Carlson Relieved of Duties as Head Coach

[VULB#62]

I liked the Hutton article. I hope he continues to stir the pot adding different ingredients as needed. Thanks Mike

I finally got the article to come up and I read it careful and i agree with you, Setshot.  Someone from outside needs to stir the pot a bit.  I kind of disagree that there was no research.  His angle was more from the disgruntled alumni perspective.  I do question his indictment of ML (BB handed to him by the Drews?), but his point (in my words) is that of all the high profile sports at Valpo, FB (and maybe WBB at this point IMO) has been shown the least respect by the university administration. But yet, despite it's terrible record over the past 8+ or so years, the sport (and the university) still gets significant visibility (ESPN crawler every Saturday) and still feeds emotions -- if people were not so passionate/disgusted about the situation, if people did not care, there wouldn't even be this discussion.

[valpotx]

I have to agree with Chef.  This guy seems like a casual viewer trying to make an article come together by calling a few ex-players to get a sentence or two from them to add to his piece.  Seriously?  There are programs out there with worse facilities that win.  Simply building something fancy won't change a whole lot in regards to the talent we are recruiting/getting.  A solid D-1 NON-SCHOLARSHIP player is a hard search, yes, because you are often picking at players left behind by scholarship programs (NCAA and sometimes NAIA).  What we need is someone that is good at identifying and selling talent on Valpo as their school of choice.  Don't give me this BS that just building a facility and better offices will show the commitment necessary for the football players to feel like winning.

Baseball is a fantastic example.  We had/have one of the worst facilities in D-1 as well, and with very similar talent/teams to what we have been winning with recently, were often a middle of the pack Mid-Con team.  This is with SCHOLARSHIP players that often have many more choices of places to play.  Coach Woodson and Schmack changed the culture to a winning one through their philosophies and playing to our strengths.  It all has to do with the mentality of the team, and playing to your strengths.  Football just needs a coaching staff that can change the feel of the program, it has much less to do with needing that glitzy facility...

Edit: I forgot to mention that MLB has done a fantastic job in hiring at VU.  His only miss was on Carlson, and I believe he has hired 4-5 other coaches that have experienced success outside of Drew.

[setshot]

Valpotex: Thought you might be interested in the fact that Tracey Woodson has signed an all-state player from Hilton Head to play at Richmond. The kid is not only a good baseball player he is an honor student in the classroom too. Watch out for Richmond.

[valpotx]

Yes, Richmond will be a solid program with him at the helm.  Even if he does not sign all-state talent, the guy knows how to develop players and cater the games to his team's strengths.  Our recent baseball teams didn't/don't have a bunch of superstars on them.  These kids came in with the same amount of accolades of a lot of people that were on my teams that had losing records.  However, Woodson was able to develop their talents further, make key game decisions, get them to buy into his philosophies, and keep confidence high.  We need the same thing for football...

[usc4valpo]

First of all, I am glad Mike Hutton wrote an in depth article on the football program and expressing his views and questioning the university's committment to football.  At least someone in the media cares about what's going on.  If the administration (not particularly MLB) really cares about football success rather than using it as a cash cow to bring in male students, I have to agree that Carlson should have been fired after last season, or without a doubt, after the William Jewell game.  I also think the university needs a deep reality check on what they want to do with football, and got this conclusion from this article.

Second, I appreciate the fact check chef brought up - there was not enough research and depth in Hutton's article.  There was a press release, and Hutton cannot defined ex-player support after a  sample of two.  Bringing up facilities is somewhat In chef's defense, the article was all over the place.

These viewpoints are synonomous with trying to understand a political issue after watching Fox News and then MSNBC.

At the end, my view is that Valpo (administration, athletics, you name it) is way too conservative about taking actions and tend to ignore and shy away from situations, with the approach that time heels wounds and medication is not required.  They are a university, they need to get out of their comfort zone and take risks now and then.

[VULB#62]

"We must not sacrifice our courage, our boldness, to settle for what is safe or what we can manage reasonably--that is, quite simply, to surrender to the 'tyranny of the possible.' "

--President Mark A. Heckler


In this case it's obvious Valpo is not even managing reasonably but are we also only looking for what can be managed reasonably?

Hutton may not know all the facts and may be throwing out his musings but is he at least shaking things up enough so that Valpo doesn't stay mired in it's current condition? Are some of us part of keeping the current condition going and does too much change scare us?

Ergo bbtds' post.  Agree there too.

[usc4valpo]

Valparaiso is a Christian university, and for the university to be truly teaching faith values, they need to "practice what they preach"

Bill Hybels at the Willow Creek Leadership Summit last summer opened it up with a discussion on courage:

"Joshua 1:9, which says, "Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go."

[willy]

I have to agree with Chef. This guy seems like a casual viewer trying to make an article come together by calling a few ex-players to get a sentence or two from them to add to his piece. Seriously? There are programs out there with worse facilities that win. Simply building something fancy won't change a whole lot in regards to the talent we are recruiting/getting. A solid D-1 NON-SCHOLARSHIP player is a hard search, yes, because you are often picking at players left behind by scholarship programs (NCAA and sometimes NAIA). What we need is someone that is good at identifying and selling talent on Valpo as their school of choice. Don't give me this BS that just building a facility and better offices will show the commitment necessary for the football players to feel like winning. Baseball is a fantastic example. We had/have one of the worst facilities in D-1 as well, and with very similar talent/teams to what we have been winning with recently, were often a middle of the pack Mid-Con team. This is with SCHOLARSHIP players that often have many more choices of places to play. Coach Woodson and Schmack changed the culture to a winning one through their philosophies and playing to our strengths. It all has to do with the mentality of the team, and playing to your strengths. Football just needs a coaching staff that can change the feel of the program, it has much less to do with needing that glitzy facility... Edit: I forgot to mention that MLB has done a fantastic job in hiring at VU. His only miss was on Carlson, and I believe he has hired 4-5 other coaches that have experienced success outside of Drew.

The football facilities at Valpo are atrocious.  The players have said the only school they played this year with comparable facilities is St Josephs a D2 school.  Have you been in the football lockeroom?  The lockers are old rusted metal that had to be installed in the sixties.  Fifty percent of the showers don't even work.  15 players have to dress and share a lockeroom across the hall from the majority of the team.  Nice facilities will definetly get you better recruits, Why do you think most schools are upgrading their facilities?  I don't know what other D1 baseball facilities look like but I do know Valpo's baseball facilities blow the drawers off the football facilities!!  Facilities won't win you games but it sure helps.

[Swarm94]

Tom Horne was the Head Coach in 1989.  He coached the last four years of D2 football.  He went 2 -27 -1 in his first three years.  The last year in D2 his team won three games.  In '93 which was first year in Pioneer they won 5.  In '94 they went 7 - 3.  They were also the First Pioneer Football league team to schedule a game with an IVY,  Yale in Soldier Field ('97 season).  Recruiting advantage

[usc4valpo]

Where are the current football locker rooms and offices located?  Are they the same as they were back at the Hilltop in the 80's?  If so, they were dumpy back then and this would be mind boggling.

[crusadermoe]

Bottom line is that Horne won the conference twice (2000, 2003) with all of the disadvantages we have now.     

If anything all of Heckler's hype and the beautiful new campus buildings should be making it easier to recruit.   The library and union did not exist until after 2003. 

Enough crying about the obstacles.   Get the right leader like you got in VB, soccer, and baseball and you can win.   

[valpo84]

Jim Tressel is eligible to coach next season. He's fundraising at Akron U now....

[usc4valpo]

and tattoo parlors are few in the Valpo area!

[historyman]

and tattoo parlors are few in the Valpo area!

You've obviously never heard of
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[usc4valpo]

Well, I'll be...

I would love to see a big name person take over the realms here.  I doubt it will happen of course.

How about Jerry Glanville, where Brown Field can become the new House of Pain?

[bbtds]

Well, I'll be...

I would love to see a big name person take over the realms here.  I doubt it will happen of course.

How about Jerry Glanville, where Brown Field can become the new House of Pain?

I thought State Farm Center in ChamPAIGN was the "House of Paign." At least the Illini fans think it is called that.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

How about Jerry Glanville, where Brown Field can become the new House of Pain?

we would have to hire a graduate assistant just to change his adult diaper, probably

[LaPorteAveApostle]

also there's been enough pain there for one decade

[VULB#62]

Bottom line is that Horne won the conference twice (2000, 2003) with all of the disadvantages we have now.     

If anything all of Heckler's hype and the beautiful new campus buildings should be making it easier to recruit.   The library and union did not exist until after 2003. 

Enough crying about the obstacles.   Get the right leader like you got in VB, soccer, and baseball and you can win.

Facility biggot here again.  Moe's right.  This program has to demonstrate that it deserves the grander facility investment (i.e., stadium).  But, there is talent here already -- it just has not been evaluated properly or put in a position to win by the last two coaching regimes. 

To assist the new coach out of the blocks right away .....
Tier I
First, invest in a full, F/T staff.  Invest in a bigger recruiting budget.
Tier II
Then invest in better lockers and the off-field experience.  Knock out some walls and fix the showers.
Tier III
After all that, look at replacing the main grandstands and press box and make Brown Field a true FCS facility.  Hopefully by then the track will fill the grassy void between the grandstand and the playing field.

Once the Field House gets built on the Porter Hospital property and some of the other sports move there, bring the FB team back to the ARC and give them a really good locker, weight training and meeting facility.

[historyman]

Enough crying about the obstacles.   Get the right leader like you got in VB, soccer, and baseball and you can win.

I think if you asked the 3 coaches, C Avery, M Avery and Woodson/Schmack if facilities were a negative in recruiting compared to schools that they are competing with for recruits that all 3 would agree with the statement. They have learned to use the school's academic reputation to counter the negative effect from facilities. What could these great coaches do if they could emphasize facilities? Why should we handicap a new coach, who will be attempting to resurrect a program lower than any other in Div. I (sans maybe Grambling) by making him recruit around the facilities issue. Carlson deserved better facilities but, I don't believe, he would have won with those better facilities anyway. Show the commitment to winning by upgrading the facilities. Show the commitment to winning by paying the head coach and staff better than the average of PFL coaches. Show the commitment to winning by demanding a winning record in 3 to 4 years. Show the commitment to winning by allowing the new head coach to go the allowable PFL limits on financial aid. Show the commitment to winning by "thinking outside the box" when dealing with football issues. Show a real commitment to winning!!!!

[covufan]

I've read both Hutton articles.  These were sportswriters pieces, intending to either vent or sling mud upon those he feels are in control.  Sometimes in journalism you need someone to say what they feel about a sports team.  Other than he seemed to feel slighted about not getting an email about the firing, I don't think his venting was particularly hateful - he didn't say anything that hasn't been on this board several times over the last two years. 

I agree that we, and the future football coaching staff, need to tie into the network of former players.  I've said in the past that the Valpo program needs to be where young men come to get a good education, and for some to use that for their future in coaching.  When our former players and student volunteers are along the sidelines on Friday nights and Saturday afternoons in great numbers, feeding the current team with talent and overall good publicity - that is when the VU Football program is in the right place.  Former players, even if not in coaching, most likely still have a finger on the pulse of their local HS football teams, and can provide a first hand recommendations - but only if asked.  Whomever becomes the next coach really needs to bring back the former players and recognize them in some way, and build a trusting relationship with those players. 

Hutton has some good points, and VU should capitalize the opportunity of his press to show the what, where, when, how and why of future VU Football.

[vu72]

I've read both Hutton articles.  These were sportswriters pieces, intending to either vent or sling mud upon those he feels are in control.  Sometimes in journalism you need someone to say what they feel about a sports team.  Other than he seemed to feel slighted about not getting an email about the firing, I don't think his venting was particularly hateful - he didn't say anything that hasn't been on this board several times over the last two years. 

I agree that we, and the future football coaching staff, need to tie into the network of former players.  I've said in the past that the Valpo program needs to be where young men come to get a good education, and for some to use that for their future in coaching.  When our former players and student volunteers are along the sidelines on Friday nights and Saturday afternoons in great numbers, feeding the current team with talent and overall good publicity - that is when the VU Football program is in the right place.  Former players, even if not in coaching, most likely still have a finger on the pulse of their local HS football teams, and can provide a first hand recommendations - but only if asked.  Whomever becomes the next coach really needs to bring back the former players and recognize them in some way, and build a trusting relationship with those players. 

Hutton has some good points, and VU should capitalize the opportunity of his press to show the what, where, when, how and why of future VU Football.

Remember that Carlson brought with him his offensive coordinator who became asst head coach and recruiting coordinator as I recall.  His name was Bob Muckian  who was a former Valpo player from the 90's.
Whether or not Carlson allowed Bob to do proper networking is a good question, but the staff did have a former Valpo player in a very high spot.  Bob left before last season to take a new job out east somewhere.

http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2009-10/9530/valpo-grad-bob-muckian-named-crusader-offensive-coordinator/

[bbtds]

I've read both Hutton articles.  These were sportswriters pieces, intending to either vent or sling mud upon those he feels are in control.  Sometimes in journalism you need someone to say what they feel about a sports team.  Other than he seemed to feel slighted about not getting an email about the firing, I don't think his venting was particularly hateful - he didn't say anything that hasn't been on this board several times over the last two years. 

I agree that we, and the future football coaching staff, need to tie into the network of former players.  I've said in the past that the Valpo program needs to be where young men come to get a good education, and for some to use that for their future in coaching.  When our former players and student volunteers are along the sidelines on Friday nights and Saturday afternoons in great numbers, feeding the current team with talent and overall good publicity - that is when the VU Football program is in the right place.  Former players, even if not in coaching, most likely still have a finger on the pulse of their local HS football teams, and can provide a first hand recommendations - but only if asked.  Whomever becomes the next coach really needs to bring back the former players and recognize them in some way, and build a trusting relationship with those players. 

Hutton has some good points, and VU should capitalize the opportunity of his press to show the what, where, when, how and why of future VU Football.

Remember that Carlson brought with him his offensive coordinator who became asst head coach as I recall.  His name was Bob Muchian (sp?) who was a former Valpo player from the 80's.
Whether or not Carlson allowed Bob to do proper networking is a good question, but the staff did have a former Valpo player in a very high spot.  Bob left before last season to take a new job out east somewhere.

Maybe we miss a simple but important requirement when wanting to keep good people from leaving their jobs. What things do you want from your employment? Salary, work environment, good cooperation between staff and safe work environment among some other things. The new head coach must think of these things also when hiring a staff and setting up routines.

[covufan]

Remember that Carlson brought with him his offensive coordinator who became asst head coach as I recall.  His name was Bob Muchian (sp?) who was a former Valpo player from the 80's.
Whether or not Carlson allowed Bob to do proper networking is a good question, but the staff did have a former Valpo player in a very high spot.  Bob left before last season to take a new job out east somewhere.

Maybe we miss a simple but important requirement when wanting to keep good people from leaving their jobs. What things do you want from your employment? Salary, work environment, good cooperation between staff and safe work environment among some other things. The new head coach must think of these things also when hiring a staff and setting up routines.

I believe that Muckian was well respected here at VU, but was getting married and wanted to be out East for the family.  I think it was ml2 that informed us of this info.

[bbtds]

Remember that Carlson brought with him his offensive coordinator who became asst head coach as I recall.  His name was Bob Muchian (sp?) who was a former Valpo player from the 80's.
Whether or not Carlson allowed Bob to do proper networking is a good question, but the staff did have a former Valpo player in a very high spot.  Bob left before last season to take a new job out east somewhere.

Maybe we miss a simple but important requirement when wanting to keep good people from leaving their jobs. What things do you want from your employment? Salary, work environment, good cooperation between staff and safe work environment among some other things. The new head coach must think of these things also when hiring a staff and setting up routines.

I believe that Muckian was well respected here at VU, but was getting married and wanted to be out East for the family.  I think it was ml2 that informed us of this info.

Not to be sexist but why wasn't Muckian's job as important as his fiance's and why did Bob feel it wasn't that important to live in NW Indiana? Every decision involves weighing all the options no matter what excuses we make for not considering those options.