11/17/2013 Sunday 1:00 p.m. CST --Valpo at Ohio University--game thread

[truth219]

Put bobby on the bench. Peters at the 4 and clay at the two. Bobby has lost his starting spot in my eyes.


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[valpopal]

Predicted preseason that this team would be frustrating to watch, a team in progress with freshmen turnovers and inconsistent play, especially in the non-conference schedule, and today's game displayed those characteristics. I praised the freshmen in the Illinois game for playing 76 minutes without a single turnover; however, today they had 9 turnovers in 80 minutes, which was the difference in the game. The three-pojnt shooting (29%) was off also, but the free throw shooting (81%) was excellent most of the game. Valpo also out-rebounded Ohio by 10 boards.

Dority, Peters (with a double-double, but 6 turnovers), and Coleman were productive, though Coleman got his points at the free-throw line and was only 1-5 on field goals. Lexus had his weakest game thus far, and for the first time looked like a freshman. I still don't think the abuse of Bobby by some is warranted. His game was not stellar, but not as horrible as depicted in some comments: he had 5 points and 4 rebounds in just 17 minutes of play, and he only had 1 turnover to go with 1 assist.

This team is still learning to play together, particularly on the road in tough environments, especially the freshmen. I had predicted wins against Murray State and North Park, as well as losses against Illinois and Ohio, leading to a 5-4 November, which still seems reasonable to expect. 

[hoopfan22]

At least they're working the ugliness out now. This team will be fine. I must reiterate, Bobby C should play as little as possible. Find minutes for Jubril or SOMETHING. Geez.

[Chairback]

I still don't think the abuse of Bobby by some is warranted. His game was not stellar, but not as horrible as depicted in some comments: he had 5 points and 4 rebounds in just 17 minutes of play, and he only had 1 turnover to go with 1 assist.

 

Did Bryce have him on the bench to start the second half?  I couldn't tell as I missed the first portion of it.  Also, in those 17 minutes how many points did he give up on D?  He's too slow to guard out on the parameter and gives up easy shots.

[justducky]

I must reiterate, Bobby C should play as little as possible. Find minutes for Jubril or SOMETHING. Geez.

There will be many opportunities and matchups where Bobby can make great contribution at the 4 but many of us knew going into this game that playing 2 bigs against Ohio was going to create us some problems. So lets say that from my perspective it was a pick your poison type coaching decision. Yes we could have gone smaller earlier with better early play but the downside to that might have been fouling out 2 to 4 of our go small lineup. We needed to get as many minutes from Bobby as we could to give us a late game chance and we did.

The difference in this game may be the 4,5 or 6 turnovers that Ohio created mid-game when they overplayed everybody and threatened traps just past the mid court. None of our guards knew how to handle it and I'm not sure our coaches did either. (Carter may have struggled as well) From this they got several easy layups, and an opportunity to set the same thing up again. Maybe some off ball screens followed by someone sprinting out to receive the pass followed by somebody going backdoor? Do not know, I would have to watch that 8 minutes again to get an answer. ( I am sure the coaching staff will.)

This should be a pretty good man to man team come February and I am looking foreward to it.

[bbtds]

Thoughts are with that community, and hope that Peters' family is ok as well.

Yes, prayers for Peters' family, friends, and neighbors. Images of destruction coming from Alec's hometown are devastating.

Update: First word is that Alec's family is okay and helping their neighbors.

Good, good to hear. I've been talking on the phone with a buddy, Snake, in the EMS office of Peoria County. At the time I talked to him he said he would try and find out some info about what areas were hit in Tazewell County(across the river from Peoria County). He said he couldn't find out about specific people at that time. He called me back a few minutes ago and found out the Peters' home was in a not-as-damaged area.

Peoria County EMS will be in Tazewell County all night. Snake will be taking the midnight to noon shift in Tazewell County in the Morton area which was hit but not as heavily. 

Call 800-621-3362 to contact FEMA to help in the area. Probably will be going to Illinois (Tazewell County) next week instead of Evansville.

[valpopal]

I still don't think the abuse of Bobby by some is warranted. His game was not stellar, but not as horrible as depicted in some comments: he had 5 points and 4 rebounds in just 17 minutes of play, and he only had 1 turnover to go with 1 assist.

 

Did Bryce have him on the bench to start the second half?  I couldn't tell as I missed the first portion of it.  Also, in those 17 minutes how many points did he give up on D?  He's too slow to guard out on the parameter and gives up easy shots.

There were just six 3-point shots made by Ohio in the game, and only 1 was by Bobby's man. The others were all scored by guards. You can't blame Bobby for those, especially since he played center for more than four minutes he was in the game. In fact, Ohio only shot 27% (6-22) from the perimeter, so the perimeter defense must have been decent enough overall.

The game was simply lost on turnovers not poor defense of shooters. Valpo had 19 turnovers and Ohio only had 9: Ohio outscored Valpo on points off turnovers by 25-13 and on fast break points 13-6.

[classof2014]

Nice to see them come back and nice to see Alec shoot and rebound well today (although he had 6 turnovers) I can overlook that since he was a freshman. This team is gonna be really good this year, I feel these two games will be big learning experiences for them. I think we should be able to beat Evansville (I figured they'd go 1-2 on the road).

These types of losses are good learning experiences. Games like this is where the experience comes into play. Last year, we probably win a close game like this, this year not so much. But this is how you gain experience. The team didn't collapse when they easily could have, this game and against Illinois.

I'm with the many who want Bobby on the bench, he has been awful and when his best game this season is unproductive you know you're in trouble. Once Keith becomes eligible and if Bobby keeps playing like garbage he's on the bench, no doubt. We saw the potential of Peters. Yes, he turned it over but he's also a freshman, so it's forgiven. Bobby tries to do too much. He fouls often, turns it over, takes bad shots, and can't finish, other than that he's been good this season.

Like I said he better start playing better because once Keith is eligible, Peters will take his spot and Bobby will make his way to the bench.

Overall pleased to see we didn't collapse, which is promising. I figured we'd have games like this but they will pay off come conference play. Hopefully they can take the next step and beat the Purple Aces on Wednesday. Overall, I'm not too worried about this team, they lost to two very good teams on the road, and weren't blown out and could have easily won both.

My thoughts and prayers are with the Peters family tonight as well as the many other communities hit by tornadoes throughout Illinois today.

[EddieCabot]

Put bobby on the bench. Peters at the 4 and clay at the two. Bobby has lost his starting spot in my eyes.


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Agree that Peters has played well, but don't understand all the negativity towards Capobianco.  His shooting percentages are great ... 6 of 8 from three point range?  If anything, he should be playing more and Bryce should be figuring out how to get him more attempts from behind the arc.

[classof2014]

Agree that Peters has played well, but don't understand all the negativity towards Capobianco.  His shooting percentages are great ... 6 of 8 from three point range?  If anything, he should be playing more and Bryce should be figuring out how to get him more attempts from behind the arc.

Other than that he hasn't done anything. He hasn't rebounded, he's turned it over, made some poor decisions shooting the ball. Somebody has to go to the bench once Carter is eligible. Dority has played well, Coleman has played well, Peters has played well, and Moussa has played well. Which leaves Bobby the odd man out. He has to realize his job is in jeopardy because he is being outpreformed. I don't know if the move is made right now but if he continues to preform poorly he is the most likely to lose his starting job once Carter is eligible.

[valpopal]

Bobby tries to do too much. He fouls often, turns it over, takes bad shots, and can't finish, other than that he's been good this season.

I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but Bobby has only 9 fouls in four games, an average just over 2, which is what he had today. He has had 9 turnovers in four games, the same average of just over 2, and he only had 1 today. He is shooting 53% on field goals and 75% from 3-point range for the four games. In fact, he has been the best 3-point shooter on the team. Those stats don't look like he's taking bad shots or not finishing. He is scoring almost 1 point for every 2 minutes he plays, third best and just behind Coleman and Dority.

PS: I just checked Bobby's stats for last year: he is playing 2 minutes more per game than last year, his 3-point shooting average is more than twice as good this year; his average points per game is 2 points higher; his free throw percentage is higher; his rebounding average is only down 0.5 per game and his field goal percentage is only down to 53% compared to 55% last year, even though he is not playing center this year.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Agree that Peters has played well, but don't understand all the negativity towards Capobianco.

groupthink

[StlVUFan]

Bobby had several failed attempts near the basket today and people got frustrated watching that.  I know I did.

That said, I saw him do some really good things too.

[valpotx]

Slow rotations by Bobby in the game, and I have no idea how it was only 1 turnover for him.  Someone must have been given a few of his by accident 

[Smj]

Id have to say that some of you are too negative on Bobby...  He is NOT a liability on the floor.  He just does not bring the flash of a Jordan.   

The   entire Ohio team had quick hands.   Not sure if I have ever seen the ball stripped out of a team's hands as much as it happened in this game.

Overall - I am more frustrated with the team not running set plays to get players open and their poor shot selection.   Not sure but it just did not seem like they were running plays.   Funny though - early in the season they looked better when they were playing more of a loose game with ally oops...  (different competition - I know - but they seemed to have a more flowing offense.)

[Dave_2010]

I was down at the game yesterday, and it was tough to watch at times. I can't remember who the quote is attributed to, but there is an old adage that you lose a game for every first year player you play big minutes. This was one of the games that is almost entirely attributable to the team's youth.

There were several points in yesterday's game were Lexus Williams looked absolutely lost on the floor. His two biggest issues were ball control and floor spacing. The most memorable was in the 2nd half: Lexus was in front of the Valpo bench near the corner, Bobby was supposed to set a screen to spring him for a basket cut. Bobby is yelling the entire way down the floor that he is out of position but Lexus never got his spacing right, the play doesn't work, and the possession ends in a turnover.

Hopefully this road trip will be a positive learning experience for the team. I think it's safe to say that Illinios, Ohio, and Evansville will be the three most hostile environments the team will face this season.

[valpo84]

Lexus also is missing badly on 3s. If you are air balling at least 4 and a couple barely grazings front rim, you need to learn your range or dribble closer and pull up. Give Ohio's D some credit, we have many learning the offensive set and they disrupted the set. We are still learning base O set and have not worked in Carolina or back door cuts off high post or other plays that you are familiar with for a group who had run the O for 3 years. Patience. I am very encouraged and Peters had 2 chances, Coleman 1 and Dority 1 to tie or take lead with a minute to play. bob Knight used to always preach give me the chance to win or tie in last possession in tough games. These are road games people against quality opponents (that you all wanted in scheduling). We have fought back from deficits of double digits. We have areas of improvement and that's good. Plus, we will need to work in a new player in December. Remember, we are in generally a 1-bid league and December is for Presents, March is for Championships.

[Kyle321n]

We committed 10 too many turnovers.  That's all the analysis of this game you need to do. 

Bobby is a trainwreck. 
1. He had at least 3 travel calls on "drives" to the hoop.  He shouldn't be trying to handle the ball up there. The announcers actually made a joke about it, saying "He isn't a guard, but he's trying to do guard things".
2. His 3ptm and percentage mask quite a bit. He's 5-13 from two. That's TERRIBLE for a supposed big. He's been bigger than every player that's defended him this year, and as we've seen from Vashil and Moussa, Bobby is the only one with back to the basket moves.  He should be inside doing the dirty work Kevin did last year. I thought pre-season that we'd be stronger inside with an improved Bobby but he's regressed to the early season of last year and #No3sBobby that we all hated.

#Some3sBobby needs to be put away for a while and we need February '13 Bobby. You know when he had 7 points and 5 boards per game, and when he shot 60% from the field and only took 4 threes and had 4 TOs in 8 games. Or when he took 4 threes in his THIRTY THREE shots for the month (By comparison he's got 8 threes in 21 shots).  Bobby isn't Rowdy, he should stop trying to play like him, focus on being a bigger version of KVW.

Hopefully this road trip will be a positive learning experience for the team. I think it's safe to say that Illinios, Ohio, and Evansville will be the three most hostile environments the team will face this season.

Yeah, Resch (UWGB) and Illinois will be the toughest places we play, imho. I don't think Evansville will be difficult since we should quiet the crowd early.

I'm imagining Detroit will be tougher than Ohio.  Ohio was dead during the second half, until we finally took the lead. It may be one of the top 10 places we play in terms of crowd noise, but that's all the higher I'd rate it. I'm guessing our conference games could prove to be more hostile locales (sans UIC)

[classof2014]

These games are learning experiences and this is how you gain experience. You lose some of these close contests on the road to tough teams. We're also doing it without a good PG. Dority isn't a PG and Williams still has work to do. Bobby isn't a 4, he's been hot from 3 but he'll probably cool down, he's not gonna shoot 75% for the season. I agree he needs to post up more and take the occasional outside shot, he travels all the time and makes poor decision. He's not a guard, he's a 6' 10" forward. Like you said we need the February version of Bobby from last year not this version.

[a3uge]

I'm imagining Detroit will be tougher than Ohio.  Ohio was dead during the second half, until we finally took the lead. It may be one of the top 10 places we play in terms of crowd noise, but that's all the higher I'd rate it. I'm guessing our conference games could prove to be more hostile locales (sans UIC)

Detroit wasn't very hostile last year, and that was the undisputed two top teams in the Horizon playing each other on national TV during "rivalry week." I can't imagine it'd be any more hostile this year.

I disagree with the notion that Bobby shouldn't be taking 3 pointers. Power forwards like Nowitzki, Love, and Ilyasova have all had success in the NBA with shooting the open 3, so unjustifiably comparing NBA players with a college player not going in the NBA, I think it's not out of the question a big guy can play a similar style of offense. The three I mention certainly don't LEAD the team in 3 pointers attempted and certainly aren't trying to be shooting guards, but they all have a high percentage. Ilyasova, for example, lead the Bucks in 3 pt % last year at 44%, but was only 5th on the team in attempted 3 pointers per 36 min. If you can make them at a high percentage and are given a high percentage opportunity, take them. As long as Bobby doesn't turn into Cory Johnson shooting 3's, I'm okay with him taking SOME threes as long as we're playing a center.

With that being said, I'm disappointed with his offense everywhere else. His mid-range game isn't there, and his around the basket game is non existent. We don't have anyone to replace KWV. Bobby, Vashil, and Gueye can't score by the basket. Bobby from late last year was able to score around the basket, so I know it's there. He's just in a funk. Maybe benching him will send a message that he needs to work harder down low. Hey, if KVW was able to tear it up under the basket with a smaller size and a bad back, Bobby should be able to have at least SOME success there as well.

[valpotx]

I asked this in the chat, but does anyone know why we haven't tried to run the KVW pass play?  The one where everyone is on the perimeter except the post, and he gets inside position to do a lay-up.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

1. He had at least 3 travel calls on "drives" to the hoop.

Take a gander at the box score.  1 TO.  Sorry, but I trust their counting over yours.

[Kyle321n]

1. He had at least 3 travel calls on "drives" to the hoop.

Take a gander at the box score.  1 TO.  Sorry, but I trust their counting over yours.

I specifically recall 2 travel calls on him, both in the first half.

1. Bobby catches the ball from Yeo with his back to the basket around the elbow. He turns takes two steps and tries to sell he was fouled and throws the ball up. Travel called since he took two steps and lifted his pivot foot.

2. Bobby gets the ball at the top of key.  Takes 2 steps to get to the free throw line and starts to dribble.  The announcers specifically call this one out saying he's trying to drive the lane like a guard and point out he's 6'10".

[LaPorteAveApostle]

not saying you didn't remember it.  I'm saying I trust things like this more than your memory, no offense.  check the pxp

http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/boxscore/2013-14/3999/valpo-vs-ohio-11-17-2013/

[valpotx]

Though the box score says 1 TO, I have the same recollection as Kyle, I am afraid.  I remember the two travel calls, so one had to be attributed to someone else by accident.  When I saw the 1 TO, it boggled my mind with some of the plays he made  .