11/13/2013 Wednesday--Valpo at Illinois--6:30 p.m. CST--Game Thread

[Smj]

I am optimistic about this team but not insane.   I think we will lose but it ain't going to be a north park kind of loss.   We are still trying to find our mixture so I think we will be within 15.   We will have a couple offensive lulls that will put us behind.

The question will be if this team thinks that they "belong" at that level.   If we go in there with a chip on our shoulders who knows but since I am a betting man - I would rather not put money on them.    However, for me the important thing is that we look respectable - It will be nationally televised.   No matter the outcome this will be an excellent learning opportunity that will really help to develop this team.

As for the Illinois line-up ...  I actually like our freshman better than some of theirs.   And, I totally agree that we have experience just not all at Valpo...   Our 5th year seniors are very experienced and we have a couple players (actually a few) that have played at some good sized programs.

As for Vashil starting - totally agree that he seems better once play begins but I bet Moussa does better on the jump... 

[classof2014]

One thing that will be interesting will but what will the road uniforms look like??? Perhaps you'll be able to read the name on the back and they won't look like yellow highlighter markers on the court.

[EddieCabot]

The point wasn't that we have the same or similar team, or any comment in general about talent.  It was the fact that we never step up in away games against even middling BCS programs over the last decade.  An away game in a big arena intimidates our basketball programs for some reason.  Do we have the talent to win the game, yes.  But do we have that killer mentality to get it done on the road in a big game against a traditional power?  I just can't see it this early on in their career.

I realize Valpo hasn't beaten a BCS team since Washington in '08, but that is a program issue and shouldn't really impact THIS team.  As 2014 points out, this year's roster is made up of young guys who weren't around for previous losses to BCS teams and older guys like Capobianco, Gueye and Dority who came from BCS schools and shouldn't be intimidated by the environment.

I won't predict a score, but I think it should be a single-digit game.

[classof2014]

I'm hoping that we're no longer a 3-point shooting team that will work into our advantage. In games last year when we played higher level schools (Nebraska, Saint Louis, New Mexico, and Michigan State) We were a dismal 28% (22/79) from 3-point land. Those numbers would have been much worse because we shot the ball pretty well against New Mexico.

Nebraska - 2/15 from 3 and shot .340 (16/47)
Saint Louis - 5/21 from 3 and shot .326 (15/46)
New Mexico - 8/18 from 3 and shot .486 (18/37)
Michigan State - 7/25 from 3 and shot .352 (19/54)

In all of those games we were unable to hit 20 buckets and reach the 60 point mark. The only game we shot well in was the New Mexico game but the decent shooting performance was completely nullified by the 23 turnovers we committed. Last year we always seemed to shrink in games against bigger programs and shot terribly. Last year we lived by the 3 and died by the 3. If we shot well in big games we could have beaten teams like the four mentioned above, but only one game we shot decently and the other games were awful offensive performances. If we wanna beat Illinois we cannot shoot 32% from the floor but this team is way different and isn't a sharp shooting team and have guys that can get to the basket for high percentage layups. So long as we don't try to do something that we are not we should be able to give Illinois a run for their money.

Are we gonna win? I don't know, probably not. Will we score more than 60? Yes. I think the biggest keys to the game will be not to try a 3 pointer every other shot, make our layups, make our free throws, and take care of the ball, if they do those things our chances of winning are much, much higher. If I were to bet on this game I would put my money on Illinois but we have a legitimate shot at pulling off the upset.

We're not the 3-point shooting team that we were last year, I really like that about our team. Cause we lived by the 3 and died by the 3. In games where we were shooting lights out we could beat anybody but when we had a night where we were awful from the 3 were could get killed by anybody. This team is different, I have a good feeling about this one.

[Kyle321n]

Would anyone else mind seeing Coleman take a "point forward" role so Dority can be more of a shooting guard? I think in that first unit Coleman has the best ball handling skills and if Dority brings the ball up every time I could see Illinois pressing to force TOs.

[Smj]

I would much rather see Dority in the shooting guard position...   He is not a point guard and we look better when he is in a two spot... 

[covufan]

I'm not predicting a win, but a close game.  If we can keep them off the offensive boards and limit our turnovers, we have a chance.

Valpo 67
Illinois 71

[a3uge]

Valpo 78 Illinois 75. But then we lose to James Madison.

[justducky]

Would anyone else mind seeing Coleman take a "point forward" role so Dority can be more of a shooting guard? I think in that first unit Coleman has the best ball handling skills and if Dority brings the ball up every time I could see Illinois pressing to force TOs.

Just from memory, but I believe that Coleman did play big minutes as point in Junior college. Again from memory I think his assist to turnover ratio was unimpressive at something like 1.1 to 1. As much as his overall play has improved it does make me wonder how he might do if given the chance. This is just one of those issues where I am pretty sure that the staff knows best and if there was some kind of advantage by doing so the change would be made. Our starting and substitute guard play (including LaVonte) already looks to be well above my expectations so maybe Bryce could do some shuffling with positive effects. When you add Carter to this mix of guards then it looks to me to be one very special bunch!

[valpopal]

Todd interviews Bryce in his first coach's preview show of the season:

Valpo Basketballl Preview 11|12|13

[vu72]

Todd interviews Bryce in his first coach's preview show of the season:

Valpo Basketballl Preview 11|12|13

So, is Todd standing in a hole or is Bryce really 6'7"??   

[78crusader]

Just watched LIU-Brooklyn nearly take down IU in Bloomington.

I don't care if we win tomorrow night.  Sure, it would be great to get a W, but I don't expect that will happen.  This is what I really want: that we give the Illini fits, just like LIU-Brooklyn did to IU tonight.  That we play well.  That we don't wilt again on the big TV stage against a big time program.  That we live up to our billing as a traditional mid-major power and, for the first time in a long time, play tough against a BCS opponent.  That we put a big scare in a quality opponent, just like LIU did tonight in a very, very tough environment.  This is what I want. 

Paul

[Smj]

I was thinking more about jordan Coleman at the point....   I do not "know" Jordan but the more I think about his temperament the more I think he could get down on himself if he did not do well in that position.   Dortity does seem more flexible?   

Here is a different thought (depending on his defensive ability)....   Start Lexus instead of Alec.    I think we are weaker at the point anyway.   And when Keith is eligible Alec will lose his starting spot.   Easier to take it from Lexus than Alec.

[valpotx]

I highly doubt that Alec will be leaving the starting lineup at any point this season.  Even though Coleman has played well, he will probably be the guy dropped down when Carter becomes eligible.  Several people have stated on here that Alec was promised starts, which is one of the reasons he came here, and he hasn't done much negative to drop him down.

[classof2014]

Chances are if anybody were to lose his starting job it would be Peters. Nothing against him but once Carter becomes eligible he takes over the point, Dority moves to the 2, and I think Coleman takes over at the three. There is without a doubt Peters will still get the 25+ minutes a game, he'd just become the sixth man which pretty much gets starting minutes. Personally, I think starting is a bit overrated, its more important who finishes games than starts them. Peters will get tons of playing time this season, whether he starts once Carter is available is the question.

I just think Coleman gets the edge due to his seniority and if Coleman keeps playing at a high level I don't see how we cannot have him in there. Nothing against Alec he's gonna get a ton of playing time, I just think Coleman gets the start over Peters due to seniority.

[Kyle321n]

Here is a different thought (depending on his defensive ability)....   Start Lexus instead of Alec.    I think we are weaker at the point anyway. And when Keith is eligible Alec will lose his starting spot.   Easier to take it from Lexus than Alec.

I highly doubt that Alec will be leaving the starting lineup at any point this season.  Even though Coleman has played well, he will probably be the guy dropped down when Carter becomes eligible.  Several people have stated on here that Alec was promised starts, which is one of the reasons he came here, and he hasn't done much negative to drop him down.

I was going to wait a little while to consider this but I think this should be it's own thread: "Who should start when Carter becomes eligible".  IMHO I think we should start Carter, Coleman and Peters and have Williams-Dority-Yeo as the second unit coming off the bench. 

   
• Carter will obviously play the majority of the time at point, but giving him 12-15 minutes off a night with Williams spelling him would be good for Lexus's development. 
• I think if you split Coleman and Dority's time 50-50 you'd be better off.  Coleman gives you more athleticism and better defense, while Dority might give you more scoring (I'm still not sold on that point, as I believe Coleman can give you 10-12 a night). I don't think their styles really work together on the court.
• Peters and Yeo can play together when you want to go smaller with Peters at the 4 for Bobby (or even Bobby at the 5 if Vashil or Moussa get in foul trouble). But for the most part I can see Peters getting the most minutes at the 3 with Yeo spelling him.

Back to Illinois.  They are very vulnerable to second chance points.  I don't know who Egwu is going to guard, but both Bobby and Moussa need to have a big game and be look to crash the offensive board.  If we can get inside scoring and offensive rebounds, I think we will stand a good shot of winning.  Defensively we need to be ready to provide helpside defense.  Illinois runs a lot of motion offense, especially against man defense.  When J-State went into their zone, Illinois tried to run some motion, but for the most part the stood still and passed the ball around the perimeter and looked to get it to Egwu. Maybe we should switch up defenses on them frequently to try to confuse them. We also need to get a body on Egwu.  He can shoot it from 15 feet or so, but he's much more comfortable with his back to the basket.

[valpopal]

This is worth a look: Coach Powell playing for Illinois in national semi-final game.

The Rev vs Louisville

[LaPorteAveApostle]

"Who should start when Carter becomes eligible".  IMHO I think we should start Carter, Coleman and Peters and have Williams-Dority-Yeo as the second unit coming off the bench. 

No need for a new thread.  You just ended it.

If Paul Oren says "as long as Peters is at VU he's starting", I believe it.  I don't ever remember, as TX said, that it was written here that he was promised starts, but clearly something is in people's mind about it.

In a bigger sense, it's Gueye-Capo-Peters-Coleman-Carter, and we can roll a second unit of Vashil-Chadwick-Yeo-Dority-Williams, if we wanted to sub that way.  That's impressive.

[valpotx]

This is worth a look: Coach Powell playing for Illinois in national semi-final game.

The Rev vs Louisville

Love the rebound of his own shot for a dunk!  Need more of that from all players, who seem to fade back after shooting, not even maintaining the spot they shot from.

[wh]

Some interesting chatter on the Illinois message board:

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=20539

[Chairback]

When Carter comes it's Bobby who should go to the bench.  Peters is a scorer and you need to leave him in.

[classof2014]

When Carter comes it's Bobby who should go to the bench.  Peters is a scorer and you need to leave him in.

Honestly, Moussa/Vashil should go to the bench. Is the jump ball really that important? Just move Bobby to the 5, Alec to the 4, Coleman the 3, Dority the 2, and Carter the 1.

[MattCarter]

Am I crazy for wanting to try starting Lexus at point until Carter is ready?  Trial by fire sure helped Eric Buggs and I see a lot of potential in Lexus' game.

Williams
Carter
Coleman
Peters
Rotate Cap/Vashil/Mousse

6th man Yeo?

I am very curious to see this Illinois game and have no clue what will happen

Big Ten Network only streams if you subscribe to a cable plan, btw.  I do see a spot on first row sports for it, though

[LaPorteAveApostle]

When Carter comes it's Bobby who should go to the bench. 

Oh, right, because replacing a 6-10 dude with a 6-0 dude totally doesn't negate our height advantage over almost everyone on our schedule.

MattCarter!  Where have you been in forever, man?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Tidbits from the Ilini board:

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=824407&postcount=59

Valpo Message Board:

http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?board=2.0

Pretty intelligent and passionate fan base.

thank you.  thankyouverymuch. /elvis'd

Also, who is the 50s alum grandpa that would be rooting for the Illini tonight?  Would said person also root for the house in blackjack?  http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=823689&postcount=29

Toward that end, who is the grad student IN OUR OWN ATHLETIC DEPT that thinks we will lose by 20?
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=824522&postcount=66

Moreover, who on this board thinks that this year's team will be better than last year's?
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=824526&postcount=67

Liked this exchange (posts 90-91):

How do you guys compare Peters to Nate Taphorn from Northwestern. Taphorn impressed me in the game I've watched, but it was against weak competition. He's going to need to add strength, but the kid is a competitor for a freshman.

Watched Peters play Taphorn many times and Valpo definitely got the better end of that deal. Stronger, more athletic, better defender and in my opinion shoots the ball just as well. Both smart players but Peters can make more happen for you. Peters team actually shut Taphorn out in one of their games - Nobody shut Peters out.

One of their guys did a preview on us:
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=825597&postcount=87
Highlights thereof:

The Crusaders are led by head coach Bryce Drew (yes, he's related to Scott Drew)

...didn't see that coming.  maybe it's a young board.  that's like "Charlie Sheen (yes, he's related to Emilio Estevez)"

Think of Peters as a poor man's Robbie Hummel. Yes, because he's white, but also because ...

SENTENCES I DIDN'T FINISH READING

take a look at Fernandez and Gueye. Two shot blockers and large human beings occupy the middle for Valpo (though not usually at the same time). Fernandez has a little more experience at the D1 level, but he is also smaller than Gueye.

um...well, one outta 2 ain't bad, kid.