Valpo at Evansville--11/20/2013 Wednesday--8:00 p.m. CST--Game Thread

[Smj]

Agree and disagree about playing tough on the road.    (played the second half tough on the road. ..)   looked like division II team in the first half of all three - I think. ...

Bryce needs to look at what is causing the problem in the first half because we can't afford to get in the hole early.

[classof2014]

We're going to be fine. We could've easily gone 3-0 on this road trip. In the first half if we don't turn the ball over we probably win. In each of the past 3 games we could've easily folded and lost by 20+ in each game. This team never quits. Nobody ever said winning is gonna come easy. These games will pay-off come February and March. This team has a lot of talent and played a complete 2nd half and showed us what they can do. We had 12 turnovers in the first half and only 3 in the second. That was the difference in the game today. These are the growing pains you go through as a young team but most young teams would've folded and lost 85 to 60 in a game like this. Instead we never quit and nearly came back. I'm proud the way they played in the 2nd half. That being said we need to start on the right foot instead of get ourselves into a hole, I won't be shocked to see some new faces starting. Moussa completely stalls out the offense in my opinion, Bobby should be moved to the 5. He made some good moves under the basket and looked good in the post.

They come back home for 4 straight now, unfortunately they're all over break but we should do a lot better with HL refs. One thing we can take away from this game Alec has the potential to the be the best EVER player to put on the brown & gold.

This was a frustrating road trip. The silver lining is that we are doing this all without a true PG, and KC might be our best player once eligible. We came back in every one of these games and could have easily won all of these games. This team is young, they have a ton of potential and I don't see why they can't win the HL. These type of games will pay off come the end of the season when close games mean something. Yes, it would've been nice to win but you need to learn how to win before we can win. We're still learning and we're still young. We played 3 very good programs on the road and put up a fight in each of these games when we could have easily folded.

Frustrating? Of course

Encouraging? Yes

[wh]

Alec was the best player on the court - hands down.  He out shot Balentine and far more of his points came in crunch time.  An amazing performance! 

Does anyone know the last time a true Valpo freshman scored 30 points or more?

I may have answered my own question.  Raitis Grafs scored 30 points in an 89-86 win over Belmont on January 10, 2000, his freshman year.  He was 11-12 from the field, 8-10 FT's, and had 13 rebounds.  It was his only 30 point performance of the season.  In fact, his next 2 highest scoring games that year were 18 and 14.  For the record, neither Lubos nor Dan Oppland had 30-pt. games in their freshman years.  I don't know about Bryce.

[a3uge]

At the very least, this game proves that Valpo has a good amount of talent, but just need to put the pieces together and play 4 full quarters... or even two complete halves.

Peters, don't even need to say anything about him. Jubril proved that he can be effective coming off the bench. Capo isn't completely awful and can play down low. I think the first half was made considerably worse by Evansville's ridiculous shooting. They may have had open looks, but good god, 75% from the 3 pt line is crazy. In the end, Valpo shot 61.4% to Evansville's 61.1%. Evansville was 25-34 from the line, which was good enough to salt away the game when Valpo went on the crazy run at the end. Valpo only got to the line 15 times, which is pretty low in 2013 NCAA basketball. It's impressive that Valpo was able to dig themselves out of the enormous hole they were in, but the hole shouldn't have been that big to begin with.

Edit: Also, Capo was +34 and Jubril +16.

[bbtds]

I knew there were going to be frustrating games but this was one of the most frustrating games we have played.

Also lets not schedule Evansville in the Ford Center until they play twice at the ARC. There has to be some kind of punishment/reminder that they hire officials that are easy influenced by the home crowds. This is 3 times now where the officials have called too inconsistent of calls. One minute they were calling the touch fouls and the next they weren't. Maybe Valpo should have been called for more fouls then the Aces but a 10 foul difference, even when starting to foul with 1.5 minutes left to stop the clock, is way to uneven of a foul difference. In a game where each team played with about the same type of intensity and physical toughness there shouldn't be that much of a difference in fouls. I don't know how Evansville learns to pick the officials that are most detrimental to Valpo but they do and the only way to stop it is to have them play on your team's court.   

EDIT-ADD ON: In a game that Evanville played on the road at IUPUI the Aces were called for 24 fouls while IUPUI was called for 23 fouls. Most of the time it's true that the home team gets an advantage in fouls called but a 10 foul difference is an awful lot. I can see it happening once or twice but it seems to be consistent at Evansville that they get less fouls called on them than their opponent.

[justducky]

I am beginning to think that my 4 and 5 prediction for Nov might be too optimistic. Is it too early to start talking about next year yet?

Don't be crazy.

You are asking for the impossible but ok, next time I say something that is totally outrageous I will force myself reluctantly to attach a smiley face. But wait----I think my pre-season prediction was that everything would start coming together in mid to late January and that is next year is it not? 

In the meantime Bryce and the team still have a lot of trial and error, then practice-practice-practice, then even more teaching and learning in order to get to where they need to be. That is the critical task for this November with the wins and losses being far less important than they were last season.

[historyman]

I am beginning to think that my 4 and 5 prediction for Nov might be too optimistic. Is it too early to start talking about next year yet?

Don't be crazy.  Look, we have had some struggles at times....are you really surprised by that, given all the new faces in the rotation?

THIS.

I don't think we can say that just because Keith Carter plays in a game that because he will score so and so number of points means that will make up all 8 points difference in a game like Evansville. Remember that the points of the player that doesn't get to play must be replaced also.

[chef]

If my memory is correct. Bryce scored 29 in his second collegiate game, which was at Hinkle. I can't recall him scoring more than 29 in any game that season. Great call about Raitis. I had not thought of that game, but it sounds familiar now. Lubos did have 27 vs South Carolina in his first collegiate game. That stood as his career high until his Sr. season.

[StlVUFan]

I am beginning to think that my 4 and 5 prediction for Nov might be too optimistic. Is it too early to start talking about next year yet?

Don't be crazy.  Look, we have had some struggles at times....are you really surprised by that, given all the new faces in the rotation?

THIS.

I don't think we can say that just because Keith Carter plays in a game that because he will score so and so number of points means that will make up all 8 points difference in a game like Evansville. Remember that the points of the player that doesn't get to play must be replaced also.

1.  If you leave that sentence with me, I can have it shortened for you by Sunday.
2.  You are responding to something I didn't quote and didn't respond to.
3.  Thus I have no idea what this has to do with ARCInsider's point, which if I'm representing correctly, I agree with: it boggles my mind how ballistic some folks are tonight, as if we're shocked that this team is wildly inconsistent.

I didn't call it at the beginning of the season, but I think it's becoming more obvious 5 games in: it is foolish to project anything about this team.  There is a volatility to a roster that, even in its seniority, has very little experience playing together.  Bobby, LaVonte, Jordan (am I missing anyone) may be seniors, but they really don't have a lot of time in as Valpo players, and none of them have had to shoulder the role of team leader.  This is what happens when you lose your starting 5 and 6th man off the bench all in one fell swoop.  They're seniors, but none of them had to put the team on their shoulders last year, and before that they were elsewhere.  So you have guys who are seniors but not a lot of leadership experience, mixed with a bunch of young guys just out of high school.  When Keith Carter becomes active, will he have had much leadership experience at St. Louis?  I don't know but I'm thinking no.

The point is, it makes perfect sense that this team is looking unreliable right now.  Wildly inconsistent maybe.  I don't (and didn't) object to any of the critiques of the team that I ran into tonight.  I"m just amazed that people are shocked, that's all.

I for one look forward to watching this season continue to unfold.  How is the season going to turn out?  I'll get back to you in March on that one.

[historyman]

You're correct. I did quote the wrong statement. I was responding to a statement about how Valpo will suddenly win with Keith Carter at the PG position. I don't think we Valpo fans should be investing so much in Keith Carter being the final peice of the puzzle. He is not. This will just lead to more frustration. Once Carter starts playing I predict a break in period for him with the rest of the team and continued frustration on the part of many Valpo fans.

[StlVUFan]

You're correct. I did quote the wrong statement. I was responding to a statement about how Valpo will suddenly win with Keith Carter at the PG position. I don't think we Valpo fans should be investing so much in Keith Carter being the final peice of the puzzle. He is not. This will just lead to more frustration. Once Carter starts playing I predict a break in period for him with the rest of the team and continued frustration on the part of many Valpo fans.

OK, no problem, and I agree with you pretty much.

[Smj]

I was not expecting us to win everything...    I have thought this could be a long year for valpo fans all along.    However,  something in the mix is not right and that is for the coaching staff to figure out.   I think the talent is there - maybe just not combined right? ??   Definitely rebuilding team and reloading talent.

I have seen a team that has fought back in 3 games.    (second half team?)   why - and what is happening in the second half that needs to start earlier?   Should Bryce change starters?    I remember when Buggs lost his starting spot and his game elevated last year.    Maybe that would work.

Capo looks much better in the post - keep him there.  Moussa should not be starting - rather never get the jump and start the game well.   Alec had a great game and will be one of the best in the conference - he did not just "let the game come to him" in this game.   Lexus may be young as our starting point but he usually runs it well.    Jubril had been a spark a few times - I think I like what I see there.  Clay is tenacious. ... Again - I really like the talent on this team.   We just need to start better.

★
Maybe we should just start games by spotting our opponent 15 points then...   We will have a little more time to dig ourselves out of the hole.

[wh]

I was not expecting us to win everything...    I have thought this could be a long year for valpo fans all along.    However,  something in the mix is not right and that is for the coaching staff to figure out.   I think the talent is there - maybe just not combined right? ??   Definitely rebuilding team and reloading talent.

I have seen a team that has fought back in 3 games.    (second half team?)   why - and what is happening in the second half that needs to start earlier?   Should Bryce change starters?    I remember when Buggs lost his starting spot and his game elevated last year.    Maybe that would work.

Capo looks much better in the post - keep him there.  Moussa should not be starting - rather never get the jump and start the game well.   Alec had a great game and will be one of the best in the conference - he did not just "let the game come to him" in this game.   Lexus may be young as our starting point but he usually runs it well.    Jubril had been a spark a few times - I think I like what I see there.  Clay is tenacious. ... Again - I really like the talent on this team.   We just need to start better.

★
Maybe we should just start games by spotting our opponent 15 points then...   We will have a little more time to dig ourselves out of the hole.

It sounds like Bryce is starting to come to the same conclusion.  This from Paul Oren's blog:

Quotable -- "We'll definitely evaluate where we are in terms of the starting lineup and we were are in terms of putting players in the best situations where we can be successful."


Part 1 suggests to me that Saturday's starting line-up will look different.  Part 2 tells me that Bobby will be playing center. 

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/wrapping-up-evansville/article_bbfe76cc-526b-11e3-b24b-001a4bcf887a.html

[wh]

The combined impact of our 4 beginning freshmen on this game was nothing short of amazing:

- played 93 of our 200 team minutes (47%)
- scored 48 of our 92 points (52%)
- were a combined 18 of 29 from the field (62%)
- had 12 of our 17 assists (71%)
- had 3 of our 4 steals (75%)
- only committed 4 of our 15 turnovers (27%)

[classof2014]

I'm guess Bobby will be at the 5 next game. He looked comfortable down low, he can still step outside to take the occasional shot. He's not a 4 and I think the past few games proved that. The only thing Moussa is good for is his defense but when they don't have a big scorer down low he's next to useless. I think it was a terrible pickup because he just complicates things. This team has a lot of talent and the lineup out there in the 2nd half looked great. We can't keep digging us these big holes.

My prediction for the starting lineup Saturday is, Dority, Yeo, Coleman, Peters, and Capo.

Let us not forget in our 3 big road games last year we lost all of them. And only one of those games was winnable at the end.

Nebraska 50-48
Saint Louis 62-49
New Mexico 65-52

Based on last years team, I like where we're at. We still have some big games left. Mercer, 2 against UCF, and STL at home. So we still have plenty of quality opponents left. Let's not forget how blessed we are to have a freshmen class that's able to play like this. I think this freshmen class is more than capable to take Valpo to the next level of mid-majors, in the next few years.

The only place we have to go is up from here.

[78crusader]

Moussa and Vasil cannot play -- as I said last spring -- and we'd be better off short term and long term if the didn't play.

Paul

[covufan]

If my memory is correct. Bryce scored 29 in his second collegiate game, which was at Hinkle.

Was at that game and thought "Wow, this kid can play".  Bryce single handedly kept us in the game towards the end, if my memory serves (which it doesn't as much anymore!).

[truth219]

Not that I'm disagreeing but if Moussa and vashil didn't play who would sub in for Bobby

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[a3uge]

Moose and Capo will be in perpetual foul trouble that both of them will split minutes with Vashil getting some time as well.

[SanityLost17]

Once Carter becomes eligible I see our most effective lineup looking something like this. 

1 guard = Carter (25min) Lexus (15min)
2 guard = Dority (25min) Yeo (10min) Carter (5min) 
3 guard = Coleman (30min) Peters (5min) Yeo (5min)
4 forward = Peters (25min) Jubril (10min) Bobby (5min)
5 center = Bobby (20min) Gueye (10min) Vashil (10min)

Breakdown:
Peters = 30 minutes
Carter = 30 minutes
Coleman = 30 minutes
Dority = 25 minutes
Bobby = 25 minutes
Yeo = 15 minutes
Vashil = 10 minutes
Gueye = 10 minutes
Jubril = 10 minutes

Nobody over 30 minutes a game allows us to keep up defensive intensity.  Allows for several different styles of play depending on who is in at what times.  Bobby can have a few set plays at the 4 for some open 3's.  Vashil and Jubril still gets some vital playing time to prepare for increased minutes next year.   

[valpotx]

I like that breakdown of minutes and roles.  You left off Lexus' 15 minutes in your summary though.

[a3uge]

I feel Jubril might get more minutes if Capo is playing center like we saw at the end of last game. This allows Valpo to maintain a little bit of size without being forced into playing a center that can't play offensively around the basket. The frontcourt of Capo - Jubril - Peters seems like a good idea to try out again in the future.

[chef]

Before the last game, the general feeling on this forum was Bobby is done, he should sit on the end of the bench, and Vashil needs to play more. 24 hours later, the consensus is, Bobby is our five man and should play 25 minutes a game, and Vashil is not ready to contribute. Anybody think there's just a tad bit overreacting going on from game to game??

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I totally agree, but since I was always on the Bobbyboat, I wouldn't ever call anyone out for agreeing with me.  I just made room for y'all.

[justducky]

Listening to Todds radio call (while very good) just doesn't fill in all the details. Could somebody give me some ballpark % numbers of the second half time that Evansville played man to man vs zone? While Jubril was playing against a man defense was it at the 3, the 4 or with he and Alec both in the game is there much if any difference? Most importantly, what % of our second half defense was man to man?