Tough luck for BU

[vu72]

VU needs more of this since I have been told by folks in Admissions that there are kids in southern Indiana, only 3 hours away, who have never heard of VU.

Heck, there are kids in southwest Indianapolis that continually say "Valparaiso who?"  I talked to a kid who attends Bishop Roncalli, the other day, and he had no idea that Valpo was in Indiana and this was a 4.0 gpa student.

Don't be too shocked.  These kids are still focused on texting and you can't really understand what's out there academically when your interests are so limited.  I've done lots of college fairs and many kids may have heard the name but that is where it ends.  Think about it, do you think they would know anything about, say, Brown or Rice or, brown rice for that matter?? 

[atkins]

That is surprising to hear, as just about everywhere I go in area, someone has heard of Valpo if they follow college sports.  This has happened to me so frequently whenever I mention that I did my undergrad at VU, that it has actually gotten old lol.  Maybe it is because I speak with people my age and older, whereas these younger kids haven't heard of 'The shot.'

Most businesspeople and professionals I've met from outside of the Midwest, and with whom I've discussed the matter, know Valpo from "The Shot."  Very few of them knew Valpo is located in Indiana, is a Lutheran-affiliated institution, or has outstanding academic programs.  Valpo's reputation is nowhere near where it should be, but the vibrant leadership of the current administration is making up for lost time, as it must in light of the precipitous demographic and economic cliff toward which small private institutions are driving.  Lutheranism stresses the importance of faith, and I have faith we're moving in the correct direction, but we have a long way to go.

[vu72]

Well it is over for the Dogs.  After two nice wins (pounding poor old DePaul and beating Seton Hall by 17 last Saturday, they lose to Seton Hall by 1 in the first round of their tourney. Given our wins over Milwaukee during the season and then falling on our faces in the tourney, I can relate to their fans disappointment.

[valpo64]

Boo-hoo........I'm crying in my beer as I toast their season of success in THE BIG EAST.  Love it.  Sorry, I couldn't help myself.  Things are looking up for them as they just got a commitment from a 2 star 5-9 point guard.  Wow!  That's a big time recruit for a big time program and conference affiliation.

[a3uge]

Boo-hoo........I'm crying in my beer as I toast their season of success in THE BIG EAST.  Love it.  Sorry, I couldn't help myself.  Things are looking up for them as they just got a commitment from a 2 star 5-9 point guard.  Wow!  That's a big time recruit for a big time program and conference affiliation.

5-9? That's remarkable... What's his name?

[vu72]

Boo-hoo........I'm crying in my beer as I toast their season of success in THE BIG EAST.  Love it.  Sorry, I couldn't help myself.  Things are looking up for them as they just got a commitment from a 2 star 5-9 point guard.  Wow!  That's a big time recruit for a big time program and conference affiliation.

5-9? That's remarkable... What's his name?

Well, being a two star is one thing, but being 5'9 isn't a bad thing in and of itself.  Think Keifer Sykes or even Jordan Aaron or perhaps Eric Buggs?  If any of them are really 5'10" or taller I'd be surprised.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

yeah, but we can assume 1-2" inflation across the board...he's not really even 5-9 then, is he?

[FWalum]

I have a name for you, not one you are going to see much on the Internet, Cameron Leshore.  Leshore has perhaps the best hops I have seen in person for his height.  He is a 5'6" senior guard at Fort Wayne's Wayne High School and for example, in a game against Concordia Lutheran High School, Wayne ran a set for him designed as an alley-oop which he put down 2 handed from well above the rim and promptly got a T for doing a chin-up.  The crowd went wild even though it was a Concordia home game. 5'9" ? cripes that kid has 3 inches on Leshore...

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Used to start fights with Bulls fans back in the day by suggesting that if Muggsy or Spud were a foot taller, they'd be better than Jordan--because they were already THAT good in spite of their dearth of height.

As a 5'7"-5'8" guy, I have nothing but love for these guys sprinting amidst the trees.

[valporun]

The best point guard in the MVC, Fred Van Vleet, is only 5'11", but plays bigger than he looks, so can't say that plays smaller than 6' are terrible. I mean he won the Larry Bird award over a couple of taller teammates.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I mean he won the Larry Bird award over a couple of taller teammates

he out jumped them?

[zvillehaze]

Boo-hoo........I'm crying in my beer as I toast their season of success in THE BIG EAST.  Love it.  Sorry, I couldn't help myself.  Things are looking up for them as they just got a commitment from a 2 star 5-9 point guard.  Wow!  That's a big time recruit for a big time program and conference affiliation.

Butler has fallen so far off the radar that this commitment has been reported nowhere else on the internet.  Good thing I visited here to get the scoop!   

[LaPorteAveApostle]

you must not've checked Rivals' special Hobbit site

[valporun]

LAA, the kid can see over the top of 6'5" guards to find his 6'7" teammates back door for easy layups, which they happen to make consistently.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

[wh]

From a current discussion on the Detroit board:

Re: How Is Butler's Move to Big East Working Out?
Postby NC Titan » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:20 pm

It's true that Butler is cashing in on the bigger tournament paycheck, and it's true that they are not the marquee team in their conference anymore. So you have to weigh why a school has an athletic program. Are they playing for glory, or are they playing to reap some cash for the school to improve it's physical plant. And while many of the students and faculty probably appreciate the benefits, one has to wonder if that will motivate:e the coaches and the athletes -- and whether prospective athletes will subordinate their personal goals for that "greater good." Would Howard and Haywood have gone to Butler to battle for eighth place? Would Rotnei Clarke have transferred to Butler to play on a doormat team?

I think this is an excellent response to the few who try to defend Butler's move despite the disastrous results by claiming they are "laughing all the way to the bank."  I don't recall having read any fan comments saying, "Yeah, we went from one of America's best feel-good sports stories and sports media darlings to a bottom feeder in the Big East, practically overnight, but I'm happy that the athletic department is making more money."   I would also bet that their President and Board of Trustees have to be praying that they didn't unwittingly trade their school's coveted basketball image and reputation for a pay check.       

[milanmiracle]

I think this is an excellent response to the few who try to defend Butler's move despite the disastrous results by claiming they are "laughing all the way to the bank."  I don't recall having read any fan comments saying, "Yeah, we went from one of America's best feel-good sports stories and sports media darlings to a bottom feeder in the Big East, practically overnight, but I'm happy that the athletic department is making more money."   I would also bet that their President and Board of Trustees have to be praying that they didn't unwittingly trade their school's coveted basketball image and reputation for a pay check.       

As an Indianapolis resident, and somebody who knows quite a few alumni and administrators at Butler, they are all very pleased with the move to the Big East and what the future holds for Butler as an institution. I can't speak for everybody at Butler of course but of the people I know and interact with, they're very happy.

I think the attendance numbers speak for themselves

17th biggest increase in attendance from 6,599 to 7,899

58th overall in D1 attendance ahead of schools like LSU, Oregon, Georgia Tech, St. Johns, Baylor, Seton Hall, Georgia and Gonzaga just to name a few.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdf

It's not hard to believe that a city such as Indianapolis would be more interested in seeing teams like Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, St. Johns, Xavier and Vanderbilt vs. Wisconsin - Green Bay, Oakland, and Youngstown State. Hmm...

[bbtds]

I would have to agree. The perception in Indy is quite different than outside the Indy area. Most Butler fans, though I detest them, believe Butler will be back simply because they have some kind of magic formula. They are not at all happy that the team is losing and they are much quieter in public settings these days but true to form they usually just say wait till things change in the Big East and wait till we get the right recruits. The fans feel the money that Butler has been able to invest in their athletic dept as a whole will make all of their sports programs better and their men's bb program is destined to return to prominence. It's like when children believe in the tooth fairy and by staying on track Butler will get to the promised land. 

I like reading this board a lot better than talking to any Butler fans on the street or other public places.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I like reading this board a lot better than talking to any Butler fans on the street or other public places.

Amen, except replace "Butler fans on the street" with "other people in general". 

I have only so much time so I had to decide between here and Facebook in May of 2012.  You know the rest

[milanmiracle]

I would have to agree. The perception in Indy is quite different than outside the Indy area. Most Butler fans, though I detest them, believe Butler will be back simply because they have some kind of magic formula. They are not at all happy that the team is losing and they are much quieter in public settings these days but true to form they usually just say wait till things change in the Big East and wait till we get the right recruits. The fans feel the money that Butler has been able to invest in their athletic dept as a whole will make all of their sports programs better and their men's bb program is destined to return to prominence. It's like when children believe in the tooth fairy and by staying on track Butler will get to the promised land. 

I like reading this board a lot better than talking to any Butler fans on the street or other public places.

I am not sure exactly sure where they'll end up in the food chain, but I suspect the middle of the pack in the Big East is about the worst they'll end up. They have a lot of things going for them as a basketball program that many do not have.

#1) Hinkle Fieldhouse - Historic and not a bad place as it sits today. It's also undergoing extensive renovations. $34 million dollars worth to give a ballpark

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/05/20/hinkle-fieldhouse-renovations-costing-34-million-to-be-finished/2343325/

#2) Supportive administration, alumni and board - In addition to being supportive, they also have the financial backing to do what they're doing.

#3a) Indianapolis - Being in a major market is a huge factor in their ability to sustain success (see Valpo and the MVC as to why that matters)

#3b) Indianapolis - The Indianapolis metropolitan area has put out some fantastic talent in the last 10-15 years. Because they are now in the Big East playing the likes of Georgetown & Villanova, you have a chance of keeping the in state/city kids home vs. going to Michigan State, Michigan or IU. They'll still get the primary 5 star recruits, but I think you'll see an upswing IF Brandon Miller can put together a decent season or two.

#5) Fan base - The previous post illustrates the attendance. While losing this year will hurt it some, being in the top 60 overall and having sold out games will not hurt recruiting or the local interest.

[vu72]

I agree with all of miracle's thought on this.  Butler SHOULD be able to get back to a much better position in their conference.  What should be a primary concern is the fact that "the Butler way" isn't functioning as it once did.  In years past their fans were quick to point out how kids came to Butler and stayed for four years. No need for transfers or jc kids.  Their bright and talented players, couple with their "all for the good of the team" theme would work.

So then things changed and in more ways then one.  Clark transfers in as a temporary savior.  Hopkins get suspended and leaves the team.  Current "stars" like Rosevelt Jones are suspended for violating team rules.  Players viewed as top notch recruits are coming and going quickly.  Their team next year will be very different from this last one.  They have hired a coach with no D-1 coaching experience unlike what any other Big East school would consider.  Some fans are calling for Miller's head, as well as Collier's. 

Not to say that they can't get it turned around but they are dealing with stuff not seen down there for a long time.

[zvillehaze]

Not to say that they can't get it turned around but they are dealing with stuff not seen down there for a long time.

As usual, fair comments from vu72.  The observations you make are shared by many Butler fans.  The suspensions and apparent lack of maturity on the team was indeed troubling.  Hopefully those problems have been weeded out, but who knows.  Butler did survive a similar season in '05 and was able to turn things around and get to the '07 Sweet Sixteen.

Their team next year will be very different from this last one.

I definitely hope they play different, but they'll still have plenty of familar faces.  They'll return 5 of their 7 man rotation (4 starters) and return Roosevelt Jones from injury.  Losing Marshall to graduation hurts, but the guys transferring really didn't play once the conference season started (although I noted elsewhere that Berry will be a good player for someone and is a loss to the program).  What Miller can do with those available scholarships may be the key.