Women's Team

[historyman]

[from the Tracey Dorow thread]

Opposite of the usual "stay close until the 2nd half" happened today. Valpo got behind by 17 in the first half. Another very bad shooting performance by the Crusaders. Then in the second half they stayed much closer (for the half) and only lost by 18.

They shot just over 50% from the FT line (16 for 28) and 35% from the field (22 for 63). The rebounds were totally even (44-44) and the FT attempts were the same (28-28). The big difference was WSU hit 20 FTs and 28 for 65 from the field. WSU made 4 threes while Valpo only had 2 threes. Neither team did well from beyond the arc.

It is time to think about a coaching change at this time. I feel that Coach Dorow is giving it her all but something is missing and if you don't win you haven't earned more time to keep coaching the team.

[valpopal]

[tweet]557237976926011393[/tweet]

[valporun]

We looked good in the first half. Were only down about 43-38 at half. Came out and had no energy to start, down 10, 48-38 with 18:14 remaining. Dani Franklin got her 1st career start, but hasn't been as huge a factor. She's definitely one to be the first woman off the bench, not a starter, yet. The Panthers are on a 21-3 run since the first half, and Dorow has 1 timeout left FOR THE GAME!!

[valporun]

The women kept up until the last 2 minutes. Once they had to start fouling on every Panther possession, it was over. The final score was 90-79. Better showing than some of the blowouts. Shots were falling, but the Panthers capitalized on the free throw line and on our turnovers. We played a good game tonight, and with a bench to put into the game, the Crusaders may have pulled this game out tonight.

[jack]

Miller 21. Franklin 22. Walker 10. Carr 13 AND 11 assist. (Nice game Carr) and we got beat. Why?? Because this coaching staff is lost. Why in the Hell would you play Karungi  those kind of minutes in a game like this? She adds no value to either side of the ball right now. She can't score, rebound, or hold on to the ball. She can't block out or get up the floor. This was a huge game for us to win and we had it. The coaches decisions in this one costs us the game. There were other players, any of them really, that gave us a better chance to win. Karungi isn't ready to play at this level. Not yet. The coaches should absolutely realize this. Shame on them. We wasted some great efforts by others. I feel terrible for the girls. This one in no way was on them.

[valpopal]

Miller 21. Franklin 22. Walker 10. Carr 13 AND 11 assist. (Nice game Carr) and we got beat. Why?? Because this coaching staff is lost. Why in the Hell would you play Karungi  those kind of minutes in a game like this? She adds no value to either side of the ball right now. She can't score, rebound, or hold on to the ball. She can't block out or get up the floor. This was a huge game for us to win and we had it. The coaches decisions in this one costs us the game. There were other players, any of them really, that gave us a better chance to win. Karungi isn't ready to play at this level. Not yet. The coaches should absolutely realize this. Shame on them. We wasted some great efforts by others. I feel terrible for the girls. This one in no way was on them.

I can't blame the coaches. They had no choice but to play Karungi (still not fully healthy) who did have a poor game. The Crusaders had only 8 players dressed, and Karungi was the only inside player on the bench. Hamilton, Thompson. Godwin, and Wiedemann were all sidelined with injury. In addition, Walker was in foul trouble and then fouled out. Thompson most likely would have gotten the minutes Karungi had to fill.


Nevertheless, as you mention, there were some great efforts. Lexi Miller had a career-high 21. Carr had a double-double in points and assists. Walker had a double-double in points and rebounds. Also, Dani Franklin started for the first time ever and showed why she will be a star in the league, scoring 22 points to go along with 6 rebounds and 2 blocks. As a whole, the team shot 46% from the field, 57% from the 3-point line, and 86% from the free throw line. They were under-manned and on the road, yet they hung in the game until the very end, getting as close as 84-79, then they had to begin fouling in the last minute of play.

[jack]

We had better talent on the floor regardless of injuries. We've been beaten several times this season with better talent on the floor. Quit making excuses. At some point something needs to change in the direction this talent is being led. Karungi not withstanding, we are losing to lessor teams while having better talent on the floor. Wake up.

[valpopal]

We had better talent on the floor regardless of injuries. We've been beaten several times this season with better talent on the floor. Quit making excuses. At some point something needs to change in the direction this talent is being led. Karungi not withstanding, we are losing to lessor teams while having better talent on the floor. Wake up.

I don't recall making any excuse. I agreed with you that Karungi played poorly, and I agreed that there were a number of "great efforts." However, I disagreed with your conclusion that the coaches were to blame for playing a not-fully healed Sharon, explaining that they had no choice and a healthy Thompson normally would have gotten the minutes Karungi did, but Thompson was out with an injury. You said "there were other players, any of them really, that gave us a better chance to win." I looked at the bench, and I didn't see any other players to put in the paint. The bench consisted only of Hamlet, Donchetz, and Karungi.


Valpo lost because of the difference in offensive rebounds and points in the paint, as well as the best talent on the floor being Milwaukee's senior Ashley Green, second best scorer and fifth best rebounder in the league. In the future, a couple of our freshmen should be recording numbers like hers.

[valpotx]

Karungi showed last year that she is a good player, and very worthy of a D-1 roster spot.  I don't know if you are saying that she is not good enough for this level, but if you are, you are wrong.  She had some really dominant games last year, when healthy.

[jack]

Karungi s issues started last season long before any injuries. The issues last night were with her hands. She can't hang on to the ball. Has nothing to do with her injury. Early last season she played with passion. Don't see it this year. She shouldn't have been on the floor last night. We have played and had success with fewer players.
As others have mentioned, we have talent, just lack direction. It's time to quit giving this staff a hall pass and hold them accoutable for their record. The games have been there to win. They aren't getting it done.

[valpopal]

She shouldn't have been on the floor last night.

You didn't answer my question. You fault the coaches for putting Sharon in the game. Who would you have substituted for the inside players? There were only three on the bench: Hamlet, Donchetz, and Karungi. Normally, Thompson and Hamilton would get the minutes. In the recent Wright State game those two combined for 50 minutes while Karungi played 7. In this game, the coaches had no other choice with Hamilton and Thompson joining Wiedemann and Godwin on the injured list, and with three of the starters in foul trouble. You can't blame the coaches for putting in the only player they have available.

[jack]

In my opinion, Hamlet would have done far better inside than Karungi. She's quick, active, and has a nose for the ball. She has better hands. Karungi struggled to even get her hands on the balls, and when she did, several times she got it taken away by smaller players. She's able to get up and down the floor, so her injury isn't why she's struggling. She's getting pushed off the block on almost every play. We played several games last season and before with 6 to 7 players. Karungi was a huge liability in last nights game. She doesn't have the drive or confidence to be on the floor right now. Unfortunately for her, there is no next year with Valpo. We need her now. It just isn't happening. My point about the coaching is one that has been made here by others as well, and has been a point well prior to last nights game. When you have the talent we have, we can't settle for the win / loss records we've recorded the past 3 years. Year one is understandable. New coach. New system. We should be seeing marked improvement each year. I believe we have more talent now than we had in Freeman's last 2 seasons. He played one year with 6 available players several games and we managed some wins. We go in 2 down vs Wright State at the half and lose by 20. We've gone into the first several minutes of many games this season and found ourselves down by 10+. At some point this can't be acceptable. Our coaches have not shown they can make needed adjustments when we need to. You want to keep blaming the players so be it. If you want to accept losses from lessor teams, so be it. I hate to think what our lack of success these past few years has cost us in player recruits. We will never have a strong inside game until we can show we know how to coach and play the bigs. We are squandering much of our talent because we are not using them, and teaching them how to play big.
I am not trying to single out Karungi. This isn't just about her. We are getting beat by teams that are getting more out of less. Something needs to change.   

[valpo4life]

Saying Hamlet is a better option inside is laughable. She's a small guard, why on Earth would you suggest she's a better post player than Karungi. I think this game showed the value of Thompson inside, however. As frustrating as she can be sometimes making a post move, she battles harder than anyone in the paint every game. And her rebounding (or at least contesting for rebounds) and defense inside were missed.

The something that needs to change is we need to take care of the ball and defend. I think we can all agree the offense has been getting us good looks a majority of the time the past couple games. We just give up way too many easy looks when we're on defense. Until we improve on that side of the ball, we aren't going to win too many games. We get beat off the drive a lot so maybe a switch to zone would help. Pack it in and force them to hit shots from the outside. Gotta try something different.

As far as the coaching, you cannot bash them for playing someone due to injury of another player. Their hand was forced and they simply had no choice. If we have Thompson we win this game pretty easily in my opinion. If Dean and Walker aren't in foul trouble we might even win without her. Dean just needs to stop getting early fouls every single game. She gets 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes then messes up any kind of rotation. She started this game well then got into foul trouble, but when she's on the court and playing confident she makes us a much better team. Just look at the first couple games of the season.

[jack]

Never said she was a better post player. Read what I said. I said she was a better option last night. She always manages to get to the ball. that's what we needed.
Again you're contradicting yourself. You say it isn't the coaches, and then say they need to try something different. Which is it?
Our problem isn't talent. It's philosophical.

[valpo4life]

I just disagreed with your statement about her being the better option. The way you went on about how poor Karungi is for multiple sentences made it seem as if you thought Hamlet could be a better post player. But either way the shortest player on the roster isn't a replacement for a post. I said you can't bash the coaches for playing someone due to the injury of another player. Their hand was forced. Never mentioned anything else regarding them besides agreeing we should try something different defensively. That's not a contradiction.

[valpopal]

Suggesting you would have put Hamlet, the shortest player on the team, in the post diminishes your credibility. In addition, even if you wanted, Hamlet wasn't available to play in the post unless you were going to clone her since she was needed to sub for the guards throughout the game.


I understand your frustration, but we have to be realistic and acknowledge this team simply is not as strong as others in the league, especially some that have senior all-stars. Our post player is not fully healthy, and we are under-manned because of other injuries. There were only 8 players dressed for the game last night. The subs were two freshmen, one coming back from surgery, and a hobbled Karungi. The best players on the team are freshmen. In fact, we often have four freshmen on the court.


Franklin and Walker will be future stars in the league, and I look forward to their growth. The team is also getting at least one more very good player in next year's class. If someone can eventually step into the post as a presence, Valpo will be a contender in the future. Until then, I am pleased by the strong effort and fine performances as seen by most of the players in last night's game, even if it was a loss.

[bbtds]

There were only 8 players dressed for the game last night. The subs were two freshmen, one coming back from surgery, and a hobbled Karungi.

I'm not going to question whether a player is hurt or not but it does seem that every time I read stories about this team there are far more injuries than on the opposition team. Valpo seems to always play short-handed. This goes back to when Keith Freeman was the head coach.

[Kyle321n]

There were only 8 players dressed for the game last night. The subs were two freshmen, one coming back from surgery, and a hobbled Karungi.

I'm not going to question whether a player is hurt or not but it does seem that every time I read stories about this team there are far more injuries than on the opposition team. Valpo seems to always play short-handed. This goes back to when Keith Freeman was the head coach.

Maybe it's time we stop blaming the coaching staff and start blaming the training staff*

*Please note I'm entirely joking, don't know anything about the women's team or women's basketball

[valpotx]

How can Hamlet be the better option when she is shooting 27.5% from the floor?  I understand taking care of the ball, but someone shooting that low of a % is also considered a liability on offense.  I'll admit that I haven't seen Karungi play this year, as the games I caught were before she came back, but she was better last year than you are giving her credit for.  I understand that she had a few off nights shooting last season (rare), but her play for the majority of the year kept us in games.  Her stats:

11 ppg, 7.6 rpg, .532 Fg, .689 FT, 0.8 bpg, 1/3 Asst/TO ratio.  Where in the world are you getting that we haven't had good inside players?  Karungi was fantastic last year, and obviously has the ability to play at this level when healthy.  Before transferring/graduating, Tabitha Gerardot was fantastic as well.  Now, we haven't had good post players aplenty, but it has been shown that we can have successful post players in the program. 

[jack]

The comment was made somewhat in jest but the point was, anyone else available and sitting on the bench would have done a better job underneath protecting the ball and running down rebounds that Karungi did that night. When you center ends up with 0 points and 4 boards in 20 minutes, there's an issue.
I'm done with the subject. Most here want to blame the players for the vanilla, non-creative offenses we run, and the lack of adjustments we make to match what the opponents are doing to beat us. So be it. Next year will just be more of the same.

[historyman]

I'll admit that I haven't seen Karungi play this year, as the games I caught were before she came back, but she was better last year than you are giving her credit for.  I understand that she had a few off nights shooting last season (rare), but her play for the majority of the year kept us in games. 

Since coming back from injury Sharon Karungi has been pretty bad. If any of our posts could hang onto the ball when receiving passes or making moves to the basket we would be much better.

Jack may have been exaggerating about putting in Hamlet instead of Karungi but he is pretty much spot on about the coaching staff. 

I'm not sure what is going on with Abby Dean. She seemed like her athletic skills were going to lead this team to many victories but somehow she just disappears during games. With Hamlet and Carr's shooting, the posts inability to hang on to the ball, the coaching staff's inability to make smart, in game, adjustments, some of the very tough non-conference competition we have faced and the problems with being short-handed, this season has gone from fair/good to poor.

[IndyValpo]

What happened to Hamilton?  Is Wiedemann done for the season?  Perhaps it is time to find Jazmin Taylor again as we need healthy bodies.

Interestingly, Butler who we pounded oh so many games ago added a volleyball player (who starts) and is playing better. We would probably not beat them today.

[jack]

15pts in first half?? 15?? Not sure anymore if this can be considered a D1 team. 0 inside game. Feel bad for the kids that are really giving effort. Coaches are clueless. Nuf said.

[KL31NY]

On a whim, I decided to pull up WVUR and listen to the game tonight. I wish I hadn't. UIC wins 60-42.

When you have a scoring drought of nearly 11 minutes, miss about 20 layups (at least what the stats call layups), and allow roughly as many offensive boards to your opponent as your own defensive rebounds, it's gonna be a tough night. And yet, there were still hanging around until UIC started to pull away in the middle of the 2nd half. Also didn't help that Anne Hamilton took an elbow to the nose and sat out the 2nd half.

This is now 14 straight losses to DI opponents. Also (no surprise) a season-low for scoring. Yuck.

Also, anyone else catch the live pregame interview with Dorow? Weird to have that from a head coach about 30 minutes before tipoff, but it was kinda fun to have it.

[vu72]

out rebounded by 15 and 20 turnovers.  Um...