Saint Louis @ Valpo, Sat., Dec. 7th, 7:05 p.m. Game Thread

[valpotx]

I am cracking up at SLU's board mentioning that they should blow us out.  I love the cockiness of teams from larger conferences.  Looking at the replay of that final play on their board, it looks like the time it takes for someone to push the button to start the clock was our nemesis.  It appears that 0.1-0.2 seconds should have come off by the time the clock started.  I wish I hadn't looked at it as it is close, but it does appear the clock operator needs better Nascar reaction times  :

Mike McCall Jr. Wins it at the Buzzer

Edit: Crap, watch Lexus on this!  You should have been running to the basket Lexus, not slow jogging behind your guy!

[HC]

His uber athleticism bails us out sometimes, I remember the one you are talking about and thought it was probably a poor shot choice since there was plenty of time left on the shot clock, although he did make a very similar one a few possessions earlier.

I thought Capo, Vashil and Gueye all played great defensively....passing the ball on offense was another story, but on defense SLu just stopped going in the paint for quite a while in the second half.

[HC]

I bet that is a mistake he only makes once, a kind of "pecker rule" there for the freshman.

[78crusader]

How was the crowd?

Paul

[HC]

Student section filled up, I wasn't disappointed with the crowd.

[bbtds]

Student section filled up, I wasn't disappointed with the crowd.

I was terribly disappointed with the season ticket holders. They don't seem to show up in total for the toughest opponent of the year or the athletic dept wants them to be able to spread out. Why not sell the empty seats in chairbacks?

[wh]

St. Louis was picked to finish 2nd in the A-10 behind VCU.  They have WAY more experienced players than we do, and yet we took them to the wire.  Throw Keith Carter into the mix, and there's no doubt we win this game.  Oh well...

To the SLU fan or fans who think they should have blown us out, let me give you a little reality check.  Your team was completely dominated on the boards tonight.  Your 2 6-11 white stiff centers are terrible.  The moppy haired white guy on your team (Barnett?) needs an attitude adjustment.  He yelled at other of your players several times, told one of your guys lined up across from him on a free throw to worry about himself when the guy tried to tell him something, cried and rolled his eyes every time he was called for a foul when he was badly beaten off the dribble, and I almost forgot, he's terrible too.  Last, but not least, apparently your team didn't get the message that you can't body up and manhandle an opposing player with the ball this year.  Some of the fouls your team committed in the first half were downright silly.  Oh, and just a suggestion, you might want to publish the rule changes on your message board about blocking vs. charging to educate your fans that were at the game and were obviously clueless every time they moaned and groaned when their heroes were called for blocking.  Just trying to help.  Good luck this season.  We are going to need all the help we can get from your RPI.

[justducky]

I thought Capo, Vashil and Gueye all played great defensively....passing the ball on offense was another story, but on defense SLu just stopped going in the paint for quite a while in the second half.

Those 3 played a total of 63 minutes tonight which is about 12 minutes above average. They also pulled down 26 of our 53 rebounds and 11 of our 20 offensive rebounds. Their total of 5 of the 17 turnovers in their 63 minutes is actually  not that bad! Looked like S.L . decided to shut down our outside shooting and see if we could beat them in the paint and off our drives.  Well- almost!

Coleman played a lot of minutes tonight because we needed his length and speed defensively. I personally think that he will break out one of these nights and start putting good numbers on the board on a regular basis. In the meantime I have been getting a little impatient as well.

[Billikenswon]

St. Louis was picked to finish 2nd in the A-10 behind VCU.  They have WAY more experienced players than we do, and yet we took them to the wire.  Throw Keith Carter into the mix, and there's no doubt we win this game.  Oh well...

To the SLU fan or fans who think they should have blown us out, let me give you a little reality check.  Your team was completely dominated on the boards tonight.  Your 2 6-11 white stiff centers are terrible.  The moppy haired white guy on your team (Barnett?) needs an attitude adjustment.  He yelled at other of your players several times, told one of your guys lined up across from him on a free throw to worry about himself when the guy tried to tell him something, cried and rolled his eyes every time he was called for a foul when he was badly beaten off the dribble, and I almost forgot, he's terrible too.  Last, but not least, apparently your team didn't get the message that you can't body up and manhandle an opposing player with the ball this year.  Some of the fouls your team committed in the first half were downright silly.  Oh, and just a suggestion, you might want to publish the rule changes on your message board about blocking vs. charging to educate your fans that were at the game and were obviously clueless every time they moaned and groaned when their heroes were called for blocking.  Just trying to help.  Good luck this season.  We are going to need all the help we can get from your RPI.

I'm a big basketball fan and i know good basketball when i see it and your team is decent... had the Billikens played good basketball this would have been a 10 point win at least... this should have not came down to the last shot we are the superior team and for u to think otherwise is quite ludicrous... Keith Carter is good but he is no savior like you think

[FWalum]

Hind sight is always 20/20 and in this case watching the replay I see 3 things I really don't like.  How this long pass is completed is beyond me. We had 5 on 4 in their end of the floor with a defender for every offensive player and an extra defender to double the ball. 

1) I have never been a big fan of prevent defenses that let the quarterback sit in the pocket without pressure... ahh wrong sport but same principle, I think not pressuring the inbounds passer really helps the possibility of this long 53 foot pass being completed. He could have never have thrown that pass that way (a long two handed chest pass) if he had a defender on him.   

2) Who is suppose to be guarding Loe?  It looks like we have Peters playing center field and he thinks the ball is going to Jett so he moves to initially double in that direction while Moussa isn't going to guard Loe that far from the basket letting Loe come up to receive the pass. Perhaps this was thought to be acceptable, that Loe was not a threat and that Peters would roam to the more dangerous offensive player.  If that was the case then Peters committed way to early to Jett's side of the floor. 

3) We had some ball watchers on that last play.  The Freshman have played very well, no doubt about it, but this should be a learning moment for Lexus because his man gets in position to get the rebound while Lexus is so enamored by what is happening that he just watches events unfold and VU unfortunately loose the game. Lexus could have easily blocked him out if he had not be just watching.

This team has heart and fights to be bitter end.  Very proud of our young men.  Pretty soon they will start winning these hotly contested close games I am sure of it.

[FWalum]

I'm a big basketball fan and i know good basketball when i see it and your team is decent... had the Billikens played good basketball this would have been a 10 point win at least... this should have not came down to the last shot we are the superior team and for u to think otherwise is quite ludicrous... Keith Carter is good but he is no savior like you think

Wow, what an arrogant thing to say... when teams don't play "good" basketball it normally has a little something to do with the other team.  Perhaps our out rebounding you by 22 had a little something to do with that. 

I really liked Rick Majerus and what he did for your program. I back mid major teams versus the BCS big conferences all the time.  Are you guys a better team? I would hope so considering we start 3 freshman and you start 5 seniors.  Is the gap as big as you seem to thing it is? Most certainly not.  Did we play "good" basketball?  No, we did not play to our potential, but then your ball pressure defense had a little something to do with that.  Do we need Keith Carter to be a savior?  I don't think so, but if he can give us a couple more assists and say... an additional 4 points per game then this team probably would have lost just one or two games.  That doesn't sound like savior numbers to me and for you to think that this scenario is not entirely possible would be quite... lets say... ludicrous.

[wh]

St. Louis was picked to finish 2nd in the A-10 behind VCU.  They have WAY more experienced players than we do, and yet we took them to the wire.  Throw Keith Carter into the mix, and there's no doubt we win this game.  Oh well...

To the SLU fan or fans who think they should have blown us out, let me give you a little reality check.  Your team was completely dominated on the boards tonight.  Your 2 6-11 white stiff centers are terrible.  The moppy haired white guy on your team (Barnett?) needs an attitude adjustment.  He yelled at other of your players several times, told one of your guys lined up across from him on a free throw to worry about himself when the guy tried to tell him something, cried and rolled his eyes every time he was called for a foul when he was badly beaten off the dribble, and I almost forgot, he's terrible too.  Last, but not least, apparently your team didn't get the message that you can't body up and manhandle an opposing player with the ball this year.  Some of the fouls your team committed in the first half were downright silly.  Oh, and just a suggestion, you might want to publish the rule changes on your message board about blocking vs. charging to educate your fans that were at the game and were obviously clueless every time they moaned and groaned when their heroes were called for blocking.  Just trying to help.  Good luck this season.  We are going to need all the help we can get from your RPI.

I'm a big basketball fan and i know good basketball when i see it and your team is decent... had the Billikens played good basketball this would have been a 10 point win at least... this should have not came down to the last shot we are the superior team and for u to think otherwise is quite ludicrous... Keith Carter is good but he is no savior like you think

Sorry, but you're not going to get any accolades from me. I read all 18 pages on your game thread and not 1 comment from anyone on your board giving Valpo any credit for doing anything good. Just the usual dose of arrogance and condescension from a bunch of knuckleheads. Your comment is no better. Had you played your game you would have won by 10 points, as if we had nothing to do with you not playing up to your capability. I hate to break the news to you, but your "superior" team looked very underwhelming.  In fact, our zone never looked better. Have a superior evening.

[justducky]

I think that I could argue that VU would be a significantly better team if only we had another attack the basket mentality player who could spell LaVonte for 7 or 8 minutes at the 2 and maybe help secure our backup point play as well. Darn the luck! What a shame! We just never seem to have all the necessary pieces to the puzzle!!

Well maybe next year, or maybe even late December.

[bbtds]

I really think a key for SLU was playing great D on Alec Peters. They essentially shut down Alec until that late 3 that some how found it's way through the net. I knew the greatest asset the Billikens had was the very stingy defense. It showed in Valpo's point total being well below the Crusaders usual offensive production.

[bbtds]

His uber athleticism bails us out sometimes, I remember the one you are talking about and thought it was probably a poor shot choice since there was plenty of time left on the shot clock, although he did make a very similar one a few possessions earlier.

I thought Capo, Vashil and Gueye all played great defensively....passing the ball on offense was another story, but on defense SLu just stopped going in the paint for quite a while in the second half.

I think Lexus crumpled some what under the pressure of the Billikens very tough defense. He certainly wasn't totally shut down from penetrating but LaVonte was much better at penetrating when it counted.

[bbtds]

 2 stories written in the St Louis Post Dispatch:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/glaze-does-less-gives-more-to-slu/article_3d49e355-d082-554c-abb8-a7538c13e47a.html


http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/slu-wins-one-at-the-buzzer/article_234e35c5-77fc-57c9-b0df-34408cbe0e25.html

[LaPorteAveApostle]

The one moment tonight that sticks out was when we cut the lead to 4 for the first time. Back to back possessions Coleman blew attempts to score one being an airball dunk.

i'm with you, man.  you're exactly right.  it's maybe a fine play in other circumstances, but when you've never led, and you've wasted too many possessions, and you've been struggling mightily to get back...just careless.

[truth219]

Why didn't he just lay it in?

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[truth219]

The worst was the two 5 second violation calls. We have to be able to inbounds the ball.

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[truth219]

Off topic working on this pipeline job is a drag. Yes the money is fantastic, but it messes with bring with my family and my college basketball viewing and going to the valpo games. Haven't missed one yet, but will next Saturday.

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[Smj]

I hate it when a game thread has opposing fans pissing on the game - after it is over.     You won - fine...   Give credit and say your opponent gave you a good scare.   

This was a messy game.   I thought the refs were super inconsistent.   They would let a player get mangled on a drive and then call a crap foul somewhere else.   I looked the refs up and they do not look as experienced as other D1 refs?  Also, I am changing my original view on the new rules because I thought it would promote "the finesse game" - instead just slows down play and at times awards the wrong things.   (A player just standing there and gets foul called.   Only other choice they have is to step out of way and give them the basket.)

I have say that I saw SL deconstructing or defense extremely well.   To me it looked like everytime they took advantage of a hole - we would change something and then they would find the new hole in our defense.    well done. ... 

There were a few times where our freshman looked like freshman in this one.  However, all in all I was impressed with how we stayed in this game.  We have surprised a few opponents this year - just not getting the W.

[humbleopinion]

The problem wasn't with Jordan's attempted dunk so much as the pass. Where he caught it, he wasn't able to get to the rim.  His only other choice would have been to land and the go up again.  I've never been in a position with my arms up higher that the rim to know how tough it would be to make that choice in mid-air.

As a person who has been frustrated with Dority driving the lane and then not getting the ball off of his hip, I have second thoughts about his ability to drive to the bucket.  He has really been finishing much better than last season and the beginning of this season.

Last night we learned a lesson about defensive intensity and quick hands.  I wish that we could have learned that lesson in two minutes instead of four.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I hate it when a game thread has opposing fans pissing on the game - after it is over.

Some fan bases have more than their share of douches.

Also, I am changing my original view on the new rules because I thought it would promote "the finesse game" - instead just slows down play and at times awards the wrong things.

Thank you for coming around

The problem wasn't with Jordan's attempted dunk so much as the pass.

My problem wasn't the execution--it was the play call itself.

[valpopal]

As others have noted, the excellent St. Louis defense we expected gave Valpo problems throughout the game, especially in the first half when there were 13 of the team's 17 turnovers. (Indeed, turnovers were the main difference in the game: 17 for VU and only 6 for SL.) As a result, the freshmen were most influenced. However, the team showed resilience and played (perhaps out-played) their opponent well after trailing by 12 points only 5 minutes into the game.

The comeback was fun to watch, and the close of the game displayed many exciting moments, including the three I've pictured below: Dority's drive to tie the game, Alec's block with 1.0 on the clock, and the team's bonding with the student section following the game. Unfortunately, after Dority's score the officials added time on the clock, moving it from 2.9 to 3.8, which proved to be fatal. (As I was watching, I couldn't understand why Valpo let the last in-bounds pass all the way to half-court, which gave St. Louis time to get a play.)

Nevertheless, this team is showing it can play with good programs—like St. Louis, Mercer, Illinois, Murray State, etc.—and this should prove valuable when conference play begins, especially if Carter contributes as much as we hope. As for attendance: the chairback section basically was full, as were the reserved seats, but the upper level was only half full, which is disappointing. On the other hand, the student section (which I criticized last year) has been excellent this season, and I hope their enthusiasm will carry over to the new year after Christmas break and into conference play.

Finally, the atmosphere was actually pretty good at the ARC last night. In the post-game interviews, the St. Louis players mentioned how the loud and supportive VU crowd was noticeable. The student section was enthusiastic. Special kudos to the pep band, which has been excellent this year, and a special nod to their super fan who danced Gangnam Style during one of the timeouts. Also, congrats to the promotion folks who brought in the Bucket Boys for the halftime show. I remember seasons when there was terrific half-time entertainment at every game. I think the recent absence of such halftime shows has been detrimental, and more of these could help bring in families to fill those bleacher sections.
   

[Valpofan00]

You cant tell me we cant win this league. This team fights to the very end, no matter the deficit. I think we are gonna have something special here in Valpo in the next few years.