VU/LCMS

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Not that anyone's too concerned with a Catholic weighing in, but my $0.04:

--if that's how you really feel, Paul, then I concur much more wholeheartedly.  but numbers and mission have been a problem for mainline Protestants for decades now.

--and in higher ed, it's even worse, for all concerned. Look at Georgetown, or any number of Catholic "Jesuit" schools.  But that was the central--and more hotly debated at the time--thrust of W.F. Buckley's God and Man At Yale; though today it is remembered as castigating his alma mater (and Ivies by extension) for being a bastion of (and for) wealth and privilege ("Man"), what was controversial at the time was his accusing them of losing their faith ("God").  But clearly he wasn't wrong--look at them today!  Look at Butler, or my alma mater--a nominally Methodist school--which had daily required chapel in my grandmother's day.  In my mother's day it had required chapel 3 days a week when she arrived in the mid-60s, and then no required anything by the end of the decade.  When I showed up in the mid-90s, there were no services of any kind, let alone Methodist. (And this is not to say that "required chapel" is the be-all or end-all--it's simply a convenient quantifying factor in describing a spirit that, like a bass guitar, is often only noticed when it's gone.)

--Paul doesn't want this to happen to VU, and he's right; he shouldn't have to dig around for a "sub-site" to find references to Jesus Christ or the denomination.  Again, soft-pedaling on a website is not the cause of a university losing its faith; it's symptomatic of how much importance is being placed on it.

--An anecdote now 15 years old: my mother politely asking one of her (high school) students if she might consider coming to VU, and she replied, "Oh no, I'm going to a *Christian* school."  Cedarville or Calvin or something.

[vu72]

Well, there are many "misdirected" Christians who would put a litmus test of sorts on all.  "You qualify because...you don't because" The gospel of Christ is about a "gift", something you can not earn via some sort of proclamation.  I won't point fingers at any specific institutions here...

Paul's claim about a lack of faith proclamation is wrong.

Here is part of what is said on the Valpo site AND, it isn't hard to find:

Connecting Faith to Life
The distinctive Lutheran character of Valparaiso University is enhanced by the connection of our everyday life to the Christian faith. Many Christians, especially Lutherans, talk about this in terms of 'vocation,' referring to a variety of worthy paths of life and service in the world, a concept that reaches far beyond 'church vocations'. Valparaiso University students, alumni, faculty, staff and administrators live out across campus and throughout the world this relationship of Christian faith to our daily life. Assisting students to discover and affirm their calling in life is part of the mission of the University community.

As one crosses the campus, several examples of this intersection between faith and life can be discovered. From the engineers designing irrigation systems for remote African villages to nurses exploring elder care, from educators preparing for the classroom to business students assisting local businesses with ethical decisions, from artists preparing for service to the church to worship gatherings, this connection between daily life and faith radiates throughout the campus community.

Now, THIS is faith--NOT equating some visual or vocal "faith" but rather teaching students to LIVE their faith via service to others.

Paul's attack began with assailing Valpo's attitude toward the LCMS and has now shifted to a comparison with Calvinists.  Interesting...

[usc4valpo]

Guys, I say this respectfully -- you are missing the point here. The point isn't whether VU has a good reputation -- it does. Or whether it's as well-known as other "Lutheran" schools --it may be (although I think St. Olaf clearly beats us in the "well known" category). And the point isn't whether VU is 40% Lutheran, or 36% Lutheran, or 10% Lutheran -- it doesn't matter (I wouldn't care if VU was 0% Lutheran). The point, as WH phrased it, is that VU has lost its spiritual identity, that we are a religious school in name only. This assertion should concern every person associated with VU. Is it true, or not? I submit it is true. As Exhibit 1 I submit our very own website. VU72 proves my point in referencing what a school like Concordia Chicago says about itself -- "centered on the gospel of Jesus Christ." It doesn't matter one lick that they don't say anything about being Lutheran. What they DO say is that they are focused on Christian values. What does VU say on its website about Jesus Christ? Nothing. Zip -- at least I couldn't find anything. I haven't scoured the web site, but I'd guess you'd need a search warrant to find any reference to Christ, Christian education, Christian values, etc. Awfully strange for a school that constantly trumpets the CHAPEL OF THE RESURRECTION. In the Mission Statement part of the website there is some vague reference to the "search for truth." That is completely meaningless, just a BS line that you could find in any school, anywhere, whether it be in Valparaiso, Berkeley, New Delhi, or Hong Kong. Whose truth? The truth of Christ? Budda? George Clooney? Whose truth? So, we've reached the point where, in order not to offend Muslims, or atheists, or whatever, we choose not to even identify ourselves as a Christian institution -- while all the while marginalizing Missouri Synod Lutherans (and other Christ followers) who helped found, and build, this university. President Heckler apparently believes the only way to survive in this increasingly secular world is to water down what we supposedly believe and to pander to people of other, non-Christian faiths, or no faith at all. He is wrong. I say, embrace our Christian heritage. Reach out to Christians of all denominations. Can't be done? Just ask Wheaton or Taylor, two places that in the last 20 years have rededicated their Christ-centered mission -- and thrived. Bill Cosby said it best: "I don't know the key to success, but they key to failure is to trying to please everybody." Paul

"Valparaiso University, a community of learning dedicated to excellence and grounded in the Lutheran tradition of scholarship, freedom, and faith, prepares students to lead and serve in both church and society."
—Valparaiso University Mission Statement

[usc4valpo]

Valpo is a Lutheran school.  Valpo is a Christian school.   As for their mission, they are an independent Lutheran school.To get a degree at Valpo, you have to take 2 (in engineering) or 3 classes from the theology department.  Based on that, Valpo holds Christian ideals.  That is different from Butler and Drake.

That being said, Valpo is a very good academic school also, which is the reason I went there.  The academic experience in engineering I had at Valpo prepared me for graduate education at USC and now at MIT in systems design management.   A strong academic reputation is imperative to keep a university strong.  A school can be strong spiritually, and Valparaiso is.  But if the academic program does not cut it, you are going to have problems no matter how strong your spiritual ideals are.  And the reality at this day and age is students primarily want an education to get a job and better themselves.  You will not get a job these days because of strong religious beliefs.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

You will not get a job these days because of strong religious beliefs.

well, my pastor did.

[usc4valpo]

You will not get a job these days because of strong religious beliefs.

well, my pastor did.

Darn it, after I wrote this, I knew someone would write this!!!! Touche!

[78crusader]

Good points by everyone.

Two quick responses. First, I should not have to go down to a "sub-link" on the VU website to find a mention of Christianity IF the Christian faith is still as important and vital to VU as some say it is.

Second, usc4valpo seems to suggest that a school can have a strong commitment to the Christian faith or strong academics, but not both. Check out Wheaton and Taylor's academic profile compared to VU and then tell me what you think.

Paul

[78crusader]

One other point:

A "Lutheran tradition" does not necessarily mean a present-day commitment to higher education rooted in the Christian faith.

Paul

[vu72]

One other point:

A "Lutheran tradition" does not necessarily mean a present-day commitment to higher education rooted in the Christian faith.

Paul

My friend, you have lost touch with the Valpo reality.

[usc4valpo]

Good points by everyone. Two quick responses. First, I should not have to go down to a "sub-link" on the VU website to find a mention of Christianity IF the Christian faith is still as important and vital to VU as some say it is. Second, usc4valpo seems to suggest that a school can have a strong commitment to the Christian faith or strong academics, but not both. Check out Wheaton and Taylor's academic profile compared to VU and then tell me what you think. Paul

Whoa, I never said that.   You can have both.  Baylor is a good example.  Valpo is a good example.  I said if the academics are not up to par, the strong committment to faith will not keep you alive.  Wheaton has both, that's for sure.  Not sure about Taylor, and where is it?

[vu72]

Good points by everyone.

Two quick responses. First, I should not have to go down to a "sub-link" on the VU website to find a mention of Christianity IF the Christian faith is still as important and vital to VU as some say it is.

Second, usc4valpo seems to suggest that a school can have a strong commitment to the Christian faith or strong academics, but not both. Check out Wheaton and Taylor's academic profile compared to VU and then tell me what you think.

Paul

It is becoming very clear that you just have an ax to grind and the truth won't get in your way.  Take a look at your beloved Wheaton's website.  There isn't a big red cross starring at you upon arrival.  In fact, you can find references to their beliefs by clicking two "sub links"--"Student Life" and/or "About Wheaton".  Nothing on the main page.  Now Valpo's website is WAY different.  You have to click on two sublinks--"Student Life" and/or "About".  Under the Student Life link there is a very big "Faith" button.  Do these links lead to an attitude of exclusivity or condemnation of other beliefs?  No.  As with the LCMS positions on closed communion or exclusion of women in leadership and clergy, I suspect that is really what you would like from Valpo.  It just never existed from the beginning.

[78crusader]

More good points from VU72. 

With regard to the Wheaton website, though, you may have overlooked that on the main page, upper right hand corner, it says "For Christ and His Kingdom."  And a little further down on the main page, right side, under "Wheaton Worldwide," it says "Travel the globe to find members of the Wheaton family living for Christ and His kingdom."  That message mirrors the welcome sign as you first walk onto campus there.  So, yes, I think there IS a difference, both in attitude and focus, between a place like that and VU.  And, no, I disagree with the LCMS position on women clergy and communion.

Paul

[VULB#62]

Semi agree with Paul, but....

Probably should have the "In luce.... " motto in both Latin and English beneath our shield that has the flame of the Holy Spirit in it.  But then there is the direct link to "CHRIST COLLEGE" which is pretty unambiguous.

[agibson]

Two quick responses. First, I should not have to go down to a "sub-link" on the VU website to find a mention of Christianity IF the Christian faith is still as important and vital to VU as some say it is.

A "Lutheran tradition" does not necessarily mean a present-day commitment to higher education rooted in the Christian faith.

I think I'm OK with having to go to "About" to get this info.  To go along with a pretty decent line-up of stories in the main crawl (one on the Lutheran Deaconess Association, another on an alum working in Haiti, etc).

On the "About" page we have " independent Lutheran institution " denominational demographics, and "helping students find their own paths to lifelong personal, spiritual, and professional growth.".  That's not _so_ bad....

Under Mission and Values we get more. The Mission Statement and a sidebar with all of the faith description
http://www.valpo.edu/faith/index.php

I wonder if a sidebar is the best way to highlight that.  But it is, in a sense, pretty visible.

Paul, I wonder, are you happy with the _content_ of that Faith page?  There's a lot there, at least.  I guess you'd like it to be more prominent?  I'd have to think about it... 

I'll say that it _is_ a big piece of the university's self-conception (a big part of new faculty orientation, if nothing else! I can go more into that if people are interested).

As for the mission statement itself, I think it's not too bad.  All mission statements read a little bit the same, but we get "grounded in the Lutheran tradition of scholarship, freedom, and faith, prepares students to lead and serve in both church and society".  Not just grounded, but preparing students to lead and serve, in church and society.

I'd say that's fairly distinctive, fairly Christian, fairly Lutheran, fairly clearly not just historical, but present.

[agibson]

"CHRIST COLLEGE" which is pretty unambiguous.

Yes and no.  These days, in America, maybe noone would use it except a Christian school.

I'd imagine it was a pretty deliberate nod to similarly named colleges in the UK (Christ's College, Jesus, Corpus Christi, etc. at Cambridge, Trinity, Corpus Christi and Jesus again, etc. at Oxford).  These days, those don't have _such_ an active Christian connection (even if they sponsor frequent chapel services, etc.).  But, when they were founded they did.

So, it's probably a sort of complex reference to the history of connection (and... sometimes not) between faith and learning. 

[vu72]

More good points from VU72. 

With regard to the Wheaton website, though, you may have overlooked that on the main page, upper right hand corner, it says "For Christ and His Kingdom."  And a little further down on the main page, right side, under "Wheaton Worldwide," it says "Travel the globe to find members of the Wheaton family living for Christ and His kingdom."  That message mirrors the welcome sign as you first walk onto campus there.  So, yes, I think there IS a difference, both in attitude and focus, between a place like that and VU.  And, no, I disagree with the LCMS position on women clergy and communion.

Paul

Fair enough...Peace Brother!

[LaPorteAveApostle]

"CHRIST COLLEGE" which is pretty unambiguous

Is it, though?  It's an honors college, not a seminary, which is ambiguous in the first place.

And after all, even Christ's College, Cambridge, despite its name, bears little resemblance to "God's House" whence it was founded. (Ask Sacha Baron Cohen! :/ )

I guess what I'm getting at is the same as what we're getting at with the website:  is it "just a name" or is the name an apt descriptor?

I'm not certain, just interested in opinions.

[78crusader]

To VU72 I also say...peace brother!  I wish all VU alums were as enthusiastic and dedicated to VU as 72!

Paul

[historyman]

http://backtoluther.blogspot.com/2012/05/op-kretzmann-laughs-at-ro-1617-18-from.html

This was written by a conservative but respected LCMS blogger in May of 2012.

O.P. Kretzmann laughs at Ro. 16:17-18 (from Valparaiso U.)

It is a fearful thing to laugh at God's Word, even more so by one who claims leadership in a so-called "Lutheran" institution.  But it was the president of Valparaiso University, O.P. Kretzmann, who spoke laughingly about a passage of Scripture.  My blog post on the Timeline of The Downfall Of The LC-MS included this incident which occurred about the year 1956. This was published by Edward C. Fendt in his book The Struggle for Lutheran Unity and Consolidation in the U.S.A. from the Late 1930's to the Early 1970's. On page 199, Mr. Fendt recorded this communication with President O.P. Kretzmann:

...the continued use of Romans 16:17-18 to defend the isolationism and the multi-facted attack of the LC-MS over against other Lutherans:
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good works and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. 

I recall a conversation with O.P. Kretzmann at a time when this quotation was often hurled at the ALC. He said laughingly:
Since the ALC is minding its own business and not engaged in meddling in the Missouri Synod affairs, except in contributing liberally to the broadcast expenses of the Lutheran Hour and buying lots of books published by Concordia Publishing House, it is hard to prove that the ALC is actually 'causing divisions and offences' within the Missouri Synod.

I once told a student at Valparaiso University who wanted to know what the Missouri Synod held against the ALC that the ALC was being charged as "worshipping their own belly rather than the Lord Jesus Christ."  The student replied that in his observation the Missourians ate better and drank more than the ALC men. O.P. opined that the student had a point and that the isolationists better improve on their exegesis.

The ALC synod was the adversary that Franz Pieper spoke about in his Last Words For The Missouri Synod.  The ALC eventually merged into what is known today as the ELCA, a lost "Lutheran" American synod. But you know what?  Today's (English) LC-MS (Graebner Synod) is partially responsible for free-fall from Christian doctrine.

How clear the Romans 16 passage is!  And yet they sneered at it!  O.P. Kretzmann was thought to be a "Missourian", but alas, he was not.  Neither is today's LC-MS, which is thought by many to have "Missourian" roots.

Yes Valparaiso University, this is you.  You are not a Lutheran university, not a Christian university even though you may think you are.  Even your founding father W.H.T. Dau, a contemporary of Franz Pieper, was on shaky ground, let alone O.P. Kretzmann who laughed at God's Word.


O.P. Kretzmann was president of Valpo from 1940 to 1968. Conservatives have been flinging mud at Valpo for a long long time.

There will always be conservatives within the LCMS who speak poorly of Valpo and who even call the LCMS "un-Missourian." They will always exist and Valpo has survived many years without their approval. I say so be it. 

Also here is a history of President Dau from the Valpo website:

http://www.valpo.edu/150/history-presidents/dau.php

William H.T. Dau, 1926-1929
The Lutheran University Association had been organized and had negotiated the acquisition of Valparaiso University so late in 1925 that it was unable to name a president in time for the fall opening of the 1925-26 school year. So it was in January 1926 that Dr. William H.T. Dau, a well-known and respected clergyman-scholar, became Valparaiso University's first Lutheran president, assuming the two-fold task of refashioning the University into a truly Lutheran institution and achieving accreditation.
At the time of his appointment, Dr. Dau, who was born in Lauenburg, Pomerania, on February 8, 1864, was almost 62 years of age. He was professor of dogmatics at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, where he taught for 20 years. Prior to teaching at Concordia St. Louis, he served in the parish ministry for nearly 20 years, and was president of Concordia College, Conover, North Carolina for seven years thereafter Additionally, Dr. Dau edited the infant Lutheran Witness for four years, the official English-language periodical of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Missouri, Ohio, and other states -- now known as The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.
His wife, already an invalid, died while he was in office and his own health began failing. But in just two and a half years, before he retired in 1929, Dr. Dau succeeded in getting the University accredited and set it on a course that would establish it as an outstanding academic institution with a strong Lutheran Christian identity.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

There will always be conservatives within the LCMS who speak poorly of Valpo and who even call the LCMS "un-Missourian."

Yeah, I have to say, I find the idea of Lutherans using such a "clear" passage as Rom 16 against others...pretty amusing.

[StlVUFan]

There will always be conservatives within the LCMS who speak poorly of Valpo and who even call the LCMS "un-Missourian."

For example, WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, I think).  And there are Lutheran denominations who think WELS too liberal.  I was amused several years ago to find that there are -- today -- over 20 Lutheran denominations in North America alone.

Please don't misunderstand me: I'm not on the warpath to defend VU's authentic Lutheran status by any means.  I have no informed opinion, one way or the other.  I'm ELCA, and would hesitate to politic for the ELCA's authentic Lutheran status.

If I'm on the warpath for anything, it's honing our focus for just exactly what "authentic Lutheran identity" means.  Frankly, I'm not sold on the idea that Lutheran identity is absolutely essential, though I do get the discomfort over the disconnect between *saying* you're a Lutheran university and acting like you're not.  If this is a stumbling block for Paul (78Crusader, not the apostle!), then I sympathize -- up to a point.  What's been getting a reaction out of me on this topic is the implied "fixes" for this problem.  Again, I go back to this: There is nothing distinctive about authentic Lutheran identity.  Lutheranism started as a protest, let's remember.  Lutheran equals whatever is essential for the Christian Gospel, nothing more.  Furthermore, there is nothing heretical about offering an education environment that lives in peace with rival beliefs.  God forbid Valpo become like ORU in this particular regard.  In fact, a case could be made that being exclusive in religious emphasis in a time when the university is not under attack effectively sabotages the very tradition one is trying to uphold.  So far as I can tell, Lutheran Christians can still get Lutheran theology at Valpo sans impediment of any kind.  Am I wrong about that?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

There is nothing distinctive about authentic Lutheran identity.

richardneuhausnoddingsadly.gif

over 20 Lutheran denominations in North America alone

(caution: unKretzmanny language)
The People's Front

[agibson]

Again, I go back to this: There is nothing distinctive about authentic Lutheran identity.  Lutheranism started as a protest, let's remember.  Lutheran equals whatever is essential for the Christian Gospel, nothing more.  Furthermore, there is nothing heretical about offering an education environment that lives in peace with rival beliefs.  God forbid Valpo become like ORU in this particular regard.  In fact, a case could be made that being exclusive in religious emphasis in a time when the university is not under attack effectively sabotages the very tradition one is trying to uphold.  So far as I can tell, Lutheran Christians can still get Lutheran theology at Valpo sans impediment of any kind.  Am I wrong about that?

Schwehn (ex Dean of CC, now Provost) has argued, in the literature, something that might be along these lines.  In a piece commenting on Christian higher ed in general, and i think on Valpo in particular, he speculated (intentionally provocatively, perhaps) that it might be a very authentic thing if the culmination of Valpo's story as a Lutheran university was to effectively cease to be a Lutheran university.  That it might be somehow un-Lutheran, or otherwise inappropriate, to put up the sort of bulwarks (requirements on faculty or students, bending over backwards in recruiting, etc.) that might take, in the long-term, to maintain an active "Lutheran" footprint on campus.

At the time, I didn't read your message into what he wrote.  But, I wonder if you might be rather close to his intended mark.

[StlVUFan]

Again, I go back to this: There is nothing distinctive about authentic Lutheran identity.  Lutheranism started as a protest, let's remember.  Lutheran equals whatever is essential for the Christian Gospel, nothing more.  Furthermore, there is nothing heretical about offering an education environment that lives in peace with rival beliefs.  God forbid Valpo become like ORU in this particular regard.  In fact, a case could be made that being exclusive in religious emphasis in a time when the university is not under attack effectively sabotages the very tradition one is trying to uphold.  So far as I can tell, Lutheran Christians can still get Lutheran theology at Valpo sans impediment of any kind.  Am I wrong about that?

Schwehn (ex Dean of CC, now Provost) has argued, in the literature, something that might be along these lines.  In a piece commenting on Christian higher ed in general, and i think on Valpo in particular, he speculated (intentionally provocatively, perhaps) that it might be a very authentic thing if the culmination of Valpo's story as a Lutheran university was to effectively cease to be a Lutheran university.  That it might be somehow un-Lutheran, or otherwise inappropriate, to put up the sort of bulwarks (requirements on faculty or students, bending over backwards in recruiting, etc.) that might take, in the long-term, to maintain an active "Lutheran" footprint on campus.

At the time, I didn't read your message into what he wrote.  But, I wonder if you might be rather close to his intended mark.

Maybe so.  I don't know.

By the way, I should have put it more strongly: There *should* be nothing distinctive about Lutheran identity.  I had a Christian worship professor who led us through the exercise: what do you think is distinctively Lutheran about how we worship?  After filling the blackboard with suggestions from the class, he torpedoed almost the entire list.  He would say: it is in fact un-Lutheran to even carve out a distinctly Lutheran flavor of worship, theology, just about anything.

Not that there's anything evil about Lutherans doing things differently than other denominations, mind you.  But these are *not* what make us Lutherans to the extent that we must defend them against all criticisms.  These are simply the kind of cultural customs that naturally spring up among people inclined toward each other.

What most people would identify as Lutheran identity marks, I suspect, would fall into what the Formula of Concord called "adiaphora" (things not essential).  The only thing about these local customs that comes close to being considered essential by those documents is that they support "good order".

To put it another way, there is nothing about authentic Lutheran identity (== authentic Christian identity) that precludes finding such characteristics *even* amongst adherents to other world religions.  If I was into inter-religious dialogue, there is absolutely nothing I would refuse to compromise on (to find common ground) other than my belief in Christ as the only way to reconciliation with the Creator.  If a muslim found such belief in his/her heart and embraced it, I would not require such a person to leave their religion/culture/anything behind.  Religion is a helpful construct to make it easier for people to contemplate the divine and share that contemplation with others, but even religions are adiaphora.  It's the message alone that does or does not give people enduring spiritual identity.

Having written all that, I do sense that perhaps the person you mentioned was making very much the same point.

[agibson]

To put it another way, there is nothing about authentic Lutheran identity (== authentic Christian identity)

Reading your nice piece, I do wonder if your C-style logical equality here (==) is important.  It's absolutely important (even if, admittedly, not all members of Lutheran denominations may agree on this) to remember that there's no "Lutheran" requirement to look and act like "Lutherans".  A lot of the "core" values we might be concerned with are just part of what it means to be Christian.

I think we could well consider to what extent, and in what way, VU should reflect its Christian identity.

But, we might also reasonably reflect on to what extent, and in what way, VU should reflect its distinctively Lutheran identity, the extra trappings that _are_ distinctively Lutheran.  Even if much of that stuff is, admittedly, cultural and historical adiaphora, I think there's still a lot of fun stuff there, a lot of good stuff.  Even if there's no requirement that Lutheran worship look like Lutheran worship, I think that we get a lot of things "right" and there are practices worth lifting up, etc.