Sports Arena for Porter County

[a3uge]

I still can't imagine this happening. Typically arenas this size can only be built with some form of public funding as virtually all arenas cost more to build than they output economically. I don't really see Porter Counting creating a sales tax for this, and I don't really think a TIF district would generate enough tax revenue in the proposed location. If I were Valpo, I wouldn't hold my breath on this happening and I'd continue with the original plan of a new fieldhouse with renovations to the ARC instead of waiting around for yet another failed arena plan. As long as they link to a 'List of Sports' article on Wikipedia, I can't take this group seriously.

Even if this magically gets built, I don't expect it to have a huge impact on the actual team, that is, unless the MVC extends a bid because of it. The brand new Ford Center hasn't really given Evansville a huge boost in recruiting - they finished with a 200+ RPI last year. Green Bay hasn't made the tourney since moving into Resch Center. I think the impact of facilities tends to get overstated a bit... I think winning tradition and coaching plays about 95% into a recruits decision in deciding which mid major school to attend. I can't imagine playing in a mostly empty stadium with virtually no students would be significantly more enticing than playing in the ARC. Maybe a little bit, but is it really going to sway recruits?

[valpo64]

A large arena for Porter County is doomed to fail.  Let's concentrate on getting the ARC renovated and expanded.  You cannot beat an on-campus facility, especially at a school VU's size.  It is time for the ARC project to get moving.

[78crusader]

An off-site arena would absolutely, positively be the WORST thing VU athletics could ever, ever do.  It would basically kill off our basketball program.

Just ask the Drake University athletics people, here where I live, in Des Moines.  Drake played its home games at Vets Auditorium in downtown DSM for years.  During which time, I should mention, they had to fight and scratch to get decent home dates over classy events like monster truck pulls and KISS concerts.  Although the Auditorium is located maybe 2 miles from the Drake campus, student apathy was rampant and students stayed away from the games in droves.  No wonder Drake basketball took a nosedive during these years. I think Drake had one winning season from the mid 1980s until its MVC championship/NCAA tournament year in 2008.   If a contest was held during those years and Drake tickets were the prize, then the first place winner got 2 tickets...and the second place winner got 4 tickets.  Yes, it was THAT bad for Drake.  They had back-to-back seasons of 1-26 and 3-24.  Not kidding. 

When a donor stepped forward to help fund an on-campus arena in the early 1990s, it took Drake all of about 5 seconds to jump at the chance to get back on campus. 

No remodeling of the ARC until the fieldhouse gets built.  And, in my opinion, the board won't authorize the fieldhouse until the new science building and another new dorm gets built. Considering that the fieldhouse will cost at least $40 million, which will take at least two years to raise, I don't think the first shovel of dirt gets tossed until around 2017.  If then.   

Paul

[wh]

If we took a poll, I doubt there would be a single vote in favor of an off-campus basketball venue over a new or revamped on-campus facility. Similarly, there wouldn't be a single vote in favor of a shared community natatorium over one on campus controlled exclusively by the university. Unfortunately, unless you're a Loyola with money to burn or a public university with taxpayer dollars to abuse (neither of which applies to Valpo), you may have to explore more creative solutions. I believe the administration is doing exactly that.

[VULB#62]

Considering that the fieldhouse will cost at least $40 million, which will take at least two years to raise, I don't think the first shovel of dirt gets tossed until around 2017.  If then.   

D-III Middlebury College in Vermont built a palace for $22 million.  I believe a  basic fieldhouse could come in under that.

Similarly, there wouldn't be a single vote in favor of a shared community natatorium over one on campus controlled exclusively by the university.

If the donor backing is there I completely agree, WH, but it isn't, and a community/university collaboration on campus could work as a win/win for all.  Look, we already use a "community" facility for indoor tennis and it is enriching our program.   Unlike some other schools where there is a golf course on campus we use Aberdeen.  In the non-revenue sports this sort of cooperation can work -- as long as it is on or near campus for sports like tennis, golf and swimming.

Many of us have wondered about why the community does not support Valpo as much as we would like. In the non-revenue sports, this is where we can engender greater community involvement.  Maybe that would spill over, in time, to all sports.

Case in point:  D-III Concordia University Wisconsin.  Baseball.  Kapco park.  3,000 seat on-campus baseball stadium.  Site of the 2014 Horizon Baseball tournament.  The place is super -- I've been there.  During the summer it hosts the Lakewood Chinooks of the Northwoods Collegiate league.    >>>>  http://cuwfalcons.com/facilities/kapcopark

But both of us agree (I think) that any collaboration has to be well thought out and that our major sports have to think very carefully about things like off campus venues.  Personally I favor an ARC renovation.  I also depart from the majority and believe that the ARC can be renovated in, say, a 3 year phased plan without having to wait for the field house to be built.

[valpotx]

When did Middlebury build their fieldhouse?  My sister graduated from there in 2005, and was a 4 year volleyball starter.  She actually turned down a partial Valpo soccer scholarship to play volleyball at Middlebury!  If it was when she was in school, I will have to ask her how it looked on a daily basis

[usc4valpo]

I did not know that Valpo was that strapped for cash. I know they do not have funding for a $150M sports center, but you would think the suitors can fork out $20 - 30M for a decent renovation and expansion of the ARC.

Drake has a fairly decent arena for basketball, and a great location.  However, fans are not packing the Knapp Center.  Recent teams have been pretty average.

[VULB#62]

When did Middlebury build their fieldhouse?  My sister graduated from there in 2005, and was a 4 year volleyball starter.  She actually turned down a partial Valpo soccer scholarship to play volleyball at Middlebury!  If it was when she was in school, I will have to ask her how it looked on a daily basis

It will be done by the fall of this year.  I was wrong, 78 -- it was in the same $$$ ballpark as your $40 million -- $46 million to be exact.  It's called the "Field House and Squash Center."  Squash is big back east I guess. Check out the slide show.   http://www.middlebury.edu/giving/priorities/Programs/athletics/field_house

Field House
•110,000 square feet

Track
•6-lane, 200-meter track
•8 60-meter sprint lanes
•Areas for high jump, long jump, pole vault, and throwing

Inside the Track•Artificial turf field suitable for all field sports

Squash Center•Expansion of squash courts from 5 to 9

[a3uge]

Couple random thoughts.

* A new field house will help tremendously with prospective students. The big knock I had on Valpo compared to other schools I visited was that other schools seemed to have plenty of things to do. Valpo did very well with presenting Engineering/academics, but did a terrible job of presenting any recreational activities (this was before the new union). I visited Carthage and was impressed with their new field house and the fact they open courts and an open track, etc, and found Valpo pretty boring comparatively.
* This new field house should contain a new pool. The pool at the Super 8 up the road is nicer than the Valpo pool.
* Funding a new field house will be difficult. Do the Christopher's have any money left? Why don't any of our big donors like sports? In the past 10 years we've built a $35 million dollar Library and a $70 million dollar Union. Getting donations for all of these buildings seems like a daunting task.
* The boon in new buildings occurred mostly in the late 60's, early 70's. Architecturally the buildings all look the same, which is unfortunate because these buildings have remarkably poor designs, inside and out. Gellerson looks like a Frank Lloyd Wright designed state prison. Having as few windows as possible was a poor idea.
* A new field house needs to be in place before they can renovate the ARC to have a better arena feel. The extra space will allow room for a proper concourse, and since courts will be built in the new arena, the seating will no longer need to be retractable. In my opinion, building a new 'arena' would be a waste of money. Build a fieldhouse with a bunch of courts and a pool, then come back to the ARC and keep making renovations to it.

[vu72]

Couple random thoughts.

* A new field house will help tremendously with prospective students. The big knock I had on Valpo compared to other schools I visited was that other schools seemed to have plenty of things to do. Valpo did very well with presenting Engineering/academics, but did a terrible job of presenting any recreational activities (this was before the new union). I visited Carthage and was impressed with their new field house and the fact they open courts and an open track, etc, and found Valpo pretty boring comparatively.
* This new field house should contain a new pool. The pool at the Super 8 up the road is nicer than the Valpo pool.
* Funding a new field house will be difficult. Do the Christopher's have any money left? Why don't any of our big donors like sports? In the past 10 years we've built a $35 million dollar Library and a $70 million dollar Union. Getting donations for all of these buildings seems like a daunting task.
* The boon in new buildings occurred mostly in the late 60's, early 70's. Architecturally the buildings all look the same, which is unfortunate because these buildings have remarkably poor designs, inside and out. Gellerson looks like a Frank Lloyd Wright designed state prison. Having as few windows as possible was a poor idea.
* A new field house needs to be in place before they can renovate the ARC to have a better arena feel. The extra space will allow room for a proper concourse, and since courts will be built in the new arena, the seating will no longer need to be retractable. In my opinion, building a new 'arena' would be a waste of money. Build a fieldhouse with a bunch of courts and a pool, then come back to the ARC and keep making renovations to it.

A few random thoughts of my own:

First, I hope you weren't considering Cathage as a place to get an engineering degree and second, The Christopher's sold The Pampered Chef to Warren Buffet for around a billion.  I'm pretty sure they don't have to watch their pennies.  The rest of the stuff I agree with.

[a3uge]

Couple random thoughts.

* A new field house will help tremendously with prospective students. The big knock I had on Valpo compared to other schools I visited was that other schools seemed to have plenty of things to do. Valpo did very well with presenting Engineering/academics, but did a terrible job of presenting any recreational activities (this was before the new union). I visited Carthage and was impressed with their new field house and the fact they open courts and an open track, etc, and found Valpo pretty boring comparatively.
* This new field house should contain a new pool. The pool at the Super 8 up the road is nicer than the Valpo pool.
* Funding a new field house will be difficult. Do the Christopher's have any money left? Why don't any of our big donors like sports? In the past 10 years we've built a $35 million dollar Library and a $70 million dollar Union. Getting donations for all of these buildings seems like a daunting task.
* The boon in new buildings occurred mostly in the late 60's, early 70's. Architecturally the buildings all look the same, which is unfortunate because these buildings have remarkably poor designs, inside and out. Gellerson looks like a Frank Lloyd Wright designed state prison. Having as few windows as possible was a poor idea.
* A new field house needs to be in place before they can renovate the ARC to have a better arena feel. The extra space will allow room for a proper concourse, and since courts will be built in the new arena, the seating will no longer need to be retractable. In my opinion, building a new 'arena' would be a waste of money. Build a fieldhouse with a bunch of courts and a pool, then come back to the ARC and keep making renovations to it.

A few random thoughts of my own:

First, I hope you weren't considering Cathage as a place to get an engineering degree and second, The Christopher's sold The Pampered Chef to Warren Buffet for around a billion.  I'm pretty sure they don't have to watch their pennies.  The rest of the stuff I agree with.

Ah, nice. Did Dr Dre happen to go to Valpo? Knew I should've started my own headphone company.

Carthage only offered a split 3-2 engineering program with the U of Minnesota. Don't know who would do that, but at the time I was toying with 4 or 5 majors that they offered.

[usc4valpo]

if the sports facility is off campus, and Valpo does not have to pay for anything, then would this be a viable solution?  Would playing at a state of the art facility be better than playing at the ARC?  Just asking since we are strapped for cash.

[vu84v2]

I don't think that Valpo is strapped for cash (though many state schools and large endowment schools do have more money).  The issue at Valpo is priorities.  New dorms, a new science building, and expanding or building a new business school have to be top priorities, plus the university is spending huge amounts on renovating the Chapel (which would not be my priority).  A fieldhouse would fit behind those priorities, and once a fieldhouse is done the university can reasonably look to renovate the ARC with minimal or no expansion (a bowl with seating behind both baskets should get you to 6000 which is sufficient).

In no way should Valpo EVER move basketball off-site.  Having other sports share facilities (golf, tennis, etc.) makes sense because there is little or no attendance (no offense...and I played one of those sports at Valpo).

One other comment: the post that refers to Gellersen (the original part of the building) as a Frank Lloyd Wright designed state prison is classic.  The place is special because of the people, not the architecture.

[valpo84]

I will not weigh too heavily into this debate at this time, but thought we'd mention that at least Portage County isn't trying to shove a sales tax increase down your throats (yet) to pay for a new arena for that will only be used by one tenant -- the Akron Zips. Summit County is hiding a .25% tax increase in a 1.25% overall increase for "safety/police/fire system" improvements that will be on the ballot in November. The Country will have a $75 million new 8500 seat arena constructed in downtown Akron (very near campus). The tax will be for 23 years and it is projected to pay $7 million/year (or $151 mill for the arena all in) to pay the bonds to build the arena. Akron will run the arena but likely will need to be subsidized because there are only 40 dates that would have mens and women's basketball (at most). The "plan" is to draw other events like tractor pulls and Globetrotters. Unfortunately, there are lots of other venues trying to attract B, C, and D acts in this area, with the Q, Canton Center, Youngstown State, multiple theatres, etc. Bad research and faulty economic studies will doom this if passed. With a white elephant called Wolstein Center at CSU nearby, it is reckless and feckless for the county to build another building for one tenant that barely fills on a few occasions a 5000 seat JAR. The JAR, btw, was built about the same time as ARC and is a bit similar in look and feel, except it has end court built-in bleachers. So, this will be an interesting development to watch. Of course, Akron U is happy to have someone build it for them.

[valpotx]

WTH is a tractor pull event?  I can picture it, but what is the point??

[wh]

Wow, you do live a sheltered life!    Nothing like a going to a modified tractor pull: 2, 3, 4 and even 5-engine monster machines, deafening noise, the ground and stands literally shaking - a mind blowing experience guaranteed to make a man out of you!

Here's a little taste, right in your neck of the woods:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brxI1aKbwg8

[valpotx]

Hahaha.  I think the fact that I have no clue where Whitewright, TX is, shows even more how sheltered I must be

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Clearly, the Texas History classes are lacking a certain something!

[historyman]

The fact that Whitewright is about 75 miles from Euless, north of McKinney and south of Sherman, should set off some alarms about your geography knowledge of Texas.

[valpotx]

This isn't Indiana, where you have 10 miles of open land between cities, so you know every city in the state .  You have city after interconnected city that have populations of 40k+ throughout DFW, and a population of 6.8 million throughout, and around 25-26 million in TX overall.  That is more than many countries in the world!!  Though 75 miles outside of the Mid-Cities (my area) may not sound far out, that is out in Podunk land.  I know plenty about Texas geography/history, and Whitewright barely has any.  I mean seriously, you expect me to know every city in a 100-200 mile radius that has a population of 1,600???  Look at this amazing information about the city:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewright,_Texas

Let's see some hands!  Who had Bennie Binion as having been from Whitewright, TX??  Anyone??  Bueller??

[valporun]

I would have asked, "Who's Bennie Binion?", but I'm guessing the big name casino owner of Binion's Casinos...

[bbtds]

Valpotx, where the hell is Euless    !!!!!!









picture captured 6/24/2014

[valpotx]

Right next to DFW Airport, with a population of around 53,000, halfway between Dallas and Fort Worth (Mid-Cities).  Home to Trinity High School, a school often ranked in the top 3 each year of HS football rankings in the national polls .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euless,_Texas
http://trinitytrojanfootball.com/about/

I grew up in Colleyville, a city next to Euless, with a population of around 23,000.  Home to Colleyville Heritage High School, a school often ranked in the top 20 each year of HS baseball & football rankings in the national polls, including when I was in school playing .  It used to be in the top 100 public HS academic rankings in the nation when I was attending, but is now listed at #333.  Home to Christian Ponder (Minnesota Vikings), James Russell (Chicago Cubs, I knew him as Jamie when I babysat for his family), Jaimie Alexander (Thor movie star), Norah Jones, Demi Lovato, Jenna Dewan Tatum (Channing Tatum's wife/actress), and a few other cool people.  Those are the people who grew up in Cville, but there are a TON of professional athletes/actors/actresses that call Colleyville home now, due to house sizes and per capita income: Josh Hamilton, Pudge Rodriguez, several PGA golfers, Rafael Palmeiro (his kids went to CHHS as well), DeMarcus Ware, Roy Williams, etc.  When Jose Canseco played with the Rangers, he lived in my neighborhood as well.  In other words, we rule (not because of Canseco) .  I will be moving back to Colleyville in 2-3 years so that my son can get into that better academic school district.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleyville,_TX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleyville_Heritage_High_School

[bbtds]

I was just playing with you.

I rented a car at DFW yesterday and had appointments in Frisco, Plano (2), McKinney, Sherman and Durant, OK. Then I had to drive back to DFW. Since I was running out of McKinney towards Sherman and noticed Whitewright on the map, I slid over and grabbed a picture. Those are some extremely rural roads (Farm to Market roads) from 75 over to 69 in eastern Grayson County. I don't know if it was the long horn steer or the guy in the black pick up truck tailgating me that made it seem more rural. I did notice a Binion Rd but no signs of Bennie Binion being honored by his home town. I guess a murderer, even John Dillinger, doesn't deserve any special treatment for being notorious. Right, Lake County!

[valpotx]

Haha, that is funny.  You see, I know ALL of those cities!  I figured that you found that picture online, so it is cool that you are in area on business.  I told you that once you get outside of what is truly considered DFW, there are tons of very small 'Podunk' towns, so Farm to Market roads are common in those areas.  VU72 lives in the Frisco/Plano area, I believe, which are obviously affluent areas as well.  I saw him again on Saturday at our Valpo DFW Club meeting.  I have a lot of pride in my hometown, as if you looked at the Colleyville Wiki page, you will notice that my mother is on the City Council, the only female, and she definitely takes all the guys to task .