Oakland's Horizon League Announcement Tuesday, May 7th at 4:00 pm????

[Pathfinder]

Oakland opens the 2013-14 season with North Carolina, UCLA, Cal, and Gonzaga, all on the road, of course. They'll probably also play at Michigan State.

[Chuck A]

Oakland opens the 2013-14 season with North Carolina, UCLA, Cal, and Gonzaga, all on the road, of course. They'll probably also play at Michigan State.

Is there any sliver of hope that they can get one of these games?  If so, which one?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Gonzaga.  I originally had UCLA in mind, but with Steve Alford there, they might be a bit more disciplined and defensive minded to lose to the Grizz.

I know this will probably change the tenor of this thread, but I had to ask.

[vu72]

Does Oakland have a bunch of kids returning or is this a rebuilding year?

I just researched my own question!  They only graduated two and I have no idea how much of an impact those two had.  They should be pretty tough.

[classof2014]

Does Oakland have a bunch of kids returning or is this a rebuilding year?

I just researched my own question!  They only graduated two and I have no idea how much of an impact those two had.  They should be pretty tough.

They probably have one of the leading candidates for POY in Travis Bader, who averaged 22 PPG last season. They'll definitely be in the top tear of the HL next season.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

in the top tear of the HL

better than a top tear of the ACL

[milanmiracle]

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

[vu72]

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  I wasn't saying that we would/could make the final four or anything like that.  The question has to do with conference rpi.

[Chuck A]

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like? Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Last season the HL was the 12th rated conference in the nation, and that was with Loyola.  The MVC was rated 8th or 9th and that was with Creighton.  Of course they still have Wichita State, but like it is with the HL, teams 2-10 are pretty much a crap shoot comparatively speaking.  Heads up last season, the Valley got us, we give them that.  This season, however, the addition of Oakland does make the HL stronger as well as the conference having pretty good recruiting classes across the board.  The Grizz return a couple of nice players in Bader and Mondy plus a decent recruiting class.  But to get over the hump that is the Missouri Valley and the A-10, I think we need to continue on our upward trend and bring in a program like Belmont.  Belmont would absolutely put us over the hump. If the HL wanted to be more visionary, then the addition of Murray State and Northern Kentucky would definitely put us in the top 10. This also would increase our chances of having multiple teams in the Dance.

The Horizon needs to develop a sense of unity and strength as it pertains to its member institutions and cease the talk and/or appearance of wanting to leaving this conference.  It's a good league and will only get better.

[a3uge]

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

Butler made the final four twice... Didn't mean the Horizon was better than the MVC in those two years. And by this standard MVC > ACC, SEC, BIG12...

Also can we wait for Northern Kentucky to become even post season eligible before we start anointing them? The only thing of note they've done is exist and get into a scandal with their AD. Simply existing with a big stadium doesn't guarantee success.

[Chuck A]

Also can we wait for Northern Kentucky to become even post season eligible before we start anointing them? The only thing of note they've done is exist and get into a scandal with their AD. Simply existing with a big stadium doesn't guarantee success.

I don't think anybody's anointing NKU as much as noting that they have done an excellent job of transitioning to the Division I level. They've spent money on athletics. They vigorously recruit their area eventhough, like most of us, they're going up against the Big Boys. Most programs when they move up, usually take more than the required 4 years to be a respectable program. NKU is doing it the right way. We talk about facilities and spending money. Why? Well, it means you have a better shot at bringing in recruits. Every recruit nowadays know they are not going to North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, et al, but a whole lot of them still like to play in nice arenas with fans cheering. NKU has this. In NKU's first season in Division I, they finished 9-9 in conference and, I think 11-15 or 16. For a first year D1 program, that's not bad.

We're not anointing them, just looking at their upside...and it's good.

[milanmiracle]

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  I wasn't saying that we would/could make the final four or anything like that.  The question has to do with conference rpi.

Until some games in the NCAA tournament are won by teams still in the conference, is this really a discussion? I started researching the MVC vs. the Horizon League vs. the OVC in the NCAA's, but it became tiresome.

Since 2003 Milwaukee is the only Horizon League team to win games in the NCAA (3), while the OVC has 3 wins since 2010. Wichita State beat both in one year by going 4-1 last year and as a conference they are 8-6 since 2010.

[milanmiracle]

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like?

Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Didn't Wichita State just make the Final Four? Next question.

Butler made the final four twice... Didn't mean the Horizon was better than the MVC in those two years. And by this standard MVC > ACC, SEC, BIG12...Also can we wait for Northern Kentucky to become even post season eligible before we start anointing them? The only thing of note they've done is exist and get into a scandal with their AD. Simply existing with a big stadium doesn't guarantee success.

No, that's true, it certainly doesn't mean that the Horizon was better than the MVC, but it does add credibility and legitamacy to those in the conference. Valpo seems to like to hang their hat on beating Butler the last four times they played...why? Because you beat a nationally respected team, not a team that missed the NCAA tournament one of those years.

[EddieCabot]

I've already stated that I like the Oakland addition ... they value basketball, have baseball and are within the Horizon footprint.  Win, win, win.

With that said, it's probably not fair for people (me included) to crown them as the team to elevate the Horizon.  After digging into the details, they do return 4 starters ... but their last 5 games this season included a loss to YSU and THREE losses to IPFW.  Time to temper my expectations a bit.

IMO, Milan hit on a key issue.  Conference RPI rating is "nice" and gives you a general idea of where you stand.  However, things like wins over BCS schools, putting multiple teams in the NCAA tourney and getting NCAA tourney wins are the things that get your conference national recognition.  Those things also help pay the bills.

It hasn't been mentioned here, but the Horizon has had back-to-back years of earning one NCAA tourney share.  If that doesn't change in the next 3 or 4 years, the league will be back to earning under $2 million in tourney shares.  That sounds like a lot, but compared to the $4.5 million they earned in 2011 and 2012, that would be a significant decrease.

As many have mentioned, adding Oakland fixes things for now.  Any teams added going forward need to be "at-large quality" teams that can earn additional bids and garner some wins in the NCAA tourney.

[justducky]

The Horizon needs to develop a sense of unity and strength as it pertains to its member institutions and cease the talk and/or appearance of wanting to leaving this conference.  It's a good league and will only get better.

As long as Kampe is coaching, the Oakland addition looks very good. The Loyola departure for mens basketball should also be a positive. All else being equal and with the current memberships I would think the HL would be slightly better than the MVC maybe 1 year out of 5, dead even in another, and not too far back in the other 3. Given all the recent turmoil I feel reasonably comfortable being so positioned.

[dylanrocks]

Since 2003, Milwaukee is the only Horizon League team to win games in the NCAA (3).

For the record, Cleveland State defeated fourth-seeded Wake Forest 84-69 in what used to be known as the NCAA Tournament first round in 2009 in a dazzling display.

This marks the league's only other tournament victory since 2003.

Eddie and Milan have this right. Tournament and non-conference performance are how a league makes a name for itself, not RPI, though the latter can be a means of improving one's lot.

[Western4Life]

Oakland's baseball facility is not very good. Western is playing there in the SL tourney at the moment. They give baseball some stability but if you need the Leathernecks to help just call us up  Facilities are so hard to invest into when you have an entire campus arms race to fight. http://www.ougrizzlies.com/facilities/ou-baseball-field.html If Western had a players clubhouse it would be a legit baseball facility after the recent seating, press box, and dugout upgrades. I feel Western has put terrible pics of the field up or at least the display of them is poor from my perspective. http://www.goleathernecks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=623290 This is better. http://www.flickr.com/photos/westernillinoisuniversity/2379665281/# I am a big baseball fan so don't get too mad. I can just get a little 


Kampe will keep basketball at a high level in the HL, he finally be able to recruit talent comparable enough to compete for March Madness wins.... so watch out. Seriously. Support for them will increase on and off campus as well, the HL move would be big time for any SL school honestly. I know Western would prefer to see itself there with the MVFC affiliation.

PS, Western's AD is out and Leatherneck club membership is up almost triple digits in 72 hours ha. I'd love to see Valpo on the schedule soon.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Facilities are so hard to invest into when you have an entire campus arms race to fight.

[wh]

The Oakland Athletic Dept. is promoting a new T-shirt with "A NEW HORIZON" and their logo on the front.  It comes in 3 different colors, as well.  Pretty cool.

http://www.oaklandgrizzliesgear.com

[LaPorteAveApostle]

pretty sweet.  i'd buy one.  everything old is new again.

[bbtds]

In that case let's go back to the Ford model T. This one, of course, has been altered because model T's only came in black.

[valpopal]

Interesting sudden development out of Oakland: university president announces retirement on same day his wife, the women's basketball coach, is fired:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130612/SCHOOLS/306120111/1361/Oakland-University-president-Russi-retiring-Aug.-1

[covufan]

Interesting sudden development out of Oakland: university president announces retirement on same day his wife, the women's basketball coach, is fired:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130612/SCHOOLS/306120111/1361/Oakland-University-president-Russi-retiring-Aug.-1

Odd.  How would you like to be the AD - having to fire your boss's wife?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

It's easier if you force him to retire the same day.

Remember, you're the AD and he's just a president.

In the words of the late great E Gordon Gee, "Fire him? I just hope Coach Tressel doesn't fire meeeee!"

{sound of 10 million Wolverines laughing hysterically}

[historyman]

It does make one wonder what's in the water in the Detroit area that strange things, which is probably part of a bigger story, happen with the AD's and their bosses and underlings in Div. I and the HL.

[StlVUFan]

It does make one wonder what's in the water in the Detroit area that strange things, which is probably part of a bigger story, happen with the AD's and their bosses and underlings in Div. I and the HL.

My sense is this: the women's program has really been struggling lately, but it has been difficult to fire her because of her relationship with the president.  A deal was worked out whereby the President would retire and the coach would go with him (I've seen "fired", I've seen "relieved", and I've seen "retired"), and the tension is gone.

Not a good situation, but I really don't get the feeling there's anything scandalous that has yet to surface.  Always possible, of course (and it was my first gut reaction), but the above (gleaned from the OU message board, by the way) seems quite plausible and not fishy at all.