Sports Arena for Porter County

[a3uge]

Others that (at least in my view) have had problems with off-campus arenas would include USC, Miami (FL) and UW-Milwaukee (though Miami had more attendance with a top team last year).  Marquette would seem to be an exception.

I think comparing urban campuses in large cities is a bit different. UWM actually moved on-campus last year. It was such a horrible move that they're playing back off-campus.


I think with a smaller school like Valpo in a smaller town without nearly as many alums in the area, it makes sense to have your arena on campus. Moving it 15 minutes in a slightly more populated area will do nothing to help attendance. People in Chesterton that aren't going to games now, probably won't go to games if the arena is across the street from them. People in Valpo are more likely to stroll over to a game (students, faculty) that wouldn't be as likely to attend a game 15 minutes away in Chesterton.

[Pgmado]

Marquette plays at the Bradley Center and students bus to the games (about a mile from campus). Matter of fact, if you have a ticket stub for the game, you get a $1 pitcher at Murphy's after the game. Nothing greater than taking the bus from campus to a game and then getting sloshed with all your friends after a win.

[wh]

Seeing how tough it is to fill a 5,000-seat gym to the point where it doesn't look half empty, I can't imagine the university would be interested in an arena half the size. The place would be a graveyard on most HL or other game days. This arena would likely be home to a major junior hockey league team, and might play host to the local Purdue directional campus teams and things like that.
And don't be so quick to dismiss the idea of major artists playing a 9,000 seat arena on the southern shore of Lake Michigan. Booking agents love to book shows that are between major tour stops like Chicago and Detroit, or Milwaukee an INdy

There is a concept relative to seating capacity commonly referred to as the "80% rule."  Basically, it says that once average attendance reaches 80% of seating capacity, it is time to expand, relocate, or build a larger venue.  The same rule applies to adding church services, as another example.  The theory is that attendees expect a certain level of comfort, visibility, personal service, etc. that is compromised when attendance rises above 80% of capacity.  Thus, 80% becomes the tipping point whereby if changes are not made, interest begins to wane, the growth trend reverses, and attendance declines.  Consistent with the 80% rule, the tipping point for the ARC becomes 4000 not 5000.  It also says that simply revamping the ARC but keeping the seating capacity the same would be a strategic blunder.  At a minimum a new or revamped venue should have a seating capacity of 6000, or 20% > present.     

[agibson]

The same rule applies to adding church services, as another example.

Makes me wonder if the effect of "big games" on the average is quantitatively similar to the effect of Easter, Christmas, etc.  It might be!

[78crusader]

This thread is pointless. I've been told that VU will not consider playing its home games anywhere off campus.

Paul

[a3uge]

This thread is pointless. I've been told that VU will not consider playing its home games anywhere off campus.

Paul

In the scheme of things, every thread is pointless.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

every thread is pointless

just those not attached to a needle, anyway

EDIT:  looking back, this was my 2000th post.  i had wanted (a while ago) to have something more meaningful as it...but...I suppose this is actually about par for my course.

[crusaderjoe]

Someone should get on the phone at VU and ask the folks over at Fairfield University whether or not playing their home games at the off campus 10K Webster Bank Arena at Harbor Yard is hurting their basketball program.  I think Fairfield at least hosted an NIT game with that facility.  The ARC could never do that.  Fairfield could be a good mini case study for this situation.

That said, while I understand the concerns, I'm not sure why we're being so quick to dismiss this concept as a potential avenue and viable alternative to VU's current arena situation.  I mean the first shovel of dirt hasn't even been thrown yet and we're already blue penciling and writing this project off because of student attendance issues or distance from campus.  I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I would want to at least initially explore any potential option that will get Valpo out of its current hot garbage facility as quickly as possible.  If this is the means to do it, so be it.  Is Valpo going to make Bryce wait for an arena renovation capital campaign like they did with his father?  If the answer is yes, then why are we quickly dismissing this?

How many corporate or luxury boxes are envisioned within this project?  That I'd like to know.

[wh]

Someone should get on the phone at VU and ask the folks over at Fairfield University whether or not playing their home games at the off campus 10K Webster Bank Arena at Harbor Yard is hurting their basketball program.  I think Fairfield at least hosted an NIT game with that facility.  The ARC could never do that.  Fairfield could be a good mini case study for this situation.

That said, while I understand the concerns, I'm not sure why we're being so quick to dismiss this concept as a potential avenue and viable alternative to VU's current arena situation.  I mean the first shovel of dirt hasn't even been thrown yet and we're already blue penciling and writing this project off because of student attendance issues or distance from campus.  I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I would want to at least initially explore any potential option that will get Valpo out of its current hot garbage facility as quickly as possible.  If this is the means to do it, so be it.  Is Valpo going to make Bryce wait for an arena renovation capital campaign like they did with his father?  If the answer is yes, then why are we quickly dismissing this?

How many corporate or luxury boxes are envisioned within this project?  That I'd like to know.

I completely agree with everything you said.  Just because the men's basketball program happens to be doing well at the moment in no way diminishes the fact that we are still living on borrowed time relative to facilities and our ability to remain competitive over the long term.  There is no way we can maintain the status quo and remain competitive, plus we are still in the "all talk no action" stage for an ARC "makeover."  If you can't afford to buy your own home, what's wrong with living in a nice "rental" until you can?

[bbtds]

Someone should get on the phone at VU and ask the folks over at Fairfield University whether or not playing their home games at the off campus 10K Webster Bank Arena at Harbor Yard is hurting their basketball program.  I think Fairfield at least hosted an NIT game with that facility.  The ARC could never do that.  Fairfield could be a good mini case study for this situation.

That said, while I understand the concerns, I'm not sure why we're being so quick to dismiss this concept as a potential avenue and viable alternative to VU's current arena situation.  I mean the first shovel of dirt hasn't even been thrown yet and we're already blue penciling and writing this project off because of student attendance issues or distance from campus.  I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I would want to at least initially explore any potential option that will get Valpo out of its current hot garbage facility as quickly as possible.  If this is the means to do it, so be it.  Is Valpo going to make Bryce wait for an arena renovation capital campaign like they did with his father?  If the answer is yes, then why are we quickly dismissing this?

How many corporate or luxury boxes are envisioned within this project?  That I'd like to know.

I completely agree with everything you said.  Just because the men's basketball program happens to be doing well at the moment in no way diminishes the fact that we are still living on borrowed time relative to facilities and our ability to remain competitive over the long term.  There is no way we can maintain the status quo and remain competitive, plus we are still in the "all talk no action" stage for an ARC "makeover."  If you can't afford to buy your own home, what's wrong with living in a nice "rental" until you can?

I left a post on Fairfield's message board asking about how they felt about playing in an off campus arena.

[zvillehaze]

I left a post on Fairfield's message board asking about how they felt about playing in an off campus arena.

I think that Jimmy L. did a lot of research regarding Milwaukee's on-campus/off-campus arena decision and could probably offer the main pros and cons.  The key difference is that the ARC is a better facility than the Klotsche Center, so Valpo isn't in a position where they need a new facility immediately.

Another school to look at would be Evansville.  FWalum might provide more information, but they seem to be drawing ok with an arena that's 4 or 5 miles off campus.  As I've stated, the Ford Center is extremely nice for a program like UE. 

Another situation to watch is IUPUI, who will be moving games off-campus starting next year ('14-'15).  May not be similar because a majority of IUPUI students live off-campus, but is still something to watch. 

I agree with wh that no doors should be closed just yet ... but knowing a location would be helpful.

[usc4valpo]

The question was asked "why is everyone against Valpo using an off-campus arena?". It's not that students are lazy...its that any person (student or otherwise) is going to make a cost-benefit tradeoff when going to an event. Even if your dollar cost is zero (which I think it is for students at Valpo), they still have to invest the time versus school work or other activities. If students live on or near campus, it is a short walk and the total time devoted to the game would be about 2 1/2 hours. Add getting to the bus, bus travel time (both ways), etc. and the time could go up to 4 hours. Additionally, you now have to figure in that something could go wrong (i.e the student does not control the bus where they do control walking to and from the game. Some students will make the choice not to devote the extra 1 1/2 hours - no matter what the marketing is from the athletic department. With some students making the choice not to go, student attendance will go down and thus the environment will significantly degrade. This has to be avoided. Additionally, I would argue that when the team plays on campus there is a greater sense of ownership of the team compared to it playing 15-30 minutes away. Students feel they own the team more when the stadium is part of their environment. DePaul is the classic case where I believe this has happened. Of course you could argue that if DePaul were a Top 20 team that there would be more student interest - but there would be more interest regardless. Others that (at least in my view) have had problems with off-campus arenas would include USC, Miami (FL) and UW-Milwaukee (though Miami had more attendance with a top team last year). Marquette would seem to be an exception. I am just fearful that someone might rationalize that moving to a Duneland Arena would put Valpo into a new bigger stadium at a low university cost and that people will just come. They won't (unless this is a top team year in and year out - at a level it has never really consistently been at). Valpo basketball is far better in the ARC unless a new stadium is built on or right next to campus.

Just to get the facts straight, as a USC graduate (and Valpo):
USC played at the "white elephant" LA Sports Arena for awhile in Exposition Park.  It is about a 10 to 15 minute walk from campus to the Arena. As a hoops nut, I used to go to many games and be part of the 3000 in attendance (close to sellout for UCLA, 7 to 8 thousand for Arizona). The problem with USC basketball is not location.  They just built a new arena within campus property.  The problem is the entertainment options you have in LA and that most people do not want to spend time watching a mediocre team in a rough part of town.  It's unfortunate, they have a beautiful new arena and Pac 12 competition is pretty good.

[bbtds]

Here are the responses I got on the Fairfield Stags message board. http://fairfieldstags.proboards.com/board/1/men-basketball

Others will have far more detailed thoughts...

I think student attendance and interest is mildly, very mildly hurt by the arena being off campus... but understand, it isn't very high - regardless. My guess is the negative impact is slightly offset by a small bump in community attendance.

There is a lot of angst on this board about FU attendance... but I think the arena is probably pretty low on the list of reasons why we don't see 4k+ and 500 students per game.

In a nutshell and in the order you asked;

1: YES. terribly so. any game in our on campus facility finds a student section 3/4 to 100% full. Our off campus facility sees a bunch of empty sections. Doesnt matter who we are playing. A game on campus draws kids, even if its a part of the kids pre-game, have few drinks and get rowdy at the game, whereas this never occurs at our off campus facility.

2: There are school buses (used to be coach buses) that run every fifteen minutes from the center of campus to the arena and back

3: Marginally so? The on campus games find a sold out crowd from locals and fairfield die hards, the same ones that go to the off campus facility. The off campus facility may find more stragglers or groups, but only slightly so

4: From what I can tell, Id say 80% are empty for fairfield games. One is occupied by the university. They simply dont add to attendance

Again, if Fairfield put a string of NCAA appearances and won a game or two in the tournament, there would be plenty of students. The last time the Stags were in the tournament, most of the students in the current freshman class weren't even 2 years old.

One of the biggest issues of the off-campus Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport (5.3 miles away up I-95) is that it is a facility built around a hockey rink. This prevents the fans from getting close to the action. Management has tried to address the problem with moving the court and putting up curtains to block off almost half the arena but at the end of the day it is still a multi purpose hockey arena and not a basketball facility.

www.websterbankarena.com/

An off campus arena will reduce student attendance if your team is no good, or you are playing in a meaningless game against a poor team. Students are fickle and they don't show. If your team is a consistent winner, always playing games with 1st place considerations, and make it to the NCAA Toureney every few years, then there is no issue, the students will show in good numbers.

As far as attracting the community, an off campus arena helps with the attendance. In our case, the Webster Bank Arena is a much better facility than our on-campus gym facility, so our attendance is generally higher.

Bottom line is if the team is winning and playing important games then the off-campus arena is great, attendance is high, and the program looks like a big time program, which attracts recruits, fans, better coaches, and more coprporate sponsors. But if your team is not good, then the arena seems empty and there are no students. So expect big variation in attendance:

Big Game in Arena 3,500-5,500
Unimportant game in Arena 1,500-2,000
On Campus Gym 1,700 - 2,200

Overall the biggest benefit of moving off campus to a nicer arena is that our program went from the bottom of the MAAC to the top of the MAAC. We attract better recruits, better coaches, program has won more games, and has put is in a position to be considerded to move up to more attractive leagues. Playing in our on-campus gym makes us look small time, (HS level), and stagnates the program. The big difference is that an arena makes a big difference if its off-campus or on-campus.

I think the off campus arena (WBA) has helped the FFld. recruiting process signifcantly. This is mostly because alumni hall (on -campus)is sub -standard venue today for division-1 sports and is a negative for recruitng. The crowds we get at WBA will be what they are only around 2-3K becuse it is MAAC basketball which is not generally attractive to the general public or to our students.

The pro of playing at WBA is obviously that it's a state of the art, modern arena, the kind we could never build on campus. Our local town zoning board will not allow us to build a new on-campus arena unless it's very small, so we were sort of forced to move off campus. It's neat to play in a professional arena with bars, restaurants, huge video boards, it feels very big time.

The con of playing at WBA is that students won't show up. One reason is because we're not playing well right now; also, the buses that take students to the games used to have a notorious reputation for not being on time or leaving kids stranded after games. I don't know if those issues have been resolved.

However, I"m not sure Fairfield is a relevant gauge of whether a school like Valpo would benefit from an off campus arena. Our students & alums are just not into basketball the way schools like Valpo, Xavier and Dayton are. For example, Siena also plays off campus and its been a great success for them.

I think for an Arena to be successful, it has to be in more of a destination area than the WBA. People go the events but (with limited exception)don't come early to or stay late in the area. It has a great transporation infrastructure but not much else in it's immediate surrounding area. I don't know if we truly have any one who walks to the arena from their homes/apartments.

It has a great transporation infrastructure but not much else in it's immediate surrounding area. I don't know if we truly have any one who walks to the arena from their homes/apartments.....

IMO, the local community is never going to come out in great numbers for MAAC Basketball no matter how successful the program is regardless if it is a meaningful MAAC game. Whatever increase in attendance at the WBA is going to come from our alumni and students. Otherwise it will be the 1,500 to 2,000 average on game days. AR/Development needs to get on the same page with Athletics especially by giving Athletics the alumni contact information that is needed to reach out to all our fellow alums within traveling distance of the WBA and it's Stag Club. Stag Basketball and MAAC Basketball just does not have the "entertainment" factor to create interest and demand unless the Stags are playing a name opponent. The Bridgeport market is not the same as the Capital District market in Albany where Siena has been very successful with the non-Siena connected fans and the business community.

My "walk to" comment wasn't just directed at FU sports at the arena - I don't think there are many that would or could walk to any event at the arena. Roads, parking, the harbor and 9-5 businesses take up a good chunk of the immediate area.

Check out the Mohegan Sun Arena (Uncasville, CT) "upcoming events" page and the WBA (Bridgeport, CT) "upcoming events". Both are 10,000 seat concert/basketball facilities and are 72 miles apart but one is a destination and the other is Bridgeport:

www.mohegansun.com/entertainment/arena.html

www.websterbankarena.com/Schedule.dbml?&&&DB_OEM_ID=26700&SPID=91995&Q_SEASON=2012

Here were my questions:
Do you think student attendance and interest is hurt by the arena being off campus?

What arrangements have been made to get students to the games?

Do you feel you get more turn out from the general community at the off campus arena than an on campus arena?

How much do the premium seating suites add to attendance?

[bbtds]

I have now asked those same questions on the Siena Proboards message board.

[valpofan11]

If the arena is built, it's gonna most likely go in the once prominently and nationally recognized Coffee Creek Center on the outskirts of Chesterton in Liberty Township, which has been pretty stagnant in development since it got an article in Time Magazine in the 1990s, though Coffee Creek just got Urschel Labratories (food processing equipment) to relocate there. This location makes the most sense cause it's near I80-90 and I94. I bet we would use the Duneland arena for big non-conference home games. Another sleeper for an area that VU could develop on its own is the old "eyesore" 3D store on the northeast corner of Roosevelt and Licolnway. I bet that will become a sports/campus use facility, but not a 9,000 seat arena. The old hospital is an area that VU will use for athletic facilities most likely use, but they gotta first do the chemical/asbestos check/cleanup before VU takes full control of the 12 acre site. We could use this for a bigger arena. Both the 3D and the old hospital are within walking distance and are possible areas for a new ARC.

[FWalum]

Another school to look at would be Evansville.  FWalum might provide more information, but they seem to be drawing ok with an arena that's 4 or 5 miles off campus.  As I've stated, the Ford Center is extremely nice for a program like UE.

UE basketball is somewhat unique because it is much more of a community team than most programs.  UE has played off campus since 1957, first at Robert's Stadium and now at Ford (Roberts actually had more seating capacity than Ford).  Evansville hosted the DII National Championships for around 20 years and during the 50's, 60's and early 70's, won the DII title 6 times.  I think the "77" tragedy was also a galvanizing event between the team and community.  When I was involved with UE they were very concerned that attendance at games had dropped from around 10,000 in the early-mid 90's to around 6,000 after the new millennium.  Bringing back Marty Simmons as coach and the move to the Ford Center has helped reverse that trend somewhat along with their increased competetiveness, playing in the MVC certainly also helps along with a certain player named Colt Ryan.  Because they have played off campus for so long I don't know that we can really compare them to VU's situation.

[bbtds]

Another school to look at would be Evansville.  FWalum might provide more information, but they seem to be drawing ok with an arena that's 4 or 5 miles off campus.  As I've stated, the Ford Center is extremely nice for a program like UE.

UE basketball is somewhat unique because it is much more of a community team than most programs.  UE has played off campus since 1957, first at Robert's Stadium and now at Ford (Roberts actually had more seating capacity than Ford).  Evansville hosted the DII National Championships for around 20 years and during the 50's, 60's and early 70's, won the DII title 6 times.  I think the "77" tragedy was also a galvanizing event between the team and community.  When I was involved with UE they were very concerned that attendance at games had dropped from around 10,000 in the early-mid 90's to around 6,000 after the new millennium.  Bringing back Marty Simmons as coach and the move to the Ford Center has helped reverse that trend somewhat along with their increased competetiveness, playing in the MVC certainly also helps along with a certain player named Colt Ryan.  Because they have played off campus for so long I don't know that we can really compare them to VU's situation.

Isn't the biggest issue for UE is that they are land locked in the central part of the city south of the Lloyd Expressway? If UE wants to expand their enrollment or build any significant buildings without tearing down any buildings they probably would have to move the whole campus to another location. Maybe on the north end of the city towards the airport or even further north. Butler had to do that in Indy from a more central location to further north in the early 1900's in order to expand.

[cornonthe]

OK...I'm going to get involved here...I didn't see anyone mention anything about what I'm going to say here. The group that I was involved with a few years ago were planning on building an arena complex at the corner of 49 and 2 in Valparaiso...at Eastport Center(I think that's the name of the development). We would have used the existing dome and build a bigger monolithic dome right next to it. It was very cost effecting to build a dome facility and it would have also served as an official disaster shelter(for tornado safety). The site hinged on the property just to the west being available, which it wasn't at the time. We would have bought land and existing buildings just to the south east as well. We never got past our funding issues...we weren't going to ask for state, county, city or university money...totally privately funded. The seating that this group is talking about is the exact seating capacity that we were talking about. We did do market research and we found that people would drive that far south of the expressways to see sports and concerts. Here's the stuff that's interesting...we had someone in our group that was associated with someone in the NBA. There was definite interest in placing an NBA D-League team in NW Indiana. In addition to that, there was interest from a actual NBA team in making NW Indiana their NBA D-League home...probably the Pacers, but we were never sure. We were also contacted by an AHL team about relocating there from their current old arena. What I'm saying is that VU isn't the only choice when choosing an anchor tenant or two. AS for VU playing there, they could for big games...or all of their games for that matter...the students could always be bussed in...I just hope that they go with our monolithic dome design...

[bbtds]

Since you brought this back up I remembered to check out the answers I got on the Siena message board http://sienahoops.com/board/2/sienahoop. 

1. Yes-- student attendance and atmosphere is the #1 concern--- plus the arena is too big to fill to capacity. YOur 9,000 seat arena should be small enough to address this but student turnout will be a struggle.

2. Buses are provided. Some students complain about long wait times and standing in the cold.

3. Yes-- several thousand more attend the games on a regular basis than possible at our on campus facility. Crowds of over 10,000 occur with the annual rivalry game and for big time opponents when Siena is doing well--

4. Premium seating doesn't add much attendance but adds revenue-- also coroporate advertising is greater at the arena.

For the student it's not so great. For the program it has taken Siena to another level. The size of your arena [the proposed 9,000 seat arena] may be the perfect compromise.

I don't think student *interest* is hurt. It can make the logistics a little harder sometimes, but going downtown for a big-time atmosphere is a fun thing to do. A lot of upperclassmen will stay downtown after a game and go out. In years past, the student fan club used to run pre-game events at a bar near the arena (that didn't really work out with the whole drinking age thing). The buses bring students back and forth for free. The students are given the floor seats under the basket and the end-court seats behind those.

The school makes quite a bit of money from premium seating. Not so much the box seats as the seating closer to the court. Donors to the Saints Alive program get first choice on season ticket locations, which of course encourages participation in Saints Alive.

Arenas tend to have more concession stand options than on-campus facilities, which is a nice thing for the fans.

The arena is NOT too big to fill to capacity. The Times Union Center was not built for basketball, so it is harder to sell some seats, but it can and will be done in the right circumstances. Valpo, being in Indiana (and the midwest in general) probably needs more than 9,000 off campus. Look at attendance in the Missouri Valley Conference and the Horizon League, and how Bryce Drew has Valpo rolling. They will be the next mid-major power.

Not sure on the specifics of whether Valpo serves beer at the current on campus arena but with an off campus arena they certainly could and that will boost attendance as well as concession revenue. The biggest problem, as others have stated, is getting the students to the games. But taking the games off campus will absolutely make the team feel less like the school's team and more like the city's team and that will draw a lot of non-alumni support.

[bbtds]

I think the biggest things I got from the Fairfield and Siena message boards was that student attendance might be hurt but that COULD (and I emphasize "could") be offset by bigger non-alumni/community attendance and it would very much help with recruiting because you could show the recruits a better facility. The need for a better facility has been a long, reoccurring theme on this board.   

[LaPorteAveApostle]

corn--muy interesante, gracias...

[LaPorteAveApostle]

On the first page of a Google search for us, this 'articlette' is found.

Thought I would close the self-referential circle:
http://dunelandsports.org/valpo-fanzone-blog-discusses-duneland-arena/

[atkins]

Isn't the unspoken reason that students are too lazy to get off their duff to get to the games? Couldn't the athletic dept get that mindset changed?

Your point is well-taken, historyman.  However, I think you're overestimating the willingness of today's college students to exert effort in support of Valpo athletics (or much else, frankly).  Convenience is preeminent in the minds of college students. ( I'm beginning to sound like an old codger at the age of forty-five.)

The arena would be a nice addition, but I don't see it being a success.  Basically, it will be a suburban arena, and several of the wise posters above have pointed out the challenges that such a facility will inevitably face.   

[wh]

Here is a followup story from January in the NWI Business Quarterly Magazine.  It was still full speed ahead at that time:

http://www.nwibq.com/business/economic-development/green-arena/

Boardman, a 1983 Valparaiso University graduate, says he has been engaged with local, state and national academic, government and corporate research facilities. This includes learning from Valparaiso University's experience in launching LEED technology and solar technology on its campus. "Valparaiso University is a national leader with one of five solar research labs in the country," he says. The university also has the only LEED Platinum academic building in Indiana.

With a location in mind, Boardman tentatively hopes to commence construction of Duneland Arena in 2015, with the project generating about 250 construction jobs. He hopes the venue would open sometime in 2016.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss this...

[wh]

1. An interesting, related article from the NWI Times from July of last year:

VALPARAISO | The newly formed Porter County Sports Cabinet is continuing to gather information for an amateur sports and recreation facilities study.
The group, which includes officials with Indiana Dunes Tourism, the Porter County Plan Commission, Valparaiso Parks Department and Valparaiso University, met Thursday in VU's Harre Union.

Interestingly, this article is also posted in Bordman's business website dunelandsports.org

2. Also on Bordman's website is a picture and description of what this new facility would look like.

http://dunelandsports.org/duneland-arena/

Note the capacities:

Concerts: 5,300 (half-house)
6,400 (3/4 house)
7,790 (End-stage)
10,350 (center-stage)
Basketball: 9,000
Ice Hockey: 8,400 (9,200 with standing room)

It appears that it may be modeled after the Richmond Olympic Oval in Richmond, BC:

http://richmondoval.ca/default.aspx

3. One of the articles mentions the Porter County Expo Center as the site they're looking at.  The Expo Center is only 2.9 miles and 5 minutes from Valparaiso University. Yeah I know, it's not walking distance for VU students. Unless someone has millions of dollars to make a new or revamped ARC a reality in our lifetimes, a fantastic first class facility 2.9 miles away that would be the envy of the HL, the MVC, and a lot of other places sounds like a great consolation prize to me.  I hope it happens.