shot' joining to make the MVC 12. Dayton and SLU having just committed to the Big East. Not too far fetched... RPI it and tell me I am crazy.

UD and SLU didn't just commit to the Big East.  They have not been invited. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Detroit & 'The Shot' joining to make the MVC 12. Dayton and SLU having just committed to the Big East.

UD and SLU didn't just commit to the Big East.  They have not been invited. 

Big D, read the previous sentence--s/he's talking future events, not present.  As in, "imagine Detroit and VU joining the MVC (this happening right after Dayton and SLU join the Almost Catholic Conference)".

[StlVUFan]

I heard Kampe say he could afford to dial it back... a little.  I didn't hear him say he was going to stop altogether.  I'm still thinking he's going to set a great example on non-con scheduling.

Also, LeCrone and Kampe both simply pointed out -- re: making it to the final four -- that it's been done from this conference.  Neither one of them implied it was going to be easy.  In fact, you can tell from the way LeCrone framed it (using that old "answer a question you assume people are asking" gimmick): "No, it is not out of the question for Oakland or Detroit or some other HL team to make it to the Final Four."  Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  But it doesn't have to be.  I guarantee you Kampe knows how hard it is.  It's not his job to be a realist.  It's his job to have a vision and a goal and sell his recruits on it.